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(Daily Mail)   Not News: Bartender refuses to serve a woman wine. News: Because she is pregnant. Fark: She is so humiliated and embarrassed she runs to the Daily Mail to complain   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 118
    More: Ironic, bartenders, Daily Mail  
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14063 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2013 at 11:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-27 12:25:54 PM  
When I was a bartender during university - we could refuse to serve anyone on moral grounds but the procedure was to call in the management who would then serve them.  CSB:I only once saw one that was abhorrent.  Not only was the obviously pregnant woman smoking on her way in, but she ordered a shot of tequila.  That poor kid doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of being a productive member of society (if they even survived to this point).
 
2013-09-27 12:26:25 PM  
Miss Hampson said they eventually left the bar out of embarrassment and bought a glass of red wine elsewhere.


So, preggo is so desperate for that wine she had to go somewhere else to get it?

Reeks of alcoholism to me.  Good luck with the bairn, it's going to need it if wine is that important to you now.

/drinks A LOT
//not good to drink while preg if it's THAT important to you
///because
 
2013-09-27 12:27:17 PM  
Is anyone else surprised to learn that it's even legal to drink if you're pregnant in the Nanny State?
 
2013-09-27 12:28:41 PM  

lockers: [lh3.ggpht.com image 525x604]

Your You're slipping fark.


Somewhere there's a version of that article with a wine bottle in her hand, but I can't seem to find that one.
 
2013-09-27 12:29:20 PM  

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.



Then go elsewhere.
 
2013-09-27 12:29:26 PM  

whatsupchuck: So, upon failing to score her fix at the one location, she immediately runs over to another place and finds someone willing to serve her.  Not too humiliated, I'd say.


Probably ran off to another one after that one cut her off too.
 
2013-09-27 12:29:48 PM  
I'd hit that.
 
2013-09-27 12:30:17 PM  

durbnpoisn: News flash:  Bars and liqour stores can refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason they see fit.


Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.

Doesn't really apply in this case, but there is a general rule to keep yourself out of trouble:

You never say WHY you are refusing service, only that you are exercising your right to do so.
 
2013-09-27 12:30:21 PM  

The_Sponge: CSB:

I worked at a winery back in 2002, and during our alcohol server training, we were told not to turn down service to a pregnant woman.


Exactly - because a pregnant woman in need of a class of wine can probably claim temporary insanity in the trial for your murder if you deny her.  It's just safer to hand it over.
 
2013-09-27 12:30:22 PM  

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.


He didn't. He told her what he wouldn't do.

I wonder what the child has to say about all of this...
 
2013-09-27 12:31:07 PM  
Ok, as a former bartender, this is something that really pisses me off.  You're (mostly) all hypocrites.
Either give the bartenders the power to refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason or -
Absolve them of any responsibility for any accidents, problems, defects or issues with the fact that you drank.
As a bartender, I'm legally liable if you go and do something stupid after drinking.
If you kill someone, their family can sue me.
If you have a stillborn baby, you can sue me. (Probably - I don't know this for a fact)
If you cause an accident, several people could sue me.
If I serve someone, I can be found liable by a prosecutor and get a ticket.
The worst part is that whoever the last bartender was is the one who is solely responsible.
IE, you're out at some bar all night drinking, but you stop by my bar on your way home.  All you have to do is not be too drunk to walk in without stumbling, and be able to say "Bud".  Once I put the beer down in front of you, I'm legally liable.
Did this bartender know where she had been all night?  If she'd had other drinks?  If she's an alcoholic who drinks at home?  He's legally responsible for her welfare after she leaves his bar.
He should have the power, authority and responsibility to refuse her alcohol if he's responsible for her.
 
2013-09-27 12:32:02 PM  

Highroller48: What I don't understand is why she decided it's worthy of the Press.  It's one guy saying he didn't want to give a pregant lady a drink.  Besides, if drinking alcohol is THAT important to you, I think it suggests a much bigger underlying problem.


pretty much sums up why it's on Fark; right up until she threw a hissy, all was ok.
 
2013-09-27 12:32:30 PM  
She isn't too picky about what she puts in her body. That's why she's preggo in the first place.
 
2013-09-27 12:32:50 PM  

Gothnet: No link to any trouble in pregnancy has been found to light drinking, a unit or two a few times a week.
The NHS advice is overly conservative.
The bartender is a hysterical asshat.


I remember that women were told to quit smoking & drinking at all during pregnancy or DOOM WILL BEFALL BABY! Also you had better eat healthy, take it easy (no workout), avoid sex, et al.

Bartender just didn't get the update.
 
2013-09-27 12:36:21 PM  

lockers: [lh3.ggpht.com image 525x604]

Your slipping fark.


What about my slipping fark?
 
2013-09-27 12:36:28 PM  

dallylamma


I'm looking forward to the story about her looking for someone to blame when her baby is born walleyed.


Then she'll just keep carping until she has someone's head on a pike. It's crappie, but there it is.
 
2013-09-27 12:37:32 PM  

dualplains: lockers: [lh3.ggpht.com image 525x604]

Your slipping fark.

What about my slipping fark?


May those of us who have never enjoyed a slippery fark cast the first stone.

/ducks away from the massive influx of stones
 
2013-09-27 12:37:58 PM  
that's a beast of a woman.  yech
 
2013-09-27 12:38:43 PM  
As far as I know, and I could be wrong, a bartender is not required to serve anyone regardless of the reason.
I do know that trying to argue with a bartender after they have refused you will 100% not lead to you getting a drink, regardless of the excuse.
 
2013-09-27 12:39:41 PM  

The Singing Bush: I've never given the stink-eye to pregnant woman with a glass of wine in her hand.  What I have given the stink-eye to, and started a verbal altercation with, was a woman doing shots at the bar while holding her 3-month-old.  This was late at night at a semi-crowded bar before the smoking bans had taken effect.  She and her drunk-ass husband then proceeded to tell me and my friends that because we were from out of town, that we didn't know how things were done 'round here and we should go back to the big city.  That's an enduring impression of Ocean City MD that I'll never forget.



My state has plenty of shiatty laws, but I am damn glad that you have to be 21+ to enter a bar....and that includes the bar sections of restaurants.
 
2013-09-27 12:41:51 PM  

Highroller48: Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.


Gay is not a protected class in many states. You can refuse to serve gay people all day long. You couldn't refuse to serve Jewish people though.
 
2013-09-27 12:44:20 PM  
I like how everybody is harping on the "one small glass a week won't harm the baby" without noticing the obvious.

The bartender has no way of knowing how much she drinks, or if she is aware of what the limits should be.  For all he knows she was ordering alcohol with every meal three times a day.

He erred on the side of caution.  He made the right call.
 
2013-09-27 12:45:17 PM  

jst3p: Highroller48: Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.

Gay is not a protected class in many states. You can refuse to serve gay people all day long. You couldn't refuse to serve Jewish people though.


Fair enough, but the point stands.  Your right is to refuse service WITHOUT giving a reason.  As soon as you give one, you're farked.
 
2013-09-27 12:45:37 PM  

Khryswhy: Did this bartender know where she had been all night? If she'd had other drinks? If she's an alcoholic who drinks at home? He's legally responsible for her welfare after she leaves his bar.
He should have the power, authority and responsibility to refuse her alcohol if he's responsible for her.


Then he should never serve anyone, ever.

Also no, in the UK he is in trouble if he serves someone obviously already intoxicated (never enforced) but not responsible for them.

inglixthemad: I remember that women were told to quit smoking & drinking at all during pregnancy or DOOM WILL BEFALL BABY! Also you had better eat healthy, take it easy (no workout), avoid sex, et al.


They've certainly been told that at various times, but it never had the backing of evidence, fact, rationality, all those good things. The very fact we don't have entire generations with FAS after women were encouraged to drink guiness when pregnant ought to tell you that.
AFAIK it's still wise to cut out smoking entirely. But that's true whether pregnant or not!
 
2013-09-27 12:47:31 PM  

Edymnion: I like how everybody is harping on the "one small glass a week won't harm the baby" without noticing the obvious.

The bartender has no way of knowing how much she drinks, or if she is aware of what the limits should be.  For all he knows she was ordering alcohol with every meal three times a day.


I think maybe we just didn't mention it BECAUSE it was so obvious.  But it's certainly another valid reason for the Bartender to feel uncomfortable serving her booze.
 
2013-09-27 12:47:43 PM  

Edymnion: I like how everybody is harping on the "one small glass a week won't harm the baby" without noticing the obvious.

The bartender has no way of knowing how much she drinks, or if she is aware of what the limits should be.  For all he knows she was ordering alcohol with every meal three times a day.

He erred on the side of caution.  He made the right call.



It's not really his decision to make though, it's overly paternalistic. His job is to make sure he doesn't serve people who are already drunk, or underage. Nothing more.
 
2013-09-27 12:50:49 PM  
If he had served her that drink and she felt even the least bit tipsy afterward, perhaps tripping and falling and hurting the baby, he'd be the one getting blamed because he served her the alcohol.  The bartender felt he was making the best decision at that moment.  Pregatroll needs to get over herself.
 
2013-09-27 12:51:26 PM  
Is she sure it wasn't because of her stupid looking hair?
 
2013-09-27 12:52:32 PM  

Highroller48: jst3p: Highroller48: Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.

Gay is not a protected class in many states. You can refuse to serve gay people all day long. You couldn't refuse to serve Jewish people though.

Fair enough, but the point stands.  Your right is to refuse service WITHOUT giving a reason.  As soon as you give one, you're farked.


If this is your point, it does not stand. Not giving a reason is good policy because it will CYA, but giving a reason does not automatically mean you are farked, at least in regards to being sued.

Now if your reason isn't a good one, you might face consequences but your point was originally made in regards to being sued. I wont be sued if I refuse service to anyone over 5'6" tall, but I will probably get fired.
 
2013-09-27 12:53:13 PM  

Doom On You: If he had served her that drink and she felt even the least bit tipsy afterward, perhaps tripping and falling and hurting the baby, he'd be the one getting blamed because he served her the alcohol.  The bartender felt he was making the best decision at that moment.  Pregatroll needs to get over herself.


But that's nothing to do with why he didn't serve her. You could use that logic about any human. Perhaps it's safest for the poor, precious bartender to only serve iced water to everyone.
 
2013-09-27 12:54:19 PM  

Khryswhy: Ok, as a former bartender, this is something that really pisses me off.  You're (mostly) all hypocrites.
Either give the bartenders the power to refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason or -
Absolve them of any responsibility for any accidents, problems, defects or issues with the fact that you drank.
As a bartender, I'm legally liable if you go and do something stupid after drinking.
If you kill someone, their family can sue me.
If you have a stillborn baby, you can sue me. (Probably - I don't know this for a fact)
If you cause an accident, several people could sue me.
If I serve someone, I can be found liable by a prosecutor and get a ticket.
The worst part is that whoever the last bartender was is the one who is solely responsible.
IE, you're out at some bar all night drinking, but you stop by my bar on your way home.  All you have to do is not be too drunk to walk in without stumbling, and be able to say "Bud".  Once I put the beer down in front of you, I'm legally liable.
Did this bartender know where she had been all night?  If she'd had other drinks?  If she's an alcoholic who drinks at home?  He's legally responsible for her welfare after she leaves his bar.
He should have the power, authority and responsibility to refuse her alcohol if he's responsible for her.


I have never worked in the service industry and I completely agree with everything you said.  Legal liability has ruined so much.
 
2013-09-27 12:54:52 PM  

Doom On You: If he had served her that drink and she felt even the least bit tipsy afterward, perhaps tripping and falling and hurting the baby, he'd be the one getting blamed because he served her the alcohol.  The bartender felt he was making the best decision at that moment.  Pregatroll needs to get over herself.


Disagree, unless you can cite a bartender being sued because someone who was not obviously inebriated was served and then hurt themselves. If she isn't intoxicated serve her. Don't get me wrong, her running to the media makes her a douchy troll but bartender was overly cautious in my opinion.
 
2013-09-27 01:01:53 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: meanmutton: Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.

"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

But if they're pregnant and don't know it, when should they avoid alcohol?


The only way to be really sure would be to only serve women of childbearing age if they're menstruating.

If/as States adopt "personhood" amendments, would the bartender be liable for the fetal harm, and/or serving to the underage?
 
2013-09-27 01:03:35 PM  

jst3p: I wont be sued if I refuse service to anyone over 5'6" tall, but I will probably get fired.


In a lot of places you can be sued if your policy has a disproportional impact on a protected class. So you might be sued by the Dutch.
 
2013-09-27 01:04:07 PM  

cgraves67: reillan: Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.

That's my take as well. You can't expect the bartender to be up to date on the latest Fetal Alcohol Syndrome research. He's being cautious and there's nothing wrong with that.


He also cannot know how much she's had to drink in the past week.
 
2013-09-27 01:04:40 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: jst3p: I wont be sued if I refuse service to anyone over 5'6" tall, but I will probably get fired.

In a lot of places you can be sued if your policy has a disproportional impact on a protected class. So you might be sued by the Dutch.


Fair point, made in humorous way. Well done.
 
2013-09-27 01:05:44 PM  
I'm pleasantly surprised by how many people in this thread are up on the latest alcohol-during-pregnancy research.
 
2013-09-27 01:27:14 PM  
As a woman who's six months pregnant, I think I'd enjoy this thread even more with a dry martini in hand.

/haven't actually been particularly interested in alcohol since the vomiting started
//take sips here and there and don't want more
///this better change when the kid's on the outside
 
2013-09-27 01:35:16 PM  

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.


Hmmm ... carbon fibre rod, 70 pound test. Should do the trick.
 
2013-09-27 01:35:18 PM  

Highroller48: Frankly, I don't think either person is really in the worng here.  The Bartender acted in what he felt was good faith given the circumstances.  The woman seems to be confident that a small amount of alcohol consumption isn't a significant threat to her pregnancy.  All this is is a difference of opinion.

Personally, having married a high-school teacher at a school that specializes in kids with F.A.S. as well as other conditions (autism, behavioural disorders, drug dependencies, etc.) I can totally understand the Bartender's hesitation.  Foetal Alcohol Syndrome has a huge (and lifelong) impact on people.  There's certainly some debate on whether complete abstention from alcohol is always necessary, but the majority of medical advice still seems to land on the side of caution.

What I don't understand is why she decided it's worthy of the Press.  It's one guy saying he didn't want to give a pregant lady a drink.  Besides, if drinking alcohol is THAT important to you, I think it suggests a much bigger underlying problem.


Exactly.  It's not like someone denied her food or medicine while slapping her in the face.  He denied her a single glass of wine because he was worried about the health of her child. She could have just gone to another bar, or to the store.

Can't wait to see what type of mother she'll be.
 
2013-09-27 01:40:41 PM  
A grocery store clerk refused to sell me a bottle of wine when I was pregnant once. That's similar but WAY more extreme. I can see a bartender not wanting to watch her consume it, but the wine wasn't even for me when I bought it. It was for the Mister. I was so dumbfounded that I left all my groceries there and walked out.
 
2013-09-27 01:49:17 PM  

Snakeophelia: Exactly.  It's not like someone denied her food or medicine while slapping her in the face.  He denied her a single glass of wine because he was worried about the health of her child. She could have just gone to another bar, or to the store.


She did, then she sold her story to the Daily Fail for money.

Snakeophelia: Can't wait to see what type of mother she'll be.


Probably an economically astute one, given the Deutsche Bank job and cashing on what is a trivial inconvenience. Oh wait, you wanted to judge her an attention-whoring slut? Sorry.
 
2013-09-27 01:49:55 PM  
Technically he can't serve alcohol to minors anyway.
 
2013-09-27 01:50:52 PM  
When pregnant my dr. told me a glass of red wine was good for me and the baby, so I'm getting a kick out of some of these responses, and the bartender's failure to tend bar.
 
2013-09-27 01:54:19 PM  
She might want to explore treatment for alcoholism if she can't even stop for a few months.
 
2013-09-27 01:55:36 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: meanmutton: Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.

"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

But if they're pregnant and don't know it, when should they avoid alcohol?


All the time!

/Got plastered at a wedding when I was 4 weeks pregnant, before I knew.
//Had an x-ray the same week.
///The kid seems fine. So far.
 
2013-09-27 01:56:47 PM  

Joe1549: She might want to explore treatment for alcoholism if she can't even stop for a few months.


Why? There's no reason to stop, and the odd drink has no risk.

You should probably check that bacon addiction if you can't stop arbitrarily for a couple of years at my demand. What's that? You like bacon? Irrelevant, you're clearly an addict if you don't stop right now because I say so.
 
2013-09-27 02:00:37 PM  

cgraves67: reillan: Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.

That's my take as well. You can't expect the bartender to be up to date on the latest Fetal Alcohol Syndrome research. He's being cautious and there's nothing wrong with that.


How does he even know she is pregnant?  For all he knows, she's just fat.  It's none of his business.
 
2013-09-27 02:58:18 PM  

Gothnet: Joe1549: She might want to explore treatment for alcoholism if she can't even stop for a few months.

Why? There's no reason to stop, and the odd drink has no risk.

You should probably check that bacon addiction if you can't stop arbitrarily for a couple of years at my demand. What's that? You like bacon? Irrelevant, you're clearly an addict if you don't stop right now because I say so.


I'm not saying she has to avoid alcohol the rest of her life. However, she has this temporary condition called "pregnancy" and it might be a good idea to avoid alcohol. It isn't that hard to avoid it for a few months.

I understand your bacon comparison. However, I'm not caring for an unborn fetus. The things I eat don't effect anyone else. More to your point though, if a doctor said that I was diabetic and needed to avoid sugars, you bet I would!
 
2013-09-27 03:00:12 PM  

meanmutton: Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.

"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.


You do realize prior to pasteurization and available clean water EVERYONE including children drank MAINLY wine and beer right? If this were even slightly true half true 95% would have FAS.

Snakeophelia: EHe denied her a single glass of wine because he was worried about the health of her child. She could have just gone to another bar, or to the store.

Can't wait to see what type of mother she'll be.


Annnnnd... how would you feel if a waiter refused to serve an overweight person? Really, its none of his business. It's not like she was getting sloppy here.
 
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