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(Daily Mail)   Not News: Bartender refuses to serve a woman wine. News: Because she is pregnant. Fark: She is so humiliated and embarrassed she runs to the Daily Mail to complain   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 118
    More: Ironic, bartenders, Daily Mail  
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13982 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2013 at 11:45 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



118 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-27 11:47:25 AM
Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.
 
2013-09-27 11:48:14 AM
No link to any trouble in pregnancy has been found to light drinking, a unit or two a few times a week.
The NHS advice is overly conservative.
The bartender is a hysterical asshat.
 
2013-09-27 11:50:00 AM
CSB:

I worked at a winery back in 2002, and during our alcohol server training, we were told not to turn down service to a pregnant woman.
 
2013-09-27 11:50:20 AM
I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.
 
2013-09-27 11:50:47 AM
My mom drank a lot when she was carrying me.  I've had a wonderful family, happy life and a rewarding career I've held for the last potato years!
 
2013-09-27 11:52:41 AM

reillan: Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.


That's my take as well. You can't expect the bartender to be up to date on the latest Fetal Alcohol Syndrome research. He's being cautious and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
2013-09-27 11:52:51 AM

SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.


Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.
 
2013-09-27 11:53:17 AM
So, upon failing to score her fix at the one location, she immediately runs over to another place and finds someone willing to serve her.  Not too humiliated, I'd say.
 
2013-09-27 11:53:34 AM
Seeing as he cares so deeply for others' healthy living choices, I can see why he went into bartending.
 
2013-09-27 11:53:43 AM
None of this is news.  This happens several times a year where it is reported by some rag.  That an convenience store clerks refusing to sell cigarettes.

Happens all the time.
 
2013-09-27 11:54:00 AM
It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.
 
2013-09-27 11:54:07 AM
I work at a place that serves beer. I've had guys order a drink and had their pregnant wives take a sip. I've served pregnant women too. So long as you aren't visibly intoxicated while ordering, I don't really give a fark.

/not your doctor
//don't know your drinking history
 
2013-09-27 11:54:17 AM
Honestly,

Why take the risk? Your child is not able to say no... at the very least it cant ask for the good stuff.
 
2013-09-27 11:54:47 AM
A business reserves the right to not serve anyone for any reason. As bars have been sued for the actions of drunk people before it would cause me to think twice before serving her.
 
2013-09-27 11:55:27 AM

ToastTheRabbit: Honestly,

Why take the risk? Your child is not able to say no... at the very least it cant ask for the good stuff.


There's no risk in having a small glass every few days.
 
2013-09-27 11:57:05 AM

Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.


"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.
 
2013-09-27 11:57:26 AM
Pregnant women can drink about a half glass a day with absolutely no issues. In fact, it may have benefits. My wife agonized over it because she's a wine person but after reading all the research she was comfortable, as was I.

Nobody ever had an issue serving her and she never had more than a half glass.
 
2013-09-27 11:57:43 AM
Oh, and all the images of her in TFA make it look like she's dealing with a serious case of gas. It's the combination of the "who farted" look on her face and her hands on her stomach.
 
2013-09-27 11:57:55 AM

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.


He's not stopping her from drinking, he's just stopping her in his bar,
 
2013-09-27 11:59:08 AM

SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.


If light drinking was risky, Italians and the French bloodlines would have died out long ago. Way to be as bad as the bartender for judging the woman.
 
2013-09-27 11:59:33 AM

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.



By that logic, bartenders should not be able to cut me off no matter how sauced I am.

And you're right....you can't tell her what to do, but I don't like the idea of being forced to serve her either.

And it's not just her body we're talking about.

Meh.
 
2013-09-27 12:00:05 PM
Mom smoke a pack or so a day when pregnant with me. Birthweight was low (6#8oz) but I have a 145 IQ, and just about the smallest head of any adult female, so I get to blow a couple of stereotypes there.

Bigger concern is the damn cortisol levels. Set everyone up for PTSD (which I'm starting to formulate a theory about why everyone in Middle East can't get over themselves: a tendency to PTSD due to epigenetics which has caused generational infighting, then becomes a vicious cycle). Actually, I find epigenetics a fascinating field, since I think it's also what partially explains my bisexuality.

As far as alcohol goes, I want to have a habit of having a glass of red wine at dinner, and I don't plan on stopping that just because I get pregnant.
 
2013-09-27 12:00:20 PM

Gothnet: ToastTheRabbit: Honestly,

Why take the risk? Your child is not able to say no... at the very least it cant ask for the good stuff.

There's no risk in having a small glass every few days.


Yeah? What if she drinks Yellow Tail? Nobody is policing the quality of booze she is subjecting her baby to.
 
2013-09-27 12:00:41 PM
I'd just give her the whole bottle. Chicks with FAS are hot.
 
2013-09-27 12:00:58 PM

meanmutton: "Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.


As mentioned, advisory bodies tend to give ultra-conservative advice in this area. It's not backed up by good evidence and never has been. We would have had whole generations born with FAS if it was a risk.
 
2013-09-27 12:01:38 PM
The fact that the bartender was foolish doesn't make this newsworthy
 
2013-09-27 12:01:52 PM
so humiliated that she had to get her fix some place else...home and alone?


better way to handle it: oh i was just seeing what you would say just give me a water
 
2013-09-27 12:02:00 PM

ToastTheRabbit: Yeah? What if she drinks Yellow Tail? Nobody is policing the quality of booze she is subjecting her baby to.


That's a crime whether pregnant or not!
 
2013-09-27 12:02:39 PM

Gig103: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

If light drinking was risky, Italians and the French bloodlines would have died out long ago. Way to be as bad as the bartender for judging the woman.


When I was 7.5 months pregnant and traveling in France and Italy, waiters would frequently attempt to pour me a *second* glass of wine. That's how blase they were there to the sight of preggos drinking.
 
2013-09-27 12:03:27 PM

ToastTheRabbit: Yeah? What if she drinks Yellow Tail? Nobody is policing the quality of booze she is subjecting her baby to.



Carlo Rossi Paisano = child abuse
 
2013-09-27 12:04:16 PM
When my wife was pregnant with our first kid, we went out to dinner with her mom.  She really wanted a glass of wine but was very self-consious about drinking while visibly pregnant, even though she knew it was okay.  I ordered a botttle of wine and the server brought three glasses, turned to my wife, and said something along the lines of, "I hope you're going to enjoy some of this wonderful bottle."  It totally put her at ease and was an overall great gesture.  He got a little extra tip for that.

/csb
 
2013-09-27 12:04:44 PM
Unites? Did the NHS acquire the Ministry of Housinge?
 
2013-09-27 12:06:02 PM
All I could think of was this skit.
http://youtu.be/phVCN6TxdCg

That said, if the new research says a drink a week is ok, it probably is. However, the bartender has no way of knowing if it's her first drink of the week or her 30th.

I'm all for giving the preggo whatever she wants, but you have to figure people are going to stinkeye you if you are pregnant and drinking in public.

People pitched a fit years ago when Gwyneth Paltrow was photographed drinking a Guinness while pregnant.

The do's and don't's while pregnant is a huge, ever changing list and its hard for even pregnant women to keep up with it.
 
2013-09-27 12:09:09 PM

ocd002: I'm all for giving the preggo whatever she wants, but you have to figure people are going to stinkeye you if you are pregnant and drinking in public.


Generally not so much in the UK AFAICT, publicly judging the behaviour of the pregnant is an American hobby.
 
2013-09-27 12:10:07 PM
She's pregnant, she waddled, she didn't run.
 
2013-09-27 12:10:36 PM

reillan: Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.


I totally agree with him. Serving alcohol to a pregnant woman is the equivalent to serving alcohol to a minor. That is the bar's responsibility, not her's. Go Barkeep. Kudos.
 
2013-09-27 12:11:25 PM

ocd002: All I could think of was this skit.
http://youtu.be/phVCN6TxdCg

That said, if the new research says a drink a week is ok, it probably is. However, the bartender has no way of knowing if it's her first drink of the week or her 30th.

I'm all for giving the preggo whatever she wants, but you have to figure people are going to stinkeye you if you are pregnant and drinking in public.


And if you're the bartender serving the wine to the pregnant woman, well, you'll probably get some of that stinkeye, too. Probably not ideal for business...
 
2013-09-27 12:13:34 PM
The woman is an asshat.

/not because she wanted a drink
//but because she ran to the Daily Fail.
 
2013-09-27 12:14:34 PM

meanmutton: Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive


That'll drop the birthrate.

Interesting read
 
2013-09-27 12:16:38 PM
lh3.ggpht.com

Your slipping fark.
 
2013-09-27 12:17:32 PM
I'm looking forward to the story about her looking for someone to blame when her baby is born walleyed.
 
2013-09-27 12:18:05 PM
News flash:  Bars and liqour stores can refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason they see fit.  Consider the position they are in, in this day and age.  If they sell to someone who is (for instance) already drunk, and that person kills someone in a car wreck on the way home, the bar can be sued.

I remember when I was 22 or so, I walked into the store to buy a 12-pack and the guy at the register refused to serve me.  I was like, "WTF?!".  He essentially said, "You look drunk already."  In reality, I was not drunk.  I had just woken up from a nap.  (Musta been a really good nap)

Whatever...  The point is, even though it was kinda embarassing, I had nothing else to say on the matter.  I walked out and went to a different store.
 
2013-09-27 12:19:17 PM

syberpud: My mom drank a lot when she was carrying me.  I've had a wonderful family, happy life and a rewarding career I've held for the last potato years!


A few years ago my Mom admitted to smoking while I was potato, and I potato just potato.

/potato
 
2013-09-27 12:21:10 PM

The_Sponge: CSB:

I worked at a winery back in 2002, and during our alcohol server training, we were told not to turn down service to a pregnant woman.


It's against the ADA.

/probably covered up thread.
//tldr
 
2013-09-27 12:21:27 PM
"...the Deutsche Bank worker, who is overdue with her first baby, was left dumbfounded after a barman at Pi bar, in Liverpool, told her: 'Sorry, I can't serve you.'"

not sure if name of bank, or describing pregnant woman who wanted a drink...
 
2013-09-27 12:22:44 PM

meanmutton: Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.

"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.


But if they're pregnant and don't know it, when should they avoid alcohol?
 
2013-09-27 12:23:08 PM
Excellent use of the ironic tag subby.

/golf clap
//I need a drink.
 
2013-09-27 12:24:28 PM
I've never given the stink-eye to pregnant woman with a glass of wine in her hand.  What I have given the stink-eye to, and started a verbal altercation with, was a woman doing shots at the bar while holding her 3-month-old.  This was late at night at a semi-crowded bar before the smoking bans had taken effect.  She and her drunk-ass husband then proceeded to tell me and my friends that because we were from out of town, that we didn't know how things were done 'round here and we should go back to the big city.  That's an enduring impression of Ocean City MD that I'll never forget.
 
2013-09-27 12:24:52 PM
Frankly, I don't think either person is really in the worng here.  The Bartender acted in what he felt was good faith given the circumstances.  The woman seems to be confident that a small amount of alcohol consumption isn't a significant threat to her pregnancy.  All this is is a difference of opinion.

Personally, having married a high-school teacher at a school that specializes in kids with F.A.S. as well as other conditions (autism, behavioural disorders, drug dependencies, etc.) I can totally understand the Bartender's hesitation.  Foetal Alcohol Syndrome has a huge (and lifelong) impact on people.  There's certainly some debate on whether complete abstention from alcohol is always necessary, but the majority of medical advice still seems to land on the side of caution.

What I don't understand is why she decided it's worthy of the Press.  It's one guy saying he didn't want to give a pregant lady a drink.  Besides, if drinking alcohol is THAT important to you, I think it suggests a much bigger underlying problem.
 
2013-09-27 12:25:35 PM

meanmutton: "Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.


The damage is only caused by binge drinking or being a pretty constant drunk. "Light" alcohol consumption, even in the earliest periods of pregnancy, do not cause harm to the fetus. In addition, medical groups like the ACOG will often have official statements that are overly cautious based more on politics than on actual science.

trotsky: Pregnant women can drink about a half glass a day with absolutely no issues. In fact, it may have benefits. My wife agonized over it because she's a wine person but after reading all the research she was comfortable, as was I.

Nobody ever had an issue serving her and she never had more than a half glass.


And really it can be more that that, but it all depends on the woman's size and metabolism too. The studies tend to ask about "servings per week" but basically 1-2 servings at a time will be fine.
 
2013-09-27 12:25:54 PM
When I was a bartender during university - we could refuse to serve anyone on moral grounds but the procedure was to call in the management who would then serve them.  CSB:I only once saw one that was abhorrent.  Not only was the obviously pregnant woman smoking on her way in, but she ordered a shot of tequila.  That poor kid doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of being a productive member of society (if they even survived to this point).
 
2013-09-27 12:26:25 PM
Miss Hampson said they eventually left the bar out of embarrassment and bought a glass of red wine elsewhere.


So, preggo is so desperate for that wine she had to go somewhere else to get it?

Reeks of alcoholism to me.  Good luck with the bairn, it's going to need it if wine is that important to you now.

/drinks A LOT
//not good to drink while preg if it's THAT important to you
///because
 
2013-09-27 12:27:17 PM
Is anyone else surprised to learn that it's even legal to drink if you're pregnant in the Nanny State?
 
2013-09-27 12:28:41 PM

lockers: [lh3.ggpht.com image 525x604]

Your You're slipping fark.


Somewhere there's a version of that article with a wine bottle in her hand, but I can't seem to find that one.
 
2013-09-27 12:29:20 PM

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.



Then go elsewhere.
 
2013-09-27 12:29:26 PM

whatsupchuck: So, upon failing to score her fix at the one location, she immediately runs over to another place and finds someone willing to serve her.  Not too humiliated, I'd say.


Probably ran off to another one after that one cut her off too.
 
2013-09-27 12:29:48 PM
I'd hit that.
 
2013-09-27 12:30:17 PM

durbnpoisn: News flash:  Bars and liqour stores can refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason they see fit.


Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.

Doesn't really apply in this case, but there is a general rule to keep yourself out of trouble:

You never say WHY you are refusing service, only that you are exercising your right to do so.
 
2013-09-27 12:30:21 PM

The_Sponge: CSB:

I worked at a winery back in 2002, and during our alcohol server training, we were told not to turn down service to a pregnant woman.


Exactly - because a pregnant woman in need of a class of wine can probably claim temporary insanity in the trial for your murder if you deny her.  It's just safer to hand it over.
 
2013-09-27 12:30:22 PM

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.


He didn't. He told her what he wouldn't do.

I wonder what the child has to say about all of this...
 
2013-09-27 12:31:07 PM
Ok, as a former bartender, this is something that really pisses me off.  You're (mostly) all hypocrites.
Either give the bartenders the power to refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason or -
Absolve them of any responsibility for any accidents, problems, defects or issues with the fact that you drank.
As a bartender, I'm legally liable if you go and do something stupid after drinking.
If you kill someone, their family can sue me.
If you have a stillborn baby, you can sue me. (Probably - I don't know this for a fact)
If you cause an accident, several people could sue me.
If I serve someone, I can be found liable by a prosecutor and get a ticket.
The worst part is that whoever the last bartender was is the one who is solely responsible.
IE, you're out at some bar all night drinking, but you stop by my bar on your way home.  All you have to do is not be too drunk to walk in without stumbling, and be able to say "Bud".  Once I put the beer down in front of you, I'm legally liable.
Did this bartender know where she had been all night?  If she'd had other drinks?  If she's an alcoholic who drinks at home?  He's legally responsible for her welfare after she leaves his bar.
He should have the power, authority and responsibility to refuse her alcohol if he's responsible for her.
 
2013-09-27 12:32:02 PM

Highroller48: What I don't understand is why she decided it's worthy of the Press.  It's one guy saying he didn't want to give a pregant lady a drink.  Besides, if drinking alcohol is THAT important to you, I think it suggests a much bigger underlying problem.


pretty much sums up why it's on Fark; right up until she threw a hissy, all was ok.
 
2013-09-27 12:32:30 PM
She isn't too picky about what she puts in her body. That's why she's preggo in the first place.
 
2013-09-27 12:32:50 PM

Gothnet: No link to any trouble in pregnancy has been found to light drinking, a unit or two a few times a week.
The NHS advice is overly conservative.
The bartender is a hysterical asshat.


I remember that women were told to quit smoking & drinking at all during pregnancy or DOOM WILL BEFALL BABY! Also you had better eat healthy, take it easy (no workout), avoid sex, et al.

Bartender just didn't get the update.
 
2013-09-27 12:36:21 PM

lockers: [lh3.ggpht.com image 525x604]

Your slipping fark.


What about my slipping fark?
 
2013-09-27 12:36:28 PM

dallylamma


I'm looking forward to the story about her looking for someone to blame when her baby is born walleyed.


Then she'll just keep carping until she has someone's head on a pike. It's crappie, but there it is.
 
2013-09-27 12:37:32 PM

dualplains: lockers: [lh3.ggpht.com image 525x604]

Your slipping fark.

What about my slipping fark?


May those of us who have never enjoyed a slippery fark cast the first stone.

/ducks away from the massive influx of stones
 
2013-09-27 12:37:58 PM
that's a beast of a woman.  yech
 
2013-09-27 12:38:43 PM
As far as I know, and I could be wrong, a bartender is not required to serve anyone regardless of the reason.
I do know that trying to argue with a bartender after they have refused you will 100% not lead to you getting a drink, regardless of the excuse.
 
2013-09-27 12:39:41 PM

The Singing Bush: I've never given the stink-eye to pregnant woman with a glass of wine in her hand.  What I have given the stink-eye to, and started a verbal altercation with, was a woman doing shots at the bar while holding her 3-month-old.  This was late at night at a semi-crowded bar before the smoking bans had taken effect.  She and her drunk-ass husband then proceeded to tell me and my friends that because we were from out of town, that we didn't know how things were done 'round here and we should go back to the big city.  That's an enduring impression of Ocean City MD that I'll never forget.



My state has plenty of shiatty laws, but I am damn glad that you have to be 21+ to enter a bar....and that includes the bar sections of restaurants.
 
2013-09-27 12:41:51 PM

Highroller48: Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.


Gay is not a protected class in many states. You can refuse to serve gay people all day long. You couldn't refuse to serve Jewish people though.
 
2013-09-27 12:44:20 PM
I like how everybody is harping on the "one small glass a week won't harm the baby" without noticing the obvious.

The bartender has no way of knowing how much she drinks, or if she is aware of what the limits should be.  For all he knows she was ordering alcohol with every meal three times a day.

He erred on the side of caution.  He made the right call.
 
2013-09-27 12:45:17 PM

jst3p: Highroller48: Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.

Gay is not a protected class in many states. You can refuse to serve gay people all day long. You couldn't refuse to serve Jewish people though.


Fair enough, but the point stands.  Your right is to refuse service WITHOUT giving a reason.  As soon as you give one, you're farked.
 
2013-09-27 12:45:37 PM

Khryswhy: Did this bartender know where she had been all night? If she'd had other drinks? If she's an alcoholic who drinks at home? He's legally responsible for her welfare after she leaves his bar.
He should have the power, authority and responsibility to refuse her alcohol if he's responsible for her.


Then he should never serve anyone, ever.

Also no, in the UK he is in trouble if he serves someone obviously already intoxicated (never enforced) but not responsible for them.

inglixthemad: I remember that women were told to quit smoking & drinking at all during pregnancy or DOOM WILL BEFALL BABY! Also you had better eat healthy, take it easy (no workout), avoid sex, et al.


They've certainly been told that at various times, but it never had the backing of evidence, fact, rationality, all those good things. The very fact we don't have entire generations with FAS after women were encouraged to drink guiness when pregnant ought to tell you that.
AFAIK it's still wise to cut out smoking entirely. But that's true whether pregnant or not!
 
2013-09-27 12:47:31 PM

Edymnion: I like how everybody is harping on the "one small glass a week won't harm the baby" without noticing the obvious.

The bartender has no way of knowing how much she drinks, or if she is aware of what the limits should be.  For all he knows she was ordering alcohol with every meal three times a day.


I think maybe we just didn't mention it BECAUSE it was so obvious.  But it's certainly another valid reason for the Bartender to feel uncomfortable serving her booze.
 
2013-09-27 12:47:43 PM

Edymnion: I like how everybody is harping on the "one small glass a week won't harm the baby" without noticing the obvious.

The bartender has no way of knowing how much she drinks, or if she is aware of what the limits should be.  For all he knows she was ordering alcohol with every meal three times a day.

He erred on the side of caution.  He made the right call.



It's not really his decision to make though, it's overly paternalistic. His job is to make sure he doesn't serve people who are already drunk, or underage. Nothing more.
 
2013-09-27 12:50:49 PM
If he had served her that drink and she felt even the least bit tipsy afterward, perhaps tripping and falling and hurting the baby, he'd be the one getting blamed because he served her the alcohol.  The bartender felt he was making the best decision at that moment.  Pregatroll needs to get over herself.
 
2013-09-27 12:51:26 PM
Is she sure it wasn't because of her stupid looking hair?
 
2013-09-27 12:52:32 PM

Highroller48: jst3p: Highroller48: Close, but no cigar.  They can refuse service to anyone WITHOUT giving a reason.  That's what protects a business owner. They can't cite an unlawful reason.  As soon as they do, they open themselves up to trouble.  For exmaple, if I don't want to serve gay people in my restaurant, I can't SAY that I'm refusing to serve them "because they're gay".  If I do so, I'm liable for discrimination.

Gay is not a protected class in many states. You can refuse to serve gay people all day long. You couldn't refuse to serve Jewish people though.

Fair enough, but the point stands.  Your right is to refuse service WITHOUT giving a reason.  As soon as you give one, you're farked.


If this is your point, it does not stand. Not giving a reason is good policy because it will CYA, but giving a reason does not automatically mean you are farked, at least in regards to being sued.

Now if your reason isn't a good one, you might face consequences but your point was originally made in regards to being sued. I wont be sued if I refuse service to anyone over 5'6" tall, but I will probably get fired.
 
2013-09-27 12:53:13 PM

Doom On You: If he had served her that drink and she felt even the least bit tipsy afterward, perhaps tripping and falling and hurting the baby, he'd be the one getting blamed because he served her the alcohol.  The bartender felt he was making the best decision at that moment.  Pregatroll needs to get over herself.


But that's nothing to do with why he didn't serve her. You could use that logic about any human. Perhaps it's safest for the poor, precious bartender to only serve iced water to everyone.
 
2013-09-27 12:54:19 PM

Khryswhy: Ok, as a former bartender, this is something that really pisses me off.  You're (mostly) all hypocrites.
Either give the bartenders the power to refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason or -
Absolve them of any responsibility for any accidents, problems, defects or issues with the fact that you drank.
As a bartender, I'm legally liable if you go and do something stupid after drinking.
If you kill someone, their family can sue me.
If you have a stillborn baby, you can sue me. (Probably - I don't know this for a fact)
If you cause an accident, several people could sue me.
If I serve someone, I can be found liable by a prosecutor and get a ticket.
The worst part is that whoever the last bartender was is the one who is solely responsible.
IE, you're out at some bar all night drinking, but you stop by my bar on your way home.  All you have to do is not be too drunk to walk in without stumbling, and be able to say "Bud".  Once I put the beer down in front of you, I'm legally liable.
Did this bartender know where she had been all night?  If she'd had other drinks?  If she's an alcoholic who drinks at home?  He's legally responsible for her welfare after she leaves his bar.
He should have the power, authority and responsibility to refuse her alcohol if he's responsible for her.


I have never worked in the service industry and I completely agree with everything you said.  Legal liability has ruined so much.
 
2013-09-27 12:54:52 PM

Doom On You: If he had served her that drink and she felt even the least bit tipsy afterward, perhaps tripping and falling and hurting the baby, he'd be the one getting blamed because he served her the alcohol.  The bartender felt he was making the best decision at that moment.  Pregatroll needs to get over herself.


Disagree, unless you can cite a bartender being sued because someone who was not obviously inebriated was served and then hurt themselves. If she isn't intoxicated serve her. Don't get me wrong, her running to the media makes her a douchy troll but bartender was overly cautious in my opinion.
 
2013-09-27 01:01:53 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: meanmutton: Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.

"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

But if they're pregnant and don't know it, when should they avoid alcohol?


The only way to be really sure would be to only serve women of childbearing age if they're menstruating.

If/as States adopt "personhood" amendments, would the bartender be liable for the fetal harm, and/or serving to the underage?
 
2013-09-27 01:03:35 PM

jst3p: I wont be sued if I refuse service to anyone over 5'6" tall, but I will probably get fired.


In a lot of places you can be sued if your policy has a disproportional impact on a protected class. So you might be sued by the Dutch.
 
2013-09-27 01:04:07 PM

cgraves67: reillan: Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.

That's my take as well. You can't expect the bartender to be up to date on the latest Fetal Alcohol Syndrome research. He's being cautious and there's nothing wrong with that.


He also cannot know how much she's had to drink in the past week.
 
2013-09-27 01:04:40 PM

DrewCurtisJr: jst3p: I wont be sued if I refuse service to anyone over 5'6" tall, but I will probably get fired.

In a lot of places you can be sued if your policy has a disproportional impact on a protected class. So you might be sued by the Dutch.


Fair point, made in humorous way. Well done.
 
2013-09-27 01:05:44 PM
I'm pleasantly surprised by how many people in this thread are up on the latest alcohol-during-pregnancy research.
 
2013-09-27 01:27:14 PM
As a woman who's six months pregnant, I think I'd enjoy this thread even more with a dry martini in hand.

/haven't actually been particularly interested in alcohol since the vomiting started
//take sips here and there and don't want more
///this better change when the kid's on the outside
 
2013-09-27 01:35:16 PM

netcentric: It's her body...you can't tell her what to do.


Hmmm ... carbon fibre rod, 70 pound test. Should do the trick.
 
2013-09-27 01:35:18 PM

Highroller48: Frankly, I don't think either person is really in the worng here.  The Bartender acted in what he felt was good faith given the circumstances.  The woman seems to be confident that a small amount of alcohol consumption isn't a significant threat to her pregnancy.  All this is is a difference of opinion.

Personally, having married a high-school teacher at a school that specializes in kids with F.A.S. as well as other conditions (autism, behavioural disorders, drug dependencies, etc.) I can totally understand the Bartender's hesitation.  Foetal Alcohol Syndrome has a huge (and lifelong) impact on people.  There's certainly some debate on whether complete abstention from alcohol is always necessary, but the majority of medical advice still seems to land on the side of caution.

What I don't understand is why she decided it's worthy of the Press.  It's one guy saying he didn't want to give a pregant lady a drink.  Besides, if drinking alcohol is THAT important to you, I think it suggests a much bigger underlying problem.


Exactly.  It's not like someone denied her food or medicine while slapping her in the face.  He denied her a single glass of wine because he was worried about the health of her child. She could have just gone to another bar, or to the store.

Can't wait to see what type of mother she'll be.
 
2013-09-27 01:40:41 PM
A grocery store clerk refused to sell me a bottle of wine when I was pregnant once. That's similar but WAY more extreme. I can see a bartender not wanting to watch her consume it, but the wine wasn't even for me when I bought it. It was for the Mister. I was so dumbfounded that I left all my groceries there and walked out.
 
2013-09-27 01:49:17 PM

Snakeophelia: Exactly.  It's not like someone denied her food or medicine while slapping her in the face.  He denied her a single glass of wine because he was worried about the health of her child. She could have just gone to another bar, or to the store.


She did, then she sold her story to the Daily Fail for money.

Snakeophelia: Can't wait to see what type of mother she'll be.


Probably an economically astute one, given the Deutsche Bank job and cashing on what is a trivial inconvenience. Oh wait, you wanted to judge her an attention-whoring slut? Sorry.
 
2013-09-27 01:49:55 PM
Technically he can't serve alcohol to minors anyway.
 
2013-09-27 01:50:52 PM
When pregnant my dr. told me a glass of red wine was good for me and the baby, so I'm getting a kick out of some of these responses, and the bartender's failure to tend bar.
 
2013-09-27 01:54:19 PM
She might want to explore treatment for alcoholism if she can't even stop for a few months.
 
2013-09-27 01:55:36 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: meanmutton: Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.

"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

But if they're pregnant and don't know it, when should they avoid alcohol?


All the time!

/Got plastered at a wedding when I was 4 weeks pregnant, before I knew.
//Had an x-ray the same week.
///The kid seems fine. So far.
 
2013-09-27 01:56:47 PM

Joe1549: She might want to explore treatment for alcoholism if she can't even stop for a few months.


Why? There's no reason to stop, and the odd drink has no risk.

You should probably check that bacon addiction if you can't stop arbitrarily for a couple of years at my demand. What's that? You like bacon? Irrelevant, you're clearly an addict if you don't stop right now because I say so.
 
2013-09-27 02:00:37 PM

cgraves67: reillan: Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.

That's my take as well. You can't expect the bartender to be up to date on the latest Fetal Alcohol Syndrome research. He's being cautious and there's nothing wrong with that.


How does he even know she is pregnant?  For all he knows, she's just fat.  It's none of his business.
 
2013-09-27 02:58:18 PM

Gothnet: Joe1549: She might want to explore treatment for alcoholism if she can't even stop for a few months.

Why? There's no reason to stop, and the odd drink has no risk.

You should probably check that bacon addiction if you can't stop arbitrarily for a couple of years at my demand. What's that? You like bacon? Irrelevant, you're clearly an addict if you don't stop right now because I say so.


I'm not saying she has to avoid alcohol the rest of her life. However, she has this temporary condition called "pregnancy" and it might be a good idea to avoid alcohol. It isn't that hard to avoid it for a few months.

I understand your bacon comparison. However, I'm not caring for an unborn fetus. The things I eat don't effect anyone else. More to your point though, if a doctor said that I was diabetic and needed to avoid sugars, you bet I would!
 
2013-09-27 03:00:12 PM

meanmutton: Gothnet: SeesWhatYouDidThere: I understand the research and all, but shouldn't she have been a bit more "humiliated" walking into a bar and asking for a drink while about to pop?  I'm sure there were other people in there there didn't do the research either and were giving here the stink-eye.

Why should she be humiliated? There's never been research that says "taking a single drink while pregnant is evil", only hysterics.

"Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.


You do realize prior to pasteurization and available clean water EVERYONE including children drank MAINLY wine and beer right? If this were even slightly true half true 95% would have FAS.

Snakeophelia: EHe denied her a single glass of wine because he was worried about the health of her child. She could have just gone to another bar, or to the store.

Can't wait to see what type of mother she'll be.


Annnnnd... how would you feel if a waiter refused to serve an overweight person? Really, its none of his business. It's not like she was getting sloppy here.
 
2013-09-27 03:15:56 PM
Who said the wine was for her? (this was prolly said before, but just scanned the thread).

1) Get invited to dinner party
2) Bring something nice for the hosts
3) Polite company.

Sure, flowers or maybe some good chocolates could have worked, but for a decent dinner party, a semi-decent bottle of wine (without a screw top) is a no-fail bring along, unless you know ahead of time that the hosts are non-drinkers. Then chocolates, a cool CD, or another gift is perfectly OK.
 
2013-09-27 03:20:56 PM

Joe1549: I'm not saying she has to avoid alcohol the rest of her life. However, she has this temporary condition called "pregnancy" and it might be a good idea to avoid alcohol. It isn't that hard to avoid it for a few months.


Nor is it necessary.

Joe1549: I understand your bacon comparison. However, I'm not caring for an unborn fetus. The things I eat don't effect anyone else. More to your point though, if a doctor said that I was diabetic and needed to avoid sugars, you bet I would!


The doctor's do not say that any more, and there was never good evidence that they should. That's the difference. Neither is wanting a glass of wine once a week anything close to alcoholism.
 
2013-09-27 03:27:17 PM

PainfulItching: Who said the wine was for her? (this was prolly said before, but just scanned the thread).

1) Get invited to dinner party
2) Bring something nice for the hosts
3) Polite company.

Sure, flowers or maybe some good chocolates could have worked, but for a decent dinner party, a semi-decent bottle of wine (without a screw top) is a no-fail bring along, unless you know ahead of time that the hosts are non-drinkers. Then chocolates, a cool CD, or another gift is perfectly OK.


Nevermind me. Back to my painkillers and a nap. Damned wisdom teeth. 2 of em. Any dentist who wants to do more than 2 impacted wisdom teeth at the same time, tell him to go fry an egg, because it sucks on ice.
 
2013-09-27 03:34:40 PM
The Mail should just change their name to Butthurt Daily.
 
2013-09-27 03:41:30 PM
If a women is pregnant, then the fetus consumes what ever the mother consumes. So if the bartender had served her, he would of been serving the fetus too, therefore serving a minor.
 
2013-09-27 03:43:41 PM

FSTFKL: cgraves67: reillan: Sounds like a non-story.  She read the research, he did not.  Based on his knowledge that alcohol is bad for babies (which is true, just in greater quantities than we had expected), he opted not to serve her.  No one would ever find that to be unconscionable if they weren't either A: pregnant or B: a reporter for the Daily Fail.

That's my take as well. You can't expect the bartender to be up to date on the latest Fetal Alcohol Syndrome research. He's being cautious and there's nothing wrong with that.

How does he even know she is pregnant?  For all he knows, she's just fat.  It's none of his business.


Fat around the waist spreads around the sides.  If she was 4 months pregnant, 6 months, I might agree with you.  She's like 9 months pregnant, and *anyone* can tell from looking at her.  She's not a fat woman normally, so she doesn't have that weight around the sides.  She only has it in front.  Regardless, it's his choice who to serve and who not to serve.
 
2013-09-27 04:00:07 PM
She's right.
 
2013-09-27 05:25:29 PM
As someone currently involved in fetal alcohol research (focusing on the last trimester) I would never ever drink while pregnant. The project that I am involved with has shown that even moderate amounts of alcohol prevents purkinje cells from forming in the cerebellum. Granted, the research is on rats, but it's quite remarkable the damage that is done.
 
2013-09-27 05:39:24 PM
Fortunately, she avoided being embarrassed in front of small groups of people in the future.
So there's that.
 
2013-09-27 05:40:06 PM

kiwimoogle84: A grocery store clerk refused to sell me a bottle of wine when I was pregnant once. That's similar but WAY more extreme. I can see a bartender not wanting to watch her consume it, but the wine wasn't even for me when I bought it. It was for the Mister. I was so dumbfounded that I left all my groceries there and walked out.


I never agree with you about much of anything, but I"m with you here. And he can put all those groceries back, too.
 
2013-09-27 05:51:35 PM

Gothnet: No link to any trouble in pregnancy has been found to light drinking, a unit or two a few times a week.
The NHS advice is overly conservative.
The bartender is a hysterical asshat.


Nah, the bartender did the right thing. Biatch can live without wine for a few months or serve herself.
 
2013-09-27 06:12:58 PM

orickard: As someone currently involved in fetal alcohol research (focusing on the last trimester) I would never ever drink while pregnant. The project that I am involved with has shown that even moderate amounts of alcohol prevents purkinje cells from forming in the cerebellum. Granted, the research is on rats, but it's quite remarkable the damage that is done.


You got any info on whether type matters? Beer, wine, liquor?

And thanks for "purkinje cells." My family is a group of medical. . . Enthusiasts? I dunno, we love learning about weird medical crap, so we gobble stuff like that up. I don't think the info has swayed me to abstain from all drinking during pregnancy, but I'm keeping an open mind.

/and it's kind of academic for me to worry about alcohol when I'm a daily pot user, though again, you can make the argument for Jamaica that you can for Italy and France
 
2013-09-27 06:26:10 PM
There was a "What would you do" about this.  Not only is the bartender not supposed to serve her all the patrons are supposed to berate the woman and call her a bad parent.  Thanks ABC!
 
2013-09-27 08:18:56 PM

entropic_existence: meanmutton: "Women should avoid alcohol entirely while pregnant or trying to conceive because damage can occur in the earliest weeks of pregnancy, even before a woman knows that she is pregnant." -- The noted hysterics at the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

The damage is only caused by binge drinking or being a pretty constant drunk. "Light" alcohol consumption, even in the earliest periods of pregnancy, do not cause harm to the fetus. In addition, medical groups like the ACOG will often have official statements that are overly cautious based more on politics than on actual science.

trotsky: Pregnant women can drink about a half glass a day with absolutely no issues. In fact, it may have benefits. My wife agonized over it because she's a wine person but after reading all the research she was comfortable, as was I.

Nobody ever had an issue serving her and she never had more than a half glass.

And really it can be more that that, but it all depends on the woman's size and metabolism too. The studies tend to ask about "servings per week" but basically 1-2 servings at a time will be fine.


They are hysterics on this issue.  But here's the deal: if you can, you know, read well enough to learn the facts you may be able to manage your intake.  If the doctor has to tell you not to drink while pregnant, you probably shouldn't.
 
2013-09-27 10:01:08 PM

fartacus: Gothnet: No link to any trouble in pregnancy has been found to light drinking, a unit or two a few times a week.
The NHS advice is overly conservative.
The bartender is a hysterical asshat.

Nah, the bartender did the right thing. Biatch can live without wine for a few months or serve herself.


Cool, so I guess you'll be ok if nobody serves you bacon for a couple of years? It's not like there's a reason to do that, but what the hell, it's good for you and if you object you're probably an addict.
 
2013-09-28 12:30:37 AM
I only drink to get a mild buzz, so there'd be no point of me drinking while pregnant.

Granted, I love a good wine and actually enjoy the taste (versus my college years of, "whatever gets me drunk"), but I still think I wouldn't drink at all throughout pregnancy. Why this woman would be so butthurt baffles me.

/mom had a glass of wine a couple weeks before I was born
//explains everything
///drunk right now, why do you ask?
 
2013-09-28 01:26:38 AM
Maybe she just misheard him from all the fat in hear ears and he really said "We don't serve white trash here." Since that's the only folk who'd drink while pregnant publically.
 
2013-09-28 09:40:04 AM

Gothnet: fartacus: Gothnet: No link to any trouble in pregnancy has been found to light drinking, a unit or two a few times a week.
The NHS advice is overly conservative.
The bartender is a hysterical asshat.

Nah, the bartender did the right thing. Biatch can live without wine for a few months or serve herself.

Cool, so I guess you'll be ok if nobody serves you bacon for a couple of years? It's not like there's a reason to do that, but what the hell, it's good for you and if you object you're probably an addict.


I would be OK with someone refusing to serve me bacon for some reason (for instance, if I were clearly overweight or had a heart condition). I don't not have a right to be served bacon, and no one should be forced to serve me bacon. Worst case, I can serve myself bacon.
 
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