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(Mother Nature Network)   Ways you and your pets can coexist with coyotes. Getting rid of all your falling anvils and Acme rockets is a good start   (mnn.com) divider line 28
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2636 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2013 at 10:12 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-27 10:57:52 AM
4 votes:

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."


In my *ACTUAL* experience, meaning I've done this, hunting pressure is effective in keeping them away from residential areas.

It's been about 4 years now that we haven't had a coyote problem in our area.  Oh, they're out there in the woods, and we can hear them occasionally at night, but they don't come around our backyards like they used to.

The problem was, prior to taking action, the coyotes in this area were getting pretty brazen because they didn't have anything to fear.  They'd saunter through the yards in broad daylight, without worrying about the occasional noisy two-legged creatures.

Now, they have a reason to give those creatures a wide berth.

I expect that at some time, after the "memory" of a few years ago has died out in the local 'yote population, they'll get brazen again, and I'll have to teach them again.

In the mean time, they stay where they belong, in the woods, and I'm OK with that.
2013-09-27 09:53:39 AM
3 votes:
I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.
2013-09-27 12:05:09 PM
2 votes:

SwiftFox: HeadLever: SwiftFox: along with the rest of the drooling hate in this thread.

I don't see much hate outside of jso2897.  Just mostly a discussion on various management and tactical methods of controlling coyotes.  You may not like the discussion, but it is intellectually dishonest to lable it as hate.

In response to an article about how to live with the presence of coyotes while avoiding as much of that unnecessary bloodshed as trouble, post after post advocating that they be killed summarily whenever possible, whether they are animals causing problems or merely suspected as a future cause because they are coyotes? This doesn't indicate an intense or passionate dislike for coyotes?


It has nothing whatsoever to do with hate. Coyotes act like coyotes. It's foolish to expect an animal to act in any way not according with its instincts.

Personally, I love coyotes. They're beautiful, fascinating animals. But they're also a pest species that can occasionally be dangerous to humans, and the most efficient way to deal with one in your neighborhood is to get rid of it. If you live in the city, by all means, call animal control (but know they're probably going to euthanize it); in more rural areas, you trap or preferably shoot them. There may be more effective long-term means of managing the species as a whole, but on an individual basis a varmint rifle works really well.

Anyone talking about "unnecessary bloodshed" in the context of nonhuman animals (with possible exception of critically-endangered species, dolphins, and the higher primates) is being a bleeding-heart.
2013-09-27 10:30:43 AM
2 votes:

jshine: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

If you wanted to kill them, rat poison & hamburger would probably take less work.


It would also kill a lot more than the target species - including many things you'd rather not harm like your or the neighbor's pets.
2013-09-27 03:58:36 PM
1 votes:

HeadLever: SwiftFox: And I pointed out that violence without empathy or remorse was the definition of "psychopath".

So when you kill a fly, that is violence without empathy or remorse and you are a psychopath?  When you brush your teeth and kill all of those bacteria without empathy or remorse, you are a psychopath?  When you pluck that carrot out of the ground screaming on the day of their holocaust, you are a psychopath; right Reverend Maynard?


You know, I love how he assumes that just because we hunt animals we have no empathy for them. I have empathy for them. That's why I don't use traps that put the animal in pain. I don't use poisons or methods of killing the animal that cause it to feel needless pain. I make a quick, clean, humane kill with a straight heart shot, and 99% of my kills are dead on their feet or live less than 10 seconds after taking the shot.

I take a shot only when I know I can hit the target, and make a proper kill. I don't do what some idiots do and just blast away. I've caught some hunters who even go so far as to blast away with their shotguns and blow off limbs and gutshot the dear, leaving it laying there, dying in pain, for hours. That's not my way.

I feel empathy for all animals. And what I know is what I see: When a herd of animals overloads their natural habitat, they run out of food and starve. They become susceptible to disease that ends up decimating their populations. They tend to become sickly or threaten to overrun other populations, in some cases wiping out forests or populations of common prey animals and food plants.

When it comes to livestock and crops, animals that are not kept in balance with their habitat are a liability because they tend to break into the feed stores for cattle or eat crops out in the field. They eat a diet that isn't healthy for them and it causes more medical issues, and also can cause the spread of disease to domestic animals like cows and horses.

With regards to Javalina and feral hog, these animals tend to create wallows and rub against trees, killing acres of trees and destroying land. Plus, they are highly territorial and will attack anything that comes close to them, whether or not it's a threat. Because they also breed like rabbits, they can, if left unchecked, destroy grazing lands and crop lands by simply eating and rutting across it, destroying the ground and the crops in the process.

With coyotes, they become a threat to cattle because as their numbers grow, they will pack together and take down bigger prey, and again, if left unchecked, will overwhelm an area with their sheer numbers, attacking domestic animals and humans, and communicating diseases.

Wild animals are not cute little furry pets no one has taken home yet. They're not that mutt with a heart of gold that you see in disney movies. They have an impact on the environment, they have an impact on domestic food production, and they have an impact on property and livelihoods of farmers.  Hunters play a role in this by acting as a predator for game animals have no other natural enemies to hunt them.

You think it's inhumane and "psychopathic" to hunt these animals. I think it's inhumane to allow any animal to go about its natural life without outside forces that act to thin their numbers and keep their population healthy overall.  If you ask any conservationist, they will tell you the same thing: Thinning the numbers of animal populations reduces their load on their environment and extends the life and health of each and every member of the heard as they are able to have a more abundant food supply and a healthier environment overall.

Now, kindly stop talking out of your ass, babbling on about poor bambie while playing with your rickie raccoon plush toy and jerking it to furry porn. Clueless environmentalists who want to save the animals and do everything wrong while on their quixotic crusade to do so do more harm to everyone than they do good.  Pity we don't have any natural predators of humans to thin our population, we could sure use it.
2013-09-27 03:06:32 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: And I pointed out that violence without empathy or remorse was the definition of "psychopath".


So when you kill a fly, that is violence without empathy or remorse and you are a psychopath?  When you brush your teeth and kill all of those bacteria without empathy or remorse, you are a psychopath?  When you pluck that carrot out of the ground screaming on the day of their holocaust, you are a psychopath; right Reverend Maynard?
2013-09-27 02:44:36 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: because your method is so little known it must be enthusiastically promoted.


?

What does the popularity or innate knowledge of any one method have to do with any of these arguments?  I just stated the obvious that one method is typically much cheaper than the others.  All of them can be effective, but if one costs 45 cents and the other cost several thousand dollars, it is pretty obvious which one will be most popular method.

If you want to coexist with coyotes, that does not bother me at all.  However, it is apparent that anyone elses refusal to subscribe to the same ideals that you have does not sit very well with you.
2013-09-27 01:51:05 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.


Nonhuman animals are not equal to people. Get over it.
2013-09-27 01:11:17 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: You have no idea what that means, do you?


Sure do.  It is when you attack the person making the argument instead of the argument itself.  Calling folks drooling morons and stating that they have antisocial personality disorders without addressing the central point is exactly an ad hominem.
2013-09-27 12:34:59 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: SwiftFox: HeadLever: SwiftFox:

Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood,


Sure - I love plenty of wildlife.  I just love my kids more - and they are a danger to my kids: Reference - warning, pdf

and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas.

If they stay in their environment and out of mine, more power to them.  But any animal, wether 'yote or human, will defend its territory.  I am no exception.
2013-09-27 12:31:07 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: One of my neighbors at that time, since moved, had several larger, active dogs that would occasionally get loose.  A 35 lb coyote isn't going to try to attack a 60 lb lab mix.


No, "one" 35lb song-dog is not going to attack a 60 lb Lab, in fact, my mom had a similar lab mix that she say playing with a coyote once.

However, that is an exception to the norm, and often, there is not "one" coyote, but several.  They are pack animals, after all, and they have been known to take down large dogs, attacking from both sides and taking out the back legs.
2013-09-27 12:21:50 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life


If that 'merly trying to live its life' means some risk to my my property, then it really doesn't matter much that I like them or not.   It is a matter of protecting what I own.  I can like coyotes and still protect my property.

Just because we don't assign an individual coyote to be as important as our property, does not mean that we don't necessarily like them.  They just happen to be a ways down on the totem pole.
2013-09-27 12:21:07 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.


They have their place.  That place is *NOT* in residential areas.  I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way.  You might feel differently if you had a young child that you would like to let play in the backyard.  A coyote that isn't threatened by the appearance of an adult human might well look upon a small child as a potential food source.

It's happened in the past.
2013-09-27 12:10:11 PM
1 votes:

blunttrauma: dittybopper: The problem:  Sometimes the neighbors pets get loose.  Putting out poisoned hamburger or a trap is a recipe for some very, very bad blood between you and your neighbors when Fluffy or Spot ends up dead.

I thought about that sort of thing when we had a coyote problem, and the risks just weren't worth it.

If neighbors pets are getting out with coyotes around, they are just as likely to get killed by the coyotes as poison.  Coyotes love domestic animals, generally speaking because they know they are all but defenseless.  Lots of stories around here of coyotes hopping fences, grabbing fluffy and hopping back out.

In fact, I saw an article a few years ago about a coyote hunter who used a stuffed Snoopy as a decoy when calling them in, with excellent results.


One of my neighbors at that time, since moved, had several larger, active dogs that would occasionally get loose.  A 35 lb coyote isn't going to try to attack a 60 lb lab mix.

Now, as much as I jokingly called him and his wife "Sonsabiatches Bumpasses" jokingly under my breath, I didn't want his dogs to eat poisoned burger or to get caught in the leg hold traps I have.
2013-09-27 12:02:06 PM
1 votes:
I find laying off the Guatemalan insanity peppers keeps the giant space coyotes at bay.
2013-09-27 11:42:52 AM
1 votes:
Native American saying of yore:  "Never trust a coyote".

Coyotes will generally win in a fight with most dogs, because dogs fight for dominance, but coyotes fight to kill.  Except for large dogs, coyotes see dogs as food.  The same with cats.  And in recent years there has been half a dozen cases of coyotes attacking infants out in the open, even in fenced yards.  Coyotes have been known to go over an 8' fence to get a small dog, and carry it back over the fence.

The great ability of coyotes comes from a "tactical sense".  They will plot and carry out a scheme, not just act on impulse.  Two or even three have been seen to work together.  For example, coyotes have figured out that when they see a human walking a small dog on a leash, they can sneak up behind them and "purse snatch" the small dog.  If a large dog chases one, it may run into an ambush with two coyotes "double-teaming" it.

This is different from wolves, that use "practiced strategy" with assigned roles and signals among an entire pack.  Wolves are far more intelligent than coyotes, in some cases with the estimated intelligence of a 5 year old human child, and wolves will generally kill coyotes when they encounter them.

However, in recent years, for unknown reasons, in the eastern US, there has been several sightings of "Coy-Wolves", a hybrid of coyotes and wolves.  The US Department of the Interior has designated these animals as so dangerous that they should be shot on sight.  A hunter described them as "the canine equivalent of a leopard", as far as being potentially dangerous.  Coyote-dog and Wolf-dog hybrids are far less dangerous.

A Coy-Wolf.

i.imgur.com
2013-09-27 11:31:39 AM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: along with the rest of the drooling hate in this thread.


I don't see much hate outside of jso2897.  Just mostly a discussion on various management and tactical methods of controlling coyotes.  You may not like the discussion, but it is intellectually dishonest to lable it as hate.
2013-09-27 11:31:14 AM
1 votes:

dittybopper: The problem is that in areas like mine (the edge between suburban and semi-rural), they can become habituated to humans, to the point where they won't run when you open the door and yell at them.


That's what I figured.  We're semi-rural to rural but are they're actually starting to get bolder around here.  Used to never see one in the day or up close but this spring I killed one on my mom's land with my Ruger Security-six .357.  Just stood there and let me get 30 yards or so away.

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."


I'd bet you'll find most of those posting here have a great deal of experience in dealing with wildlife.  You'd note that nobody says that fences and guard animals don't work.  Further, unlike what the story suggest are they not anything new.  I come from a family of dairy farmers and grew up working on one.  People have been putting donkeys in with their cattle to protect from predators as long as I've been alive and well before coyotes had any kind of a presence in central Alabama.

Having said that, read bopper's post about them not even running.  When an individual predator animals become a threat to your family or property (and one that no longer fears you is a threat whether or not it has acted out) unless you've go a national forest to relocate them on the only solution is to eliminate the threat in a fashion that ensures it will not return - and a rifle will readily accomplish that goal.
2013-09-27 11:07:30 AM
1 votes:
I was outside my house last night smoking and I heard what sounded like 3+ coyotes howling and some neighborhood dogs barking their heads off.  Trust that I am vigilante when I let out our schnauzer-mix out at night to go to the bathroom.
2013-09-27 11:04:46 AM
1 votes:

stevarooni: Coyote disposal is actually an arena in which the AR-15 excels; getting 200+ yards with .223 is pretty easy, and it's powerful enough to get the job done without spending 75¢+/rd.


Correct, plus many fur hunters love the .223 since you don't typically have to sow as much pelt back together.
2013-09-27 10:53:49 AM
1 votes:

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.


Shooting things is one of the cheapest ways to manange this type of wildlife (and profitable for the state wildlife agencies).  It is not that we reject any other form.  If you want to go buy 4 or 5 Great Pyranese for 500 each and that much in dog food per month, feel free.
2013-09-27 10:53:30 AM
1 votes:

dittybopper: The problem is that in areas like mine (the edge between suburban and semi-rural), they can become habituated to humans, to the point where they won't run when you open the door and yell at them.


Yup.  We live on the edge of the Nat'l forest.  Those bastards slip inside our fence now and again, even with our dogs barking like mad.

dittybopper: A bow is also effective.


So I went this route, too - except crossbow.  I don't have the patience necessary to get really good at a regular bow, and the neighbors get ancy if I use my deer rifle near the houses.
2013-09-27 10:51:04 AM
1 votes:

JustGetItRight: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

You must live in a relatively developed area where they come in close.  You're lucky to get within 75 yards of them around here so you need something that can reach out and touch someone.

.243, 22-250, or just use the deer rifle.


The problem is that in areas like mine (the edge between suburban and semi-rural), they can become habituated to humans, to the point where they won't run when you open the door and yell at them.

A bow is also effective.  I actually went actively bowhunting them in the "wetlands" behind the house.  And after decades of basically just hunting deer, rabbits, and squirrels, I learned that I'd been missing out.  Predator hunting is exciting.
2013-09-27 10:50:44 AM
1 votes:
Wow.  Fences and guard dogs.  My family has apparently been using cutting edge techniques for the last hundred years or so...

/We still shoot the bastards when the dogs and fences don't work
2013-09-27 10:39:48 AM
1 votes:
Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."
2013-09-27 10:28:34 AM
1 votes:

dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.


You must live in a relatively developed area where they come in close.  You're lucky to get within 75 yards of them around here so you need something that can reach out and touch someone.

.243, 22-250, or just use the deer rifle.
2013-09-27 10:28:26 AM
1 votes:

dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.


If you wanted to kill them, rat poison & hamburger would probably take less work.
2013-09-27 10:21:49 AM
1 votes:
After having one charge at me I'm not all that inclined to co-exist. They can either vanish when I'm outside or they can die in a hail of gunfire that'll make the NYPD look like pacifists.
 
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