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(Mother Nature Network)   Ways you and your pets can coexist with coyotes. Getting rid of all your falling anvils and Acme rockets is a good start   (mnn.com) divider line 129
    More: Interesting, Acme, Marin County, breeds of dogs, alarm signal, rockets, pets, environmental studies  
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2636 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2013 at 10:12 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-27 12:14:55 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: SwiftFox: HeadLever: SwiftFox: along with the rest of the drooling hate in this thread.

I don't see much hate outside of jso2897.  Just mostly a discussion on various management and tactical methods of controlling coyotes.  You may not like the discussion, but it is intellectually dishonest to lable it as hate.

In response to an article about how to live with the presence of coyotes while avoiding as much of that unnecessary bloodshed as trouble, post after post advocating that they be killed summarily whenever possible, whether they are animals causing problems or merely suspected as a future cause because they are coyotes? This doesn't indicate an intense or passionate dislike for coyotes?

It has nothing whatsoever to do with hate. Coyotes act like coyotes. It's foolish to expect an animal to act in any way not according with its instincts.

Personally, I love coyotes. They're beautiful, fascinating animals. But they're also a pest species that can occasionally be dangerous to humans, and the most efficient way to deal with one in your neighborhood is to get rid of it. If you live in the city, by all means, call animal control (but know they're probably going to euthanize it); in more rural areas, you trap or preferably shoot them. There may be more effective long-term means of managing the species as a whole, but on an individual basis a varmint rifle works really well.

Anyone talking about "unnecessary bloodshed" in the context of nonhuman animals (with possible exception of critically-endangered species, dolphins, and the higher primates) is being a bleeding-heart.


Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.
 
2013-09-27 12:21:07 PM

SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.


They have their place.  That place is *NOT* in residential areas.  I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way.  You might feel differently if you had a young child that you would like to let play in the backyard.  A coyote that isn't threatened by the appearance of an adult human might well look upon a small child as a potential food source.

It's happened in the past.
 
2013-09-27 12:21:50 PM

SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life


If that 'merly trying to live its life' means some risk to my my property, then it really doesn't matter much that I like them or not.   It is a matter of protecting what I own.  I can like coyotes and still protect my property.

Just because we don't assign an individual coyote to be as important as our property, does not mean that we don't necessarily like them.  They just happen to be a ways down on the totem pole.
 
2013-09-27 12:25:02 PM
assets.nydailynews.com
Taylor Mitchell was killed and eaten by coyotes in Cape Breton, Canada where it's illegal to carry a gun for protection against animals. Thinking that there's a way to live with a large pack carnivore is unbelievably assinine. I'm fine with them eating everyone in the Hottubistan that is Marin County but any where I live will get a little visit from a 22-250. There is a reason they're called varmint rifles.
 
2013-09-27 12:28:51 PM
We have something fun happening here in Denver. The crazy cat ladies have moved from hoarding cats in their apartments to supporting the exploding feral cat populations infesting our alleys and parks. This shift is a great boon to the coyotes. Basically, these women are providing food for a booming population of urban coyotes. Throw in the bird defenders and we're starting to see a 3 way fight over which animals need 'protected' and which need 'to go'. A whole lot of crazy going on.
 
2013-09-27 12:31:07 PM

dittybopper: One of my neighbors at that time, since moved, had several larger, active dogs that would occasionally get loose.  A 35 lb coyote isn't going to try to attack a 60 lb lab mix.


No, "one" 35lb song-dog is not going to attack a 60 lb Lab, in fact, my mom had a similar lab mix that she say playing with a coyote once.

However, that is an exception to the norm, and often, there is not "one" coyote, but several.  They are pack animals, after all, and they have been known to take down large dogs, attacking from both sides and taking out the back legs.
 
2013-09-27 12:31:09 PM

dittybopper: SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.

They have their place.  That place is *NOT* in residential areas.  I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way.  You might feel differently if you had a young child that you would like to let play in the backyard.  A coyote that isn't threatened by the appearance of an adult human might well look upon a small child as a potential food source.

It's happened in the past.


Hell, it's happening today, Link
 
2013-09-27 12:32:19 PM

dittybopper: SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.

They have their place.  That place is *NOT* in residential areas.  I'm sorry if you don't feel the same way.  You might feel differently if you had a young child that you would like to let play in the backyard.  A coyote that isn't threatened by the appearance of an adult human might well look upon a small child as a potential food source.

It's happened in the past.


And it's amazing just how many communities manage to get along with their coyote populations with little or no trouble, coexisting with at most the removal of a few problem coyotes, whole cities of drooling morons, by a drooling moron's judgement, not pretending they have horrible problem they don't have.  How foolish of all those places to treat the problem reasonably as how to continue living and enjoying the presence and value of wildlife, and how inconvenient for those wanting to exercise their antisocial personality disorders manifested in violence without empathy or remorse.
 
2013-09-27 12:34:08 PM
Hell, it's happening today, Link

Wow, today, it's 2011.
 
2013-09-27 12:34:45 PM

SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.


I can like wolves just fine without wanting them to poop on my ottoman.  Wolves should live away from people.  Obviously we don't make it easy for them, encroaching upon their habitats, but I'd liefer every last one be dropped into the dustbin of history than they bite a single human being who's simply living in human lands, doing human things.
 
2013-09-27 12:34:59 PM

SwiftFox: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: SwiftFox: HeadLever: SwiftFox:

Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood,


Sure - I love plenty of wildlife.  I just love my kids more - and they are a danger to my kids: Reference - warning, pdf

and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas.

If they stay in their environment and out of mine, more power to them.  But any animal, wether 'yote or human, will defend its territory.  I am no exception.
 
2013-09-27 12:38:40 PM

SwiftFox: Hell, it's happening today, Link

Wow, today, it's 2011.


Here's a link to attacks from a few months ago. Try google, there are dozens of additional examples.
Link
 
2013-09-27 12:41:54 PM

blunttrauma: However, that is an exception to the norm, and often, there is not "one" coyote, but several. They are pack animals, after all, and they have been known to take down large dogs, attacking from both sides and taking out the back legs.


That's how my violin teacher (hey, stop laughing!) lost her two german shepherds - several coyotes managed to take them down and maul them to death before her husband managed to chase them off with a shotgun
 
2013-09-27 12:47:03 PM

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."


This is true.  It's why we're overrun with bison.
 
2013-09-27 12:50:06 PM

SwiftFox: And it's amazing just how many communities manage to get along with their coyote populations with little or no trouble, coexisting with at most the removal of a few problem coyotes, whole cities of drooling morons, by a drooling moron's judgement, not pretending they have horrible problem they don't have. How foolish of all those places to treat the problem reasonably as how to continue living and enjoying the presence and value of wildlife, and how inconvenient for those wanting to exercise their antisocial personality disorders manifested in violence without empathy or remorse.


You come here complaining about all the hate, but it seems to be you that is putting forth the most anitisocial personality disorder manifest in name calling and ad hominems
 
2013-09-27 12:52:09 PM
I don't know where you guys are finding coyotes with salable pelts.   The ones that come into Chicago to snatch poodles are mangy at best, not even worth skinning.    They're so desperate, they'll eat at Quiznos:
i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-09-27 12:57:29 PM

HeadLever: ad hominem


You have no idea what that means, do you?
 
2013-09-27 01:01:33 PM

SwiftFox: HeadLever: ad hominem

You have no idea what that means, do you?


It means something? I thought he was a rap artist.
 
2013-09-27 01:06:52 PM
What's really fun is when some dumba** decides that hunting foxes isn't fun enough and decides to put some coyotes in his fox preserve....turns out those fences won't hold a coyote.

http://www.northcarolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=391
 
2013-09-27 01:11:17 PM

SwiftFox: You have no idea what that means, do you?


Sure do.  It is when you attack the person making the argument instead of the argument itself.  Calling folks drooling morons and stating that they have antisocial personality disorders without addressing the central point is exactly an ad hominem.
 
2013-09-27 01:14:05 PM
for more information on ad hominems you can refer to this
 
2013-09-27 01:15:12 PM
Linky failure.  Try this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Graham%27s_Hierarch y_of_Disagreement1.svg"
 
2013-09-27 01:16:00 PM

dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.


I was going to say .30-06 but pretty much
 
2013-09-27 01:24:45 PM
Headlever, that "Drooling moron" reference was his, in response to what I thought a reasonable desire for wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things, and a note that simply killing them randomly is a poor control method due to their simply being replaced with new coyotes. That lack of reason and mindless rejection of nonviolence gave fair reason for pointing out the person was merely mirroring himself.
 
2013-09-27 01:26:57 PM
A good deke to the stick-side usually takes care of them...

storage.canoe.ca

/Get better soon Samwise...
 
2013-09-27 01:28:40 PM
www.hyattgunstore.com

That, loaded with 70gr Barnes TSX bullets loaded to 2600 FPS works quite well.

Goddamn coyotes.
 
2013-09-27 01:30:36 PM

SwiftFox: that "Drooling moron" reference was his,


Wrong, Ditty never referenced drooling morons in this thread.
 
2013-09-27 01:33:15 PM
It's that disconnect from normal human beings that makes some think a good way to impress the ladies is describing turning prairie dogs "into a red mist" and inviting them out to share the thrill and admire their skill doing so, and that made OscarTamerz think he had a free pass for posting (briefly) the barn covered with dead coyotes in a forum used by normal people, simply assuming the rule against posting images of dead animals did not apply because they were coyotes.
 
2013-09-27 01:38:47 PM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: that "Drooling moron" reference was his,

Wrong, Ditty never referenced drooling morons in this thread.


Ah, yes, perhaps I made a mistake. It was another drooling moron who thought being reasonable and thoughtful was reason to call another a drooling moron.
 
2013-09-27 01:41:41 PM

SwiftFox: It's that disconnect from normal human beings that makes some think a good way to impress the ladies is describing turning prairie dogs "into a red mist" and inviting them out to share the thrill and admire their skill doing so, and that made OscarTamerz think he had a free pass for posting (briefly) the barn covered with dead coyotes in a forum used by normal people, simply assuming the rule against posting images of dead animals did not apply because they were coyotes.


To be fair, I know a lot of ladies have loved going out to the range and hunting prairie dogs.  Also, "normal" is relative. If YOU'RE considered normal, I'm glad I'm not.
 
2013-09-27 01:48:25 PM

SwiftFox: It was another drooling moron who thought being reasonable and thoughtful was reason to call another a drooling moron.


So the more, the merrier?
 
2013-09-27 01:50:21 PM

Kit Fister: SwiftFox: It's that disconnect from normal human beings that makes some think a good way to impress the ladies is describing turning prairie dogs "into a red mist" and inviting them out to share the thrill and admire their skill doing so, and that made OscarTamerz think he had a free pass for posting (briefly) the barn covered with dead coyotes in a forum used by normal people, simply assuming the rule against posting images of dead animals did not apply because they were coyotes.

To be fair, I know a lot of ladies have loved going out to the range and hunting prairie dogs.  Also, "normal" is relative. If YOU'RE considered normal, I'm glad I'm not.


Not wanting to commit violence without empathy or remorse? Perhaps fitting the textbook definition for "psycopath" may become normal someday, I'm glad it hasn't yet, and that that kind of approach usually results in a dumbfounded wondering on what he said wrong in the conversation.
 
2013-09-27 01:51:05 PM

SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.


Nonhuman animals are not equal to people. Get over it.
 
2013-09-27 01:52:40 PM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: It was another drooling moron who thought being reasonable and thoughtful was reason to call another a drooling moron.

So the more, the merrier?


That seemed the idea of the general merry promotion of shooting dogs going on.
 
2013-09-27 01:54:22 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: SwiftFox: Oh, you just love animals that you advocate slaughtering just because they exist in the neighborhood, and you consider the way of dealing with these animals you love is "get rid of it" for merly trying to live its life; whether in urban or rural areas. You have no concept of attempting to treat animals humanely, and you think that and you are normal? You're a psychopath.

Nonhuman animals are not equal to people. Get over it.


Psychopaths exercise their problem on animals as well as humans. Get well.
 
2013-09-27 01:57:34 PM

SwiftFox: It's that disconnect from normal human beings that makes some think a good way to impress the ladies is describing turning prairie dogs "into a red mist" and inviting them out to share the thrill and admire their skill doing so,


Some ladies love to do this type of hunting.  Not all of them but a good many of them do.  Just like the guys.

I don't do this to 'impress the ladies' as I am married.  I do it because I enjoy the outdoors, I like to test my markmanship, I like to help out my ranching friends and relatives.  What is disconnected is your idea of what motivates us to like something that you obviously don't.
 
2013-09-27 01:57:58 PM

SwiftFox: Not wanting to commit violence without empathy or remorse? Perhaps fitting the textbook definition for "psycopath" may become normal someday, I'm glad it hasn't yet, and that that kind of approach usually results in a dumbfounded wondering on what he said wrong in the conversation.


Around here, we hunt for food, and to rid the area of animals that attack and kill livestock, destroy property, and attack people. They're animals, they're not human. There's nothing wrong with killing them, nor anything inhuman about exercising a hunter's spirit. I'm sorry if you can't handle the fact that some people enjoy the fact that we are, in fact, predators, and take part in actively being predators that help balance populations and prevent destruction of wild habitats by overpopulation by said game animals.

Plonk.
 
2013-09-27 01:59:32 PM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: It's that disconnect from normal human beings that makes some think a good way to impress the ladies is describing turning prairie dogs "into a red mist" and inviting them out to share the thrill and admire their skill doing so,

Some ladies love to do this type of hunting.  Not all of them but a good many of them do.  Just like the guys.

I don't do this to 'impress the ladies' as I am married.  I do it because I enjoy the outdoors, I like to test my markmanship, I like to help out my ranching friends and relatives.  What is disconnected is your idea of what motivates us to like something that you obviously don't.


I think he's a furry and offended that we kill his brothers.
 
2013-09-27 02:00:57 PM

SwiftFox: That seemed the idea of the general merry promotion of shooting dogs going on.

Most of the motivation that I saw in this thread was to protect property or other interests, not for merriment.

 
2013-09-27 02:05:44 PM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: That seemed the idea of the general merry promotion of shooting dogs going on.

Most of the motivation that I saw in this thread was to protect property or other interests, not for merriment.


No, it was to try and ridicule and belittle the concept of protecting property and other interests while coexisting with the wildlife, which the article described methods and progress towards, and to discourage anything but bullets and killing.
 
2013-09-27 02:06:45 PM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: That seemed the idea of the general merry promotion of shooting dogs going on.

Most of the motivation that I saw in this thread was to protect property or other interests, not for merriment.


Oh, I fully enjoy shooting feral hogs -- nasty, vicious little bastards. Coyotes, I enjoy watching them run unless they come to oclose to the livestock, then I need to thin their population a bit.

Also, prairie dogs are just fun to vaporize, as are ground squirrels. Digging holes all over the goddamn place. Take horses and cattle down, make it treacherous to walk around ranch land.
 
2013-09-27 02:09:43 PM
I don't need to know how to have my pets and coyotes co-exist... Knowing my pup there would be an extended period of frolicing before he decided to be their king.


SwiftFox: HeadLever: SwiftFox: that "Drooling moron" reference was his,

Wrong, Ditty never referenced drooling morons in this thread.

Ah, yes, perhaps I made a mistake. It was another drooling moron who thought being reasonable and thoughtful was reason to call another a drooling moron.


You know... If you'd like to say that you're not engaging in ad hominems then this is precisely the kind of comment you shouldn't be making. As much as I advocate us as a species being MUCH more reserved in our aggressive habitat encroachment and cautious in our management of wildlife, you're coming off as one of only a few actually hateful posters in this thread.
 
2013-09-27 02:13:48 PM

SwiftFox: and to discourage anything but bullets and killing.


?  where did anyone do that?  Just pointing out that a bullet is much cheaper and practical than fences (which doesn't work on free-range and can be expensive to change) and guard animals (which can be very expensive) is not discouraging these other protections in the slightest.
 
2013-09-27 02:16:03 PM

Kit Fister: Also, prairie dogs are just fun to vaporize, as are ground squirrels. Digging holes all over the goddamn place. Take horses and cattle down, make it treacherous to walk around ranch land.


Plus they can eat a pile of grass and alfalfa and thier burrows can screw up swathers.
 
2013-09-27 02:16:05 PM

Scoop84: jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."
This is true.  It's why we're overrun with bison.


Fact: meso-carnivores don't react to hunting pressures the same way that herbivores do.
 
2013-09-27 02:24:23 PM

cryinoutloud: Scoop84: jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."
This is true.  It's why we're overrun with bison.

Fact: meso-carnivores don't react to hunting pressures the same way that herbivores do.


I was really just being a smartass, but would point out that wolves have been effectively hunted, practically to extinction.
 
2013-09-27 02:30:06 PM

Scoop84: I was really just being a smartass, but would point out that wolves have been effectively hunted, practically to extinction.


A couple of points here.  Wolves were never hunted to near extinction.  They have always been listed by the IUCN as 'least concern'.  In additin, wolves in the lower 48 were pretty much eradicated by poisoning, not by hunting.
 
2013-09-27 02:35:28 PM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: and to discourage anything but bullets and killing.

?  where did anyone do that?  Just pointing out that a bullet is much cheaper and practical than fences (which doesn't work on free-range and can be expensive to change) and guard animals (which can be very expensive) is not discouraging these other protections in the slightest.


Oh, yeah, of course, it was your pure and innocent motivation to reveal to those pore ignorant ranchers that they can shoot coyotes instead of attempting to coexist with the methods described in the article, because your method is so little known it must be enthusiastically promoted. Uh huh, sure it is, that's the ticket.
 
2013-09-27 02:39:48 PM

Kit Fister: SwiftFox: Not wanting to commit violence without empathy or remorse? Perhaps fitting the textbook definition for "psycopath" may become normal someday, I'm glad it hasn't yet, and that that kind of approach usually results in a dumbfounded wondering on what he said wrong in the conversation.

Around here, we hunt for food, and to rid the area of animals that attack and kill livestock, destroy property, and attack people. They're animals, they're not human. There's nothing wrong with killing them, nor anything inhuman about exercising a hunter's spirit. I'm sorry if you can't handle the fact that some people enjoy the fact that we are, in fact, predators, and take part in actively being predators that help balance populations and prevent destruction of wild habitats by overpopulation by said game animals.

Plonk.


You're now farkied in a lovely shade of green as Good Guy Hunter.
 
2013-09-27 02:44:36 PM

SwiftFox: because your method is so little known it must be enthusiastically promoted.


?

What does the popularity or innate knowledge of any one method have to do with any of these arguments?  I just stated the obvious that one method is typically much cheaper than the others.  All of them can be effective, but if one costs 45 cents and the other cost several thousand dollars, it is pretty obvious which one will be most popular method.

If you want to coexist with coyotes, that does not bother me at all.  However, it is apparent that anyone elses refusal to subscribe to the same ideals that you have does not sit very well with you.
 
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