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(Mother Nature Network)   Ways you and your pets can coexist with coyotes. Getting rid of all your falling anvils and Acme rockets is a good start   (mnn.com) divider line 129
    More: Interesting, Acme, Marin County, breeds of dogs, alarm signal, rockets, pets, environmental studies  
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2641 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2013 at 10:12 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-27 09:53:39 AM
I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.
 
2013-09-27 10:17:18 AM
"Mornin' Sam."

"Mornin' Ralph."
 
2013-09-27 10:21:49 AM
After having one charge at me I'm not all that inclined to co-exist. They can either vanish when I'm outside or they can die in a hail of gunfire that'll make the NYPD look like pacifists.
 
2013-09-27 10:28:26 AM

dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.


If you wanted to kill them, rat poison & hamburger would probably take less work.
 
2013-09-27 10:28:34 AM

dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.


You must live in a relatively developed area where they come in close.  You're lucky to get within 75 yards of them around here so you need something that can reach out and touch someone.

.243, 22-250, or just use the deer rifle.
 
2013-09-27 10:30:01 AM
The article mentions donkeys as guard animals for sheep.  I've seen this be very successful. For whatever reason donkeys HATE coyotes and coyotes tend to avoid large animals that want to kick their brains out through their ears then trample their corpse.
 
2013-09-27 10:30:43 AM

jshine: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

If you wanted to kill them, rat poison & hamburger would probably take less work.


It would also kill a lot more than the target species - including many things you'd rather not harm like your or the neighbor's pets.
 
2013-09-27 10:33:26 AM

JustGetItRight: jshine: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

If you wanted to kill them, rat poison & hamburger would probably take less work.

It would also kill a lot more than the target species - including many things you'd rather not harm like your or the neighbor's pets.


True enough; hamburger & a live-trap would maybe be a better (passive) option.
 
2013-09-27 10:39:48 AM
Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."
 
2013-09-27 10:41:31 AM

jshine: JustGetItRight: jshine: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

If you wanted to kill them, rat poison & hamburger would probably take less work.

It would also kill a lot more than the target species - including many things you'd rather not harm like your or the neighbor's pets.

True enough; hamburger & a live-trap would maybe be a better (passive) option.


The problem:  Sometimes the neighbors pets get loose.  Putting out poisoned hamburger or a trap is a recipe for some very, very bad blood between you and your neighbors when Fluffy or Spot ends up dead.

I thought about that sort of thing when we had a coyote problem, and the risks just weren't worth it.
 
2013-09-27 10:41:52 AM
Anvils

/oblig.
 
2013-09-27 10:42:17 AM
Around the animals I keep... if a yote is seen it's: shoot, shovel, shutup.
 
2013-09-27 10:50:44 AM
Wow.  Fences and guard dogs.  My family has apparently been using cutting edge techniques for the last hundred years or so...

/We still shoot the bastards when the dogs and fences don't work
 
2013-09-27 10:51:04 AM

JustGetItRight: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

You must live in a relatively developed area where they come in close.  You're lucky to get within 75 yards of them around here so you need something that can reach out and touch someone.

.243, 22-250, or just use the deer rifle.


The problem is that in areas like mine (the edge between suburban and semi-rural), they can become habituated to humans, to the point where they won't run when you open the door and yell at them.

A bow is also effective.  I actually went actively bowhunting them in the "wetlands" behind the house.  And after decades of basically just hunting deer, rabbits, and squirrels, I learned that I'd been missing out.  Predator hunting is exciting.
 
2013-09-27 10:52:35 AM
Is it mean to hope that the 'yotes get my neighbors yappy little dog some night?
 
2013-09-27 10:53:30 AM

dittybopper: The problem is that in areas like mine (the edge between suburban and semi-rural), they can become habituated to humans, to the point where they won't run when you open the door and yell at them.


Yup.  We live on the edge of the Nat'l forest.  Those bastards slip inside our fence now and again, even with our dogs barking like mad.

dittybopper: A bow is also effective.


So I went this route, too - except crossbow.  I don't have the patience necessary to get really good at a regular bow, and the neighbors get ancy if I use my deer rifle near the houses.
 
2013-09-27 10:53:49 AM

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.


Shooting things is one of the cheapest ways to manange this type of wildlife (and profitable for the state wildlife agencies).  It is not that we reject any other form.  If you want to go buy 4 or 5 Great Pyranese for 500 each and that much in dog food per month, feel free.
 
2013-09-27 10:57:52 AM

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."


In my *ACTUAL* experience, meaning I've done this, hunting pressure is effective in keeping them away from residential areas.

It's been about 4 years now that we haven't had a coyote problem in our area.  Oh, they're out there in the woods, and we can hear them occasionally at night, but they don't come around our backyards like they used to.

The problem was, prior to taking action, the coyotes in this area were getting pretty brazen because they didn't have anything to fear.  They'd saunter through the yards in broad daylight, without worrying about the occasional noisy two-legged creatures.

Now, they have a reason to give those creatures a wide berth.

I expect that at some time, after the "memory" of a few years ago has died out in the local 'yote population, they'll get brazen again, and I'll have to teach them again.

In the mean time, they stay where they belong, in the woods, and I'm OK with that.
 
2013-09-27 10:59:03 AM
I haven't seen them but I'm pretty sure we have coyotes. Woke up one morning to find a tunnel painted on the side of my house.
 
2013-09-27 10:59:17 AM

JustGetItRight: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

You must live in a relatively developed area where they come in close.  You're lucky to get within 75 yards of them around here so you need something that can reach out and touch someone.

.243, 22-250, or just use the deer rifle.


Coyote disposal is actually an arena in which the AR-15 excels; getting 200+ yards with .223 is pretty easy, and it's powerful enough to get the job done without spending 75¢+/rd.
 
2013-09-27 11:03:04 AM

dittybopper: In the mean time, they stay where they belong, in the woods, and I'm OK with that.


For most of the population, that is perfectly fine.  For the ranchers, they obviously tend to be a little more proactive. That being said, around here, coyotes don't bother the cows too much, and the wolves are much more of a headach to ranchers.  Fences and guard animials are not quite as efffective on wolves as they are on the yotes.

Also, don't forget that a good coyote pelt can bring in 50 or 60 bucks during a decent fur year.
 
2013-09-27 11:03:39 AM

Uisce Beatha: dittybopper: A bow is also effective.

So I went this route, too - except crossbow.  I don't have the patience necessary to get really good at a regular bow, and the neighbors get ancy if I use my deer rifle near the houses.


Well, it helps if they obligingly stroll around the archery range in your backyard:

i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-09-27 11:04:46 AM

stevarooni: Coyote disposal is actually an arena in which the AR-15 excels; getting 200+ yards with .223 is pretty easy, and it's powerful enough to get the job done without spending 75¢+/rd.


Correct, plus many fur hunters love the .223 since you don't typically have to sow as much pelt back together.
 
2013-09-27 11:05:35 AM

dittybopper: jshine: JustGetItRight: jshine: dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.

If you wanted to kill them, rat poison & hamburger would probably take less work.

It would also kill a lot more than the target species - including many things you'd rather not harm like your or the neighbor's pets.

True enough; hamburger & a live-trap would maybe be a better (passive) option.

The problem:  Sometimes the neighbors pets get loose.  Putting out poisoned hamburger or a trap is a recipe for some very, very bad blood between you and your neighbors when Fluffy or Spot ends up dead.

I thought about that sort of thing when we had a coyote problem, and the risks just weren't worth it.



Well, unless it's -20 out (or you don't check the trap very often), a live-trap should do just what its name implies -- keep the critter (whatever it is) alive until you can see what it is and deal with it appropriately.
 
2013-09-27 11:06:51 AM

dittybopper: The problem:  Sometimes the neighbors pets get loose.  Putting out poisoned hamburger or a trap is a recipe for some very, very bad blood between you and your neighbors when Fluffy or Spot ends up dead.

I thought about that sort of thing when we had a coyote problem, and the risks just weren't worth it.


If neighbors pets are getting out with coyotes around, they are just as likely to get killed by the coyotes as poison.  Coyotes love domestic animals, generally speaking because they know they are all but defenseless.  Lots of stories around here of coyotes hopping fences, grabbing fluffy and hopping back out.

In fact, I saw an article a few years ago about a coyote hunter who used a stuffed Snoopy as a decoy when calling them in, with excellent results.
 
2013-09-27 11:07:30 AM
I was outside my house last night smoking and I heard what sounded like 3+ coyotes howling and some neighborhood dogs barking their heads off.  Trust that I am vigilante when I let out our schnauzer-mix out at night to go to the bathroom.
 
2013-09-27 11:19:10 AM

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."


This is a good example of why I have you favorited as a "drooling moron."
 
2013-09-27 11:24:21 AM

Carousel Beast: jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."

This is a good example of why I have you favorited as a "drooling moron."


Sounds like you're a good prospect to favorite as one to me, along with the rest of the drooling hate in this thread.
 
2013-09-27 11:31:14 AM

dittybopper: The problem is that in areas like mine (the edge between suburban and semi-rural), they can become habituated to humans, to the point where they won't run when you open the door and yell at them.


That's what I figured.  We're semi-rural to rural but are they're actually starting to get bolder around here.  Used to never see one in the day or up close but this spring I killed one on my mom's land with my Ruger Security-six .357.  Just stood there and let me get 30 yards or so away.

jso2897: Vainly thought there was a chance to get into this thread before the first idiot who rejects any form of wildlife management that doesn't involve shooting things.
I must have been dreaming.
RTFA, morons - killing them just puts up a "vacancy" sign, and even more of them come. Lunkheads have been shooting them for centuries, and there are more of them than ever. To put it in language you might be able to grasp if you are sober: "Boom-boom way no work. Gotta try something else."


I'd bet you'll find most of those posting here have a great deal of experience in dealing with wildlife.  You'd note that nobody says that fences and guard animals don't work.  Further, unlike what the story suggest are they not anything new.  I come from a family of dairy farmers and grew up working on one.  People have been putting donkeys in with their cattle to protect from predators as long as I've been alive and well before coyotes had any kind of a presence in central Alabama.

Having said that, read bopper's post about them not even running.  When an individual predator animals become a threat to your family or property (and one that no longer fears you is a threat whether or not it has acted out) unless you've go a national forest to relocate them on the only solution is to eliminate the threat in a fashion that ensures it will not return - and a rifle will readily accomplish that goal.
 
2013-09-27 11:31:39 AM

SwiftFox: along with the rest of the drooling hate in this thread.


I don't see much hate outside of jso2897.  Just mostly a discussion on various management and tactical methods of controlling coyotes.  You may not like the discussion, but it is intellectually dishonest to lable it as hate.
 
2013-09-27 11:35:43 AM
cheapest ammo i have is 7.62x54R. makes a mess of them from a Mosin....
 
2013-09-27 11:40:19 AM
I wish we had more coyotes in our area.  Way too many "outdoor" cats running around getting into trouble. Of course my bigger hope would be that they learn how to open fence gates to take out the couple shiatty little barking dogs that some of the neighbors keep.
 
2013-09-27 11:42:00 AM
Marin County problems.
 
2013-09-27 11:42:52 AM
Native American saying of yore:  "Never trust a coyote".

Coyotes will generally win in a fight with most dogs, because dogs fight for dominance, but coyotes fight to kill.  Except for large dogs, coyotes see dogs as food.  The same with cats.  And in recent years there has been half a dozen cases of coyotes attacking infants out in the open, even in fenced yards.  Coyotes have been known to go over an 8' fence to get a small dog, and carry it back over the fence.

The great ability of coyotes comes from a "tactical sense".  They will plot and carry out a scheme, not just act on impulse.  Two or even three have been seen to work together.  For example, coyotes have figured out that when they see a human walking a small dog on a leash, they can sneak up behind them and "purse snatch" the small dog.  If a large dog chases one, it may run into an ambush with two coyotes "double-teaming" it.

This is different from wolves, that use "practiced strategy" with assigned roles and signals among an entire pack.  Wolves are far more intelligent than coyotes, in some cases with the estimated intelligence of a 5 year old human child, and wolves will generally kill coyotes when they encounter them.

However, in recent years, for unknown reasons, in the eastern US, there has been several sightings of "Coy-Wolves", a hybrid of coyotes and wolves.  The US Department of the Interior has designated these animals as so dangerous that they should be shot on sight.  A hunter described them as "the canine equivalent of a leopard", as far as being potentially dangerous.  Coyote-dog and Wolf-dog hybrids are far less dangerous.

A Coy-Wolf.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-27 11:43:55 AM

Subtle_Canary: cheapest ammo i have is 7.62x54R. makes a mess of them from a Mosin....


Yeah, you can still find it at 18¢/rd sometimes, and it is very effective.  It's almost sacrilegious, but there's even a replacement stock system with a removable magazine for the Mosin-Nagant that'd let me use a scope for a tidge more accuracy at range (with my aging eyes).
 
2013-09-27 11:44:58 AM
Won't work. Most Americans are not as smart as coyotes.

(damn sure not as clever as raccoons)
 
2013-09-27 11:45:27 AM
I will pass the dinky suggestion along to my friend. He has lost 30 goats to coyote in the last season. 1/4 of his stock. Do donkys and goats get along.
 
2013-09-27 11:48:38 AM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: along with the rest of the drooling hate in this thread.

I don't see much hate outside of jso2897.  Just mostly a discussion on various management and tactical methods of controlling coyotes.  You may not like the discussion, but it is intellectually dishonest to lable it as hate.


In response to an article about how to live with the presence of coyotes while avoiding as much of that unnecessary bloodshed as trouble, post after post advocating that they be killed summarily whenever possible, whether they are animals causing problems or merely suspected as a future cause because they are coyotes? This doesn't indicate an intense or passionate dislike for coyotes?
 
2013-09-27 11:52:52 AM
Stop being delicious?

/dnrtfa
 
2013-09-27 11:55:42 AM

orclover: I will pass the dinky suggestion along to my friend. He has lost 30 goats to coyote in the last season. 1/4 of his stock. Do donkys and goats get along.


Apparently so, yep! (Care2.com)
 
2013-09-27 11:56:56 AM
However, in recent years, for unknown reasons, 
A Coy-Wolf.

[i.imgur.com image 403x300]


Oh I think we know the reasons, horny wolves!
 
2013-09-27 11:59:21 AM
I live in a very large city in Canada, 3+ million people, and on the edge of my neighbourhood there is a very large urban park, 400 acres with lots of wildlife, mostly squirrels and chipmunks. There are also coyotes living there who often come right into where the houses are. One New Year's eve in the afternoon we were tobogganing with our kids at their school, when a coyote strolled/ambled right beside us, down a laneway and across a busy street, I'm guessing to get to the nearby river. We caught it on video, it's the weirdest thing. And a few times the following spring, a family of coyotes came over from the park and hung out on the field at the bottom of the school hill. The students weren't allowed to go down the hill, but could stay at the top of the hill until the coyotes left. Another time, I was waiting in my car for my kids to come out for lunch, when I saw a large dog come up the hill I was parked beside and stand there and look around. Took me a second to realize it was actually a coyote. It's so odd to see coyotes in the middle of a large city, but considering how big the park is I shouldn't be surprised. There are signs all over the park telling people that "a fed coyote is a dead coyote", I guess because some people are stupid enough to think that you should actually feed a coyote, like it's a squirrel or something. There is also a little zoo in the park and at one time they kept a couple of Anatolian sheep dogs in the deer pen. Of course, this was also in an effort to keep people from killing and taking the deer to eat.
 
2013-09-27 12:02:06 PM
I find laying off the Guatemalan insanity peppers keeps the giant space coyotes at bay.
 
2013-09-27 12:05:09 PM

SwiftFox: HeadLever: SwiftFox: along with the rest of the drooling hate in this thread.

I don't see much hate outside of jso2897.  Just mostly a discussion on various management and tactical methods of controlling coyotes.  You may not like the discussion, but it is intellectually dishonest to lable it as hate.

In response to an article about how to live with the presence of coyotes while avoiding as much of that unnecessary bloodshed as trouble, post after post advocating that they be killed summarily whenever possible, whether they are animals causing problems or merely suspected as a future cause because they are coyotes? This doesn't indicate an intense or passionate dislike for coyotes?


It has nothing whatsoever to do with hate. Coyotes act like coyotes. It's foolish to expect an animal to act in any way not according with its instincts.

Personally, I love coyotes. They're beautiful, fascinating animals. But they're also a pest species that can occasionally be dangerous to humans, and the most efficient way to deal with one in your neighborhood is to get rid of it. If you live in the city, by all means, call animal control (but know they're probably going to euthanize it); in more rural areas, you trap or preferably shoot them. There may be more effective long-term means of managing the species as a whole, but on an individual basis a varmint rifle works really well.

Anyone talking about "unnecessary bloodshed" in the context of nonhuman animals (with possible exception of critically-endangered species, dolphins, and the higher primates) is being a bleeding-heart.
 
2013-09-27 12:10:11 PM

orclover: I will pass the dinky suggestion along to my friend. He has lost 30 goats to coyote in the last season. 1/4 of his stock. Do donkys and goats get along.


##############################################

Yes - they get along quite well and pairing a donkey or two with a heard of goats works very, very well.

Donkeys will absolutly go psycho on any type of canine they can get a hold of....We are talking red eyed, over the top, cartoon like psycho.  Then they spend the next 6 hours pounding the remaining chunks of carcass into the ground.  They take a big ole piss on the end result before they go an take a nap.

I am surprized there aren't more youtube videos of this.  It is really something to see.
 
2013-09-27 12:10:11 PM

blunttrauma: dittybopper: The problem:  Sometimes the neighbors pets get loose.  Putting out poisoned hamburger or a trap is a recipe for some very, very bad blood between you and your neighbors when Fluffy or Spot ends up dead.

I thought about that sort of thing when we had a coyote problem, and the risks just weren't worth it.

If neighbors pets are getting out with coyotes around, they are just as likely to get killed by the coyotes as poison.  Coyotes love domestic animals, generally speaking because they know they are all but defenseless.  Lots of stories around here of coyotes hopping fences, grabbing fluffy and hopping back out.

In fact, I saw an article a few years ago about a coyote hunter who used a stuffed Snoopy as a decoy when calling them in, with excellent results.


One of my neighbors at that time, since moved, had several larger, active dogs that would occasionally get loose.  A 35 lb coyote isn't going to try to attack a 60 lb lab mix.

Now, as much as I jokingly called him and his wife "Sonsabiatches Bumpasses" jokingly under my breath, I didn't want his dogs to eat poisoned burger or to get caught in the leg hold traps I have.
 
2013-09-27 12:10:18 PM

SwiftFox: This doesn't indicate an intense or passionate dislike for coyotes?


Not necessarily.  It can just be a rational urge to protect property in the cheapest way possible.  I don't have any passionate dislike for coyotes.  They are what they are.  The ones that live out in the woods away from humans are predators that really don't bother anyone.  The ones that hang around people during the winter are a 50 dollar bill hiding in the sagebrush waiting to test your markmanship.  The ones that hang around ranches are potential livestock killers.
 
2013-09-27 12:10:28 PM

ginkor: Native American saying of yore:  "Never trust a coyote".


Reference?

Coyotes will generally win in a fight with most dogs, because dogs fight for dominance, but coyotes fight to kill.  Except for large dogs, coyotes see dogs as food.  The same with cats.  And in recent years there has been half a dozen cases of coyotes attacking infants out in the open, even in fenced yards.  Coyotes have been known to go over an 8' fence to get a small dog, and carry it back over the fence.

No, coyotes generally fight to defend their territory, pack members, and themselves. They avoid causing actual injury, or risking it themselves. Interactions with dogs which involve coyotes with lowered heads and tails indicate submission.

The great ability of coyotes comes from a "tactical sense".  They will plot and carry out a scheme, not just act on impulse.  Two or even three have been seen to work together.  For example, coyotes have figured out that when they see a human walking a small dog on a leash, they can sneak up behind them and "purse snatch" the small dog.  If a large dog chases one, it may run into an ambush with two coyotes "double-teaming" it.

Reference?

This is different from wolves, that use "practiced strategy" with assigned roles and signals among an entire pack.  Wolves are far more intelligent than coyotes, in some cases with the estimated intelligence of a 5 year old human child, and wolves will generally kill coyotes when they encounter them.

However, in recent years, for unknown reasons, in the eastern US, there has been several sightings of "Coy-Wolves", a hybrid of coyotes and wolves.  The US Department of the Interior has designated these animals as so dangerous that they should be shot on sight.


O Rly? Reference?

A hunter described them as "the canine equivalent of a leopard", as far as being potentially dangerous.  Coyote-dog and Wolf-dog hybrids are far less dangerous.

A Coy-Wolf.


ooh, scary. Also nothing new in the world, and never having shown a single scrap of these terrible qualities you describe.
 
2013-09-27 12:12:07 PM

dittybopper: I didn't see .22 LR subsonic low noise hollow point ammunition listed, which I've found to be quite effective.


Don't forget a trench shovel to give them a shallow grave.
 
2013-09-27 12:13:05 PM

There's Always A Bloody Ghost: I live in a very large city in Canada, 3+ million people


There are 3+ million people in Canada?
 
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