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(NPR)   Changes in wheat don't explain the bizarre rise in celiac disease, and it may be that some people are just a gluten for punishment   (npr.org) divider line 202
    More: PSA, food chemistry, Green Revolution, joint pain, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, wheat, hygiene hypothesis, United States Department of Agriculture, punishments  
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8720 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2013 at 3:33 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-26 11:49:14 PM
It could just be self-diagnosis, or doctors' awareness of the condition.  Autism rates exploded after Rain Man, and they show no signs of letting up.
 
2013-09-27 12:05:56 AM
a host of other common ailments including "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux," he says.

awesomebmovies.com

Is that anything like brain cloud?
 
2013-09-27 12:07:43 AM
I heard this on PBS this afternoon, and that doctor's rant immediately made me think: "Yeah... suddenly after thousands of years wheat is the worst thing you can eat, and you felt better because you didn't eat wheat anymore. That's all you got?"

/fad diet doctors with books to sell
//fuggem
 
2013-09-27 12:21:19 AM
Always mistrust any book written by a Dr. Usually there are 2 problems: 1) they write about things they aren't experts on. Why is this doofus writing a book on diet when he's a cardiologist and not a gastroenterologist? 2) Doctors aren't scientists. They think they are. Some actually are, but it's something you have to be a doctor running a research lab and/or an MD/PhD in order to claim you are a scientist, usually. I have 2 friends, one is an ophthalmologist and one is a pediatrician. The optho has a lab and writes papers. The ped fixes kids. She's a moron when it comes to science.
 
2013-09-27 12:54:39 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: The ped fixes kids. She's a moron when it comes to science.


Well, she's a woman.

img690.imageshack.us
 
2013-09-27 01:09:39 AM
Gluten-free sells, it sells big.  People are really stupid.  End of story.
 
2013-09-27 02:04:36 AM
FTFA: His theory is that modern varieties of wheat are to blame. He says the wheat of yesteryear didn't make people sick.

I get the arguments against that, after thousands of years, why would it suddenly be an issue?  But look at the symptoms described in the article: Type 2 diabetes, as well as a host of other common ailments including "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux,"  And when he stopped eating wheat, those symptoms went away.  Maybe it coincidence, maybe he's just convincing himself of a difference.

But what if it isn't hypochondria but rather that they're thinking about it in the wrong way?  What if those symptoms have been occurring for thousands of years?  I mean, general health has been going up, not down.  I have no doubt that our ancestors experienced "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux"  What if they just didn't know that it was wheat that was causing their problems?  I mean, we're talking about people that blamed illness on the four humors.  So only now, after doing this to ourselves as a species for 11,000 years.  Sure, it made it easy to feed a lot of people, but what if there are those among us who are simply not able to handle it?

It's like when you have something stop hurting that has been causing issues so long, you didn't even realize any more that it was there.

Hell, I used to laugh at the lactose intolerant, I went through three or four gallons of milk a week.  Now?  Hell, I get any dairy and you don't want to be near me the next day.  Thing is, I was always that way, I just didn't realize until I stopped drinking milk why I was such a fart machine.
 
2013-09-27 02:16:18 AM
They lost me at acid reflux.  Good, old GERD.  It was the disease of the week.  Now, it's celiacs.  Seriously?  I'm going big with my trendy hypochondria.  I have a terminal addiction to Breaking Bad.  Will someone please set up a PayPal site on my behalf?
 
2013-09-27 02:30:45 AM
White people's diseases.
 
2013-09-27 02:40:09 AM

MorrisBird: Gluten-free sells, it sells big.  People are really stupid.  End of story.


1% of Americans have celiac. Another 4% self-diagnose with undiagnosable "gluten sensitivity."

30% of Americans say they're "trying to cut down" on gluten, as if it's a cumulative health risk like cholesterol or fat, rather than something more along the lines of a peanut allergy that affects specific people with a specific disease.

Behold the power of marketing.

/Bought GLUTEN FREE! mustard and bacon this week. That's right. Bacon with a huge "GLUTEN FREE!" label on it.
 
2013-09-27 02:41:50 AM

MorrisBird: They lost me at acid reflux.  Good, old GERD.  It was the disease of the week.  Now, it's celiacs.  Seriously?  I'm going big with my trendy hypochondria.  I have a terminal addiction to Breaking Bad.  Will someone please set up a PayPal site on my behalf?


I remember when Lactaid first hit the market, and everyone was suddenly lactose intolerant, too.
 
2013-09-27 02:44:27 AM
Davis' drastic views on the ills of wheat were shaped by his own personal experience. Twenty-five years ago, he had Type 2 diabetes, as well as a host of other common ailments including "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux," he says.
But after he stopped eating wheat, he says, his health improved.



I'll take confirmation bias for $1000 Alex.
 
2013-09-27 02:56:18 AM

timujin: FTFA: His theory is that modern varieties of wheat are to blame. He says the wheat of yesteryear didn't make people sick.

I get the arguments against that, after thousands of years, why would it suddenly be an issue?  But look at the symptoms described in the article: Type 2 diabetes, as well as a host of other common ailments including "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux,"  And when he stopped eating wheat, those symptoms went away.  Maybe it coincidence, maybe he's just convincing himself of a difference.

But what if it isn't hypochondria but rather that they're thinking about it in the wrong way?  What if those symptoms have been occurring for thousands of years?  I mean, general health has been going up, not down.  I have no doubt that our ancestors experienced "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux"  What if they just didn't know that it was wheat that was causing their problems?  I mean, we're talking about people that blamed illness on the four humors.  So only now, after doing this to ourselves as a species for 11,000 years.  Sure, it made it easy to feed a lot of people, but what if there are those among us who are simply not able to handle it?

It's like when you have something stop hurting that has been causing issues so long, you didn't even realize any more that it was there.

Hell, I used to laugh at the lactose intolerant, I went through three or four gallons of milk a week.  Now?  Hell, I get any dairy and you don't want to be near me the next day.  Thing is, I was always that way, I just didn't realize until I stopped drinking milk why I was such a fart machine.


mind fog, mood swings, joint pains, and acid reflux can be side effects of being fat
 
2013-09-27 03:05:54 AM

timujin: FTFA: His theory is that modern varieties of wheat are to blame. He says the wheat of yesteryear didn't make people sick.

I get the arguments against that, after thousands of years, why would it suddenly be an issue?  But look at the symptoms described in the article: Type 2 diabetes, as well as a host of other common ailments including "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux,"  And when he stopped eating wheat, those symptoms went away.  Maybe it coincidence, maybe he's just convincing himself of a difference.

But what if it isn't hypochondria but rather that they're thinking about it in the wrong way?  What if those symptoms have been occurring for thousands of years?  I mean, general health has been going up, not down.  I have no doubt that our ancestors experienced "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux"  What if they just didn't know that it was wheat that was causing their problems?  I mean, we're talking about people that blamed illness on the four humors.  So only now, after doing this to ourselves as a species for 11,000 years.  Sure, it made it easy to feed a lot of people, but what if there are those among us who are simply not able to handle it?

It's like when you have something stop hurting that has been causing issues so long, you didn't even realize any more that it was there.

Hell, I used to laugh at the lactose intolerant, I went through three or four gallons of milk a week.  Now?  Hell, I get any dairy and you don't want to be near me the next day.  Thing is, I was always that way, I just didn't realize until I stopped drinking milk why I was such a fart machine.


if only there was a way to test this idea...some sort of "method"...
 
2013-09-27 03:20:58 AM

timujin: But what if it isn't hypochondria but rather that they're thinking about it in the wrong way?  What if those symptoms have been occurring for thousands of years?  I mean, general health has been going up, not down.  I have no doubt that our ancestors experienced "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux"  What if they just didn't know that it was wheat that was causing their problems?


People for thousands of years have been harvesting wheat, but they haven't been living on it every day for all of that time. In some regions corn was more of a staple. At different times of the year, they'd switch to heavy intake of fruits or meat as opportunity allowed. Processing wheat into food is a lot of work, and gluten was not isolated and used as a thickening agent in ancient home cookin'.

People would have noticed a familial inability to eat wheat when they switched back and forth to different staples at different times of the year or when travelling.
 
2013-09-27 03:37:09 AM

timujin: FTFA: His theory is that modern varieties of wheat are to blame. He says the wheat of yesteryear didn't make people sick.

I get the arguments against that, after thousands of years, why would it suddenly be an issue?  But look at the symptoms described in the article: Type 2 diabetes, as well as a host of other common ailments including "mind fog, mood swings, joint pains and acid reflux,"  And when he stopped eating wheat, those symptoms went away.


Well, let's see. If he stopped eating flour, he probably stopped eating cookies, cakes, donuts... yeah, I can see how that would benefit a Type 2 diabetic.
 
2013-09-27 03:40:16 AM

Nogale: Well, let's see. If he stopped eating flour, he probably stopped eating cookies, cakes, donuts... yeah, I can see how that would benefit a Type 2 diabetic.


"bacon double cheese burger? sorry. There's gluten in the bun, and that's bad for you."
 
2013-09-27 03:45:16 AM
Wow, lotta people unwilling to comprehend science in this thread. I'm sure AIDS is just a made up thing too. If it wasn't diagnosed in my grandaddy's day, it can't possibly be a real thing, right?
 
2013-09-27 03:50:20 AM
Borderline/possible celiac here, and IDGAF if you think it's real or fake, all I know is HOLY shiat THEY SELL GLUTEN FREE shiat EVERYWHERE NOW, IT'S LIKE A PARADISE! COOKIES THAT TASTE LIKE COOKIES!!!

/Had a yeast roll yesterday
//Look 7 months pregnant today
///worth iiiiiiiitttttt
 
2013-09-27 03:54:20 AM

Blue_Blazer: lotta people unwilling to comprehend science in this thread.


what science?
 
2013-09-27 03:56:03 AM

Fell In Love With a Chair: Borderline/possible celiac here, and IDGAF if you think it's real or fake, all I know is HOLY shiat THEY SELL GLUTEN FREE shiat EVERYWHERE NOW, IT'S LIKE A PARADISE! COOKIES THAT TASTE LIKE COOKIES!!!


Peanut allergies are real, too, yet I don't see "PEANUT FREE!" labels on my bacon, and I don't see marketers trying to manipulate people who don't have peanut allergies into cutting down on peanuts in their diet.
 
2013-09-27 03:56:45 AM

Blue_Blazer: Wow, lotta people unwilling to comprehend science in this thread. I'm sure AIDS is just a made up thing too. If it wasn't diagnosed in my grandaddy's day, it can't possibly be a real thing, right?

I think its more that fact that a very small percentage of people are actually harmed by gluten. They are real, and gluten-free products were produced so they could eat  without worrying. However, some idiot saw these, and decided since the product intentionally said it had no gluten, gluten must be bad. Get enough of these idiots, and here we are today.


The same thing happens with other things in other places too. Some study in Russia linked soy to sterility, so now farking everything for sale (if it's on the more expensive end) is labeled as having no soy. Of course, these are the same people who think a woman will become infertile if she sits on a cold bench or the ground, so they are a bit paranoid about it
 
2013-09-27 03:57:45 AM
For those of you who think quitting bread for a couple of days is enough to avoid wheat, well...

Check the labels of the food you eat. Wheat's in practically everything. Soy sauce? Made with wheat. Hot dogs? Have gluten. Salad dressing? Gluten. Potato chips? Sushi? Deli meat? Gluten, gluten, gluten.

Boxed rice, french fries, soup ... It's pretty much everywhere.

My wife had skin issues that suddenly went away when she cut gluten. It's really hard to actually get food that's gluten free. If you're the kind to make your own food from scratch it's easier, but almost any "processed" food will be dusted in wheat-based powder for various reasons.

Look out for:
• Artificial color
• Caramel coloring
• Hydrolyzed protein, plant protein, vegetable protein
• Dextrin
• Modified food starch
• Natural flavors, flavoring and juices
• Spice blends
• Smoke flavoring
• Stabilizers
• Emulsifiers

All of these may indicate gluten.
 
2013-09-27 03:58:27 AM
Or maybe it's like the rise of autism: people get more shiat diagnosed than ever before
 
2013-09-27 03:59:37 AM

Bonanza Jellybean: Or maybe it's like the rise of autism: people get more shiat diagnosed than ever before


perhaps I should read the initial comment before posting
 
2013-09-27 04:00:23 AM
Well, people have wondering why we suddenly hear so much about peanut allergies, etc. lately, and whether it's a real increase or just increased awareness or etc.

My pet hypothesis (by which I do indeed mean a speculative guess without adequate evidentiary support as of yet) is the hygiene hypothesis - since we're all vaccinated against all the real diseases these days, our immune systems supposedly are left looking for something to do all day, so they start treating more innocuous substances as threats.
 
2013-09-27 04:00:31 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: White people's diseases.


I hear it happens more often to the Irish... so yeah, white people disease.

Go eat some cabbage and taters, and it'll be all fine
 
2013-09-27 04:01:21 AM
"Nonetheless, with a growing number of people claiming they feel better without wheat, Davis says there's something going on here."

This is the problem with these so called doctors who write books, most don't know wtf they're talking about and their mostly concerned with selling their book. Anytime people make a major lifestyle change, things will seem to be getting better, it's mostly psycho semantic, similar to the placebo effect. There's also the fact that wheat accounts for most of the carbohydrates in our diet, high carb consumption can make you sluggish and tired, so cutting back will naturally make you feel more energetic.
 
2013-09-27 04:02:12 AM
There's no better debunking of Wheat Belly than http://noglutennoproblem.blogspot.com/2012/03/wheat-belly-busted.html
As for the increase in celiac disease, it should be obvious that it's not an increase in the disease but in detection and survival. If you had it 60 years ago, you probably died.
 
2013-09-27 04:03:24 AM

StopLurkListen: Check the labels of the food you eat. Wheat's in practically everything. Soy sauce? Made with wheat. Hot dogs? Have gluten. Salad dressing? Gluten. Potato chips? Sushi? Deli meat? Gluten, gluten, gluten.


A sane society would put the "gluten-free" declaration on the ingredients label, not a tri-color font inside of a spiked yellow star that's the same size as the brand name on the front of the label.

One of those is consumer information. The other is marketing to idiots.
 
2013-09-27 04:04:21 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Fell In Love With a Chair: Borderline/possible celiac here, and IDGAF if you think it's real or fake, all I know is HOLY shiat THEY SELL GLUTEN FREE shiat EVERYWHERE NOW, IT'S LIKE A PARADISE! COOKIES THAT TASTE LIKE COOKIES!!!

Peanut allergies are real, too, yet I don't see "PEANUT FREE!" labels on my bacon, and I don't see marketers trying to manipulate people who don't have peanut allergies into cutting down on peanuts in their diet.


I think that it's definitely overhyped. My asshole roomate eats my gluten free stuff I make for myself all the time without asking because "gluten free is codeword for tasty!" fark that, usually it's gritty and dense and disgusting, but I also don't want to be covered in hives and writhing on the floor trying not to shiat myself for a day.  I really don't get the hype, I'm just happy I'm not sick for the first time in years and years.
 
2013-09-27 04:04:21 AM

ReapTheChaos: psycho semantic


I ... what?
 
2013-09-27 04:06:21 AM
People often think they must be wheat intolerant if they stop eating it and they lose weight and are 'less bloated'. Without stopping to think that a)it's a carb, so yeah... if you don't fully replace it you will lose weight if you cut it out, and b)anyone would feel bloated after 8 pieces of toast, which, oh look, you're not eating anymore
 
2013-09-27 04:07:07 AM

StopLurkListen: ReapTheChaos: psycho semantic

I ... what?


It's just schematics.

/and a mute point
 
2013-09-27 04:11:38 AM

ReapTheChaos: "Nonetheless, with a growing number of people claiming they feel better without wheat, Davis says there's something going on here."

This is the problem with these so called doctors who write books, most don't know wtf they're talking about and their mostly concerned with selling their book. Anytime people make a major lifestyle change, things will seem to be getting better, it's mostly psycho semantic, similar to the placebo effect. There's also the fact that wheat accounts for most of the carbohydrates in our diet, high carb consumption can make you sluggish and tired, so cutting back will naturally make you feel more energetic.


Psycho-semantic...

Is that like beating someone to death with a dictionary?

Psychosomatic...
 
2013-09-27 04:16:28 AM
brianwelk.files.wordpress.com


Boris: 'Wheat... lots of wheat... fields of wheat... a tremendous amount of wheat... '
 
2013-09-27 04:19:06 AM
I'm not a celiac sufferer, I doubt I even have gluten sensitivity. But I just plain feel better mentally and physically when I don't eat products made from wheat. When I eat wheat heavy meals, like pizza, or yeast rolls with chicken and dumplings, or garlic bread and spaghetti, I just feel like a bloated zombie. I can't concentrate, my digestive system runs too fast, I'm crampy, I'm moody. It's like being stuck in permanent PMS with the runs.

Anecdotally, I've noticed that Wheat Montana products doesn't have nearly the same effect that mass produced flour products do. I'm not sure how their wheat is different, but it is. So I tend to load up on their products while on vacation driving through Montana and use their flour to make my own bread, noodles, dumplings, cookies, etc at home for my family.
 
2013-09-27 04:25:42 AM

Poowaddins: Anecdotally, I've noticed that Wheat Montana products doesn't have nearly the same effect that mass produced flour products do. I'm not sure how their wheat is different, but it is. So I tend to load up on their products while on vacation driving through Montana and use their flour to make my own bread, noodles, dumplings, cookies, etc at home for my family.


This post brought to you by the good folks at Wheat Montana. Wheat Montana, with "no highfalutin gluten*".

* product may contain gluten
 
2013-09-27 04:29:15 AM
Poowaddins:
Anecdotally, I've noticed that Wheat Montana products doesn't have nearly the same effect that mass produced flour products do. I'm not sure how their wheat is different, but it is. So I tend to load up on their products while on vacation driving through Montana and use their flour to make my own bread, noodles, dumplings, cookies, etc at home for my family.

I can easily believe that there is something different about the way that wheat is processed today vs. 40 years ago. Or there may be something different about storage and purity of the mass produced product. My guy has a histamine response to powdered garlic and onion, and to innumerable spices, but not to fresh garlic and onion. Odd. I wonder what's going on there. The ingredients don't list everything. They're not required to.

And I know it's been said before, but yes, cutting excess carbs and actually thinking about what you eat makes most people feel better!
 
2013-09-27 04:30:09 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: White people's diseases.


"We got so much food in America we're allergic to food.   Allergic to food!  Hungry people ain't allergic to shiat.  You think anyone in Rwanda's got a farking lactose intolerance?!"
 
2013-09-27 04:33:18 AM

Mithiwithi: Well, people have wondering why we suddenly hear so much about peanut allergies, etc. lately, and whether it's a real increase or just increased awareness or etc.

My pet hypothesis (by which I do indeed mean a speculative guess without adequate evidentiary support as of yet) is the hygiene hypothesis - since we're all vaccinated against all the real diseases these days, our immune systems supposedly are left looking for something to do all day, so they start treating more innocuous substances as threats.


Knows how to keep his immune system busy:
content6.flixster.com
 
2013-09-27 04:40:55 AM
Celiac disease seems like the kind of thing I would just ignore if I had it.

Fine. My poop will have the texture of apple sauce forever. Better than the hassle of trying to go gluten-free.

Seriously.
 
2013-09-27 04:47:21 AM

I Am The Bishop Of East Anglia: ecmoRandomNumbers: White people's diseases.

"We got so much food in America we're allergic to food.   Allergic to food!  Hungry people ain't allergic to shiat.  You think anyone in Rwanda's got a farking lactose intolerance?!"


I remember an NPR interview years ago of long-term refugee camp residents somewhere in Africa (I forget specifics),
and this guy was complaining about the food,  "These peas give me gas. We cannot live like this."
So yes, hungry people have food intolerance too.
 
2013-09-27 04:50:41 AM

log_jammin: StopLurkListen: ReapTheChaos: psycho semantic

I ... what?

It's just schematics.

/and a mute point


-------

Back off, you two. I saw it first. It's MY new band name!!!
 
2013-09-27 04:51:36 AM
FTFA: ""Wheat is the most destructive thing you could put on your plate, no question," says William Davis, a cardiologist".

Yeah... much more dangerous than, say:
Cyanide
Motor Oil
Razor Blades
Destroying Angel Mushroom
Sulfuric Acid
etc.
 
2013-09-27 04:52:11 AM

I Am The Bishop Of East Anglia: ecmoRandomNumbers: White people's diseases.

"We got so much food in America we're allergic to food.   Allergic to food!  Hungry people ain't allergic to shiat.  You think anyone in Rwanda's got a farking lactose intolerance?!"


i see your point, but they're accustomed to a much harder life than we are, so if certain foods made them feel a bit shiat, I'd imagine they just man up and deal. we'd never hear about it

I doubt anyone with a really intolerant condition like coeliacs disease lasts long
 
2013-09-27 04:52:16 AM

MorrisBird: Gluten-free sells, it sells big.  People are really stupid.  End of story.


Well, at least stupid is serving a useful function by subsidizing actual Celiac patients.  It now only costs them twice as much as normal to eat in a way that doesn't kill them instead of ten times as much.

Trust me, people that have Celiac know it, it's not an "oh, my head feels foggy" condition, it's an "oh, I'm dead before age 25" condition.

Which... is also kind of the really, really obvious explanation for why cases have increased recently.  Because only since like the 1990s have adults with Celiac... existed, to any appreciable degree.  Death was pretty inevitable given the ubiquity of wheat products in standard foods and the fact that there wasn't really much to be done about that.  Making it to 30 or 40 with the disease used to be goddamned impressive, now it's pretty viable to live as long as anyone else.  New diagnoses have probably increased because the symptoms are better-known.

//There is no actual scientific support for gluten-free having any benefits beyond the ancillary one of losing weight more easily because it cuts a lot of heavy starches from your diet.  If you don't actually have Celiac, gluten is not a dietary issue for you at all.
 
2013-09-27 04:52:40 AM

doczoidberg: Celiac disease seems like the kind of thing I would just ignore if I had it.

Fine. My poop will have the texture of apple sauce forever. Better than the hassle of trying to go gluten-free.

Seriously.


I once had a friend try to convince me I was lactose intolerant because I would get gas after consuming certain dairy products. To each their own, but I'll be damned if I'm giving up an entire food group over a few farts.
 
2013-09-27 04:56:55 AM

ReapTheChaos: doczoidberg: Celiac disease seems like the kind of thing I would just ignore if I had it.

Fine. My poop will have the texture of apple sauce forever. Better than the hassle of trying to go gluten-free.

Seriously.

I once had a friend try to convince me I was lactose intolerant because I would get gas after consuming certain dairy products. To each their own, but I'll be damned if I'm giving up an entire food group over a few farts.


Same deal here with spicy foods. I don't give a shiat if capsaicin is supposed to be a chemical weapon deterrent for that plant; I'm eating that little sucker.
 
2013-09-27 04:57:41 AM

ReapTheChaos: doczoidberg: Celiac disease seems like the kind of thing I would just ignore if I had it.

Fine. My poop will have the texture of apple sauce forever. Better than the hassle of trying to go gluten-free.

Seriously.

I once had a friend try to convince me I was lactose intolerant because I would get gas after consuming certain dairy products. To each their own, but I'll be damned if I'm giving up an entire food group over a few farts.


Yep. Farting is a normal healthy biological process, with the bonus of being humorous.
 
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