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(Yahoo)   Bill Gates admits that the core design of one of the most basic functions of Windows was a mistake. Not, not that one. Not that one either. Or that one. Or that one. No, not that one either. Keep guessing, you'll get there eventually   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 121
    More: Obvious, Bill Gates, Windows  
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7021 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Sep 2013 at 8:48 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-26 07:45:16 PM
was it solitaire? I bet it was solitaire.
 
2013-09-26 07:51:36 PM
There is nothing wrong with combo keys
 
2013-09-26 08:03:06 PM

cman: There is nothing wrong with combo keys


I don't get why he thinks the reboot should have been one key you could accidenta
 
2013-09-26 08:20:23 PM

Triumph: cman: There is nothing wrong with combo keys

I don't get why he thinks the reboot should have been one key you could accidenta


i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-26 08:25:56 PM
I do tech support.

EVERYTHING

 
2013-09-26 08:28:32 PM

Triumph: cman: There is nothing wrong with combo keys

I don't get why he thinks the reboot should have been one key you could accidenta


All I know is that I am pissed that they no longer have the Turbo button IBM compatibles once had
 
2013-09-26 08:45:49 PM
I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.
 
2013-09-26 08:54:51 PM

BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.


I think that at the time, MS wanted a single combination for Login, Switch Users, Lock workstation, Restart, and to access certain admin tools (like Task Manager) so it sort of made sense.  Also not sure why various articles on this keep referring to it as a "two-hand combination"  At least on any modern keyboard, a person with normal sized hands should be able to enter it with just their right hand.
 
2013-09-26 08:59:39 PM

BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.


The combination meant 'reboot' long before it was 'login'.

As Bill tries to explain in the article, when they needed a login prompt, they wanted something that could not be, say, a photograph of a login prompt someone put up as a wallpaper/screensaver that then steals your password. It had to be something that went to windows and only to windows, and one of the few things that were that low to the ground was the power cycle controls. Therefore, the power cycle (reboot) key combo got re-purposed as the login combo.
 
2013-09-26 08:59:40 PM

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.

I think that at the time, MS wanted a single combination for Login, Switch Users, Lock workstation, Restart, and to access certain admin tools (like Task Manager) so it sort of made sense.  Also not sure why various articles on this keep referring to it as a "two-hand combination"  At least on any modern keyboard, a person with normal sized hands should be able to enter it with just their right hand.


None of those features you mention existed when ctr-alt-del was invented.
 
2013-09-26 09:02:44 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.

I think that at the time, MS wanted a single combination for Login, Switch Users, Lock workstation, Restart, and to access certain admin tools (like Task Manager) so it sort of made sense.  Also not sure why various articles on this keep referring to it as a "two-hand combination"  At least on any modern keyboard, a person with normal sized hands should be able to enter it with just their right hand.

None of those features you mention existed when ctr-alt-del was invented.


indeed. ludite
 
2013-09-26 09:04:13 PM
img802.imageshack.us

But Ctrl-Alt-Delete helps keep my computer secure, which is something people who use Windows are deeply concerned with.
 
2013-09-26 09:04:28 PM

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.

I think that at the time, MS wanted a single combination for Login, Switch Users, Lock workstation, Restart, and to access certain admin tools (like Task Manager) so it sort of made sense.  Also not sure why various articles on this keep referring to it as a "two-hand combination"  At least on any modern keyboard, a person with normal sized hands should be able to enter it with just their right hand.


I don't know about your computer, but my laptop will accept no other combination than left ctrl, left alt, and delete.
 
2013-09-26 09:07:10 PM
The bigger mistake was putting the Windows key between CTRL and ALT.

It's probably the Guinness record holder for key most often ripped off the keyboard in rage.
 
2013-09-26 09:07:32 PM
What pissed me off about that scumbag Gates was that he knew the "hard limit" of 512MB RAM in win98 was easily fixed, yet Microscum never released a patch.

A guy with an electronics shop in Long Island gave me a VM patch for $20 and I could run win98 with (I think I eventually was up to) 4GB.
 
2013-09-26 09:09:26 PM

Triumph: cman: There is nothing wrong with combo keys

I don't get why he thinks the reboot should have been one key you could accidenta


I bought a cheap Case Logic KD-600 keyboard while waiting for a keyboard replacement.

It had a "power" key right next to F12 (or maybe it was the "sleep" or "wake" key - I can't tell because I pried all 3 keys off).

Maybe the local drug-store was selling the KD-600 for $10 because nobody would intentionally buy such a stupid design.
 
2013-09-26 09:09:46 PM

cman: Triumph: cman: There is nothing wrong with combo keys

I don't get why he thinks the reboot should have been one key you could accidenta

All I know is that I am pissed that they no longer have the Turbo button IBM compatibles once had


I actually have a turbo button on my MSI gamer laptop. Overclocks the i7 and cranks up the fan, and it could seriously cook your thigh.
 
2013-09-26 09:10:48 PM
rlv.zcache.com
 
2013-09-26 09:11:34 PM

BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.


Security.  Ctrl-Alt-Del generates a non-maskable-interrupt.  It was introduced in NT 3.1 as bringing up the logon screen.  It guarantees that the OS is responding to the request not some app pretending to be the security dialog.

There's like a page an a half on the topic in the NT 3.5 resource kit.
 
2013-09-26 09:12:24 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger mistake was putting the Windows key between CTRL and ALT.

It's probably the Guinness record holder for key most often ripped off the keyboard in rage.


Heh....

Everyone at work wonders why I ripped off my F1 key. It's because I use AutoCAD and it's right beside ESC.

NOTHING pisses me off more than trying to hit ESC to cancel a command, then seeing the computer choke while it loads the help screen instead.

So no more F1 for me. Popped it out with a pen or something.
 
2013-09-26 09:13:03 PM
Only one?
 
2013-09-26 09:13:19 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger mistake was putting the Windows key between CTRL and ALT.

It's probably the Guinness record holder for key most often ripped off the keyboard in rage.


But the biggest mistake was using Ctrl-C as both copy and interrupt. No amount of ripping keys off your keyboard can fix that level of stupidity.
 
2013-09-26 09:16:37 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: [rlv.zcache.com image 324x324]



Quantum...what is this rainbow check you speak of??

preemptive multitasking before preemptive multitasking was cool....
 
2013-09-26 09:17:02 PM

Triumph: cman: There is nothing wrong with combo keys

I don't get why he thinks the reboot should have been one key you could accidenta


I remember when PC makers routinely put a bright red "reset" button on the front of the chassis.

I lost several hundred lines of code once because my friend's inquisitive two-year-old daughter wandered over and punched the button while we were working.

/Save early, save often.
 
2013-09-26 09:20:43 PM

BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.


I always thought it bizarre that they chose the universal reboot key combination as the screen unlock. I'm glad they did away with it finally. I still have users who don't get that you have to hold down ctrl and alt before you tap delete and they get frustrated.
 
2013-09-26 09:29:44 PM
I'm guessing the issue is in some part the difficulty with small hands. Mine can clear about an octave and a half on a full size piano keyboard.
 
2013-09-26 09:30:52 PM
Bill Gates had the look that he was going to kill David Bradley when he made the ctr-alt-del joke in that interview.
 
2013-09-26 09:32:15 PM

BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.


It's used as the login combo because it's snapped up by the kernel without ever being exposed to any application. If you press Ctrl-Alt-Del at a real login prompt you'll get the appropriate dialogue box. If you press Ctrl-Alt-Del at an application masquerading as a login prompt to fish for passwords you'll get task manager. After login it prevents any application from fully capturing user input to the point where it can't be released and the offending task terminated through the task manager.
 
2013-09-26 09:34:42 PM

MrEricSir: But the biggest mistake was using Ctrl-C as both copy and interrupt


Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-X were copied from the Mac command-key combos.

I still facepalm at the people who don't grasp how the same key combinations do the same thing in EVERY GODAM PROGRAM YOU MORONS!
 
2013-09-26 09:35:26 PM

MrEricSir: But the biggest mistake was using Ctrl-C as both copy and interrupt. No amount of ripping keys off your keyboard can fix that level of stupidity.


You can always use ctrl-insert for copy and shift-insert for paste (cut is shift-del).

That was a standard before ctrl-x/c/v came along and many programs still allow it today.
 
2013-09-26 09:35:45 PM

cman: Triumph: cman: There is nothing wrong with combo keys

I don't get why he thinks the reboot should have been one key you could accidenta

All I know is that I am pissed that they no longer have the Turbo button IBM compatibles once had


I hadn't thought of that first "ibm clone" we had for decades... what the heck did that button do?
 
2013-09-26 09:37:47 PM

tlchwi02: I hadn't thought of that first "ibm clone" we had for decades... what the heck did that button do?


Changed the clock speed of the CPU. You could slow it in case you had some old software that ran too fast, like games.

Imagine that, software than runs too fast...
 
2013-09-26 09:39:43 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: tlchwi02: I hadn't thought of that first "ibm clone" we had for decades... what the heck did that button do?

Changed the clock speed of the CPU. You could slow it in case you had some old software that ran too fast, like games.

Imagine that, software than runs too fast...


the mind literally boggles

/spent all day troubleshooting a slow OS issue
 
2013-09-26 09:40:39 PM
You know what else is a mistake? Mobile sites that don't let you resize to screen width. For fark's sake, Yahoo.
 
2013-09-26 09:48:13 PM

jaytkay: MrEricSir: But the biggest mistake was using Ctrl-C as both copy and interrupt

Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-X were copied from the Mac command-key combos.

I still facepalm at the people who don't grasp how the same key combinations do the same thing in EVERY GODAM PROGRAM YOU MORONS!


If you ever conduct an entire presentation using only keyboard commands, people look at you like you're a wizard.

/crappy laptop decided to lose all mouse and touchpad functionality.
 
2013-09-26 09:49:12 PM
dilbert.com
 
2013-09-26 09:49:16 PM

BizarreMan: I like Ctr-Alt-Del for reboot because you can't mistakenly hit it.  Like the IBM guy, I can't figure out why it was taken over as the login combo.


Sure twenty years ago.  But the damn combination is still around and should of been dead and buried a decade ago.  Proof once again that Microsoft can't do anything right with its OS.
 
2013-09-26 09:50:39 PM

tlchwi02: Quantum Apostrophe: tlchwi02: I hadn't thought of that first "ibm clone" we had for decades... what the heck did that button do?

Changed the clock speed of the CPU. You could slow it in case you had some old software that ran too fast, like games.

Imagine that, software than runs too fast...

the mind literally boggles

/spent all day troubleshooting a slow OS issue


just press the turbo button.  duh!

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-26 09:54:52 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger mistake was putting the Windows key between CTRL and ALT.

It's probably the Guinness record holder for key most often ripped off the keyboard in rage.

Heh....

Everyone at work wonders why I ripped off my F1 key. It's because I use AutoCAD and it's right beside ESC.

NOTHING pisses me off more than trying to hit ESC to cancel a command, then seeing the computer choke while it loads the help screen instead.

So no more F1 for me. Popped it out with a pen or something.


In the 25 years I've been using IBM PCs, I can't remember the last time a Help window was actually helpful. I imagine the people the Help screen is trying to help probably couldn't find the F1 key with a magnifying glass.
 
2013-09-26 09:56:39 PM
HELLLLOOOOO - No "any" key on the keyboard?!  WTF?  Keyboard manufacturers have had decades to incorporate this.  They just want to save the $0.0003 in extra plastic to boost their profit margins.

/study it out.
 
2013-09-26 09:57:29 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-26 10:00:04 PM

libranoelrose: [i.imgur.com image 640x480]


Wow that brings back memories.
 
2013-09-26 10:11:21 PM
There was already one button you could trip to reset your computer - the *reset* button that was prominently placed on the front of most desktop cases back in the day.
 
2013-09-26 10:11:44 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: libranoelrose: [i.imgur.com image 640x480]

Wow that brings back memories.


You think that brings back memories? Try this
 
2013-09-26 10:13:35 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: What pissed me off about that scumbag Gates was that he knew the "hard limit" of 512MB RAM in win98 was easily fixed, yet Microscum never released a patch.

A guy with an electronics shop in Long Island gave me a VM patch for $20 and I could run win98 with (I think I eventually was up to) 4GB.


You can fix that by changing the vcache size in system.ini.  I don't know why you would possibly need 4GB of RAM in a Windows 98 machine, though.
 
2013-09-26 10:18:48 PM

jaytkay: MrEricSir: But the biggest mistake was using Ctrl-C as both copy and interrupt

Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-X were copied from the Mac command-key combos.

I still facepalm at the people who don't grasp how the same key combinations do the same thing in EVERY GODAM PROGRAM YOU MORONS!


Even emacs? (Yes, I know there's a setting for that)
 
2013-09-26 10:22:43 PM

Lsherm: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: What pissed me off about that scumbag Gates was that he knew the "hard limit" of 512MB RAM in win98 was easily fixed, yet Microscum never released a patch.

A guy with an electronics shop in Long Island gave me a VM patch for $20 and I could run win98 with (I think I eventually was up to) 4GB.

You can fix that by changing the vcache size in system.ini.  I don't know why you would possibly need 4GB of RAM in a Windows 98 machine, though.


No. Dicking with vcache maybe gets you up to 768MB. You can't go beyond that because there was a hard limit in - not a "VM", I forget the name, one of those thingies that Windows runs to manage memory.

And I wanted more RAM to make Sims 2 run better. Or maybe one of those other games that uses heavy resources that I didn't want to buy a whole new computer just to play.

So with the memory patch I ran 98 until I think 2010.
 
2013-09-26 10:28:57 PM

MrEricSir: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger mistake was putting the Windows key between CTRL and ALT.

It's probably the Guinness record holder for key most often ripped off the keyboard in rage.

But the biggest mistake was using Ctrl-C as both copy and interrupt. No amount of ripping keys off your keyboard can fix that level of stupidity.


I miss my Sparc 20 keyboard with its dedicated Cut/Copy/Paste buttons.
 
2013-09-26 10:30:26 PM
If they're talking about keyboard design, what about the glaring lack of an "ANY" key?
 
2013-09-26 10:33:08 PM

Lsherm: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: What pissed me off about that scumbag Gates was that he knew the "hard limit" of 512MB RAM in win98 was easily fixed, yet Microscum never released a patch.

A guy with an electronics shop in Long Island gave me a VM patch for $20 and I could run win98 with (I think I eventually was up to) 4GB.

You can fix that by changing the vcache size in system.ini.  I don't know why you would possibly need 4GB of RAM in a Windows 98 machine, though.


I remember the problem -

When you boot 98, I think the virtual memory manager tries to snag some memory for itself.

In 98, if you set vcache to >1GB, the VMM takes the entirety of your memory for itself, and you somehow get a "no memory installed" error on boot.

Whatever the details, it was starkly similar to the old "nobody will ever need more than 640k of RAM" of the good old days. Dumb coding error, a guy with a shop in Long Island wrote a patch to fix it, Microsoft never wanted to patch it themselves.
 
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