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(RYOT.org)   Student forgets pocket knife in his pocket, turns it in to security voluntarily at a football game with letter of explanation and apology. Of course the principal uses this as an opportunity to show that honesty is the best policy, right?   (ryot.org) divider line 200
    More: Asinine, David Schaffner, principals, honesty, KDKA, students, pockets, explanations, security  
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16187 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Sep 2013 at 4:18 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-26 02:52:06 PM
Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.
 
2013-09-26 02:57:05 PM
I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance.
 
2013-09-26 02:58:03 PM

SurfaceTension: Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.


You mean the administrator's desire to save on insurance premiums.  You can buy a policy these days to cover just about anything.
 
2013-09-26 03:00:41 PM
So remember here kids - the lesson is that we punish the innocent just as harshly as the guilty. So really there is no advantage for being honest. The only way to avoid punishment is to lie.
 
2013-09-26 03:02:13 PM

SurfaceTension: Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.


No, the insurance company doesn't. Stupidity demands zero tolerance. The principal didn't have to say anything. He could have quietly told the kid "good job" and it all would have went away. But he didn't. It was the principal's PERSONAL decision to do what he did, and for that, he's a cock.
 
2013-09-26 03:03:39 PM
Zero tolerance = Zero intelligence
 
2013-09-26 03:06:31 PM
Best course of action? Shut the hell up and don't draw attention to yourself. He should've gone back to his car and put it in the glovebox and if didn't have a car then he should have just kept it in his pocket, not taken it out, and kept his mouth shut.

There's no lying there and no lack of honesty, maybe a lack of moral obligation...
 
2013-09-26 03:08:49 PM

rezin8: SurfaceTension: Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.

No, the insurance company doesn't. Stupidity demands zero tolerance. The principal didn't have to say anything. He could have quietly told the kid "good job" and it all would have went away. But he didn't. It was the principal's PERSONAL decision to do what he did, and for that, he's a cock.


I disagree. The principal is teaching the students a very important lesson here...it's that modern institutions don't care about honor or conscience. Concepts such as guilt or innocence are irrelevant. The ONLY things that matter are the all powerful, all important Rules. So if you break a rule and don't get caught then you done good. If you break a rule and get caught...it dosent matter what your intent was....you'll be punished regardless.

So we should encourage kids to lie and cheat the system. There is no advantage to behaving, or being good, or following the spirit of a rule.
 
2013-09-26 03:13:44 PM
That's a pretty pansy-ass knife for a "hunter" to have at his tree stand.
 
2013-09-26 03:15:12 PM
"To me it sends a message... that you probably shouldn't be honest," he said, "because you're going to get punished."

That is a very good lesson. For example: you should never talk to the police under any circumstance. Especially if you are innocent. Just don't do it. Nobody is obligated to give anyone any breaks under any circumstances ever.
 
2013-09-26 03:19:53 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: "To me it sends a message... that you probably shouldn't be honest," he said, "because you're going to get punished."

That is a very good lesson. For example: you should never talk to the police under any circumstance. Especially if you are innocent. Just don't do it. Nobody is obligated to give anyone any breaks under any circumstances ever.


^ Very much this.  If you must talk to a policeman, your lawyer must be present.  Must be.  No exceptions.  And never say more words than you have to, even if it appears to be highly awkward from a social standpoint.  Cops are masters at getting you to talk.

Just think of every word out of your mouth as another nail in your coffin, and you might be OK.
 
2013-09-26 03:27:35 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-26 03:28:05 PM

Marcus Aurelius: ^ Very much this.  If you must talk to a policeman, your lawyer must be present.  Must be.  No exceptions.  And never say more words than you have to, even if it appears to be highly awkward from a social standpoint.  Cops are masters at getting you to talk.

Just think of every word out of your mouth as another nail in your coffin, and you might be OK.


In this case the kid did something very stupid. He trusted those in positions of authority to "do the right thing" -they have no such obligation.
 
2013-09-26 03:57:19 PM

RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 627x312]


To be fair, their principle of no tolerance immediatly removed David from the game...
 
2013-09-26 04:00:09 PM
He was caught sayof.
 
2013-09-26 04:06:01 PM
But rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning to distrust authority?
 
2013-09-26 04:21:52 PM
Probably the decision of the school board to assume zero-tolerance, not the principal.
 
2013-09-26 04:21:57 PM
And here I thought tolerance was a good thing?
 
2013-09-26 04:22:17 PM
You guys totally deserve this because you keep putting idiots in charge, and then you agree to their ridiculous policies. There's far more outrage for minor words in an Apple EULA than there is over these retarded zero tolerance policies.
 
2013-09-26 04:23:02 PM
I did this in high school. '98 or so in So, OC. only consequence was that the only way to get the knife back was for a parent to pick it up from the Sheriff's office.
The lesson learned was to keep one's big mouth shut.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-09-26 04:23:11 PM
Coulda been worse

www.startrek.com
 
2013-09-26 04:23:32 PM
I have zero tolerance about threads regarding zero tolerance.
 
2013-09-26 04:23:33 PM

Weaver95: rezin8: SurfaceTension: Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.

No, the insurance company doesn't. Stupidity demands zero tolerance. The principal didn't have to say anything. He could have quietly told the kid "good job" and it all would have went away. But he didn't. It was the principal's PERSONAL decision to do what he did, and for that, he's a cock.

I disagree. The principal is teaching the students a very important lesson here...it's that modern institutions don't care about honor or conscience. Concepts such as guilt or innocence are irrelevant. The ONLY things that matter are the all powerful, all important Rules. So if you break a rule and don't get caught then you done good. If you break a rule and get caught...it dosent matter what your intent was....you'll be punished regardless.

So we should encourage kids to lie and cheat the system. There is no advantage to behaving, or being good, or following the spirit of a rule.


Define advantage.
 
2013-09-26 04:23:40 PM

Marcus Aurelius: your lawyer must be present.


I hear this all the time.

I can count on two fingers the number of lawyers I've even met, and I certainly don't "have" a lawyer.

What do you do then, Google some random law-talking-guy?
 
2013-09-26 04:23:54 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: But rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning to distrust authority?


Keep your head down and your mouth shut -- I knew that even when went to high school (late 90's), and I see no sign that the situation has improved.
 
2013-09-26 04:24:13 PM
My little sister got expelled in 7th grade for something similar - forgot she had a paint scraper with a razor in it in her backpack after going to help at a friend's house with a painting project, took it to school, and took it out and offered it to a teacher when she remembered. Of course, my sister also had a history of drug related suspensions, so really it was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It still struck me as profoundly stupid at the time, that they didn't expel her for drug use or possession, but booted her out for having a paint scraper in her bag.
 
2013-09-26 04:24:41 PM

netweavr: Weaver95: rezin8: SurfaceTension: Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.

No, the insurance company doesn't. Stupidity demands zero tolerance. The principal didn't have to say anything. He could have quietly told the kid "good job" and it all would have went away. But he didn't. It was the principal's PERSONAL decision to do what he did, and for that, he's a cock.

I disagree. The principal is teaching the students a very important lesson here...it's that modern institutions don't care about honor or conscience. Concepts such as guilt or innocence are irrelevant. The ONLY things that matter are the all powerful, all important Rules. So if you break a rule and don't get caught then you done good. If you break a rule and get caught...it dosent matter what your intent was....you'll be punished regardless.

So we should encourage kids to lie and cheat the system. There is no advantage to behaving, or being good, or following the spirit of a rule.

Define advantage.


Graduating
 
2013-09-26 04:25:41 PM

Calmamity: Marcus Aurelius: your lawyer must be present.

I hear this all the time.

I can count on two fingers the number of lawyers I've even met, and I certainly don't "have" a lawyer.

What do you do then, Google some random law-talking-guy?


Seriously? They're like weed. If you can't find any, you probably aren't even trying.
 
2013-09-26 04:25:52 PM
Principal is a giant douche-pistol.
 
2013-09-26 04:26:11 PM

Calmamity: Marcus Aurelius: your lawyer must be present.

I hear this all the time.

I can count on two fingers the number of lawyers I've even met, and I certainly don't "have" a lawyer.

What do you do then, Google some random law-talking-guy?



In a school situation like TFA: just keep your mouth shut and ask to talk to your parents (who can do the proper research regarding a lawyer from wherever they are).  Say nothing to any administrator; he/she is not your friend.
 
2013-09-26 04:26:18 PM

Pocket Ninja: That's a pretty pansy-ass knife for a "hunter" to have at his tree stand.


Dundee.jpg
 
2013-09-26 04:27:30 PM
I think the lesson here is don't bring banned objects (weapons) to school.

Seems as simple as that.
 
2013-09-26 04:28:22 PM

Weaver95: So remember here kids - the lesson is that we punish the innocent just as harshly as the guilty. So really there is no advantage for being honest. The only way to avoid punishment is to lie.


And I'm reading "Origins of Totalitarianism." It's more than just a little frightening.

/reading it per another Farker's recommendation during the Greatest Filibuster That Never Was.
 
2013-09-26 04:28:32 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: I did this in high school. '98 or so in So, OC. only consequence was that the only way to get the knife back was for a parent to pick it up from the Sheriff's office.
The lesson learned was to keep one's big mouth shut.


I did this in 5th grade.

No one cared.

I'm old.
 
2013-09-26 04:28:36 PM

Eugoogoolizer: Pocket Ninja: That's a pretty pansy-ass knife for a "hunter" to have at his tree stand.

Dundee.jpg


SweeneyTodd.jpg

Care for a shave?
 
2013-09-26 04:28:40 PM

Pocket Ninja: That's a pretty pansy-ass knife for a "hunter" to have at his tree stand.


It's a utility knife, the kind you use to do jury-rig repairs on your car, open packages, I guess cut small tree limbs when you're out camping since that's the example the father used, that kind of shiat.  They used to be called "pen knives" in the early part of the last century because one of their major uses used to be cutting quills and clearing dried ink from metal pens.

It's not part of the knife set used for dressing game.   Generally speaking, hunting knives aren't the kind of thing that you'll forget you have in your pocket, they typically are fairly large and don't fold.
 
2013-09-26 04:28:48 PM

Weaver95: netweavr: Weaver95: rezin8: SurfaceTension: Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.

No, the insurance company doesn't. Stupidity demands zero tolerance. The principal didn't have to say anything. He could have quietly told the kid "good job" and it all would have went away. But he didn't. It was the principal's PERSONAL decision to do what he did, and for that, he's a cock.

I disagree. The principal is teaching the students a very important lesson here...it's that modern institutions don't care about honor or conscience. Concepts such as guilt or innocence are irrelevant. The ONLY things that matter are the all powerful, all important Rules. So if you break a rule and don't get caught then you done good. If you break a rule and get caught...it dosent matter what your intent was....you'll be punished regardless.

So we should encourage kids to lie and cheat the system. There is no advantage to behaving, or being good, or following the spirit of a rule.

Define advantage.

Graduating


The student will still graduate.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-09-26 04:29:35 PM

Calmamity: Marcus Aurelius: your lawyer must be present.

I hear this all the time.

I can count on two fingers the number of lawyers I've even met, and I certainly don't "have" a lawyer.

What do you do then, Google some random law-talking-guy?


Lionel Hutz
 
2013-09-26 04:31:04 PM

scottydoesntknow: Calmamity: Marcus Aurelius: your lawyer must be present.

I hear this all the time.

I can count on two fingers the number of lawyers I've even met, and I certainly don't "have" a lawyer.

What do you do then, Google some random law-talking-guy?

Seriously? They're like weed. If you can't find any, you probably aren't even trying.


How to cold-call a lawyer
 
2013-09-26 04:31:06 PM
My HS history teacher took a knife off of me when I was being stupid one day after lunch.  He gave it back to me after school.

/CSB
 
2013-09-26 04:32:47 PM

rezin8: SurfaceTension: Insurance. It's the school districts' insurance that demands zero tolerance. Remember that.

No, the insurance company doesn't. Stupidity demands zero tolerance. The principal didn't have to say anything. He could have quietly told the kid "good job" and it all would have went away. But he didn't. It was the principal's PERSONAL decision to do what he did, and for that, he's a cock.


The root of zero tolerance is actually that the way schools used to handle things was considered "racist" in that white kids never seemed to get expelled while the minorities got expelled at higher rates.  That actual story behind all of that is that when Junior got in trouble the Principal would call the parents to have a discussion.  White parents kind of knew what to say, how to agree, how to feign shock, and pledge to make sure it never happened again.  Minority parents were harder to get to come to schools (60%+ out of wedlock kids), did not know how to agree with the administrators, so kid is expelled

Solution, no discretion, just expel them all.
 
2013-09-26 04:32:47 PM
Schaffner's father also expressed his outrage. "To me it sends a message... that you probably shouldn't be honest," he said, "because you're going to get punished."

One of the truest statements ever made
 
2013-09-26 04:33:37 PM

scottydoesntknow: Seriously? They're like weed. If you can't find any, you probably aren't even trying.


Well, no, I'm not trying. I'm not trying because I'm not sitting in a police interview room.

I'm asking what those of us who don't have a murder of lawyers on retainer should do if we happen to find ourselves in the police interview room for whatever reason (excepting reasons where you might be appointed an attorney, I suppose)

jshine: In a school situation like TFA


Not really the situation I'm asking about, but thanks (that wasn't sarcastic).

I went to high school in the 80's and I carried a knife every damn day, even though I could have been suspended for it.

Know how I got away with it? I didn't fu*king mention it.
 
2013-09-26 04:33:54 PM
HE DID NOT BRING IT TO THE GAME!!!
he brought it to the security office.

/if he was my kid i would be happy with what he did.
//next time (doubtful) he and anyone else should keep it because of this
 
2013-09-26 04:34:02 PM

jmr61: I think the lesson here is don't bring banned objects (weapons) to school.

Seems as simple as that.


Welp! Thread over! No more point to this as jmr61 has just made the most profound statement possible.
 
2013-09-26 04:34:11 PM

Calmamity: Marcus Aurelius: your lawyer must be present.

I hear this all the time.

I can count on two fingers the number of lawyers I've even met, and I certainly don't "have" a lawyer.

What do you do then, Google some random law-talking-guy?


Better call Saul.
 
2013-09-26 04:34:30 PM
The article seems a little one-sided.
 
2013-09-26 04:35:07 PM
I have a knife almost exactly like that one in TFA in my purse at all times. If the kid had the intention of doing something wrong with it, would he have turned it in? No. It's a tad bit bulky, so maybe he was afraid someone would see it and think he did have the intent of hurting someone.

The principal is a douche.
 
2013-09-26 04:35:38 PM
My high school had a gun club and a rifle range in the basement.

You can play on my lawn.
 
2013-09-26 04:36:40 PM
If this kid had gone to to Catholic high school he would have learned that being honest gets you nothing but yelling following by a spanking.

"Why yes, it makes perfect sense that we eat the actual flesh of a dead son of god, flesh that just happens to look like a tiny flat cookie."

Instead, you learn to say:

"How long would you like my essay on why Jesus loves me to be?" while packing in as many bald-faced, obsequious lies as possible.
 
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