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(Salon)   Male-gazing, heteronormative, rape-culturing dudebros aren't too keen on feminists for some reason   (salon.com) divider line 418
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10002 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Sep 2013 at 1:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-26 12:43:08 PM  
Because activists tend to be attention whores who don't actually know much about what they are protesting or advocating?
 
2013-09-26 12:48:39 PM  
Article: People react negatively to aggressive activists of all stripes.

Headline: trollerific buzzwords to the max, yo
 
2013-09-26 12:51:36 PM  
Hmmmmmm I wonder why?
 
2013-09-26 12:54:58 PM  
I don't support equal rights for women because womyn in Ithaca dont shave their legs.

Makes total sense.
 
2013-09-26 12:59:19 PM  
Article:  People have internalized the negative stereotypes of activists so deeply that they let it affect their critical thinking about the underlying issues

This thread: yup
 
2013-09-26 01:02:48 PM  

shifty lookin bleeder: Article:  People have internalized the negative stereotypes of activists so deeply that they let it affect their critical thinking about the underlying issues

This thread: yup


Or People realized that most activist do not have a clear understanding of the facts and thus are less likely to go a long with them.
 
2013-09-26 01:04:31 PM  
No one is key on feminists.
Because it's best to be a humanist.

Feminists put women on pedestals.
 
2013-09-26 01:06:55 PM  

vudukungfu: No one is key on feminists.
Because it's best to be a humanist.

Feminists put women on pedestals.


Its easier for women to clean the top of the refrigerator when they are up on pedestals.
 
2013-09-26 01:09:20 PM  

vudukungfu: No one is key on feminists.
Because it's best to be a humanist.

Feminists put women on pedestals.


It is clear you are a paid shill for the patriarchy. Want equal rights for all people. What the hell is wrong with you?
 
2013-09-26 01:10:41 PM  
I'm not clicking on Salon, anybody have a summary?
 
2013-09-26 01:13:33 PM  

Fark It: I'm not clicking on Salon, anybody have a summary?


Sure:

"Muhhh... buhhffffffffthpppttt... HERPHERPHERP... guhuhuhuhuhuhu... *fart*"
 
2013-09-26 01:25:37 PM  

Fark It: I'm not clicking on Salon, anybody have a summary?


26.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-26 01:28:05 PM  

vpb: Because activists tend to be attention whores who don't actually know much about what they are protesting or advocating?


This.

There are tons of people who think protest only "works" if they disrupt shiat or piss people off.

Somehow making a spectacle of yourself and then crying when you get negative attention has become more important than getting your message out in a manner in which people will care about it.
 
2013-09-26 01:29:14 PM  
I can see this happening.  In a culture where we get a lot of our information from the interwebby it is the most extreme wharblegarble that get the most attention.   Moderate or even remotely reasonable positions tend to get drowned out so everything ends up being some combination of wildmisrepresentational parody, a minimalist distillation of the most derpy extremes.
 
2013-09-26 01:31:02 PM  

comhcinc: Or People realized that most activist do not have a clear understanding of the facts and thus are less likely to go a long with them.


The findings of the research are that the factual understanding of a particular issue matters less than stereotype held for the messenger.  Regardless of how one feels about activists, if the stereotype for the messenger is affecting how he judges the factual nature of the message, that's a result of piss poor critical thinking skills.
 
2013-09-26 01:38:35 PM  
Dude at party: "What's up babes?!"
Womynist1: "Pack up your rape culture and take a hike!"
Dude at party: (holds up beer) You want a brewdog?
Womynist1: "We're not interested in your penis!"
Womynist2: "Wait...I think he's offering us a beer..."  (talking slowly) "Uh...yes...we would like a beer."
Dude at party: "Okay!" (happily heads off to get beer)
Womynist1: "So, it's like, if you're nice to them, they bring you things?"
Womynist2: "Exactly."
 
2013-09-26 01:41:44 PM  

liam76: vpb: Because activists tend to be attention whores who don't actually know much about what they are protesting or advocating?

This.

There are tons of people who think protest only "works" if they disrupt shiat or piss people off.

Somehow making a spectacle of yourself and then crying when you get negative attention has become more important than getting your message out in a manner in which people will care about it.


I think a lot of this came out of people's perceptions of the Civil Rights movement. During the Birmingham sit ins, the black protestors made their point by simply attending segregated lunch counters, and refusing to leave even when violently persecuted. This is effective protesting, where you (symbolically) attack the heart of the matter. The same goes for Ghandi's salt march, where civil disobedience was acted out nonviolently to protest unjust British taxes.

Idiots think the response to protest is the important part, and thus seek to create the most vocal opposition possible by means of whatever asshattery is available to them. Attack the source of the problem as best you can identify it- and if you don't get any resistance you're probably not in the right place.
 
2013-09-26 01:57:32 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: liam76: vpb: Because activists tend to be attention whores who don't actually know much about what they are protesting or advocating?

This.

There are tons of people who think protest only "works" if they disrupt shiat or piss people off.

Somehow making a spectacle of yourself and then crying when you get negative attention has become more important than getting your message out in a manner in which people will care about it.

I think a lot of this came out of people's perceptions of the Civil Rights movement. During the Birmingham sit ins, the black protestors made their point by simply attending segregated lunch counters, and refusing to leave even when violently persecuted. This is effective protesting, where you (symbolically) attack the heart of the matter. The same goes for Ghandi's salt march, where civil disobedience was acted out nonviolently to protest unjust British taxes.

Idiots think the response to protest is the important part, and thus seek to create the most vocal opposition possible by means of whatever asshattery is available to them. Attack the source of the problem as best you can identify it- and if you don't get any resistance you're probably not in the right place.


Yeah.

They fail to grasp that the getting arrested was important becasue they were protesting that they weren't allowed to do that (be black and sit in front, be black and eat in a "white" restaurant", etc), and they wanted that policy to be put on trial.
 
2013-09-26 01:58:51 PM  
I try to keep my life free of pathological liars, too.
 
2013-09-26 01:59:54 PM  

vudukungfu: No one is key on feminists.
Because it's best to be a humanist.

Feminists put women on pedestals.


So... you have no idea what "humanism" or "feminism" are?
 
2013-09-26 02:00:11 PM  
Yes, we call that the Walter Sobchak effect.


/"No Walter, you're not wrong, you're just an asshole!"
 
2013-09-26 02:01:55 PM  

UberDave: Dude at party: "What's up babes?!"
Womynist1: "Pack up your rape culture and take a hike!"
Dude at party: (holds up beer) You want a brewdog?
Womynist1: "We're not interested in your penis!"
Womynist2: "Wait...I think he's offering us a beer..."  (talking slowly) "Uh...yes...we would like a beer."
Dude at party: "Okay!" (happily heads off to get beer)
Womynist1: "So, it's like, if you're nice to them, they bring you things?"
Womynist2: "Exactly."


Yep, that movie sure had some straw-feminists in it.  Glad you noticed how dumb they were.

http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=341
 
2013-09-26 02:02:55 PM  

vudukungfu: No one is key on feminists.
Because it's best to be a humanist.

Feminists put women on pedestals.


Do you mean "keen on"?

Not sure what being humanist has to do with not being feminist. In fact, I'm guessing most humanists are feminists.
 
2013-09-26 02:03:03 PM  

vpb: Because activists tend to be attention whores who don't actually know much about what they are protesting or advocating?


More precisely, because they tend to protest things that are definitely wrong in some places (women's rights in the third world), transpose them to their own familiar comfort zone (a woman's rights to not be confronted with a man who uses too much legroom in public transport), and get all angry when people confront them with the disproportionality of the comparison.
 
2013-09-26 02:03:22 PM  

vudukungfu: No one is key on feminists.
Because it's best to be a humanist.

Feminists put women on pedestals.


Yes, let's solve 100% of the problems by focusing on 50% of the population.  Brilliant!
 
2013-09-26 02:03:58 PM  

ikanreed: So... you have no idea what "humanism" or "feminism" are?


Yeah, Humanists feel that all people should have equal rights.
Feminists feel that chocolate should flow freely from faucets and shoes should be free while they get paid to take a year off to make babbies and write about how the penis is evil.
 
2013-09-26 02:04:14 PM  

Lifeless: I try to keep my life free of pathological liars, too.


I see you've met my ex.
 
2013-09-26 02:04:34 PM  
Don't bro me if you don't know me.
 
2013-09-26 02:04:38 PM  
The feminists are hated because they've created an environment where men are presumed guilty, and if proven innocent, fark them they're still guilty.  Just look at the new guidelines for sexual harassment and assault in our universities.  If you are accused, you are guilty.  There is no need for evidence.  You will be kicked out of school.
 
2013-09-26 02:04:42 PM  
Misogyny: Boys will be boys. Bygones. Just joking, why can't you take a joke?
Objections to misogyny: Man-hating biatch, professional complainer, League of Ugly Stupid Lesbian Misandrists
 
2013-09-26 02:06:05 PM  
If they'd quit coming up with terms and phrases like "cisnormative" and "check your privilege" I'd be more kindly disposed. Also, though only slightly related, "trigger warnings" are farking ridiculous.
 
2013-09-26 02:06:56 PM  
Well actually....oh look at the time, better get back to work!

Is "male-gazing dudebro" like "gay for pay?"
 
2013-09-26 02:07:04 PM  
Meh..I'm not in the mood to hate men today. Also I question the validity of a mechanical Turk survey.
 
2013-09-26 02:07:09 PM  
You lost me with "heteronormative".
 
2013-09-26 02:07:17 PM  

vudukungfu: ikanreed: So... you have no idea what "humanism" or "feminism" are?

Yeah, Humanists feel that all people should have equal rights.
Feminists feel that chocolate should flow freely from faucets and shoes should be free while they get paid to take a year off to make babbies and write about how the penis is evil.


Vudukungfu: Redifining words to make the people you hate more hatable!  Excellent job.
 
2013-09-26 02:07:54 PM  
I thought people generally don't like activitists because for most of the last 30 years it was uncool to be passionate about something other than making music, love or money. Also, we don't like people who remind us that we're being self-centered.

Someone on Fark, a few months ago, told me about the "New Sincerity" to explain why grown men are fans of My Little Pony. You'd think that if this New Sincerity thing sticks around, more people will accept idealist activists.

I also think there was some heavy-duty negative characterizing of idealist activitist by those who sway the "Get a Brain, Morans" crowd. Seems to have been some low-hanging fruit.
 
2013-09-26 02:08:13 PM  

UberDave: Dude at party: "What's up babes?!"
Womynist1: "Pack up your rape culture and take a hike!"
Dude at party: (holds up beer) You want a brewdog?
Womynist1: "We're not interested in your penis!"
Womynist2: "Wait...I think he's offering us a beer..."  (talking slowly) "Uh...yes...we would like a beer."
Dude at party: "Okay!" (happily heads off to get beer)
Womynist1: "So, it's like, if you're nice to them, they bring you things?"
Womynist2: "Exactly."


Womynist2 should be renamed simply "Woman".  From what I remember from the movie, the radical feminists were trying to recruit her, but she never went along with their narrow minded agenda.
 
2013-09-26 02:09:02 PM  

Witness99: Well actually....oh look at the time, better get back to work!

Is "male-gazing dudebro" like "gay for pay?"


They're just referencing the idea of fiction(usually movies, but sometimes games these days) having a "male gaze", where male characters tend to be seen in full profile or close-up on the face, whereas women tend to be shot from the breasts up when talking.
 
2013-09-26 02:09:07 PM  

OgreMagi: The feminists

as I imagine them are hated because they've created an environment as I imagine it where men are presumed guilty, and if proven innocent, fark them they're still guilty.  Just look at the new guidelines for sexual harassment as I imagine them and assault in our universities.  If you are accused, you are guilty as I imagine it.  There is no need for evidence as I imagine it.  You will be kicked out of school as I imagine it.
 
2013-09-26 02:09:08 PM  

vudukungfu: ikanreed: So... you have no idea what "humanism" or "feminism" are?

Yeah, Humanists feel that all people should have equal rights.
Feminists feel that chocolate should flow freely from faucets and shoes should be free while they get paid to take a year off to make babbies and write about how the penis is evil.



So... you have no idea what "humanism" or "feminism" are.
 
2013-09-26 02:09:40 PM  
I'm wondering what rights men have in Western societies that women don't.

But my issue with many feminists is that they seem to have a low opinion of other women. They're treated as innocent victims, unable to make the right choices, and who can't be held accountable for decisions they have made.

This is interesting some insight: http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction
 
2013-09-26 02:10:08 PM  
TFA kinda points out the obvious. Lots of people tend to be moderate (and even reasonable) on most topics and are repelled by extremism.
 
2013-09-26 02:12:45 PM  

ikanreed: Yep, that movie sure had some straw-feminists every PC group in it. Glad you noticed how dumb they were


It was making fun of tons of groups.
 
2013-09-26 02:13:11 PM  
could someone explain the headline to me like I'm five
 
2013-09-26 02:14:08 PM  

KawaiiNot: Also I question the validity of a mechanical Turk survey.


Mechanical Turks are done for reward - I'm sure most people just tossed in free associated words they thought were good enough answers to get through and get paid.
 
2013-09-26 02:14:10 PM  

liam76: ikanreed: Yep, that movie sure had some straw-feminists every PC group in it. Glad you noticed how dumb they were

It was making fun of tons of groups.


Sure, it was just the feminists that personally antagonized the perfectly reasonable protagonist on purpose.
 
2013-09-26 02:14:41 PM  
I'd have more respect for most feminists if most hadn't turned into blind mice during the Clinton administration.  That was a definite tactical error.
 
2013-09-26 02:14:53 PM  
Because people hate being called names.

/great headline, subby.
 
2013-09-26 02:15:13 PM  
So if this is the case why not just use it instead to further your goal? Want to promote solar power just hire a bunch of dirty, unshaven people to be activists AGAINST solar power
 
2013-09-26 02:15:49 PM  

comhcinc: shifty lookin bleeder: Article:  People have internalized the negative stereotypes of activists so deeply that they let it affect their critical thinking about the underlying issues

This thread: yup

Or People realized that most activist do not have a clear understanding of the facts and thus are less likely to go a long with them.


Also they tend to have taken on a "us vs. them" mentality that skews their objectivity to any new information.
 
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