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(Sports Illustrated)   Utah HS football coach suspends entire team after reports of skipping class, cyberbullying classmates: "We must earn the opportunity to have the honor to put on our high school jerseys each Thursday and Friday night"   (tracking.si.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, Utah HS, Utah, truancies, Deseret News  
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1459 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Sep 2013 at 5:42 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-25 03:50:30 PM  
Good.
 
2013-09-25 03:57:07 PM  
Excellent.
 
2013-09-25 03:57:53 PM  
Well, I'd prefer they only suspend the guilty, but he's right about the earning the jersey and the privilege to play varsity sports.
 
2013-09-25 03:59:42 PM  
Hero? That shiat'd get ya hanged in Texas.
 
2013-09-25 04:02:52 PM  

comhcinc: Good.

 
2013-09-25 04:21:54 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Hero? That shiat'd get ya hanged in Texas.


The one in Colorado who acted similarly got death threats.
 
2013-09-25 04:24:36 PM  

Diogenes: Uranus Is Huge!: Hero? That shiat'd get ya hanged in Texas.

The one in Colorado who acted similarly got death threats.


Thus.......Hero. Doing what is right when there is no benefit to you.
 
2013-09-25 04:57:00 PM  

basemetal: Well, I'd prefer they only suspend the guilty, but he's right about the earning the jersey and the privilege to play varsity sports.


At that level in that particular dynamic I think it is appropriate. Peer pressure and all that. I didn't read the article, but I'm guessing there is enough players involved to make that decision.
 
2013-09-25 05:04:07 PM  

comhcinc: Diogenes: Uranus Is Huge!: Hero?

....Hero. Doing what is right when there is no benefit to you.


Coach looks like a hero, including in this more detailed version that makes clear he got most of the parents on board, but there are some troubling aspects.

1.  Collective punishment.  Some students said things online that the coach thought were bullying.  Some  skipped classes.  All were disciplined.  Not clear what the alleged bullying remarks were.  Students have 1st Amendment rights as against a public school district, even in Utah.

2.  Regulation of off-campus behavior and speech.  Public schools at all grade levels are trying to extend their reach to regulate more off-campus behavior.  Coach's actions are in line with that.  Principal approves.

3.  Coach may have been punishing the team for getting clobbered 40-16 in their last outing.

I get that football coaches try to run the team like a military unit to get that level of commitment and discipline from the players.  He wants to beat em down and then build em back up like boot camp.  But there is another way to look at this story.
 
2013-09-25 05:18:35 PM  
4tehsnowflakes:
3.  Coach may have been punishing the team for getting clobbered 40-16 in their last outing.

That was my thought as well. Would he have done the same if they'd won and had aspirations of winning state or local championships? I'd like to believe so, but who knows.
 
2013-09-25 05:20:26 PM  

4tehsnowflakes: comhcinc: Diogenes: Uranus Is Huge!: Hero?

....Hero. Doing what is right when there is no benefit to you.

Coach looks like a hero, including in this more detailed version that makes clear he got most of the parents on board, but there are some troubling aspects.

1.  Collective punishment.  Some students said things online that the coach thought were bullying.  Some  skipped classes.  All were disciplined.  Not clear what the alleged bullying remarks were.  Students have 1st Amendment rights as against a public school district, even in Utah.

2.  Regulation of off-campus behavior and speech.  Public schools at all grade levels are trying to extend their reach to regulate more off-campus behavior.  Coach's actions are in line with that.  Principal approves.

3.  Coach may have been punishing the team for getting clobbered 40-16 in their last outing.

I get that football coaches try to run the team like a military unit to get that level of commitment and discipline from the players.  He wants to beat em down and then build em back up like boot camp.  But there is another way to look at this story.


Being on a school team is a privilege, not a right. Those are far more easily taken away.
 
2013-09-25 05:25:08 PM  
Matt Labrum, coach of Union High School in Roosevelt, Utah, had all 80 players turn in their jerseys after last week's 40-16 loss

Eh... right, because of skipping class and cyberbullying.
 
2013-09-25 05:55:28 PM  
I feel like "cyberbullying" and "bullying" in general is such a vague term nowadays that it can go from actual bullying to saying a negative thing at some point about someone. If someone says something stupid, it's not bullying to say it's stupid. I shall require more details.
 
2013-09-25 06:03:15 PM  

IAmRight: I feel like "cyberbullying" and "bullying" in general is such a vague term nowadays that it can go from actual bullying to saying a negative thing at some point about someone. If someone says something stupid, it's not bullying to say it's stupid. I shall require more details.


I'm going to trust that the high school football coach would rather be coaching high school football than babysitting and collecting community service project write-ups. Not to mention dealing with all the naysayers he undoubtedly pissed off. If he felt he had to do this I imagine there was a collective reason that justified it.
 
2013-09-25 06:07:48 PM  

IAmRight: I feel like "cyberbullying" and "bullying" in general is such a vague term nowadays that it can go from actual bullying to saying a negative thing at some point about someone. If someone says something stupid, it's not bullying to say it's stupid. I shall require more details.


Your post is so bad it makes Josh Freeman look like an NFL starter.
 
2013-09-25 06:14:48 PM  
If a High School football coach suspends his entire team, with most of the parents on board, I have to believe there was a compelling reason, even in the absence of specific details.
 
2013-09-25 06:14:55 PM  

redmid17: Your post is so bad it makes Josh Freeman look like an NFL starter.


You bully.
 
2013-09-25 06:19:59 PM  

IAmRight: redmid17: Your post is so bad it makes Josh Freeman look like an NFL starter.

You bully.


Did the mods intercept the rest of your post?
 
2013-09-25 06:28:22 PM  
He suspended them for a whopping few hours.  I'd buy into more if he made them forfeit a game or two.
 
2013-09-25 06:35:10 PM  

basemetal: Well, I'd prefer they only suspend the guilty, but he's right about the earning the jersey and the privilege to play varsity sports.


Nah, punishing the group is more effective with kids that age.  The whole team/school is going to be pissed off at the bad ones who were responsible.  Peer pressure is a magical thing when used correctly.
 
2013-09-25 06:50:57 PM  
i agree with the punishment and even more so with the parents not complaining to the school board to over rule the coach.
 
2013-09-25 07:07:58 PM  

redmid17: Did the mods intercept the rest of your post?


Nah, that was it.
 
2013-09-25 07:15:26 PM  
If this was a university that made money off the athletes, coach would be fired and the boosters would throw a party for the entire reinstated teams. And the boosters would supply the hookers.
 
2013-09-25 07:34:27 PM  

IAmRight: redmid17: Did the mods intercept the rest of your post?

Nah, that was it.


Well that took the wind out of my sails. You're a bully
 
2013-09-25 07:37:24 PM  
Admit coach teed it up well what with having the team's penance include helping out at the mission center soup kitchen, or whatever it was.  That and rallying the parents pretty much ensured coach would come out a hero.  And he needed a boost anyway after that 40-16 donkey punch.
 
2013-09-25 07:48:55 PM  
Honestly, sounds pretty gutless to me.

If you got one or two bullies, suspend them -- not the whole team. Chances are the the bullies are star players. I've seen numerous coaches over the years blanche from having to single guys out, particularly their talents. Just a couple weeks ago I heard about a local team who had a guy "borrow" a teammate's cell phone, take a pic of his ass, and send it to EVERYONE in the guy's contacts. Including the dude's mom. She of course flipped and wanted the guy arrested. The coach? Did he kick ass dork off the team? Suspend him? Make him run gassers til he puked? Nah. He brought the ENTIRE TEAM in at like 6am for extra practice.

Leader of men, there.
 
2013-09-25 08:00:19 PM  

basemetal: Well, I'd prefer they only suspend the guilty, but he's right about the earning the jersey and the privilege to play varsity sports.


This is a better way of dealing with it.

From what I've heard of basic training from my brother and brother in law, they do have a similar deal. if you screw up, everyone else pays for it. The problem's seem to disappear
 
2013-09-25 08:03:37 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: basemetal: Well, I'd prefer they only suspend the guilty, but he's right about the earning the jersey and the privilege to play varsity sports.

This is a better way of dealing with it.

From what I've heard of basic training from my brother and brother in law, they do have a similar deal. if you screw up, everyone else pays for it. The problem's seem to disappear


Via ....bullying and peer pressure, some of the very things they are being punished for?

Not sure this is the right way to do it.

Look, cool headline and all, and if that's all we know, then it sounds interesting. But I'll withhold judgement for now.
 
2013-09-25 08:12:06 PM  
It takes real guts to fall on your sword like that.

And balls.

BIG balls.

i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-25 08:13:41 PM  

xaks: Via ....bullying and peer pressure, some of the very things they are being punished for?

Not sure this is the right way to do it.


1.  Peer pressure isn't always a bad thing.

B.  There are other ways to motivate a group, a la the example of boot camp, that do not involve bullying.
 
2013-09-25 08:17:12 PM  
Yes!!! Fark nerds rejoice!!!
 
2013-09-25 08:30:17 PM  
This thread has taken a gruesome turn.  Goodbye for ever, Sports tab.

i1277.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-25 08:30:40 PM  

xaks: Unoriginal_Username: basemetal: Well, I'd prefer they only suspend the guilty, but he's right about the earning the jersey and the privilege to play varsity sports.

This is a better way of dealing with it.

From what I've heard of basic training from my brother and brother in law, they do have a similar deal. if you screw up, everyone else pays for it. The problem's seem to disappear

Via ....bullying and peer pressure, some of the very things they are being punished for?

Not sure this is the right way to do it.

Look, cool headline and all, and if that's all we know, then it sounds interesting. But I'll withhold judgement for now.


in basic training/boot camp they treat it like that because in the field, if you screw up, more often than not, someone dies in your unit and it isnt always the jackwad that screwed up.

now for the highschool football team, if it was a majority of the team that was breaking the rules, yah, punish the whole team, but give them an out they can work towards to get unsuspended, but they have to do as a team.  the team is responsible for the team.

also, as many have said, being on the team is a privilege and when i played HS ball, i actually had to sign and agreement that i was an ambassador of my school and my conduct should reflect such (parents had to sign as well).  however, that was an ASB requirement to be eligible.

unfortunately, now adays, school admins dont like strong ASB Councils that challenge them on stuff.  when my class had the ASB council majority, we got word the school district was going to rewrite our ASB Constitution and nueter us, turning it into nothing but a revenue stream for them.  we pre-emptively met with a lawyer on our own time, but made sure the admin knew we were doing it.  they backed off and waited for the class under us to go through (the lawyer was an uncle of one of that class), then they did over the summer and the new ASB didnt do squat.  sigh

good on the coach, especially for actually going to the parents with it as well.
 
2013-09-25 09:03:13 PM  

4tehsnowflakes: comhcinc: Diogenes: Uranus Is Huge!: Hero?

....Hero. Doing what is right when there is no benefit to you.

Coach looks like a hero, including in this more detailed version that makes clear he got most of the parents on board, but there are some troubling aspects.

1.  Collective punishment.  Some students said things online that the coach thought were bullying.  Some  skipped classes.  All were disciplined.  Not clear what the alleged bullying remarks were.  Students have 1st Amendment rights as against a public school district, even in Utah.

2.  Regulation of off-campus behavior and speech.  Public schools at all grade levels are trying to extend their reach to regulate more off-campus behavior.  Coach's actions are in line with that.  Principal approves.

3.  Coach may have been punishing the team for getting clobbered 40-16 in their last outing.

I get that football coaches try to run the team like a military unit to get that level of commitment and discipline from the players.  He wants to beat em down and then build em back up like boot camp.  But there is another way to look at this story.


The First Amendment doesn't mean there can be no consequences for what you say. "Congress shall make no law..."

When I was in 8th grade, our whole football team had to run until we thought we were going to die because one kid on the team stole a 6th grader's lunch money. The lesson being taught was that the actions of one of us reflect on all of us. That kid got an extra lesson after practice courtesy of his teammates.
 
2013-09-25 09:15:15 PM  

xaks: Unoriginal_Username: basemetal: Well, I'd prefer they only suspend the guilty, but he's right about the earning the jersey and the privilege to play varsity sports.

This is a better way of dealing with it.

From what I've heard of basic training from my brother and brother in law, they do have a similar deal. if you screw up, everyone else pays for it. The problem's seem to disappear

Via ....bullying and peer pressure, some of the very things they are being punished for?

Not sure this is the right way to do it.

Look, cool headline and all, and if that's all we know, then it sounds interesting. But I'll withhold judgement for now.


Sometimes the best way to fight a fire, is with fire.
 
2013-09-25 09:40:07 PM  
I have no problem with this.  On my HS team there were some things that led to personal punishment and others punished the whole team. 

  For example, our coaches had a rule against swearing, so if anyone sword during practice or a game (including a coach), then after that practice, they had to run the length of the field, dropping for 10 pushups every 10 yards.

  If you got a detention which caused you miss practice, then the entire team go to run multiple gassers across the field while you got to stand next to the coach on the 50 yard line and watch.
 
2013-09-25 10:40:02 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: From what I've heard of basic training from my brother and brother in law, they do have a similar deal. if you screw up, everyone else pays for it. The problem's seem to disappear


If you want to treat it like Basic Training, take it one step farther- you screw up, everyone else pays for it.

EXCEPT you.

Whether or not the guilty party voluntarily joins in the group punishment teaches all you need to know, and basically changes how the rest of the team treats them. 

Either way, it's team-building. "000 here thinks he's more important than the group. Well, he's right. He's all that matters in this group. You all do push-ups. 000, you stand there and watch."
 
2013-09-25 10:56:20 PM  

Gonz: Whether or not the guilty party voluntarily joins in the group punishment teaches all you need to know,


They're not allowed to join in even if they want to (well, I suppose since now the drill instructors can't touch you, I suppose they can't really stop you). But basically the gist of it is that if you f*ck around and go off being an individual in a wartime situation, you probably get your ass killed and now everyone else has to pick up your slack. You're dead, so you don't have to do the work.
 
2013-09-25 11:02:18 PM  

IAmRight: They're not allowed to join in even if they want to


No, really, they are. It's just never given as a spoken option. At least, they were in 1997.

And if a dude realizes he screwed up and it hurt the group? Guy's a natural leader.
 
2013-09-25 11:15:38 PM  
4tehsnowflakes:

1.  Collective punishment.  Some students said things online that the coach thought were bullying.  Some  skipped classes.  All were disciplined.  Not clear what the alleged bullying remarks were.  Students have 1st Amendment rights as against a public school district, even in Utah.

Not really. Schools and school districts have pretty wide latitude when it comes to restrictions. Ask your local high school newspaper how much freedom they have to print stories critical of the administration, even if the stories are true.
 
2013-09-25 11:23:39 PM  

Gonz: Unoriginal_Username: From what I've heard of basic training from my brother and brother in law, they do have a similar deal. if you screw up, everyone else pays for it. The problem's seem to disappear

If you want to treat it like Basic Training, take it one step farther- you screw up, everyone else pays for it.

EXCEPT you.

Whether or not the guilty party voluntarily joins in the group punishment teaches all you need to know, and basically changes how the rest of the team treats them. 

Either way, it's team-building. "000 here thinks he's more important than the group. Well, he's right. He's all that matters in this group. You all do push-ups. 000, you stand there and watch."


But do they get to eat the jelly donut?
 
2013-09-25 11:46:41 PM  
FTA: Matt Labrum, coach of Union High School in Roosevelt, Utah, had all 80 players turn in their jerseys after last week's 40-16 loss.

Try doing it to a team that won 40-16 and you'll really see the parents go apeshiat.
 
2013-09-26 12:41:53 AM  

the_freelance: Honestly, sounds pretty gutless to me.

If you got one or two bullies, suspend them -- not the whole team. Chances are the the bullies are star players. I've seen numerous coaches over the years blanche from having to single guys out, particularly their talents. Just a couple weeks ago I heard about a local team who had a guy "borrow" a teammate's cell phone, take a pic of his ass, and send it to EVERYONE in the guy's contacts. Including the dude's mom. She of course flipped and wanted the guy arrested. The coach? Did he kick ass dork off the team? Suspend him? Make him run gassers til he puked? Nah. He brought the ENTIRE TEAM in at like 6am for extra practice.

Leader of men, there.


It's a high school football team. I have zero problem believing that there are more than one or two bullies in the group.
 
2013-09-26 01:21:52 AM  

the_freelance: Honestly, sounds pretty gutless to me.

If you got one or two bullies, suspend them -- not the whole team. Chances are the the bullies are star players. I've seen numerous coaches over the years blanche from having to single guys out, particularly their talents. Just a couple weeks ago I heard about a local team who had a guy "borrow" a teammate's cell phone, take a pic of his ass, and send it to EVERYONE in the guy's contacts. Including the dude's mom. She of course flipped and wanted the guy arrested. The coach? Did he kick ass dork off the team? Suspend him? Make him run gassers til he puked? Nah. He brought the ENTIRE TEAM in at like 6am for extra practice.

Leader of men, there.


Football is a team game in the most extreme aspect. If everyone isn't doing their job your play won't be successful. You win as a team and you lose as a team. You succeed as a team and you're punished as a team.
 
2013-09-26 08:28:11 AM  

Gonz: Unoriginal_Username: From what I've heard of basic training from my brother and brother in law, they do have a similar deal. if you screw up, everyone else pays for it. The problem's seem to disappear

If you want to treat it like Basic Training, take it one step farther- you screw up, everyone else pays for it.

EXCEPT you.

Whether or not the guilty party voluntarily joins in the group punishment teaches all you need to know, and basically changes how the rest of the team treats them. 

Either way, it's team-building. "000 here thinks he's more important than the group. Well, he's right. He's all that matters in this group. You all do push-ups. 000, you stand there and watch."


I thought that was the Mike Brady method of child discipline.
 
2013-09-26 08:54:34 AM  

mrjared: the_freelance: Honestly, sounds pretty gutless to me.

If you got one or two bullies, suspend them -- not the whole team. Chances are the the bullies are star players. I've seen numerous coaches over the years blanche from having to single guys out, particularly their talents. Just a couple weeks ago I heard about a local team who had a guy "borrow" a teammate's cell phone, take a pic of his ass, and send it to EVERYONE in the guy's contacts. Including the dude's mom. She of course flipped and wanted the guy arrested. The coach? Did he kick ass dork off the team? Suspend him? Make him run gassers til he puked? Nah. He brought the ENTIRE TEAM in at like 6am for extra practice.

Leader of men, there.

It's a high school football team. I have zero problem believing that there are more than one or two bullies in the group.


This.

And the members of the team that didn't do any bullying knew about the bullying and stood by and did nothing about it. This is a good lesson in teaching that you don't standby and watch somebody do something wrong without stepping up and trying to correct them about their actions or try to do something to stop them.
 
2013-09-26 09:21:13 AM  

redmid17: IAmRight: I feel like "cyberbullying" and "bullying" in general is such a vague term nowadays that it can go from actual bullying to saying a negative thing at some point about someone. If someone says something stupid, it's not bullying to say it's stupid. I shall require more details.

Your post is so bad it makes Josh Freeman look like an NFL starter.


Stop being a cyberbully!
 
2013-09-26 09:46:16 AM  
Is this in accordance with some sort of morality code implemented by a certain prominent Utah-based cult?
 
2013-09-26 10:05:02 AM  
 Were every single one of the kids misbehaving?  It's not right to punish anyone for something they didn't do.  Collective punishment is illegal for a reason.
 
2013-09-26 11:26:17 AM  
The guilty kids better hope the innocent kids have never seen Full Metal Jacket.

/Getting beaten with soap can have a profound impact
 
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