Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(TreeHugger)   Attention bicyclists of New York City: Just because you think a street needs its own bike lane doesn't mean you get to take it upon yourself to paint a fake bike lane. "We're doing something for the public good"   (treehugger.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, New York City, bike lanes, public good, Avenue of the Americas, spray paints, New York Public Library  
•       •       •

8913 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2013 at 5:38 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



244 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-09-25 04:01:42 PM  
God that site really has something against spray-in foam insulation. You'd think tree huggers would want houses sealed up tight and efficient.
 
2013-09-25 04:03:55 PM  
I am completely okay with this as long as I am allowed to make up my lanes as well.
 
2013-09-25 04:21:24 PM  
Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.
 
2013-09-25 04:38:51 PM  
I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."
 
2013-09-25 04:41:28 PM  
Attention shiatty bloggers: just because the screenshot you took of a video has a play/pause button does not magically turn it into an actual video.  Asshole.
 
2013-09-25 04:48:42 PM  

comhcinc: I am completely okay with this as long as I am allowed to make up my lanes as well.


Yeah, kind of this.  How long until some chucklehead makes his own "no bikes" signs?
 
2013-09-25 04:50:55 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.


What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.
 
2013-09-25 04:52:47 PM  

serial_crusher: comhcinc: I am completely okay with this as long as I am allowed to make up my lanes as well.

Yeah, kind of this.  How long until some chucklehead makes his own "no bikes" signs?


Better yet, paint it IN the fake bike lane.
 
2013-09-25 04:54:55 PM  

serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.


The street in question is steep, narrow and with a couple of blind curves. Cars regularly gun it up the road and nearly hit cyclists as it is. A fake bike lane would give false assurances that the road is safe, despite not being up to regulations.
 
2013-09-25 05:24:38 PM  
How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.
 
2013-09-25 05:41:41 PM  
Cyclist thread?

/this isn't a bookmark
 
2013-09-25 05:42:11 PM  
notthisthreadagain.png
 
2013-09-25 05:42:51 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-25 05:43:39 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


So much this, and frankly, when I'm huffing and puffing up a steep hill with a perfectly usable sidewalk nearby and there are several cars behind me, I use the sidewalk.  I don't want 10 angry drivers behind me, each piloting 300lbs+ of biker death.
 
2013-09-25 05:45:07 PM  
 
2013-09-25 05:47:30 PM  
RTFA.

That's a long tenuous link that goes from "let's put in a bike lane" to "asshole cyclists and incompetent taxi drivers won't get into arguments" to "tourists won't get their feet crushed".
 
2013-09-25 05:48:51 PM  
Cyclists should just wait til the weekend to go on their joyrides. I'd be fine with bicyclists getting their own lane on weekends. But during the week, when actual adults are commuting to work, and these wanna-be Lance Armstrongs are clogging the lanes? Stay home and update your urban lifestyle blog, go harvest some organic kale at the local co-op, or go vintage loafer shopping with your life partner Seth. Leave the roads to the adults who actually work for a living.
 
2013-09-25 05:50:05 PM  

violentsalvation: God that site really has something against spray-in foam insulation. You'd think tree huggers would want houses sealed up tight and efficient.


What fascinates me is that foamed glass has been around for almost a century. It's inert, light, easy to work with, fireproof and mildew resistant. I must be missing something.

It probably only worked with balloon frames or something. We gotta build cheap and fast.
 
2013-09-25 05:51:53 PM  
This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.
 
2013-09-25 05:52:31 PM  

doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?


I know a few people who've biked in Tokyo, and it's safe precisely because the bicycling rules are NOT enforced. Police turn a blind eye to two people on a bike, cruising through stops, etc. At the same time, they've come up with unwritten societal rules to keep it safe, so if you're weaving around with a BAC of 0.15, yeah, you'll probably be in trouble.

Americans can't stare down the road unless there are lines carefully painted for them. When they go to other countries where for example, there are no center lines painted, they lose their f*cking minds and can't imagine how a few thousand people a day aren't dying in wrong way crashes. A lot of this is using some common sense and thinking on your feet, which apparently American drivers are incapable of.
 
2013-09-25 05:53:25 PM  
<a target="_blank" data-cke-saved-href="<a href=" href="<a href=" http:="" www.fark.com="" users="" treygreen13"="">Treygreen13

Thank you.
 
2013-09-25 05:56:05 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


They also like to ignore one-way streets.
 
2013-09-25 05:56:55 PM  
FTA : "We're doing something for the public good," said Keegan Stephan... "So I think it's O.K., even if it's illegal."

Keegan sounds Somalian.
 
2013-09-25 05:57:21 PM  

Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.


Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.
 
2013-09-25 05:57:23 PM  
In fairness, most road lanes are wide enough for both cars and bicycles. Simply painting in their own lane is just highlighting where the car and cyclist should be to avoid hurting each other.

/reading the linked article, how the hell was the cab driver not charged with dangerous driving causing bodily harm?
 
2013-09-25 05:57:29 PM  
The woman went from losing her foot to losing her leg in a paragraph. I didn't finish reading the article because I didn't want her to end up like the black knight.
 
2013-09-25 05:57:40 PM  
All in favor of bike lanes in the more congested areas, but not so much in the less congested one.We had last year or so, a bike lane open in Albuquerque that traverses half the city. Was hailed by many bikers, not so much by those against it, saying overall, it served no purpose. I for one, do like using designated trails, but frown on those using motorized bikes, and it's clearly marked that no motorized bikes are allowed, yet these asshats feel haughty enough to do so. I'm alll for following the rules, and if I ride all the way into town doing so,these lazy farks can abide by the rules as well. Sure  I can put a motor on my bike, or ride my 900 cc BMW on the paths too, doesn't make it right. Don't make your own signs, and the law abiding people won't have to take action, not just make up rules as they go along.
 
2013-09-25 05:58:16 PM  

serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.


based on a certain ratio of width to length and degree of curvature, sight lines, etc a road will have a safe driving speed.  if a road has a bike lane, their is a speed limit reduction that would apply.  No official baike lane, could mean excessive speeds in vicinity of a bike which could cause turbulence and knock the bicyclist off the bike.
 
2013-09-25 05:58:29 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


It's the law. You want cyclists to stop at stop signs and obey traffic laws and be good upstanding citizens, then you get to follow the same rules. If bikes are treated exactly the same as internal-combustion powered automobiles in the eyes of the law, then you just sit back on your ass while the bike take up the entire lane as the law entitles it to, going just as fast as the cyclist can go. So blow it out your ass.
 
2013-09-25 05:59:36 PM  
I almost hit a cyclist the other day. I was at a stop light going to turn right. I didn't pass a cyclist on the way to the stop light, so they must have turned onto the road after I passed. They came up on my right side as I made my turn as the light turned green. They flipped me off and yelled at me. I still feel bad, but honestly never even thought about checking over my right shoulder making a right turn. I sure will from now on, but I wonder whose fault it would have been if an accident had happened.
 
2013-09-25 06:00:38 PM  
www.hbstache.com

This sums up my feelings as a long time cyclist.....pretty simple really
 
2013-09-25 06:00:46 PM  
Ooh, is this the thread where car drivers complain that they get mildly inconvenienced when they are stuck behind a bicyclist for 30 seconds, and therefore wish death upon them?

If it is, sign me up! fark those guys!
 
2013-09-25 06:03:00 PM  

New Age Redneck: [www.hbstache.com image 166x250]

This sums up my feelings as a long time cyclist.....pretty simple really


This.  No sympathies from me for those cyclist douches who blow through red lights and stop signs.  Aim for them, I say.  Maybe get some of the heat of the law-abiding cyclists' backs.


/cyclist who rides 100 miles a week
 
2013-09-25 06:05:24 PM  

serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.


It's not a legally registered and licensed vehicle. Make them pay to register the vehicle and get a licence. Then build them lanes. Get them paying a road tax to use the road. Even Horse and Buggy operators pay a tax and have a licence.
Until then they are fair game.

Oh and don't go into the "But, but pedestrians!" mode. Those Farkers have to cross at a crosswalk and watch the signals or they're fair game too.
 
2013-09-25 06:05:52 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red. There are asshole cyclists, and there are asshole drivers. Similar percentage of each.
 
2013-09-25 06:06:23 PM  

New Age Redneck: [www.hbstache.com image 166x250]

This sums up my feelings as a long time cyclist.....pretty simple really



I'm going to talk to some of my friends who I ride with and see if we can pitch in some money to order jerseys from Primal with that printed on it.
 
2013-09-25 06:06:30 PM  
Inside a bicyclist's head:

"I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian......."
 
2013-09-25 06:07:25 PM  

waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.


Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.
 
2013-09-25 06:07:50 PM  

TomD9938: FTA : "We're doing something for the public good," said Keegan Stephan... "So I think it's O.K., even if it's illegal."

Keegan sounds Somalian.


Today, I saw Keegan and Logan stumbling back to their $2800 a month loft in their 19th century barber and paperboy outfits after celebrating another year of funemployment and Brooklyn homogenization by drinking cruelty-free champagne in which the grapes were asked nicely to juice themselves rather than being stomped; and eating local, organic Bushwickian cheese laced with red beard hair and American Spirit cigarette ashes. So I gave them each an uppercut; ran their brochure-like bodies through a paper shredder and tossed the confetti around my still normal and actually diverse neighborhood. End of story.
 
2013-09-25 06:08:55 PM  
Cyclist philosophy:

"I use a green form of transportation.  This makes me better than you filthy scumbags.  I deserve special treatment."

Maybe NYC needs a special lane for non-motor vehicles, but being a douche about it doesn't make people want to support your ideas.
 
2013-09-25 06:08:56 PM  
I'm going to annoy people with the word macadam for at least a week.
 
2013-09-25 06:11:34 PM  

hailin: I almost hit a cyclist the other day. I was at a stop light going to turn right. I didn't pass a cyclist on the way to the stop light, so they must have turned onto the road after I passed. They came up on my right side as I made my turn as the light turned green. They flipped me off and yelled at me. I still feel bad, but honestly never even thought about checking over my right shoulder making a right turn. I sure will from now on, but I wonder whose fault it would have been if an accident had happened.


theirs. bikes are vehicles and passing on the right at an intersection is illegal (for this reason)
 
2013-09-25 06:12:01 PM  

uncleacid: I'm going to annoy people with the word macadam for at least a week.


I agree and did so. I moved from "The South" to New Jersey in '07. The guy doing the house inspection referenced the macadam driveway. I was like "Dude, that's asphalt."
 
2013-09-25 06:15:48 PM  

Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.


So we're going to rate the red-light running? Watch cars stop on red when turning right. Watch cars sneak through turning left. good luck finding a light with none of them. Go ahead and tell me these never cause accidents.
 
2013-09-25 06:16:26 PM  
Treygreen13
waterrockets:
Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.


That's why there are no red-light cameras : too unprofitable.
 
2013-09-25 06:17:48 PM  
Paging Cosmo Kramer....
 
2013-09-25 06:18:58 PM  

ZeroPly: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

I know a few people who've biked in Tokyo, and it's safe precisely because the bicycling rules are NOT enforced. Police turn a blind eye to two people on a bike, cruising through stops, etc. At the same time, they've come up with unwritten societal rules to keep it safe, so if you're weaving around with a BAC of 0.15, yeah, you'll probably be in trouble.

Americans can't stare down the road unless there are lines carefully painted for them. When they go to other countries where for example, there are no center lines painted, they lose their f*cking minds and can't imagine how a few thousand people a day aren't dying in wrong way crashes. A lot of this is using some common sense and thinking on your feet, which apparently American drivers are incapable of.


Your post is filled with bullshiat.
 
2013-09-25 06:20:02 PM  

ShepTR: Ooh, is this the thread where car drivers complain that they get mildly inconvenienced when they are stuck behind a bicyclist for 30 seconds, and therefore wish death upon them?

If it is, sign me up! fark those guys!


Cyclists should die. But it need not be a physical death. Just slay the beast within you that needs to find adversaries. Drivers do the same.

We're all just people. Slower traffic keep right. Watch out for your corn hole.
 
2013-09-25 06:22:41 PM  

ShepTR: Ooh, is this the thread where car drivers complain that they get mildly inconvenienced when they are stuck behind a bicyclist for 30 seconds, and therefore wish death upon them?

If it is, sign me up! fark those guys!



Call me crazy, but I don't like to waste other people's time.
 
2013-09-25 06:24:35 PM  

The_Sponge: Inside a bicyclist's head:

"I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian......."


Thats just Chinatown.
 
2013-09-25 06:27:37 PM  

serial_crusher: What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.


Perhaps it is because you dont want motorists questioning whether a given bike lane sign is actually legitimate
 
2013-09-25 06:29:31 PM  
"We're doing something for the public good," said Keegan Stephan, one of the founders of the group, called Right of Way. "So I think it's O.K., even if it's illegal."

So, it's illegal, but KEE-F*CKING-gan says he wants to do it anyway, so it's legal.

If I posted that pic of the car smashing through a crowd of bicyclists (again), the Fark mods will get a load of butthurt (again) and suspend me (again).

So, just Google Image up "car smashing through bicyclists" and see it for yourself they type of response I'd give to snotty little sh*ts like Keegan Stephan.
 
2013-09-25 06:31:49 PM  

Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.


I should know better than to argue with your imaginary anecdote, but have you ever waited for a traffic signal that never turned green for you? If you're waiting in your car for a signal to turn green for you, and after seeing the opposite streets cycle through but still not give you a green, what did you do?

All the traffic signals around here have magnetic loop detectors that are set to recognize cars, but not smaller objects like bicycles. Sometimes there's a specific, marked bike detector, but about 10% of the time they don't work, either. After a dozen or more of these traffic signalized intersections designed for cars, cyclists tend to slow, look, and go when they think it's safe.
 
2013-09-25 06:32:30 PM  
Love the cager rage in this thread.

No matter what inconvenience a cyclist or pedestrian are to a motor vehicle a little right pedal action quickly gets your ass going again.

/cagers can deal with it
//digital sunglasses.gif
 
2013-09-25 06:34:09 PM  
This thread is yet another example of why we need to ban cars all together. They clearly have the magical power to turn everyone inside of them into raging assholes.
 
2013-09-25 06:34:13 PM  
While I am pretty much fed up with most cyclists (videthe TFD thread the other night of bike assholes riding at night w/o lights and in dark clothing) , this news story reminds me of another one, a while back.  NYC Hasidic extremists got all upset about cyclists biking through their neighborhood in "immodest" clothing, so they painted out the bike lanes.  

Both need to just STFU and knock it off.
 
2013-09-25 06:34:51 PM  

doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.


Bikes are mostly relegated to the sidewalk, as is appropriate since they aren't safe enough to ride on the roads with traffic.

Here's your sign
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-25 06:35:25 PM  

theorellior: It's the law. You want cyclists to stop at stop signs and obey traffic laws and be good upstanding citizens, then you get to follow the same rules. If bikes are treated exactly the same as internal-combustion powered automobiles in the eyes of the law, then you just sit back on your ass while the bike take up the entire lane as the law entitles it to, going just as fast as the cyclist can go. So blow it out your ass.


There are minimum speed limit and obstruction of traffic laws too, so yes, let's treat cyclists the same.
 
2013-09-25 06:35:44 PM  

serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.


Is this taking place in a magical fairy world where bikes obey traffic laws instead of randomly careening into traffic?

Also -- because guerrilla lanes may not be conforming to standards for width and vehicle clearance.
 
2013-09-25 06:37:05 PM  

I alone am best: ZeroPly: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

I know a few people who've biked in Tokyo, and it's safe precisely because the bicycling rules are NOT enforced. Police turn a blind eye to two people on a bike, cruising through stops, etc. At the same time, they've come up with unwritten societal rules to keep it safe, so if you're weaving around with a BAC of 0.15, yeah, you'll probably be in trouble.

Americans can't stare down the road unless there are lines carefully painted for them. When they go to other countries where for example, there are no center lines painted, they lose their f*cking minds and can't imagine how a few thousand people a day aren't dying in wrong way crashes. A lot of this is using some common sense and thinking on your feet, which apparently American drivers are incapable of.

Your post is filled with bullshiat.


You are an inarticulate cretin.
 
2013-09-25 06:37:29 PM  
I ride a bike to/from work when the shuttles aren't running. I have MS, and spasms, and my neurologist says I shouldn't have a drivers license... so that just kind of is what it is. I don't blow through red lights, and I try to ride in the shoulder (when available) because much like you don't want me in the road, I'd much rather not be in the road. That said, where there's no sidewalk, and I have to ride in the road, drivers are total dickbags to me (out of state ones anyways, CO drivers seem pretty used to it around here). I was riding up a hill on the road to my house, it has no sidewalks, no centerline, and no shoulders, but is a pretty wide road. I was about a foot from the guard rail, and there was plenty of space to pass me... but this total twatrocket from texas in a big SUV felt the need to creep up the hill behind me, laying on the horn for about 5 minutes straight, before realizing, at probably the narrowest part of the road, that she had the option of just driving right on by.

I know nobody on fark actually reads the csbs, but with all the bicyclist hate out there, I though the thread kind of lacked any balance.
 
2013-09-25 06:38:23 PM  

waterrockets: Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."

Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red. There are asshole cyclists, and there are asshole drivers. Similar percentage of each.


Not even close.

I've never seen a car in Philly blow a light by more than 3 seconds (not counting cops...).

I see that three times daily on my walk to/from the train, each way. I also enjoy diving out of the way of bikes going the wrong way down one-way streets, or using the sidewalks as a local lane. fark bikers. Even the insane panhandlers are more law-abiding.
 
2013-09-25 06:38:47 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

Bikes are mostly relegated to the sidewalk, as is appropriate since they aren't safe enough to ride on the roads with traffic.

Here's your sign
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1133]


Depends on where you are... here, you get a ticket if you ride on the sidewalks (I got one before b/c I didn't want to ride my bike on a busy road, and the sidewalk was empty).
 
2013-09-25 06:40:22 PM  

Ecdysozoa: Love the cager rage in this thread.

No matter what inconvenience a cyclist or pedestrian are to a motor vehicle a little right pedal action quickly gets your ass going again.

/cagers can deal with it
//digital sunglasses.gif


lol.....frustrated and impotent faux bicyclist-type typing detected

/loosen your shorts
//don't stamp your little feet if you are wearing your cleats+
 
2013-09-25 06:40:28 PM  
There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.
 
2013-09-25 06:40:32 PM  

Ecdysozoa: Love the cager rage in this thread.

No matter what inconvenience a cyclist or pedestrian are to a motor vehicle a little right pedal action quickly gets your ass going again.

/cagers can deal with it
//digital sunglasses.gif


What does basketball have to do with this?
 
2013-09-25 06:41:20 PM  
While back some cyclist decided to get hit by a car, around my area they painted a bike path, it didn't take a year later before some cyclist who again decides not to follow the laws of the road - get t-boned by a motorcycle - another group of people with their "WATCH OUT FOR MOTORCYCLE!" stickers everywhere.

Cyclist got farked up bad and the motorcyclist had no helmet, what I don't understand is why cyclist want to be assholes? They expect cars to stop just because they have no protection - but they ignore all laws concerning the road because they believe they own it.

/agree with the guy up top, why do they constantly ride in the middle of a ROAD when there is a sidewalk especially when traffic is around?
//I bike and ride a motorcycle, maybe im a triple asshole on top of being a racist arab, then again my motorcycle is for quiet back roads on a sunday and biking is for cross country not near roads - frankly I want to preserve my life especially around cars where people text all the time
 
2013-09-25 06:41:30 PM  

Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.


I already can't get a farking drivers license b/c of my MS, now you want to take my bike away too? How am I supposed to get to work? Teleportation...
 
2013-09-25 06:43:59 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


Most states have laws that say all vehicles (including bicycles) have to maintain at least a constant speed w/in 15 mph of the stated speed limit if conditions allow.  NYC surface streets, the speed limit is 30 mph unless otherwise posted, so, it shouldn't be too hard to stay above 15 mph (although usually City traffic usually hovers around 15mph), that said, I always ride to the extreme side of the street if there isn't a bike lane.  Also, I get in shouting matches w/ asshole cyclists who don't follow the laws every time I ride.
 
2013-09-25 06:44:01 PM  

firefly212: Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.

I already can't get a farking drivers license b/c of my MS, now you want to take my bike away too? How am I supposed to get to work? Teleportation...


Would you still object if the Driver's License requirement was amended or waved but you still were held responsible for the other parts. Lane sharing, running reds, having to pull over if more than 5 cars are following you etc.?
 
2013-09-25 06:44:29 PM  
As someone who routinely rides a bike around midtown NYC, I'm really getting a kick out of all this bike hate.  Most drivers are respectful to bikes, and most bicyclists are respectful to drivers.  And most bike lanes are  shared lanes.  When I signed up for Citibike, I got a pamphlet in the mail with all of the NYC bike riding laws.  I'm positive 95% of the drivers don't know these rules, so I stopped getting pissy when most drivers ignore them.  I also happily treat red lights like stop signs.

/Citibike is awesome
/Some cabbies really really suck
 
2013-09-25 06:44:59 PM  

Misconduc: While back some cyclist decided to get hit by a car, around my area they painted a bike path, it didn't take a year later before some cyclist who again decides not to follow the laws of the road - get t-boned by a motorcycle - another group of people with their "WATCH OUT FOR MOTORCYCLE!" stickers everywhere.

Cyclist got farked up bad and the motorcyclist had no helmet, what I don't understand is why cyclist want to be assholes? They expect cars to stop just because they have no protection - but they ignore all laws concerning the road because they believe they own it.

/agree with the guy up top, why do they constantly ride in the middle of a ROAD when there is a sidewalk especially when traffic is around?
//I bike and ride a motorcycle, maybe im a triple asshole on top of being a racist arab, then again my motorcycle is for quiet back roads on a sunday and biking is for cross country not near roads - frankly I want to preserve my life especially around cars where people text all the time


With the exception of speeding and the one time I got the ticket for riding on the sidewalk (empty sidewalk, crazy busy road), I've not ever broken a traffic law... I'm a total asshole, but I don't race out in front of cars, bust red lights, or do that other stuff because in the battle of 3000lb car v. 150lb me, I am not on the happy end of that physics computation. I know there are some bicyclists who are douchebags, but why stereotype all of them when we know that isn't true... it is a terribly spurious and disingenuous accusation and style of debate to attribute one negative feature to all people who engage in a particular sport or activity.
 
2013-09-25 06:46:07 PM  

Luse: firefly212: Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.

I already can't get a farking drivers license b/c of my MS, now you want to take my bike away too? How am I supposed to get to work? Teleportation...

Would you still object if the Driver's License requirement was amended or waved but you still were held responsible for the other parts. Lane sharing, running reds, having to pull over if more than 5 cars are following you etc.?


I'm cool with most of that, but on some of these mtn roads, there isn't exactly a "pull over" option unless you want to fall a few hundred feet.

/much of the state also doesn't believe in guardrails.
 
2013-09-25 06:47:36 PM  

Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.


This.  I can't tell you how many times I've nearly been hit by a bicycle that refused to slow down for pedestrians in a crosswalk.
 
2013-09-25 06:48:03 PM  
Cabby drives on sidewalk, crushing womans foot and forcing amputation.

Fark response: Stupid Bikers!
 
2013-09-25 06:48:59 PM  

firefly212: Misconduc: While back some cyclist decided to get hit by a car, around my area they painted a bike path, it didn't take a year later before some cyclist who again decides not to follow the laws of the road - get t-boned by a motorcycle - another group of people with their "WATCH OUT FOR MOTORCYCLE!" stickers everywhere.

Cyclist got farked up bad and the motorcyclist had no helmet, what I don't understand is why cyclist want to be assholes? They expect cars to stop just because they have no protection - but they ignore all laws concerning the road because they believe they own it.

/agree with the guy up top, why do they constantly ride in the middle of a ROAD when there is a sidewalk especially when traffic is around?
//I bike and ride a motorcycle, maybe im a triple asshole on top of being a racist arab, then again my motorcycle is for quiet back roads on a sunday and biking is for cross country not near roads - frankly I want to preserve my life especially around cars where people text all the time

With the exception of speeding and the one time I got the ticket for riding on the sidewalk (empty sidewalk, crazy busy road), I've not ever broken a traffic law... I'm a total asshole, but I don't race out in front of cars, bust red lights, or do that other stuff because in the battle of 3000lb car v. 150lb me, I am not on the happy end of that physics computation. I know there are some bicyclists who are douchebags, but why stereotype all of them when we know that isn't true... it is a terribly spurious and disingenuous accusation and style of debate to attribute one negative feature to all people who engage in a particular sport or activity.


As both a "cager" and a motorcycle rider, I agree. In a confrontation between me on my bike, and a minivan, it doesn't really matter who is right, I'll be the dead right guy.
Also, I accused noone of anything. I merely propose a simple solution to a hotly debated topic. Do you treat a bicyclist as a car or as a pedestrian. I say, neither, treat them as a motorcycle.
The MS is a valid concern so I'd go as far as to downgrade it and say treat them the same as a scooter. You have to obey all of the rules of the road if you are to share it, that is all.
 
2013-09-25 06:49:12 PM  

The_Sponge: Inside a bicyclist's head:

"I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian.....I'm a car.....I'm a pedestrian......."


Which is still better than most car driver's heads:

"What do I have to do after work today, oh that's right I'm meeting sarah for drinks, got she is such a biatch I can't believe she is cheating on john, oh look at marasha's text message I can't believe she sent me that. I'll just quickly responded"... *thump* "oh my god that cyclist came out of no where!!!!"
 
2013-09-25 06:49:29 PM  

Beeblebrox: Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.

This.  I can't tell you how many times I've nearly been hit by a bicycle that refused to slow down for pedestrians in a crosswalk.


That's freakin awful! I've never hit a pedestrian, and if I'm in a place where I know there's likely to be kids darting out in front of me, I just get off my bike and walk it. They should get ticketed or fined or something when they do stupid crap like that.
 
2013-09-25 06:51:00 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


Well, going on the sidewalk is a significant ticket, and pedestrians are even bigger idiots than cyclists when they're on the sidewalk, which makes that an accident waiting to happen.  So we're legally required to be in the road (though there are some roads where I say "FARK THAT") and legally allowed to take the entire lane, since for functional legal purposes, we are a car that happens to have no blinkers, and a top speed of 10-15 MPH.  (There are people who go faster, but if you're doing that on a road where you're continuously required to stop, you're a) in WAY better shape than me since I can't routinely hit that speed over and over and over again from a dead stop and b) a farking idiot because you CANNOT stop quickly enough on a yellow light without flipping over the handlebars.  Save it for the trail)

But yes, the red light problem IS a problem.  Farking stop, you idiots.  If it's a stop sign, I'm cool with treating it as a yield (I do it too.  Slow down, look left, look right, go if there are no cars, spend a few seconds stopping and dismounting (since you can't reach the ground from the bike seat) otherwise), but if they have a stoplight, FARKING STOP.  That means that there are TONS of cars about to come rolling through and you WILL DIE.
 
2013-09-25 06:51:29 PM  

firefly212: Luse: firefly212: Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.

I already can't get a farking drivers license b/c of my MS, now you want to take my bike away too? How am I supposed to get to work? Teleportation...

Would you still object if the Driver's License requirement was amended or waved but you still were held responsible for the other parts. Lane sharing, running reds, having to pull over if more than 5 cars are following you etc.?

I'm cool with most of that, but on some of these mtn roads, there isn't exactly a "pull over" option unless you want to fall a few hundred feet.

/much of the state also doesn't believe in guardrails.


Most states with the pull over requirement have designated spots designed for just that. Unfortunately they get used about as frequently as turn signals.
 
2013-09-25 06:51:48 PM  
Coming to a DIY bike lane near you!!
www.everymantri.com
 
2013-09-25 06:52:38 PM  

FatherChaos: Cyclist philosophy:

"I use a green form of transportation.  This makes me better than you filthy scumbags.  I deserve special treatment."


I've actually come across cyclists who say that, openly.
 
2013-09-25 06:55:41 PM  
Beeblebrox:This.  I can't tell you how many times I've nearly been hit by a bicycle that refused to slow down for pedestrians in a crosswalk.

In NY, it is a free-for-all.  One person looks at an oncoming vehicle and decides he can cross the street before it gets to the intersection.  Then 50 people blindly follow without looking.  If you are in a car, you have to rev the engine to get people to actually look up and go 'Holy fark I'm retarded and need to get out of the street'.  If you are on a bike, you can ring that dinky little bell all you want, people still walk right in front of you.

This is people crossing against the light.  I'm sure there are plenty of people being dicks and plowing through a group of people crossing that actually have the light.
 
2013-09-25 06:55:46 PM  

Luse: firefly212: Luse: firefly212: Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.

I already can't get a farking drivers license b/c of my MS, now you want to take my bike away too? How am I supposed to get to work? Teleportation...

Would you still object if the Driver's License requirement was amended or waved but you still were held responsible for the other parts. Lane sharing, running reds, having to pull over if more than 5 cars are following you etc.?

I'm cool with most of that, but on some of these mtn roads, there isn't exactly a "pull over" option unless you want to fall a few hundred feet.

/much of the state also doesn't believe in guardrails.

Most states with the pull over requirement have designated spots designed for just that. Unfortunately they get used about as frequently as turn signals.


No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.
 
2013-09-25 06:57:20 PM  
"Right of Way is a NYC-based activist collective 'dedicated to asserting the rights of car-free street users'"

that phrase alone makes me want to mow them down with a unimog.
 
2013-09-25 06:57:24 PM  
No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.


That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned
 
2013-09-25 06:58:24 PM  

Luse: firefly212: Misconduc: While back some cyclist decided to get hit by a car, around my area they painted a bike path, it didn't take a year later before some cyclist who again decides not to follow the laws of the road - get t-boned by a motorcycle - another group of people with their "WATCH OUT FOR MOTORCYCLE!" stickers everywhere.

Cyclist got farked up bad and the motorcyclist had no helmet, what I don't understand is why cyclist want to be assholes? They expect cars to stop just because they have no protection - but they ignore all laws concerning the road because they believe they own it.

/agree with the guy up top, why do they constantly ride in the middle of a ROAD when there is a sidewalk especially when traffic is around?
//I bike and ride a motorcycle, maybe im a triple asshole on top of being a racist arab, then again my motorcycle is for quiet back roads on a sunday and biking is for cross country not near roads - frankly I want to preserve my life especially around cars where people text all the time

With the exception of speeding and the one time I got the ticket for riding on the sidewalk (empty sidewalk, crazy busy road), I've not ever broken a traffic law... I'm a total asshole, but I don't race out in front of cars, bust red lights, or do that other stuff because in the battle of 3000lb car v. 150lb me, I am not on the happy end of that physics computation. I know there are some bicyclists who are douchebags, but why stereotype all of them when we know that isn't true... it is a terribly spurious and disingenuous accusation and style of debate to attribute one negative feature to all people who engage in a particular sport or activity.

As both a "cager" and a motorcycle rider, I agree. In a confrontation between me on my bike, and a minivan, it doesn't really matter who is right, I'll be the dead right guy.
Also, I accused noone of anything. I merely propose a simple solution to a hotly debated topic. Do you treat a bicyclist as a car or as a ped ...


Like I said, I'm down for being treated like a scooter or whatever... I obey signage, signal my turns, and stop for red lights. The only time I came close to an incident with a car, the car just kind of unexpectedly (unsignaled) pulled over into the bike lane, stopped abruptly, then opened the door fully on the passenger side,... even though they were clearly the ones having issues following the law, when I jumped the curb onto the sidewalk to dodge them, they still felt the need to scream profanity at me for riding on the sidewalk (their vehicle obstructed all of the bike lane and most of the sidewalk with the open door. Frankly, I think what's needed is just an end to this whole "me first" mentality that plagues both drivers and bicyclists alike... life isn't a farking race... you don't get a prize for being home 3 minutes sooner, and you don't even know where the guy in front of you lives, so how is it that it is such a huge priority to get in front of him so you can beat him home? Regardless of whether you are in a car or on a bike, when you're going fast, you should respect the fact that regardless of whose fault it is, if someone screws up (and definitely if both of you screw up), there is a fair chance that someone is gonna end up in the hospital or dead. Whether you're the guy piloting a couple tons of explosion-powered steel at breakneck speeds or you're the guy who can actually do 25 mph by stripping down all the tons of steel and going under your own power, you need to have an appropriate level of respect for what you are doing, and an appropriate level of respect for the people and the environment around you.
 
2013-09-25 06:58:59 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


That. I yelled at one doing that a few months back - in retrospect, I likely sounded like a bit of a 'tard for yelling at her to get the fark out of the road, but WTF, that stretch has shoulders 3 feet wide. There's no excuse for me to be forced to either follow or pass her over a double yellow. There is never ANY excuse for a car to be stuck behind some arsehole cyclist like that.
 
2013-09-25 07:00:32 PM  

Luse: Luse: firefly212: Luse: firefly212: Luse: There is a simple answer. Apply all motorcycle laws to bicycles in the road. Enforce it.

I already can't get a farking drivers license b/c of my MS, now you want to take my bike away too? How am I supposed to get to work? Teleportation...

Would you still object if the Driver's License requirement was amended or waved but you still were held responsible for the other parts. Lane sharing, running reds, having to pull over if more than 5 cars are following you etc.?

I'm cool with most of that, but on some of these mtn roads, there isn't exactly a "pull over" option unless you want to fall a few hundred feet.

/much of the state also doesn't believe in guardrails.

Most states with the pull over requirement have designated spots designed for just that. Unfortunately they get used about as frequently as turn signals.

No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.


maybe something got lost in the quote there... but it looks like you're replying to yourself... in a very argumentative way.
 
2013-09-25 07:00:35 PM  
I live between 2 major highways that are connected by two roads in the area, the one I live on and another cross connector about a half mile away, the other road is a straight, paved 2 lane road with sidewalks and bike lanes, a 45 MPH speed limit, through trucks are prohibited on it, and to make it nicer it is not built up much yet so it has a lot of country scenery to view, the road I live on is a narrow 2 lane road that is a STAA access route (IE heavy truck route) with no sidewalks, bike lanes or shoulder, has a 60 MPH speed limit, and is a light industrial/farm area so the view isn't much just farmland and a few light industrial shops (like mine) yet the local bike club uses it instead of the nicer road not a half mile away, why? because it is more "challenging" which it is if your idea of a challenge is finding a way to dodge semis going 65 when you have no shoulder to duck onto while going around blind corners, all the while smelling the fine odors of pigstys mixed with fertilizer and industrial solvents....


/cyclists must have a death wish is all I can figure out
 
2013-09-25 07:02:22 PM  

Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned


lol, that makes more sense now
 
2013-09-25 07:03:50 PM  
commuteorlando.com

Taking the lane is the safest option, for the bicyclist and for the driver behind them.  Drivers, all you have to do is pass legally, by moving into the other lane when it is safe to do so.  If you can't pass safely, then don't pass.
 
2013-09-25 07:04:19 PM  
Cyclists can have their bike lanes, when I have my decriminalization of smearing obnoxious cyclists across a half-mile of pavement.
 
2013-09-25 07:05:15 PM  
This will end really well when the cabbies that know the markings are bullshiat ignore them, and the cyclists assume that they're immune to car crashes if they stick to them.
 
2013-09-25 07:06:52 PM  

waterrockets: Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.

So we're going to rate the red-light running? Watch cars stop on red when turning right. Watch cars sneak through turning left. good luck finding a light with none of them. Go ahead and tell me these never cause accidents.


I never claimed cars didn't cause accidents. I just want to contest that if I sit at any red light for 5 minutes I'll see a car blow through a red light like a cyclist does. The cyclists here absolutely give zero shiats about the red light. They just drive through them like they're not there - and not accidentally. Not like the guy who doesn't see it. There's a moment where they go from "I'm a car so I'm driving in a full lane" to "I'm on a bicycle so the lights don't apply to me."

StopLurkListen: Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.

I should know better than to argue with your imaginary anecdote, but have you ever waited for a traffic signal that never turned green for you? If you're waiting in your car for a signal to turn green for you, and after seeing the opposite streets cycle through but still not give you a green, what did you do?

All the traffic signals around here have magnetic loop detectors that are set to recognize cars, but not smaller objects like bicycles. Sometimes there's a specific, marked bike detector, but about 10% of the time they don't work, either. After a dozen or more of these traffic signalized intersections designed for cars, cyclists tend to slow, look, and go when they think it's safe.


And that's not what I was talking about at all in my post stating that you won't see cars drive through red lights at *any intersection* if you wait 5 minutes like the poster I quoted claimed. I feel your pain on not being "sensed" but I see cyclists drive right through traffic lights and on/off the sidewalk all the time.
 
2013-09-25 07:09:00 PM  

StopLurkListen: Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.

I should know better than to argue with your imaginary anecdote, but have you ever waited for a traffic signal that never turned green for you? If you're waiting in your car for a signal to turn green for you, and after seeing the opposite streets cycle through but still not give you a green, what did you do?

All the traffic signals around here have magnetic loop detectors that are set to recognize cars, but not smaller objects like bicycles. Sometimes there's a specific, marked bike detector, but about 10% of the time they don't work, either. After a dozen or more of these traffic signalized intersections designed for cars, cyclists tend to slow, look, and go when they think it's safe.


So use the cross-walk love. It's for pedestrians. But get off your bike in the cross-walk. Because it's for pedestrians.
 
2013-09-25 07:09:06 PM  

I alone am best: ZeroPly: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

I know a few people who've biked in Tokyo, and it's safe precisely because the bicycling rules are NOT enforced. Police turn a blind eye to two people on a bike, cruising through stops, etc. At the same time, they've come up with unwritten societal rules to keep it safe, so if you're weaving around with a BAC of 0.15, yeah, you'll probably be in trouble.

Americans can't stare down the road unless there are lines carefully painted for them. When they go to other countries where for example, there are no center lines painted, they lose their f*cking minds and can't imagine how a few thousand people a day aren't dying in wrong way crashes. A lot of this is using some common sense and thinking on your feet, which apparently American drivers are incapable of.

Your post is filled with bullshiat.


People in those countries do die more frequently.
 
2013-09-25 07:10:55 PM  

Treygreen13: waterrockets: Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.

So we're going to rate the red-light running? Watch cars stop on red when turning right. Watch cars sneak through turning left. good luck finding a light with none of them. Go ahead and tell me these never cause accidents.

I never claimed cars didn't cause accidents. I just want to contest that if I sit at any red light for 5 minutes I'll see a car blow through a red light like a cyclist does. The cyclists here absolutely give zero shiats about the red light. They just drive through them like they're not there - and not accidentally. Not like the guy who doesn't see it. There's a moment where they go from "I'm a car so I'm driving in a full lane" to "I'm on a bicycle so the lights don't apply to me."

StopLurkListen: Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.

I should know better than to argue with your imaginary anecdote, but have you ever waited for a traffic signal that never turned green for you? If you're waiting in your car for a signal to turn green for you, and after seeing the opposite streets cycle through but still not give you a green, what did you do?

All the traffic signals around here have magnetic loop detectors that are set to recognize cars, but not smaller objects like bicycles. Sometimes there's a specific, ma ...


I don't know where you live, but that's a bit of an exaggeration. Furthermore, it would be a bullshiat comparison. Let's take, what percentage of cars vs what percentage of bicyclists run reds. You'll find that it's a huge difference. Hell, some of them proudly profess it here on this very site! In this very thread!!! Can you believe it?
How many people on this site proudly profess that they run reds regularly in their car?
 
2013-09-25 07:14:22 PM  

Calmamity: I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation


REALLY ?!?!?!?!

do you know how much pollution is involved in the mining materials, drilling and refining petroleum, and manufacturing, shipping and advertising bicycles ? they are farking horrible. hemp sandals are the only  non-polluting transportationyou speak of.
 
2013-09-25 07:16:10 PM  

Pribar: I live between 2 major highways that are connected by two roads in the area, the one I live on and another cross connector about a half mile away, the other road is a straight, paved 2 lane road with sidewalks and bike lanes, a 45 MPH speed limit, through trucks are prohibited on it, and to make it nicer it is not built up much yet so it has a lot of country scenery to view, the road I live on is a narrow 2 lane road that is a STAA access route (IE heavy truck route) with no sidewalks, bike lanes or shoulder, has a 60 MPH speed limit, and is a light industrial/farm area so the view isn't much just farmland and a few light industrial shops (like mine) yet the local bike club uses it instead of the nicer road not a half mile away, why? because it is more "challenging" which it is if your idea of a challenge is finding a way to dodge semis going 65 when you have no shoulder to duck onto while going around blind corners, all the while smelling the fine odors of pigstys mixed with fertilizer and industrial solvents....


/cyclists must have a death wish is all I can figure out


https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Berthoud+Pass&hl=en&ll=39.79604,-105. 77 5337&spn=0.025785,0.055747&sll=39.930331,-105.799159&sspn=0.102938,0.2 22988&oq=berthoud+pas&t=h&hnear=Berthoud+Pass&z=15

I cannot begin to tell you how many people take this pass, on icy days, at 60+ mph, assuming that because there's road there, it's safe to do the speed limit... my neck of the woods sees way more dead motorists than bikers, not because they have a deathwish, but because they have this totally unearned and irrational sense of safety.
 
2013-09-25 07:16:57 PM  

Calmamity: .. but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road.


The fun starts when cyclists use shared cycle/pedestrian footpaths. The sort of issues that car drivers rage about (and the cyclists act holier that thou over) surface again and its the cyclists turn to rage.

Ie, the cyclists that just caused a traffic jam riding 2 abreast (because they have a right to) then get stuck behind 2 pedestrians riding 2 abreast and they lose. the. farken. plot.

"Single file! Keep to the left!* Get out of the way! Your slowing us down!"

(I am not American)

It's hilarious.
 
2013-09-25 07:17:44 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: Calmamity: I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation

REALLY ?!?!?!?!

do you know how much pollution is involved in the mining materials, drilling and refining petroleum, and manufacturing, shipping and advertising bicycles ? they are farking horrible. hemp sandals are the only  non-polluting transportationyou speak of.


Ahh finally... one of the guys who is also gonna clue us on on how CFLs are going to destroy the planet.

Do you have any feelings on vaccinations or global warming while you're on this moronic kick?
 
2013-09-25 07:19:31 PM  
cdn.teamcococdn.com

It's got to be this guy. He's so edgy he takes his feet off the pedals of his pedicab. Although, I hear he's delivering Chinese food now...
 
2013-09-25 07:20:13 PM  

firefly212: Mimic_Octopus: Calmamity: I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation

REALLY ?!?!?!?!

do you know how much pollution is involved in the mining materials, drilling and refining petroleum, and manufacturing, shipping and advertising bicycles ? they are farking horrible. hemp sandals are the only  non-polluting transportationyou speak of.

Ahh finally... one of the guys who is also gonna clue us on on how CFLs are going to destroy the planet.

Do you have any feelings on vaccinations or global warming while you're on this moronic kick?


Besides, hemp sandals? Farking elitist. What's wrong with your feet?
 
2013-09-25 07:21:03 PM  
Luse
Let's take, what percentage of cars vs what percentage of bicyclists run reds. You'll find that it's a huge difference.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-25 07:22:44 PM  

firefly212: Mimic_Octopus: Calmamity: I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation

REALLY ?!?!?!?!

do you know how much pollution is involved in the mining materials, drilling and refining petroleum, and manufacturing, shipping and advertising bicycles ? they are farking horrible. hemp sandals are the only  non-polluting transportationyou speak of.

Ahh finally... one of the guys who is also gonna clue us on on how CFLs are going to destroy the planet.

Do you have any feelings on vaccinations or global warming while you're on this moronic kick?


you have no idea where metal or rubber come from do you ?  hint : not your garden
 
2013-09-25 07:23:49 PM  

firefly212: Mimic_Octopus: Calmamity: I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation

REALLY ?!?!?!?!

do you know how much pollution is involved in the mining materials, drilling and refining petroleum, and manufacturing, shipping and advertising bicycles ? they are farking horrible. hemp sandals are the only  non-polluting transportationyou speak of.

Ahh finally... one of the guys who is also gonna clue us on on how CFLs are going to destroy the planet.

Do you have any feelings on vaccinations or global warming while you're on this moronic kick?


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-09-25 07:24:12 PM  

The Voice of Doom: Luse
Let's take, what percentage of cars vs what percentage of bicyclists run reds. You'll find that it's a huge difference.

[i.imgur.com image 850x669]


I think that you may find the average bicyclist, motorcyclist and indeed, motorist is quite different in California then they are in Germany. But thanks for showing us how far you have to reach.
 
2013-09-25 07:25:45 PM  
Luse

I think that you may find the average bicyclist, motorcyclist and indeed, motorist is quite different in California then they are in Germany. But thanks for showing us how far you have to reach


Huh?
 
2013-09-25 07:28:09 PM  
"Don't ride like a douche" is a good mantra to observe, using common sense.I've had trouble with cars, climbing up hills with no shoulders, and cars trying to edge me off the road. Other times, I've gone down hills (with my GPS), hitting 62 mph, passing cars, finding out later it was a 30 mph zone. I've been mashed off the road by illegals, and had things thrown at me. Just be courteous, and give the benefit of the doubt to a possible assh*le.  I've even had soccer moms in minivans cut me off, I'm going 45 or so, and they cut right in front of you to make a turn.  Gotta pay attention all the time, It's not who's right, but who's left.
 
2013-09-25 07:28:23 PM  
That painting should have either one of two things on it:
1. A bulls-eye
2. A generous scattering of tacks

/OK, maybe both
 
2013-09-25 07:30:05 PM  
Your lovely chart is in German if I am not mistaken. It is hardly applicable to the U.S. never mind California. The cultures are quite different. Bicyclists here will gladly tell you that they run reds or stop signs because they believe they don't apply to them. Some people in this very thread have done that. This goes even further. http://sfist.com/2012/04/05/cyclist_who_struck_pedestrian_at_ca.php
People like that not only brag about it, blog about it, but then write a farking Ode to My Helmet after killing a man.
German stats don't apply to the US. Simple, ya?
 
2013-09-25 07:31:18 PM  
images.wikia.com
 
2013-09-25 07:31:35 PM  

The Voice of Doom: Luse

I think that you may find the average bicyclist, motorcyclist and indeed, motorist is quite different in California then they are in Germany. But thanks for showing us how far you have to reach


Huh?


/Shh, It's because Austrians use words that sound German...Don't annoy the Californian that came from European stock.
 
2013-09-25 07:33:02 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: firefly212: Mimic_Octopus: Calmamity: I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation

REALLY ?!?!?!?!

do you know how much pollution is involved in the mining materials, drilling and refining petroleum, and manufacturing, shipping and advertising bicycles ? they are farking horrible. hemp sandals are the only  non-polluting transportationyou speak of.

Ahh finally... one of the guys who is also gonna clue us on on how CFLs are going to destroy the planet.

Do you have any feelings on vaccinations or global warming while you're on this moronic kick?

you have no idea where metal or rubber come from do you ?  hint : not your garden


I live less than two miles from a mine... so pretty much ya, my garden.
 
2013-09-25 07:34:20 PM  
Drivers aren't the problem.
Cyclists aren't the problem.
Arseholes are the problem. And it's a big problem.
 
2013-09-25 07:35:16 PM  

Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned


So the problem with stopping is that Stopping is a multi-step process.

1) Come to a mostly complete stop.  Your right foot should be slightly in front of the bottom of the rotation.
2) As you finish coming to a complete stop, dismount from the bike by slipping off the front of your seat and planting your left foot against the ground.  If you do this WRONG, expect to get a crotch full of middle bar or fall off the bike since you should be AT LEAST 6 inches off the ground when sitting on your bike seat.  If you can be on the bike seat AND touch the ground with your tiptoes, you're doing it wrong.
2a) There are also creepy people who are probably aliens who dismount by swinging over the back of the bike while it's in motion and standing on one pedal until it stops.  I've tried this and never been able to pull it off (because I'm not that flexible and I have bike racks with baskets which I ram with my foot).
3) If you're going straight or right, you're on the right side of the lane.  If you're going left, you're in the left third of the lane.
4) God forbid you have to make a left turn because you just got rear-ended by the car behind you which wasn't expecting you to stop.   In fact, god forbid you have to make any turn because you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to be signalling this entire time which means that you only have one hand and one brake.

Now that you're stopped, to start again:
1) Kick your pedals backwards until they bounce off your right shin.  This will probably cause significant numbers of open sores since the little prongs on your pedal WILL pierce the skin.
2) Put your right foot on the pedal
3) Push off the ground with your left foot as you push forwards with your right and heave yourself into the bike seat.
4) Desperately try NOT to lose control of the bike as you grope for the pedal with your left foot (and miss a non-zero percentage of the time) while having no forwards motion and a significant weight shift.
5) Start pedaling and moving in a (slow) forward motion.
6) Repeat 10 seconds later at the next farking stopsign because CA is farking stupid.

This whole evolution takes about 10-20 seconds, adds significant risk of injury, is likely to convince the other cars at the all-way stopsign that they should go in front of you (thus risking additional injury when you take off in front of THEM because you finally found the pedal), freaks out the drivers behind you, makes no farking sense in stop-sign crazy California neighborhoods where walking is significantly faster than doing this bullshiat, and is just stupid.

Or you can stop to the point where you can barely control the bike (There ARE people who can keep the bike up when it's entirely stopped.  I am not one of them.  I can go just slow enough that I can take my place at the 4-way stop and wait until it's my turn to go), look left, look right, and go if there's no cars.  If there ARE cars, you should stop and do this evolution.

/Besides, they don't call it a California stop for nothing.  Maybe CA should invest in some yield signs and longer neighborhood roads so that you aren't stopping *brake* Every *brake* 50 *brake* feet *brake*.
 
2013-09-25 07:35:36 PM  

ThisIsntMe: The Voice of Doom: Luse

I think that you may find the average bicyclist, motorcyclist and indeed, motorist is quite different in California then they are in Germany. But thanks for showing us how far you have to reach


Huh?

/Shh, It's because Austrians use words that sound German...Don't annoy the Californian that came from European stock.


Dear Sir. Firstly, my apologies about my inexcusable inability to differentiate Austrian from German.
I must however insist, that you cease and desist the slanderous name calling. I find accusations of me being a "Californian" deeply hurtful.

Sincerely,

Luse the "Never been Californian"
 
2013-09-25 07:40:37 PM  

meyerkev: Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned

So the problem with stopping is that Stopping is a multi-step process.

1) Come to a mostly complete stop.  Your right foot should be slightly in front of the bottom of the rotation.
2) As you finish coming to a complete stop, dismount from the bike by slipping off the front of your seat and planting your left foot against the ground.  If you do this WRONG, expect to get a crotch full of middle bar or fall off the bike since you should be AT LEAST 6 inches off the ground when sitting on your bike seat.  If you can be on the bike seat AND touch the ground with your tiptoes, you're doing it wrong.
2a) There are also creepy people who are probably aliens who dismount by swinging over the back of the bike while it's in motion and standing on one pedal until it stops.  I've tried this and never been able to pull it off (because I'm not that flexible and I have bike racks with baskets which I ram with my foot).
3) If you're going straight or right, you're on the right side of the lane.  If you're going left, you're in the left third of the lane.
4) God forbid you have to make a left turn because you just got rear-ended by the car behind you which wasn't expecting you to stop.   In fact, god forbid you have to make any turn because you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to be signalling this entire time which means that you only have one hand and one brake.

Now that you're stopped, to start again:
1) Kick your pedals backwards until they bounce off your right shin.  This will probably cause significant numbers of open sores since the little prongs on your pedal WILL pierce the skin.
2) Put your right foot on the pedal
3) Push off the ...


I ride a motorcycle. I won't bore you with the details, but stops on those are also involved.
What you are asking for is special treatment. You demand the same rights as every other vehicle on the road, but make excuses for why you can't act like every other vehicle on the road.
If you cannot be on the road, and follow all of it's rules, you should either change your route, or your vehicle. Riding a bicycle is not some special right that waves your responsibility to the law. The "i'm a vehicle until it's inconvenient" thinking is what generates the hatred for bicycles.
I've got no issues with bikers like firefly2012 and I would stand beside him when he argues that he deserves a share of the road. I can't say the same for you.

He has MS and can still do the entire process, why can't you?
 
2013-09-25 07:41:18 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

Bikes are mostly relegated to the sidewalk, as is appropriate since they aren't safe enough to ride on the roads with traffic.

Here's your sign
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1133]


In many cities, including New York City, it's illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. And that law is seriously enforced.
 
2013-09-25 07:43:22 PM  

Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.


Jury nullification, except by a group of bicyclists.

Im ok with this.
 
2013-09-25 07:49:41 PM  
Well in some states tampering with a traffic control device is a FELONY. Have fun picking up the soap
 
2013-09-25 07:51:17 PM  

Luse: meyerkev: Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned

So the problem with stopping is that Stopping is a multi-step process.

1) Come to a mostly complete stop.  Your right foot should be slightly in front of the bottom of the rotation.
2) As you finish coming to a complete stop, dismount from the bike by slipping off the front of your seat and planting your left foot against the ground.  If you do this WRONG, expect to get a crotch full of middle bar or fall off the bike since you should be AT LEAST 6 inches off the ground when sitting on your bike seat.  If you can be on the bike seat AND touch the ground with your tiptoes, you're doing it wrong.
2a) There are also creepy people who are probably aliens who dismount by swinging over the back of the bike while it's in motion and standing on one pedal until it stops.  I've tried this and never been able to pull it off (because I'm not that flexible and I have bike racks with baskets which I ram with my foot).
3) If you're going straight or right, you're on the right side of the lane.  If you're going left, you're in the left third of the lane.
4) God forbid you have to make a left turn because you just got rear-ended by the car behind you which wasn't expecting you to stop.   In fact, god forbid you have to make any turn because you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to be signalling this entire time which means that you only have one hand and one brake.

Now that you're stopped, to start again:
1) Kick your pedals backwards until they bounce off your right shin.  This will probably cause significant numbers of open sores since the little prongs on your pedal WILL pierce the skin.
2) Put your right foot on the pedal
3) Pus ...


I must be some kind of savant bicycle rider because stopping a bike has never been the time consuming, self mutilating experience you describe.
 
2013-09-25 07:54:03 PM  
Sadly, this is one of the least adversarial and insane things I've heard from biking activists in a while.
 
2013-09-25 07:55:49 PM  

Gerrok: Luse: meyerkev: Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned

So the problem with stopping is that Stopping is a multi-step process.

1) Come to a mostly complete stop.  Your right foot should be slightly in front of the bottom of the rotation.
2) As you finish coming to a complete stop, dismount from the bike by slipping off the front of your seat and planting your left foot against the ground.  If you do this WRONG, expect to get a crotch full of middle bar or fall off the bike since you should be AT LEAST 6 inches off the ground when sitting on your bike seat.  If you can be on the bike seat AND touch the ground with your tiptoes, you're doing it wrong.
2a) There are also creepy people who are probably aliens who dismount by swinging over the back of the bike while it's in motion and standing on one pedal until it stops.  I've tried this and never been able to pull it off (because I'm not that flexible and I have bike racks with baskets which I ram with my foot).
3) If you're going straight or right, you're on the right side of the lane.  If you're going left, you're in the left third of the lane.
4) God forbid you have to make a left turn because you just got rear-ended by the car behind you which wasn't expecting you to stop.   In fact, god forbid you have to make any turn because you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to be signalling this entire time which means that you only have one hand and one brake.

Now that you're stopped, to start again:
1) Kick your pedals backwards until they bounce off your right shin.  This will probably cause significant numbers of open sores since the little prongs on your pedal WILL pierce the skin.
2) Put your right foot on the pedal
...

Well, truth be told, neither have I. I do own a bike, 2 in fact, one for the Missus. We go ride on the trails maybe 5 times a year. I must admit, other than an embarrassing amount of sweat I've never suffered a major injury such as shattered balls or tenderized shins. Perhaps, being a n00b I'm doing it wrong?
 
2013-09-25 07:59:05 PM  

I alone am best: ZeroPly: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

I know a few people who've biked in Tokyo, and it's safe precisely because the bicycling rules are NOT enforced. Police turn a blind eye to two people on a bike, cruising through stops, etc. At the same time, they've come up with unwritten societal rules to keep it safe, so if you're weaving around with a BAC of 0.15, yeah, you'll probably be in trouble.

Americans can't stare down the road unless there are lines carefully painted for them. When they go to other countries where for example, there are no center lines painted, they lose their f*cking minds and can't imagine how a few thousand people a day aren't dying in wrong way crashes. A lot of this is using some common sense and thinking on your feet, which apparently American drivers are incapable of.

Your post is filled with bullshiat.


Japans insurance rules are different than ours.  In a nutshell, the bigger vehicle always takes more liability in and accident.  Regardless of how in the wrong a cyclist is, they will always "win" in an accident as the larger vehicle is taxed with the responsibility of "caring" for the smaller vehicles he shares the road with.  I was involve in an accident a few years back in which I broadsided a driver running a stop sign.  Despite a confession from the driver that they had run the sign, the insurance determination was that my insurance pay 20% damage costs for their totaled vehicle, whereas they were to pay 80% of the $800 in damages to my car.  I was driving a 33 plate- larger than 2.4 liter engine-- whereas their car was a yellow plate (less than 500cc) so being the larger of the 2 vehicles, I would start at a minimal of 20% responsibility regardless of who was to blame.

Japanese drivers live in terror of involving a motorcycle, bike, or pedestrian in an accident as it is a battle they are predestined to lose.  Bike riders know this and tend to be pretty reckless when hitting the streets.

Accidents do occur there quite frequently as driving home either on bike or in a car drunk is a common occurrence born more often than not within the workplace culture.  When the boss say drink, you drink.  but that's another tale for another day
 
2013-09-25 08:06:43 PM  

Luse: ThisIsntMe: The Voice of Doom: Luse

I think that you may find the average bicyclist, motorcyclist and indeed, motorist is quite different in California then they are in Germany. But thanks for showing us how far you have to reach


Huh?

/Shh, It's because Austrians use words that sound German...Don't annoy the Californian that came from European stock.

Dear Sir. Firstly, my apologies about my inexcusable inability to differentiate Austrian from German.
I must however insist, that you cease and desist the slanderous name calling. I find accusations of me being a "Californian" deeply hurtful.

Sincerely,

Luse the "Never been Californian"


I, as a matter of gentility do say that I apologize. My inference of Californian was based upon your statement that drew California cycle law into a discussion about an article based in NY and defended by an Austrian . Nevertheless, please accept my full apology, I was in the wrong. If there is aught I can do to mend these ties please let me know.

THIS  "Just THIS"
 
2013-09-25 08:08:44 PM  

doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.


I get in fights with cyclists all the time. Probably because I pick them, but that's beside the point.

People ride all over the sidewalk even though you're really not supposed to. Then they have the audacity to ring their farking bell at you. It infuriates me. That crackdown on cyclists in Osaka the other day gave me the most awesomest boner.

Anyways, riding on the sidewalk and a cultural aversion to personal conflict, is why they have fewer cyclist/driver spats.
 
2013-09-25 08:12:02 PM  
I love the biker response of "Well, cars go through stop lights and red lights too!". Yep, and those guys are a-holes, just like the cyclists that do it. I would think that aside from trying to abide by the rules, most cyclist would know they are pretty exposed...even if they have their own bike lane...and would do everything they could to avoid getting into a bad situation.
 
2013-09-25 08:16:11 PM  

ThisIsntMe: Luse: ThisIsntMe: The Voice of Doom: Luse

I think that you may find the average bicyclist, motorcyclist and indeed, motorist is quite different in California then they are in Germany. But thanks for showing us how far you have to reach


Huh?

/Shh, It's because Austrians use words that sound German...Don't annoy the Californian that came from European stock.

Dear Sir. Firstly, my apologies about my inexcusable inability to differentiate Austrian from German.
I must however insist, that you cease and desist the slanderous name calling. I find accusations of me being a "Californian" deeply hurtful.

Sincerely,

Luse the "Never been Californian"

I, as a matter of gentility do say that I apologize. My inference of Californian was based upon your statement that drew California cycle law into a discussion about an article based in NY and defended by an Austrian . Nevertheless, please accept my full apology, I was in the wrong. If there is aught I can do to mend these ties please let me know.

THIS  "Just THIS"


We have no quarrel Sir.
Perhaps my mind that confused Austrian for German similarly confused New York for California. You must admit, New York has had a drastic change in it's "sensibilities". Where once it was the symbol of freedom and finally having made it, now it is illegal to sell a beverage that comes in too big a container.
Also in my defense, the "entitled biker" seems to be an American breed that defies localization. It appears to be more partial to large population densities, rather than a particular region of the country.
 
2013-09-25 08:16:22 PM  

hailin: I almost hit a cyclist the other day. I was at a stop light going to turn right. I didn't pass a cyclist on the way to the stop light, so they must have turned onto the road after I passed. They came up on my right side as I made my turn as the light turned green. They flipped me off and yelled at me. I still feel bad, but honestly never even thought about checking over my right shoulder making a right turn. I sure will from now on, but I wonder whose fault it would have been if an accident had happened.


Now maybe people can understand why us asshole bikers ride in the middle of the lane.

CSB:
Portland, june, 6pm crusing down Stark about 30mph.
An old lady passes me and turns right in front of me. If weren't a very alert and capable rider I would have been crushed. I slammed her door as a reminder to her to look for bicycles. I was riding a one-of-kind chopper bicycle that is so hard to miss I would contend it was impossible for the driver to not have seen me as she passed me with 20 feet to the corner. thank goodness for hydrolic disc brakes or I would have had no chance of stopping in time. 10 inch rotors FTW!  My front wheel was about 3 inches from hitting her front tire. I was more worried about the bike getting broken than getting hurt.
 
2013-09-25 08:16:56 PM  

firefly212: With the exception of speeding and the one time I got the ticket for riding on the sidewalk (empty sidewalk, crazy busy road), I've not ever broken a traffic law... I'm a total asshole, but I don't race out in front of cars, bust red lights, or do that other stuff because in the battle of 3000lb car v. 150lb me, I am not on the happy end of that physics computation. I know there are some bicyclists who are douchebags, but why stereotype all of them when we know that isn't true... it is a terribly spurious and disingenuous accusation and style of debate to attribute one negative feature to all people who engage in a particular sport or activity.


Stereotypes - where a small percentage of people ruin it for the rest of us. Look at Arabs, just because a few jackasses did some bad things on 9/11 now every time I speak hebrew or hungarian I have half a room looking at me like i'm Al Qaeda or Al Cracka.
Stereotypes will never go away, cyclist are always assholes no matter if they are green, vegan or not :)

Tree hugging cyclist can rot in hell too!
 
2013-09-25 08:19:24 PM  

ActionJoe: I love the biker response of "Well, cars go through stop lights and red lights too!". Yep, and those guys are a-holes, just like the cyclists that do it. I would think that aside from trying to abide by the rules, most cyclist would know they are pretty exposed...even if they have their own bike lane...and would do everything they could to avoid getting into a bad situation.


That's what confuses me most about the whole thing. As mentioned, I ride a motorcycle. I feel pretty farking exposed every time I'm out there. The old adage, "It's not who's right, it's who's left." rings incredibly true. Now on my bike, I've got about 55 horsepower that can help me GTFO should I need to. On a bicycle you've got your chicken legs yet you act like you're in an invincibility bubble.

Proof positive that complete self delusion is not only a Republican disease.
 
2013-09-25 08:20:28 PM  
I very rarely see a cyclist stop at a stop sign, stop light, Red Hand, or basically follow any vehicle law ever.

We live in a resort town.  Idiots are all over the place.  We are far too kind to bicycles.  If you want to go ride your little bicycle, hop on the sidewalk or go to the dog park.  Some of us actually work for a living.

And I say that because you guys take the busy main streets.  Maybe you could take the side streets?  Sorry if no one will see you riding around on your bicycle but.. it doesn't make you famous.  Really.
 
2013-09-25 08:21:30 PM  

meyerkev: Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned

So the problem with stopping is that Stopping is a multi-step process.

1) Come to a mostly complete stop.  Your right foot should be slightly in front of the bottom of the rotation.
2) As you finish coming to a complete stop, dismount from the bike by slipping off the front of your seat and planting your left foot against the ground.  If you do this WRONG, expect to get a crotch full of middle bar or fall off the bike since you should be AT LEAST 6 inches off the ground when sitting on your bike seat.  If you can be on the bike seat AND touch the ground with your tiptoes, you're doing it wrong.
2a) There are also creepy people who are probably aliens who dismount by swinging over the back of the bike while it's in motion and standing on one pedal until it stops.  I've tried this and never been able to pull it off (because I'm not that flexible and I have bike racks with baskets which I ram with my foot).
3) If you're going straight or right, you're on the right side of the lane.  If you're going left, you're in the left third of the lane.
4) God forbid you have to make a left turn because you just got rear-ended by the car behind you which wasn't expecting you to stop.   In fact, god forbid you have to make any turn because you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to be signalling this entire time which means that you only have one hand and one brake.

Now that you're stopped, to start again:
1) Kick your pedals backwards until they bounce off your right shin.  This will probably cause significant numbers of open sores since the little prongs on your pedal WILL pierce the skin.
2) Put your right foot on the pedal
3) Push off the ...


What the hell is wrong with you?

If you can't touch the ground with BOTH feet on tiptoes, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG, your seat is set WAY too high.  If you can't put BOTH feet flat on the ground, you're at least a little too high.

And if you're bouncing pedals off of your shin to start, you're a complete idiot.
 
2013-09-25 08:22:50 PM  

TomD9938: FTA : "We're doing something for the public good," said Keegan Stephan... "So I think it's O.K., even if it's illegal."

Keegan sounds Somalian.



encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-09-25 08:24:05 PM  

ZzeusS: We live in a resort town.  Idiots are all over the place.


We live in America - where assholes are everywhere. Fixed it for ya
 
2013-09-25 08:29:10 PM  
I drive to work on a road that is very popular with cyclists, and have never had an issue with them. They all seem to stop at the stop lights, they stay in the bike lanes, and they seem genuinely courtious. I have, at other times, seen cyclists who run a stop sign or don't pay attention, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.
 
2013-09-25 08:30:51 PM  

meyerkev: Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned

So the problem with stopping is that Stopping is a multi-step process.

1) Come to a mostly complete stop.  Your right foot should be slightly in front of the bottom of the rotation.
2) As you finish coming to a complete stop, dismount from the bike by slipping off the front of your seat and planting your left foot against the ground.  If you do this WRONG, expect to get a crotch full of middle bar or fall off the bike since you should be AT LEAST 6 inches off the ground when sitting on your bike seat.  If you can be on the bike seat AND touch the ground with your tiptoes, you're doing it wrong.
2a) There are also creepy people who are probably aliens who dismount by swinging over the back of the bike while it's in motion and standing on one pedal until it stops.  I've tried this and never been able to pull it off (because I'm not that flexible and I have bike racks with baskets which I ram with my foot).
3) If you're going straight or right, you're on the right side of the lane.  If you're going left, you're in the left third of the lane.
4) God forbid you have to make a left turn because you just got rear-ended by the car behind you which wasn't expecting you to stop.   In fact, god forbid you have to make any turn because you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to be signalling this entire time which means that you only have one hand and one brake.

Now that you're stopped, to start again:
1) Kick your pedals backwards until they bounce off your right shin.  This will probably cause significant numbers of open sores since the little prongs on your pedal WILL pierce the skin.
2) Put your right foot on the pedal
3) Push off the ...


In almost 20 years of cycling in London I never once experienced a stop like the one you describe. Are you using some sort of racing bike on congested roads with stop signs and traffic lights instead of on the unobstructed track it was designed for? If so you've chosen a shiat tool for the task at hand.
 
2013-09-25 08:33:52 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.

Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.


Logically, bicycles should have the right of way. They're greener, healthier, and cheaper.
 
2013-09-25 08:35:46 PM  

Token Anarchist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.

Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.

Logically, bicycles should have the right of way. They're greener, healthier, and cheaper.


Your reasons are not logical at all. Your reasons that bikes should have the right of way are purely emotional.
 
2013-09-25 08:36:30 PM  
We have no quarrel Sir.
Perhaps my mind that confused Austrian for German similarly confused New York for California. You must admit, New York has had a drastic change in it's "sensibilities". Where once it was the symbol of freedom and finally having made it, now it is illegal to sell a beverage that comes in too big a container.
Also in my defense, the "entitled biker" seems to be an American breed that defies localization. It appears to be more partial to large population densities, rather than a particular region of the country.



I find your elucidation of the current state of the once heartfelt "NY NY" to be quite sound. And I also agree that the American breed "entitled biker' is in fact not a localized character. I have encountered the beast in the wild in not only Manhattan but Atlanta and even Washington D.C. It does seem silly to belittle a group that settles on the fringes of Human Society. So I will simply say that they appear to be pedestrians.
 
2013-09-25 08:38:14 PM  

Token Anarchist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.

Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.

Logically, bicycles should have the right of way. They're greener, healthier, and cheaper.


You can have it as soon as we transfer all of the taxes and fees that pay for the roads from motor vehicles onto your bicycle. You get what you pay for.
I on the other hand will take the extra money and extend my vacation by a week.
 
2013-09-25 08:38:26 PM  

Gerrok: I must be some kind of savant bicycle rider because stopping a bike has never been the time consuming, self mutilating experience you describe.


Well, there's 2 things.

1) You know how the crazy bikers say that if you really want to get power, you should be able to fully extend your leg.  And as a side effect, this means that you can't touch the ground without leaning WAY over (and thus out of the bike lane).

They're totally right.  I raised my bike seat height 2 inches, and cut 15-20 minutes off my 70 minute ride home from work.  And since my bike ride home is about 60% neighborhood w/o stop signs or bike trail, that's worth doing even when it means that a stop is a dismount (since I can go 30 minutes from Cal Ave to Mountain View and only need to stop three times).

The flip side is that coming to a complete stop (vs. coming to a 99% complete stop where the bike has almost no to no forward motion while you make sure that no one is coming or wait for the intersection to clear at an all-way stop) is the same thing as doing a complete and total dismount with heaving and middle-bar-into-crotching as described.  The exception is if you can use the curb to place your foot on (which you can't, because of street parking.  I suppose I could brace on their cars, but the last time I did that, I broke a couple of ribs).

When I know that I'm going to be doing significant road biking with lots of stop signs/lights (vs. trail biking, where you almost never, ever, ever have to come to a  complete halt), I drop the bike seat back to that spot.

2) So I switched from really shiatty plastic pedals to much nicer metal pedals that don't crack when you apply pressure to them.  Before that happened, I got in the habit of using my shin to stop the pedals when I was getting them in "launch position" (just forwards of the highest point).  The new pedals happened to have little prongs to hold your foot in place.

So now every time I use my shin to stop the pedals (and it's the fastest way BY FAR to get the pedals up to the correct spot so I still do it when time is sensitive because I'm at a 4-way stop and it's clear or the light turned green just as I stopped at it (which happens depressingly often)), the prongs proceed to slam into my shin at high speed and cut it up.

And let's be clear:

Stop Light: Stop. Wait for light to turn green.
Not All-way stop sign: Stop.
All-way stop sign with cars at it: Stop.
All-way stop sign without cars at it: Yield (Brake HARD, look all ways while wobbling, stop (full dismount)  if necessary. AKA an Idaho-style stop).  There's a difference between "Yield" and "Blow through screaming".
 
2013-09-25 08:43:15 PM  

ThisIsntMe: StopLurkListen: Treygreen13: waterrockets: Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red.

Any lighted instersection? Really? Not that I keep 5 minute videos of lighted intersections but I bet I could walk outside right now, film, and I wouldn't see a car blow through the red light like a cyclist will.

I should know better than to argue with your imaginary anecdote, but have you ever waited for a traffic signal that never turned green for you? If you're waiting in your car for a signal to turn green for you, and after seeing the opposite streets cycle through but still not give you a green, what did you do?

All the traffic signals around here have magnetic loop detectors that are set to recognize cars, but not smaller objects like bicycles. Sometimes there's a specific, marked bike detector, but about 10% of the time they don't work, either. After a dozen or more of these traffic signalized intersections designed for cars, cyclists tend to slow, look, and go when they think it's safe.

So use the cross-walk love. It's for pedestrians. But get off your bike in the cross-walk. Because it's for pedestrians.


Same rule applies for when you need to get off the street to let traffic pass.
 
2013-09-25 08:47:03 PM  

meyerkev: Gerrok: I must be some kind of savant bicycle rider because stopping a bike has never been the time consuming, self mutilating experience you describe.

Well, there's 2 things.

1) You know how the crazy bikers say that if you really want to get power, you should be able to fully extend your leg.  And as a side effect, this means that you can't touch the ground without leaning WAY over (and thus out of the bike lane).

They're totally right.  I raised my bike seat height 2 inches, and cut 15-20 minutes off my 70 minute ride home from work.  And since my bike ride home is about 60% neighborhood w/o stop signs or bike trail, that's worth doing even when it means that a stop is a dismount (since I can go 30 minutes from Cal Ave to Mountain View and only need to stop three times).

The flip side is that coming to a complete stop (vs. coming to a 99% complete stop where the bike has almost no to no forward motion while you make sure that no one is coming or wait for the intersection to clear at an all-way stop) is the same thing as doing a complete and total dismount with heaving and middle-bar-into-crotching as described.  The exception is if you can use the curb to place your foot on (which you can't, because of street parking.  I suppose I could brace on their cars, but the last time I did that, I broke a couple of ribs).

When I know that I'm going to be doing significant road biking with lots of stop signs/lights (vs. trail biking, where you almost never, ever, ever have to come to a  complete halt), I drop the bike seat back to that spot.

2) So I switched from really shiatty plastic pedals to much nicer metal pedals that don't crack when you apply pressure to them.  Before that happened, I got in the habit of using my shin to stop the pedals when I was getting them in "launch position" (just forwards of the highest point).  The new pedals happened to have little prongs to hold your foot in place.

So now every time I use my shin to stop the pedals (and it's the fa ...


Sorry Lance, but aren't you the guy that came into the thread saying, "and a top speed of 10-15 MPH.  (There are people who go faster, but if you're doing that on a road where you're continuously required to stop, you're a) in WAY better shape than me "?

I'm no fancy bicycle rider, and I don't have a fancy bicycle, I paid 50 bucks for it on Craigslist. I do better than those speeds, don't break my balls or my ribs, don't rake my shins, and I ride all of 5 farking times a year. Just because you are either riding some douchetastic fixed gear race bike or are a complete idiot does not mean we will change how traffic flows. You sir, are an idiot. Darwin has a cure.
 
2013-09-25 08:50:34 PM  
fark cyclists.  I used to have a much more congenial attitude, but as it turns out, you guys are almost 100% assholes and hypocrites, so now I don't even try and be nice about it.

Let me paint you a picture, My car has 400hp and weights 4,300lbs.  You will die if you get in my way.

Ride safe.
 
2013-09-25 08:51:20 PM  

meyerkev: Gerrok: I must be some kind of savant bicycle rider because stopping a bike has never been the time consuming, self mutilating experience you describe.

Well, there's 2 things.

1) You know how the crazy bikers say that if you really want to get power, you should be able to fully extend your leg.  And as a side effect, this means that you can't touch the ground without leaning WAY over (and thus out of the bike lane).

They're totally right.  I raised my bike seat height 2 inches, and cut 15-20 minutes off my 70 minute ride home from work.  And since my bike ride home is about 60% neighborhood w/o stop signs or bike trail, that's worth doing even when it means that a stop is a dismount (since I can go 30 minutes from Cal Ave to Mountain View and only need to stop three times).

The flip side is that coming to a complete stop (vs. coming to a 99% complete stop where the bike has almost no to no forward motion while you make sure that no one is coming or wait for the intersection to clear at an all-way stop) is the same thing as doing a complete and total dismount with heaving and middle-bar-into-crotching as described.  The exception is if you can use the curb to place your foot on (which you can't, because of street parking.  I suppose I could brace on their cars, but the last time I did that, I broke a couple of ribs).

When I know that I'm going to be doing significant road biking with lots of stop signs/lights (vs. trail biking, where you almost never, ever, ever have to come to a  complete halt), I drop the bike seat back to that spot.

2) So I switched from really shiatty plastic pedals to much nicer metal pedals that don't crack when you apply pressure to them.  Before that happened, I got in the habit of using my shin to stop the pedals when I was getting them in "launch position" (just forwards of the highest point).  The new pedals happened to have little prongs to hold your foot in place.

So now every time I use my shin to stop the pedals (and it's the fa ...


you need to get yourself a set of toe clips. i don't even use the strap and they still work. makes it easier to get the pedal rotated back up and you also generate more momentum because you're lifting the pedals with your legs as well as pushing down.

www.bywayofbicycle.com
 
2013-09-25 08:51:21 PM  

Likwit: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

I get in fights with cyclists all the time. Probably because I pick them, but that's beside the point.

People ride all over the sidewalk even though you're really not supposed to. Then they have the audacity to ring their farking bell at you. It infuriates me. That crackdown on cyclists in Osaka the other day gave me the most awesomest boner.

Anyways, riding on the sidewalk and a cultural aversion to personal conflict, is why they have fewer cyclist/driver spats.


In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians. Likewise, the bikes get right-of-way versus cars at crosswalks when the light's on their side or when it's a stop sign for the car.

Certain towns may have ordinances to forbid bikes on sidewalks in areas of high foot traffic (downtown areas, mainly) but in many states it's LEGAL, so people can stop grumping about it.
 
2013-09-25 08:53:37 PM  

BadReligion: Token Anarchist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.

Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.

Logically, bicycles should have the right of way. They're greener, healthier, and cheaper.

Your reasons are not logical at all. Your reasons that bikes should have the right of way are purely emotional.


Yeah, this. There's nothing logical about basing transportation engineering on fashionable political values. A bicycle being "greener" literally has no bearing on rights of way.
 
2013-09-25 08:56:10 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Likwit: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

I get in fights with cyclists all the time. Probably because I pick them, but that's beside the point.

People ride all over the sidewalk even though you're really not supposed to. Then they have the audacity to ring their farking bell at you. It infuriates me. That crackdown on cyclists in Osaka the other day gave me the most awesomest boner.

Anyways, riding on the sidewalk and a cultural aversion to personal conflict, is why they have fewer cyclist/driver spats.

In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians. Likewise, the bikes get right-of-way versus cars at crosswalks when the light's on their side or when it's a stop sign for the car.

Certain towns may have ordinances to forbid bikes on sidewalks in areas of high foot traffic (downtown areas, mainly) but in many states it's LEGAL, so people can stop grumping about it.


Right, so because laws are different everywhere, and nobody really knows what the fark the law is anyway, we get people losing limbs. Of course the alternative would be to come up with a simple, uniform rule, like, treat bicycles like scooters, regardless where you go. That way, everyone knows the what the law is, regardless of what town they are in.

I know, madness.
 
2013-09-25 09:00:40 PM  

Luse: a simple, uniform rule, like, treat bicycles like scooters, regardless where you go.


Give bikes lighted turn signals and brake lights, and ticket riders when they disrupt the flow of traffic or otherwise violate traffic laws?

Sounds like a good idea, if you ask me.
 
2013-09-25 09:01:18 PM  
In my perfect world, cities with grid-based street systems would shut down a road every half-mile or so to vehicular traffic during the daytime, and create pedestrian/cyclist lanes in their place.  The best way to keep different transportation modes from colliding is to keep them separated.  Just like The Offspring said to do.

But alas, the businesses along those pedestrian streets would whinge and complain that all their business comes from motorists, and all their supply trucks and garbagemen need 24-hour curbside access, so it will never happen.
 
2013-09-25 09:01:23 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: Taking the lane is the safest option, for the bicyclist and for the driver behind them. Drivers, all you have to do is pass legally, by moving into the other lane when it is safe to do so. If you can't pass safely, then don't pass.


Cool. As a pedestrian I will use the same principle on a shared bike/pedestrian footpath.

Ie, if I walk in the middle of the path it forces the bikes to overtake me properly,
 
2013-09-25 09:15:51 PM  

Luse: ZeroCorpse: Likwit: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

I get in fights with cyclists all the time. Probably because I pick them, but that's beside the point.

People ride all over the sidewalk even though you're really not supposed to. Then they have the audacity to ring their farking bell at you. It infuriates me. That crackdown on cyclists in Osaka the other day gave me the most awesomest boner.

Anyways, riding on the sidewalk and a cultural aversion to personal conflict, is why they have fewer cyclist/driver spats.

In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians. Likewise, the bikes get right-of-way versus cars at crosswalks when the light's on their side or when it's a stop sign for the car.

Certain towns may have ordinances to forbid bikes on sidewalks in areas of high foot traffic (downtown areas, mainly) but in many states it's LEGAL, so people can stop grumping about it.

Right, so because laws are different everywhere, and nobody really knows what the fark the law is anyway, we get people losing limbs. Of course the alternative would be to come up with a simple, uniform rule, like, treat bicycles like scooters, regardless where you go. That way, everyone knows the what the law is, regardless of what town they are in.

I know, madness.


in a large number of Blue States(Like NJ) A Scooter is in fact a motor vehicle. And requires another test and license. Your Auto License doesn't count. So now we are encumbering those poor "Green" individuals with a test to prove they know how to drive and know the rules of the road. I think even in Cali(based upon a movie with Tom Hanks) they require an additional license for scooters. Could you imagine the outcry from cyclists asked to do what we all do to drive?
 
2013-09-25 09:23:01 PM  

ThisIsntMe: serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.

It's not a legally registered and licensed vehicle. Make them pay to register the vehicle and get a licence. Then build them lanes. Get them paying a road tax to use the road. Even Horse and Buggy operators pay a tax and have a licence.
Until then they are fair game.

Oh and don't go into the "But, but pedestrians!" mode. Those Farkers have to cross at a crosswalk and watch the signals or they're fair game too.


And why exactly should they have to pay taxes? Would the flood of new bike registration taxes even pay for the engineering required to widen the street for a bike lane, not to mention the construction?
Or did you not consider this basic economic decision in your blind rage to regulate and tax?
 
2013-09-25 09:26:21 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


It's New York, someone cut their brake lines.
 
2013-09-25 09:28:30 PM  

Luse: ZeroCorpse: Likwit: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

I get in fights with cyclists all the time. Probably because I pick them, but that's beside the point.

People ride all over the sidewalk even though you're really not supposed to. Then they have the audacity to ring their farking bell at you. It infuriates me. That crackdown on cyclists in Osaka the other day gave me the most awesomest boner.

Anyways, riding on the sidewalk and a cultural aversion to personal conflict, is why they have fewer cyclist/driver spats.

In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians. Likewise, the bikes get right-of-way versus cars at crosswalks when the light's on their side or when it's a stop sign for the car.

Certain towns may have ordinances to forbid bikes on sidewalks in areas of high foot traffic (downtown areas, mainly) but in many states it's LEGAL, so people can stop grumping about it.

Right, so because laws are different everywhere, and nobody really knows what the fark the law is anyway, we get people losing limbs. Of course the alternative would be to come up with a simple, uniform rule, like, treat bicycles like scooters, regardless where you go. That way, everyone knows the what the law is, regardless of what town they are in.

I know, madness.


No. If something is technically legal, I should be able to do it regardless of whether or not it makes sense, and no one should be allowed to complain about it.

/Sarcasm.
 
2013-09-25 09:32:27 PM  
Oh goodie, a bike thread.

In which plenty of drivers don't see the irony in biatching about how cyclists aren't following the law and then talk about purposely striking cyclists with their vehicle because the cyclist isn't allowing them to do their normal (read: above the speed limit) speed.
 
2013-09-25 09:33:35 PM  

eatin' fetus: ThisIsntMe: serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.

It's not a legally registered and licensed vehicle. Make them pay to register the vehicle and get a licence. Then build them lanes. Get them paying a road tax to use the road. Even Horse and Buggy operators pay a tax and have a licence.
Until then they are fair game.

Oh and don't go into the "But, but pedestrians!" mode. Those Farkers have to cross at a crosswalk and watch the signals or they're fair game too.

And why exactly should they have to pay taxes? Would the flood of new bike registration taxes even pay for the engineering required to widen the street for a bike lane, not to mention the construction?
Or did you not consider this basic economic decision in your blind rage to regulate and tax?


Actually I did. In NJ fully 23% of adults own and use bicycles. This could actually fund Townships and Burroughs'' street plans and future Municipal plans. Or they can keep pedantically moving around lawfully registered traffic and sometimes die. Me, I'd get a license.
 
2013-09-25 09:38:21 PM  

Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."


The Quantum Cyclist. It is both a vehicle and a pedestrian at any given time however the act of observing it forces it to be in one state or the other. Being in the wrong quantum state at the wrong time can lead to them ending up like a certain cat that exhibits a similar uncertainty of it's state until observed.
 
2013-09-25 09:41:00 PM  

serial_crusher: comhcinc: I am completely okay with this as long as I am allowed to make up my lanes as well.

Yeah, kind of this.  How long until some chucklehead makes his own "no bikes" signs?


You wouldn't happen to know where to get some reflective paint would you?
 
2013-09-25 09:41:03 PM  
Having said all this, I dislike government regulation strongly. But the fact is that the streets and highways are in fact a government provided method of travel. It has to be paid for and serviced. Otherwise we would all just be biking through peoples backyards.

But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.
 
2013-09-25 09:42:27 PM  

Likwit: Luse: ZeroCorpse: Likwit: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

I get in fights with cyclists all the time. Probably because I pick them, but that's beside the point.

People ride all over the sidewalk even though you're really not supposed to. Then they have the audacity to ring their farking bell at you. It infuriates me. That crackdown on cyclists in Osaka the other day gave me the most awesomest boner.

Anyways, riding on the sidewalk and a cultural aversion to personal conflict, is why they have fewer cyclist/driver spats.

In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians. Likewise, the bikes get right-of-way versus cars at crosswalks when the light's on their side or when it's a stop sign for the car.

Certain towns may have ordinances to forbid bikes on sidewalks in areas of high foot traffic (downtown areas, mainly) but in many states it's LEGAL, so people can stop grumping about it.

Right, so because laws are different everywhere, and nobody really knows what the fark the law is anyway, we get people losing limbs. Of course the alternative would be to come up with a simple, uniform rule, like, treat bicycles like scooters, regardless where you go. That way, everyone knows the what the law is, regardless of what town they are in.

I know, madness.

No. If something is technically legal, I should be able to do it regardless of whether ...


Your appeal to logic is pathetic. Especially considering the fact that you make it, in defense of an inherently emotional plea. This has, of course, already been pointed out in the thread.

Are you trolling or merely stupid? Before you go on about it not making sense, please explain how it doesn't. Anyone who has ever been a kid knows it's not very difficult to both, ride a bicycle, and comply with the local traffic laws. We get to ride these as kids. No license. This is not a very difficult concept.
First decide if a bicycle is a vehicle, or pedestrian. If it is a pedestrian, it belongs on a sidewalk, obeying all pedestrian laws, crossing traffic only at crosswalks.
If it is a vehicle, it belongs in the roadway, and behave in a matter similar to all other vehicles. All vehicles, trucks, cars, motorcycles, scooters and drawn carriages play by this set of rules. If you wish to join this group, you must behave as a member of said group.
I don't like the fact that the sensor doesn't recognize my motorcycle, and the red light takes 3 times as long. It is illegal in my state to run the red, so I don't do it. Does it make sense? Some states say it does, simply not mine. Since I'm not an entitled little, special farking snowflake, I wait till it turns green.

Of course, all of this presumes that I have enough personal accountability to realize that I chose that method of transport in the first place.
 
2013-09-25 09:43:19 PM  

ThisIsntMe: eatin' fetus: ThisIsntMe: serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.

It's not a legally registered and licensed vehicle. Make them pay to register the vehicle and get a licence. Then build them lanes. Get them paying a road tax to use the road. Even Horse and Buggy operators pay a tax and have a licence.
Until then they are fair game.

Oh and don't go into the "But, but pedestrians!" mode. Those Farkers have to cross at a crosswalk and watch the signals or they're fair game too.

And why exactly should they have to pay taxes? Would the flood of new bike registration taxes even pay for the engineering required to widen the street for a bike lane, not to mention the construction?
Or did you not consider this basic economic decision in your blind rage to regulate and tax?

Actually I did. In NJ fully 23% of adults own and use bicycles. This could actually fund Townships and Burroughs'' street plans and future Municipal plans. Or they can keep pedantically moving around lawfully registered traffic and sometimes die. Me, I'd get a license.


Ok, so because some people own bicycles, everyone should have to pay to own a bicycle?
 
2013-09-25 09:45:34 PM  

ThisIsntMe: Having said all this, I dislike government regulation strongly. But the fact is that the streets and highways are in fact a government provided method of travel. It has to be paid for and serviced. Otherwise we would all just be biking through peoples backyards.

But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.


You do pay for it, through regular taxes.
 
2013-09-25 09:45:44 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Cyclists should just wait til the weekend to go on their joyrides. I'd be fine with bicyclists getting their own lane on weekends. But during the week, when actual adults are commuting to work, and these wanna-be Lance Armstrongs are clogging the lanes? Stay home and update your urban lifestyle blog, go harvest some organic kale at the local co-op, or go vintage loafer shopping with your life partner Seth. Leave the roads to the adults who actually work for a living.

 
2013-09-25 09:45:53 PM  
I recently got a job in the middle of bike-lane New York, and I've decided that I'm broad enough and big enough that I am simply going to stand in the way of any cyclists trying to plow through my crosswalk against the light. Try to plow into me and I get to 'stand my ground'

Yeah, Fark you all.
 
2013-09-25 09:46:25 PM  

eatin' fetus: ThisIsntMe: eatin' fetus: ThisIsntMe: serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.

It's not a legally registered and licensed vehicle. Make them pay to register the vehicle and get a licence. Then build them lanes. Get them paying a road tax to use the road. Even Horse and Buggy operators pay a tax and have a licence.
Until then they are fair game.

Oh and don't go into the "But, but pedestrians!" mode. Those Farkers have to cross at a crosswalk and watch the signals or they're fair game too.

And why exactly should they have to pay taxes? Would the flood of new bike registration taxes even pay for the engineering required to widen the street for a bike lane, not to mention the construction?
Or did you not consider this basic economic decision in your blind rage to regulate and tax?

Actually I did. In NJ fully 23% of adults own and use bicycles. This could actually fund Townships and Burroughs'' street plans and future Municipal plans. Or they can keep pedantically moving around lawfully registered traffic and sometimes die. Me, I'd get a license.

Ok, so because some people own bicycles, everyone should have to pay to own a bicycle?


If you want right of the way on the roads which are paid by that very thing, in a farking word, YES.
 
2013-09-25 09:48:22 PM  

ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.


We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.
 
2013-09-25 09:49:23 PM  

whatshisname: ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.

We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.


yeah. not to mention that many many cyclists own a car as well. stupid argument.
 
2013-09-25 09:51:21 PM  

whatshisname: ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.

We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.


Driver's License, Emissions testing, registration, insurance, gasoline taxes from all levels of government, am I missing anything?
 
2013-09-25 09:53:44 PM  

Luse: whatshisname: ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.

We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.

Driver's License, Emissions testing, registration, insurance, gasoline taxes from all levels of government, am I missing anything?


Yes, the fact that most of the fees you mention only pay for their own administration.
 
2013-09-25 09:53:46 PM  

Mellotiger: Drivers aren't the problem.
Cyclists aren't the problem.
Arseholes are the problem. And it's a big problem.


I agree. Cyclists (the assholes) are the problem.
 
2013-09-25 09:56:01 PM  

whatshisname: Luse: whatshisname: ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.

We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.

Driver's License, Emissions testing, registration, insurance, gasoline taxes from all levels of government, am I missing anything?

Yes, the fact that most of the fees you mention only pay for their own administration.


Oh goodie, you want to play. Let's start with the first one. If you are to be on a state or federally regulated roadway you would need a license to do so. We can call it a Driver's License. It could be something that proves that you have the basic understandings of the rules of the road, and how to navigate on said road. You can also prove your ability to perform all of the required maneuvers. Then, and only then you would be allowed on the road, BUT, not before you pay the fee for "their own administration".
 
2013-09-25 09:59:26 PM  

Luse: whatshisname: Luse: whatshisname: ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.

We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.

Driver's License, Emissions testing, registration, insurance, gasoline taxes from all levels of government, am I missing anything?

Yes, the fact that most of the fees you mention only pay for their own administration.

Oh goodie, you want to play. Let's start with the first one. If you are to be on a state or federally regulated roadway you would need a license to do so. We can call it a Driver's License. It could be something that proves that you have the basic understandings of the rules of the road, and how to navigate on said road. You can also prove your ability to perform all of the required maneuvers. Then, and only then you would be allowed on the road, BUT, not before you pay the fee for "their own administration".


Yes and the fees you pay to get and renew that driver's license pay for the program that administers the licenses, not for the construction and maintenance of roads. That's the argument, right? What pays for roads?
 
2013-09-25 10:01:41 PM  

Luse: whatshisname: Luse: whatshisname: ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.

We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.

Driver's License, Emissions testing, registration, insurance, gasoline taxes from all levels of government, am I missing anything?

Yes, the fact that most of the fees you mention only pay for their own administration.

Oh goodie, you want to play. Let's start with the first one. If you are to be on a state or federally regulated roadway you would need a license to do so. We can call it a Driver's License. It could be something that proves that you have the basic understandings of the rules of the road, and how to navigate on said road. You can also prove your ability to perform all of the required maneuvers. Then, and only then you would be allowed on the road, BUT, not before you pay the fee for "their own administration".


What in the fark...
 
2013-09-25 10:04:10 PM  
Ah, tomorrow will be a fine day to avoid biking on bike paths, burning red lights and weaving in traffic.

Wish me luck!

i.ebayimg.com
 
2013-09-25 10:05:01 PM  

whatshisname: Luse: whatshisname: Luse: whatshisname: ThisIsntMe: But, if we use the taxpayer paid for roads, we should pay for it in some manner.

We do. Roads are paid for from general tax revenues, not some magical tax that only motorists pay.

Driver's License, Emissions testing, registration, insurance, gasoline taxes from all levels of government, am I missing anything?

Yes, the fact that most of the fees you mention only pay for their own administration.

Oh goodie, you want to play. Let's start with the first one. If you are to be on a state or federally regulated roadway you would need a license to do so. We can call it a Driver's License. It could be something that proves that you have the basic understandings of the rules of the road, and how to navigate on said road. You can also prove your ability to perform all of the required maneuvers. Then, and only then you would be allowed on the road, BUT, not before you pay the fee for "their own administration".

Yes and the fees you pay to get and renew that driver's license pay for the program that administers the licenses, not for the construction and maintenance of roads. That's the argument, right? What pays for roads?


I'm sorry but we don't live in a socialist country. Nothing here runs for "their own administration". Everything I mentioned is a taxed item that is paid by every single motor vehicle owner, and therefore part of the "general tax". The other thing that every item I named has in common is that not a single cyclist pays them. Therefore, the cyclist contributes nothing, or drastically less than the motor vehicle owner.

If we are to talk about right of way, then the person who pays more is the person with the right of way. You gotta pay to ride first class, baby.

Oh, and don't think I didn't notice your dodge. You still haven't explained why a cyclist should be exempt from a Driver's License requirement if they want to share public roads. Every single other vehicle that uses them needs it, so should a cyclist.
 
2013-09-25 10:05:51 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:

Oh goodie, you want to play. Let's start with the first one. If you are to be on a state or federally regulated roadway you would need a license to do so. We can call it a Driver's License. It could be something that proves that you have the basic understandings of the rules of the road, and how to navigate on said road. You can also prove your ability to perform all of the required maneuvers. Then, and only then you would be allowed on the road, BUT, not before you pay the fee for "their own administration".

What in the fark...


I enjoy debate, do you mind?
 
2013-09-25 10:06:37 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Ah, tomorrow will be a fine day to avoid biking on bike paths, burning red lights and weaving in traffic.

Wish me luck!


Damn, nice wheels. Don't forget the lid!
 
2013-09-25 10:07:48 PM  

whatshisname: Yes and the fees you pay to get and renew that driver's license pay for the program that administers the licenses, not for the construction and maintenance of roads. That's the argument, right? What pays for roads?


While I admire your desire to match inputs and outputs ... money doesn't work that way.

The Roads in NY are paid for by local income taxes, state income taxes, road tolls, gas taxes, hackney carriage fees, federal income taxes, federal capital gains taxes ... in addition to the sales taxes on cars, the registration fees and inspection fees. I am sure that the DMV more than pays for itself. Add to that all the fines issued by courts to motorists breaking every kind of law, sales of towed vehicles, parking meter rates, parking ticket fines ....

In short ... EVERYTHING ... If you tried to trace the money from inputs to outputs, the outgoing bills for road crews and asphalt would look like sausage.
 
2013-09-25 10:08:44 PM  

meyerkev: Luse: No, you don't get to chose which laws to obey. If you demand a full lane, like you claim you are entitled to, because you are a vehicle, then you must obey all laws, including stop signs, like a vehicle.
Perhaps stopping at stop signs instead of rolling through them will help you enhance your fitness level.

That was meant for meyerkev


/selfpwned

So the problem with stopping is that Stopping is a multi-step process.

1) Come to a mostly complete stop.  Your right foot should be slightly in front of the bottom of the rotation.
2) As you finish coming to a complete stop, dismount from the bike by slipping off the front of your seat and planting your left foot against the ground.  If you do this WRONG, expect to get a crotch full of middle bar or fall off the bike since you should be AT LEAST 6 inches off the ground when sitting on your bike seat.  If you can be on the bike seat AND touch the ground with your tiptoes, you're doing it wrong.
2a) There are also creepy people who are probably aliens who dismount by swinging over the back of the bike while it's in motion and standing on one pedal until it stops.  I've tried this and never been able to pull it off (because I'm not that flexible and I have bike racks with baskets which I ram with my foot).
3) If you're going straight or right, you're on the right side of the lane.  If you're going left, you're in the left third of the lane.
4) God forbid you have to make a left turn because you just got rear-ended by the car behind you which wasn't expecting you to stop.   In fact, god forbid you have to make any turn because you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to be signalling this entire time which means that you only have one hand and one brake.

Now that you're stopped, to start again:
1) Kick your pedals backwards until they bounce off your right shin.  This will probably cause significant numbers of open sores since the little prongs on your pedal WILL pierce the skin.
2) Put your right foot on the pedal
3) Push off the ...


Obviously you are not a cyclist - we don't have prongs on our pedals and our shoes are rarely unclipped.
 
2013-09-25 10:09:56 PM  

rubi_con_man: whatshisname: Yes and the fees you pay to get and renew that driver's license pay for the program that administers the licenses, not for the construction and maintenance of roads. That's the argument, right? What pays for roads?

While I admire your desire to match inputs and outputs ... money doesn't work that way.

The Roads in NY are paid for by local income taxes, state income taxes, road tolls, gas taxes, hackney carriage fees, federal income taxes, federal capital gains taxes ... in addition to the sales taxes on cars, the registration fees and inspection fees. I am sure that the DMV more than pays for itself. Add to that all the fines issued by courts to motorists breaking every kind of law, sales of towed vehicles, parking meter rates, parking ticket fines ....

In short ... EVERYTHING ... If you tried to trace the money from inputs to outputs, the outgoing bills for road crews and asphalt would look like sausage.


Thanks. Seems I was missing alot.
 
2013-09-25 10:10:19 PM  
Worst. Generation. Ever.
 
2013-09-25 10:10:52 PM  

rubi_con_man: whatshisname: Yes and the fees you pay to get and renew that driver's license pay for the program that administers the licenses, not for the construction and maintenance of roads. That's the argument, right? What pays for roads?

While I admire your desire to match inputs and outputs ... money doesn't work that way.

The Roads in NY are paid for by local income taxes, state income taxes, road tolls, gas taxes, hackney carriage fees, federal income taxes, federal capital gains taxes ... in addition to the sales taxes on cars, the registration fees and inspection fees. I am sure that the DMV more than pays for itself. Add to that all the fines issued by courts to motorists breaking every kind of law, sales of towed vehicles, parking meter rates, parking ticket fines ....

In short ... EVERYTHING ... If you tried to trace the money from inputs to outputs, the outgoing bills for road crews and asphalt would look like sausage.


Oh, and I want to put in that if you claim that cyclists don't pay the large portion of those above fees, fines and taxes, let me remind you that almost everything that your haughty cyclist might buy in the City - from Power fuel to tinned beans has to come into the city by truck - the ports in NY are largely in Newark, and come through the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, so those costs are 'built into' the price of the goods....

Like I said ... EVERYTHING.
 
2013-09-25 10:10:55 PM  
All the traffic signals around here have magnetic loop detectors that are set to recognize cars, but not smaller objects like bicycles. Sometimes there's a specific, marked bike detector, but about 10% of the time they don't work, either. After a dozen or more of these traffic signalized intersections designed for cars, cyclists tend to slow, look, and go when they think it's safe.

So even the stop signs have magnetic loop detectors?
 
2013-09-25 10:13:23 PM  

rubi_con_man: If you tried to trace the money from inputs to outputs, the outgoing bills for road crews and asphalt would look like sausage.


Exactly, which is why it's silly to claim that roads are paid for exclusively from fees paid by motorists. I think I read that the income from gas taxes accounts for about 15%, and it's probably the largest single contribution extracted solely from motorists. But hey, cyclists eat lots of organic veggies trucked up from California so they are indirectly contributing, too, right  etc.  etc.
 
2013-09-25 10:13:59 PM  

Luse: If we are to talk about right of way, then the person who pays more is the person with the right of way. You gotta pay to ride first class, baby.


lol that is not how right-of-way works.
 
2013-09-25 10:16:47 PM  

whatshisname: rubi_con_man: If you tried to trace the money from inputs to outputs, the outgoing bills for road crews and asphalt would look like sausage.

Exactly, which is why it's silly to claim that roads are paid for exclusively from fees paid by motorists. I think I read that the income from gas taxes accounts for about 15%, and it's probably the largest single contribution extracted solely from motorists. But hey, cyclists eat lots of organic veggies trucked up from California so they are indirectly contributing, too, right  etc.  etc.


Then why should motorists pay an extra tax, have to get licensed, have to pay a registration fee and bicyclists shouldn't? All of those are excuses, the government uses for road usage. Why shouldn't you have to prove your knowledge of road rules of ability to ride?
 
2013-09-25 10:22:29 PM  

Insurgent: Luse: If we are to talk about right of way, then the person who pays more is the person with the right of way. You gotta pay to ride first class, baby.

lol that is not how right-of-way works.


Not entirely, but my point was, roads were designed for motor vehicles, not bicycles, and the infrastructure was designed, and taxed in such a way as to support it.

The point is, bicyclists want to have right of way on public roads without meeting even the bare requirements, or most of the costs associated with them. Entitlement culture at it's finest.
Please, tell my why a cyclist is so special that they get all of the rights, right of way, and don't have to meet even the bare requirements of the road.
 
2013-09-25 10:23:23 PM  

Luse: whatshisname: rubi_con_man: If you tried to trace the money from inputs to outputs, the outgoing bills for road crews and asphalt would look like sausage.

Exactly, which is why it's silly to claim that roads are paid for exclusively from fees paid by motorists. I think I read that the income from gas taxes accounts for about 15%, and it's probably the largest single contribution extracted solely from motorists. But hey, cyclists eat lots of organic veggies trucked up from California so they are indirectly contributing, too, right  etc.  etc.

Then why should motorists pay an extra tax, have to get licensed, have to pay a registration fee and bicyclists shouldn't? All of those are excuses, the government uses for road usage. Why shouldn't you have to prove your knowledge of road rules of ability to ride?


I would ask if you're really this obtuse but I'm assuming you're just bored and argumentative.
 
2013-09-25 10:24:43 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Luse: whatshisname: rubi_con_man: If you tried to trace the money from inputs to outputs, the outgoing bills for road crews and asphalt would look like sausage.

Exactly, which is why it's silly to claim that roads are paid for exclusively from fees paid by motorists. I think I read that the income from gas taxes accounts for about 15%, and it's probably the largest single contribution extracted solely from motorists. But hey, cyclists eat lots of organic veggies trucked up from California so they are indirectly contributing, too, right  etc.  etc.

Then why should motorists pay an extra tax, have to get licensed, have to pay a registration fee and bicyclists shouldn't? All of those are excuses, the government uses for road usage. Why shouldn't you have to prove your knowledge of road rules of ability to ride?

I would ask if you're really this obtuse but I'm assuming you're just bored and argumentative.


"I want all of the rights but don't want any of the responsibilities." Does this sound right to you?
 
2013-09-25 10:25:24 PM  

Luse: Then why should motorists pay an extra tax, have to get licensed, have to pay a registration fee and bicyclists shouldn't?


Because a bike isn't a potential lethal weapon. Use that argument and you'll also want to tax and test pedestrians using those expensive concrete sidewalks.
 
2013-09-25 10:26:25 PM  

Luse: Then why should motorists pay an extra tax, have to get licensed, have to pay a registration fee and bicyclists shouldn't? All of those are excuses, the government uses for road usage. Why shouldn't you have to prove your knowledge of road rules of ability to ride?


I also agree that cyclists should be licensed

Drivers are licensed so that their licenses can be revoked

Registration is empowered so that violators can be identified ticketed and punished for violations.

Inspections and insurance are put forward to make the road safer and less traumatically expensive.

Gas taxes are an attempt to both trim excess driving and draw some kinds of road tax funds in somewhat proportion to vehicle weight and use.

While I agree that bicyclists should be licensed, their ability to do damage to others is greatly diminished, and so the pursuit of their regulation is de-prioritized.
 
2013-09-25 10:27:41 PM  
way too late to this discussion, but here it is
i havent had the luxury of a vehicle for over nine years, i didnt quit drinking, but i did quit driving.
riding on the sidewalks in denver is illegal, ive got a ticket by the capital trying to be nice and stay out of traffic.  i stick far right at all times or stick to roads that have proper bike lanes, wait out all stop lights [i dont want to die running a red down broadway or lincoln] and generally am extremely cautious.  i know i am a pain in the ass for drivers and do my best to minimize the impact of me being on the road, but unfortunately the laws make it so that I am technically a vehicle on a public road and not a pedestrian on the sidewalk.  just one that cant go very fast and has no armor.
im just trying to get to work too.  getting buzzed by busses on broadway is scary as hell.  i always listen to silversun pickups 'very carefully look over your shoulder...' first song on the way to work downtown is always the royal we.
i never bike after a drink btw, cabs are cheap.
a ton of hipsters on fixies in this town give responsible bicyclists a shiat name around here.
 
2013-09-25 10:28:44 PM  
At least 1 pedestrian and a helmet would like to disagree with you. At least the helmet got an Ode to it.
http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/07/23/san-francisco-cyclist-pedes tr ian-death/
 
2013-09-25 10:29:32 PM  
i hear pedestrians cross public roads in between sidewalks at intersections. regulation for everyone yay!
 
2013-09-25 10:34:26 PM  

Luse: Insurgent: Luse: If we are to talk about right of way, then the person who pays more is the person with the right of way. You gotta pay to ride first class, baby.

lol that is not how right-of-way works.

Not entirely, but my point was, roads were designed for motor vehicles, not bicycles, and the infrastructure was designed, and taxed in such a way as to support it.

The point is, bicyclists want to have right of way on public roads without meeting even the bare requirements, or most of the costs associated with them. Entitlement culture at it's finest.
Please, tell my why a cyclist is so special that they get all of the rights, right of way, and don't have to meet even the bare requirements of the road.


because lawmakers need to designate bikes as a vehicle so they can prosecute DUIs on bikes for people so farking stupid they lose their license and choose to continue to cruise around drunk but on a bike.  Seriously.  the laws make it a catch 22.  you are basically on a motorcycle with no motor and HAVE to ride on the street or face a ticket from a cop having a bad day.

many people on bikes are either doing it for health and recreation or necessity.  one of the necessities being that they lost their license for one reason or another.  this doesnt make things better, but that is how it is.  in ski resort towns cops specifically look for recent DUI arrests on bikes to get them their second OUI and get them back in scummit county jail for a few months.

its the drunkards fault for falling for it even after hearing dozens of tales of this sort of thing in their alcohol class.
 
2013-09-25 10:43:30 PM  

Markoff_Cheney: Luse: Insurgent: Luse: If we are to talk about right of way, then the person who pays more is the person with the right of way. You gotta pay to ride first class, baby.

lol that is not how right-of-way works.

Not entirely, but my point was, roads were designed for motor vehicles, not bicycles, and the infrastructure was designed, and taxed in such a way as to support it.

The point is, bicyclists want to have right of way on public roads without meeting even the bare requirements, or most of the costs associated with them. Entitlement culture at it's finest.
Please, tell my why a cyclist is so special that they get all of the rights, right of way, and don't have to meet even the bare requirements of the road.

because lawmakers need to designate bikes as a vehicle so they can prosecute DUIs on bikes for people so farking stupid they lose their license and choose to continue to cruise around drunk but on a bike.  Seriously.  the laws make it a catch 22.  you are basically on a motorcycle with no motor and HAVE to ride on the street or face a ticket from a cop having a bad day.

many people on bikes are either doing it for health and recreation or necessity.  one of the necessities being that they lost their license for one reason or another.  this doesnt make things better, but that is how it is.  in ski resort towns cops specifically look for recent DUI arrests on bikes to get them their second OUI and get them back in scummit county jail for a few months.

its the drunkards fault for falling for it even after hearing dozens of tales of this sort of thing in their alcohol class.


So instead of fixing a corrupt system we should encourage it by making "special" classes of citizens? I don't disagree that a bicycle is less dangerous than a car. However my car veering to avoid your drunk ass is quite lethal.
So decide,

You are either a pedestrian, on a sidewalk, following all pedestrian on a sidewalk rules.
OR
You are a vehicle, on a public road way, following all vehicle on a roadway rules.

It really is that simple.
 
2013-09-25 10:44:52 PM  

Insurgent: lol that is not how right-of-way works.


You're right, it's not. This is how right-of-way works:  3,000 pound motor vehicle versus 150 pounds of asshole atop 40 pounds of aluminum tubing and rubber.All the pretense in the universe won't save you if you dart out in front of one without looking, run a red light or stop sign, or weave in and out of traffic like a chicken with its goddamn head cut off.

So, don't farking do it. Don't get pissy when someone who has no grasp of Newton's laws of motion does, and ends up chunky salsa. Don't sit around here and brag about doing it, or try to argue it's your right to reject our reality and substitute your own. Liability being on the head of the driver is no excuse, because in a battle between Car and Bicycle, the driver will be the one alive and/or  not horrifically mangled to face the legal ramifications in the first place.

You know, I don't drive on train tracks even though where I live it may actually be the most expedient route from point of origin to destination. I don't race trains, and I don't tearass out in front of them at a cross. Why that is, is because in the battle between Car and Train, if I'm representing Team Car my odds aren't too good.
 
2013-09-25 10:47:24 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Insurgent: lol that is not how right-of-way works.

You're right, it's not. This is how right-of-way works:  3,000 pound motor vehicle versus 150 pounds of asshole atop 40 pounds of aluminum tubing and rubber.All the pretense in the universe won't save you if you dart out in front of one without looking, run a red light or stop sign, or weave in and out of traffic like a chicken with its goddamn head cut off.

So, don't farking do it. Don't get pissy when someone who has no grasp of Newton's laws of motion does, and ends up chunky salsa. Don't sit around here and brag about doing it, or try to argue it's your right to reject our reality and substitute your own. Liability being on the head of the driver is no excuse, because in a battle between Car and Bicycle, the driver will be the one alive and/or  not horrifically mangled to face the legal ramifications in the first place.

You know, I don't drive on train tracks even though where I live it may actually be the most expedient route from point of origin to destination. I don't race trains, and I don't tearass out in front of them at a cross. Why that is, is because in the battle between Car and Train, if I'm representing Team Car my odds aren't too good.


Truth


/ I'm out, I need to know how Trevor's love affair ends
 
2013-09-25 10:47:56 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Insurgent: lol that is not how right-of-way works.

You're right, it's not. This is how right-of-way works:  3,000 pound motor vehicle versus 150 pounds of asshole atop 40 pounds of aluminum tubing and rubber.All the pretense in the universe won't save you if you dart out in front of one without looking, run a red light or stop sign, or weave in and out of traffic like a chicken with its goddamn head cut off.

So, don't farking do it. Don't get pissy when someone who has no grasp of Newton's laws of motion does, and ends up chunky salsa. Don't sit around here and brag about doing it, or try to argue it's your right to reject our reality and substitute your own. Liability being on the head of the driver is no excuse, because in a battle between Car and Bicycle, the driver will be the one alive and/or  not horrifically mangled to face the legal ramifications in the first place.

You know, I don't drive on train tracks even though where I live it may actually be the most expedient route from point of origin to destination. I don't race trains, and I don't tearass out in front of them at a cross. Why that is, is because in the battle between Car and Train, if I'm representing Team Car my odds aren't too good.


you sure gleaned a lot of information from that one sentence. none of the things you've posted describe me at all. by all means, though, continue with your self-righteous outrage, dude.
 
2013-09-25 10:47:58 PM  

theorellior: Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."

It's the law. You want cyclists to stop at stop signs and obey traffic laws and be good upstanding citizens, then you get to follow the same rules. If bikes are treated exactly the same as internal-combustion powered automobiles in the eyes of the law, then you just sit back on your ass while the bike take up the entire lane as the law entitles it to, going just as fast as the cyclist can go. So blow it out your ass.



A few years ago I saw a guy on a recumbent bike with a big anti-war sign on the back of the seat. He was on 2222 heading towards 360 from 620 in Austin, TX. There is a large down-hill section that is 60-mph. He was riding in the middle of his lane of course. And while he was presumably "legally entitled" to do so, he's also an idiot for jeopardizing his own well being and the well-being of those around him. (I passed him in the other lane before we got to the hill. So I don't know if he attempted it or not.)

I'm willing to bet that riding at 30-40-mph under the speed limit is *not* legal in some places, as it creates a hazard. I'm not going to look it up of course. But it would make sense.
 
2013-09-25 10:54:55 PM  

Luse: Markoff_Cheney: Luse: Insurgent: Luse:

So instead of fixing a corrupt system we should encourage it by making "special" classes of citizens? I don't disagree that a bicycle is less dangerous than a car. However my car veering to avoid your drunk ass is quite lethal.
So decide,

You are either a pedestrian, on a sidewalk, following all pedestrian on a sidewalk rules.
OR
You are a vehicle, on a public road way,  following all vehicle on a roadway rules.

It really is that simple.


see my other post.  i act as a vehicle on public roads, following all roadway rules.  apparently I am in the minority especially based on behavior I have seen around denver by kids on fixies and random idiots who use the bike share thing and havent been on a bike since they were 15.  again, i dont drink and hop on a bike, but many people do.  tonight is denver cruisers night, a bar crawl ON FARKING BIKES.  got invited but didnt go because i already had a couple of drinks after i got home from work.
i didnt make me a special class, legislation made me a motorless class of vehicle when i go to and from work.  and the speer bike path doesnt go close to my place of employ so I am stuck on the roads.
in summary, there are a few of us on bikes that are doing our best to stay the fark out of the way and make shiat as easy as we can on people in cars and trucks.  I am not paying another 60 or 80 bucks to skip onto the sidewalk around the capital on my bike.
but the cop that ticketed me for doing so [on an uphill right by the capital building so i didnt want to be slowing traffic or be a hazard because me and the girl i was riding with were feeling lazy and just half assing it] was obviously having a really shiatty day.  i hope that handing out a bunch of lame tickets to people on bikes that day was her personal vendetta and that she felt much better after handing all of them out.
thats when i learned that i have to pretty much be on the street or a bike path at all times or i could get a wallet dent at any time.
 
2013-09-25 11:01:32 PM  

hailin: I almost hit a cyclist the other day. I was at a stop light going to turn right. I didn't pass a cyclist on the way to the stop light, so they must have turned onto the road after I passed. They came up on my right side as I made my turn as the light turned green. They flipped me off and yelled at me. I still feel bad, but honestly never even thought about checking over my right shoulder making a right turn. I sure will from now on, but I wonder whose fault it would have been if an accident had happened.


Same here. Except it was night time, and she was travelling in the wrong direction on a 65-mph road--(620 in Austin, turning right into Rudy's), with no headlight. So when I started my turn I almost hit her head-on, not expecting to see someone coming towards me in my own lane at bike cruising speed. She yelled "jackass!" of course. And I'm sure in her head she felt really good about asserting herself when confronted by an evil driver.

I wasn't even angry, in part because I was relieved that I didn't kill her. She was *that close*.

Truth be known, I don't get angry at drivers or cyclists any more. I just lowered my expectations of both, and the disappointment and disbelief faded away very gracefully.
 
2013-09-25 11:06:14 PM  
static02.mediaite.com
 
2013-09-25 11:10:39 PM  

that bosnian sniper: You know, I don't drive on train tracks even though where I live it may actually be the most expedient route from point of origin to destination. I don't race trains, and I don't tearass out in front of them at a cross. Why that is, is because in the battle between Car and Train, if I'm representing Team Car my odds aren't too good.


Shiat. I do all of that on my sweet fixie. YOLO
 
2013-09-25 11:13:36 PM  

Luse: Perhaps my mind that confused Austrian for German similarly confused New York for California.


The take away is that Austrian bicyclists run 14% of the stoplights they encounter. Austrians are some of the most law-abiding people on the planet. So basically, it's likely that everyone else's bikes are running red lights at even higher rates.
 
2013-09-25 11:13:57 PM  

Luse: Likwit: Luse: ZeroCorpse: Likwit: doglover: How is it that millions of people can ride bikes in Tokyo, WITHOUT HELMETS mind you, next to cars on every kind of road imaginable and almost no one gets into fights or run over and yet Americans can't go one minute with a bike and car on the same road without the guy on the bike and the guy on the car splitting into factions and trying to kill the other?

You're on a bike? You're inches from farking death by choice. GROW THE fark UP AND ACT LIKE IT, ASSHOLES. Be cautious and respectful.

I get in fights with cyclists all the time. Probably because I pick them, but that's beside the point.

People ride all over the sidewalk even though you're really not supposed to. Then they have the audacity to ring their farking bell at you. It infuriates me. That crackdown on cyclists in Osaka the other day gave me the most awesomest boner.

Anyways, riding on the sidewalk and a cultural aversion to personal conflict, is why they have fewer cyclist/driver spats.

In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians. Likewise, the bikes get right-of-way versus cars at crosswalks when the light's on their side or when it's a stop sign for the car.

Certain towns may have ordinances to forbid bikes on sidewalks in areas of high foot traffic (downtown areas, mainly) but in many states it's LEGAL, so people can stop grumping about it.

Right, so because laws are different everywhere, and nobody really knows what the fark the law is anyway, we get people losing limbs. Of course the alternative would be to come up with a simple, uniform rule, like, treat bicycles like scooters, regardless where you go. That way, everyone knows the what the law is, regardless of what town they are in.

I know, madness.

No. If something is technically legal, I should be able to do it regardless of whether ...

Your appeal to logic is pathetic. Especially considering the fact that you make it, in defense of an inherently emotional plea. This has, of course, already been pointed out in the thread.

Are you trolling or merely stupid? Before you go on about it not making sense, please explain how it doesn't. Anyone who has ever been a kid knows it's not very difficult to both, ride a bicycle, and comply with the local traffic laws. We get to ride these as kids. No license. This is not a very difficult concept.
First decide if a bicycle is a vehicle, or pedestrian. If it is a pedestrian, it belongs on a sidewalk, obeying all pedestrian laws, crossing traffic only at crosswalks.
If it is a vehicle, it belongs in the roadway, and behave in a matter similar to all other vehicles. All vehicles, trucks, cars, motorcycles, scooters and drawn carriages play by this set of rules. If you wish to join this group, you must behave as a member of said group.
I don't like the fact that the sensor doesn't recognize my motorcycle, and the red light takes 3 times as long. It is illegal in my state to run the red, so I don't do it. Does it make sense? Some states say it does, simply not mine. Since I'm not an entitled little, special farking snowflake, I wait till it turns green.

Of course, all of this presumes that I have enough personal accountability to realize that I chose that method of transport in the first place.


Whoooosh! ←the sound of my post going over your head, despite me explicitly saying that it's sarcasm.

I was gonna write something sarcastic, but you clearly won't understand, so I'll just review as simply as possible. Try to keep up.

Me: People in Japan ride on the sidewalk, but shouldn't.
ZeroCorpse (also neglecting to read my post): But it's technically legal in some states, so shut up!
You: No one knows the laws and they vary a lot, so let's make a new, uniform rule that treats bikes like scooters.
Me (BEING SARCASTIC): No, since riding on the sidewalk is technically legal, I wanna do it, even though it's stupid as balls.
You (totally misunderstanding): Actually, your appeal to loci is pathetic!
 
2013-09-25 11:18:16 PM  

ZeroCorpse: In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians.


Varies city by city. It's not legal within Houghton city limits, for instance. And your route from town to campus goes past the police station.
 
2013-09-25 11:18:40 PM  
but I wonder whose fault it would have been if an accident had happened.

If you're signaling that you are turning right and a cyclist tries to pass you on the right then they are incredibly stupid and at fault.
 
2013-09-25 11:19:48 PM  

firefly212: Let me paint you a picture, My car has 400hp and weights 4,300lbs. You will die if you get in my way.

Ride safe.

So... you threaten to murder people with your car (and apparently tiny penis), but they're the real assholes in this?


He's threatening like a lighthouse threatens a ship.
 
2013-09-25 11:26:02 PM  

whatshisname: Because a bike isn't a potential lethal weapon.


Oh, sorry. The answer we were looking for was "Because a bicycle is a potentially lethal weapon." But thanks for playing!

http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2012/04/05/was-cyclist-who-killed-pedes tr ian-reckless
 
2013-09-25 11:26:48 PM  

johnny_vegas: serial_crusher: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Painting DIY bike lanes is technically illegal

I tried to have a conversation with someone who was seriously proposing this on a difficult stretch of road near me. I should have asked him if he would be comfortable when a cyclist, thinking this is a safe legal bike lane, invariably gets hit by a car. At least now the bikers know to take the street at their own peril.

What scenario would lead to a cyclist on an illegal bike lane being hit by a law-abiding motorist though?  Even if you're allowed to drive your car on that part of the road, you're not allowed to rear-end the vehicles in front of you.

based on a certain ratio of width to length and degree of curvature, sight lines, etc a road will have a safe driving speed.  if a road has a bike lane, their is a speed limit reduction that would apply.  No official baike lane, could mean excessive speeds in vicinity of a bike which could cause turbulence and knock the bicyclist off the bike.


Shouldn't a dedicated bike lane allow for a higher speed in the "car lane", not the other way around?  You're more likely to hit a bike whose lane you're in than one who you're not.

The windy roads thing is silly though.  If you're going so fast that you can't see past your vehicle's safe stopping distance, you need to slow down.  There could be anything around that corner, from a slower moving vehicle to a stationary object like a rock or livestock.  This idea that it's the other party's fault when you rear end them is ridiculous.
 
2013-09-25 11:30:53 PM  

This text is now purple: Oh, sorry. The answer we were looking for was "Because a bicycle is a potentially lethal weapon." But thanks for playing!


So's a lawnmower. Statistically far more lethal, in fact. I presume you have a lawnmower license and pay lawnmower tax?
 
2013-09-25 11:40:03 PM  

whatshisname: This text is now purple: Oh, sorry. The answer we were looking for was "Because a bicycle is a potentially lethal weapon." But thanks for playing!

So's a lawnmower. Statistically far more lethal, in fact. I presume you have a lawnmower license and pay lawnmower tax?


i assume she/he as a gasoline lawnmower which automatically gives her/him right of way, because taxes and unfairness.
 
2013-09-26 12:08:02 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: firefly212: Kahabut: fark cyclists.  I used to have a much more congenial attitude, but as it turns out, you guys are almost 100% assholes and hypocrites, so now I don't even try and be nice about it.

Let me paint you a picture, My car has 400hp and weights 4,300lbs.  You will die if you get in my way.

Ride safe.

So... you threaten to murder people with your car (and apparently tiny penis), but they're the real assholes in this?

Accidents happen. Being aware that you are surrounded by two tons of speeding hunks of metal is a good thing.

Drivers will don't want to have an accident because of the pain in the ass it is to get repairs. Bikers should worry about being killed in one.


It's that whole "if you get in my way" part that just rubs me wrong... too often I see drivers who think they have impunity because they have cars... your car is stupid and insignificant compared to the terrain I live on, and if you expect all the respect for the fact you're operating two tons of explosion-powered machinery to come from the outside, you're gonna end up dead here really fast in the winter. Regardless of whether you're in a car or on a bicycle, you need to anticipate and respect the whole world around you. Your way doesn't matter when rocks the size of trucks come tumbling down the mountain, it doesn't matter in avalanche prone territory, and it doesn't matter on ice slicked roads in mountain passes. The arrogance of thinking that your car is a safety shell is miind-bogglingly stupid and gets people killed  up here in the mountains every year. Frankly, I imagine most of the disrespectful dicks to think exactly on the lines of Kahabut, ooh, 400hp and 4000 lbs... that's gonna be really farking scary when I'm riding my bike up a hill being mindful of my environment and you get pounded by a farking boulder...

/car needs more hp to accelerate that massive ego... grr... don't get in my way, mr. internet tough guy.
 
2013-09-26 12:58:34 AM  
Meanwhile, automobile drivers keep backing up over their own children... can we really expect them to look out for non-blood kin?
 
2013-09-26 02:47:59 AM  

theorellior: Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."

It's the law. You want cyclists to stop at stop signs and obey traffic laws and be good upstanding citizens, then you get to follow the same rules. If bikes are treated exactly the same as internal-combustion powered automobiles in the eyes of the law, then you just sit back on your ass while the bike take up the entire lane as the law entitles it to, going just as fast as the cyclist can go. So blow it out your ass.


It's illegal to obstruct traffic.  In my state, you are required to pull off the road and allow traffic around when more than 3 vehicles are behind you.

It's also a traffic violation to go less than 20% below the speed limit when no immediate obstruction/danger is present.

Stop acting like an entitled child.
 
2013-09-26 03:10:21 AM  

Kahabut: theorellior: Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."

It's the law. You want cyclists to stop at stop signs and obey traffic laws and be good upstanding citizens, then you get to follow the same rules. If bikes are treated exactly the same as internal-combustion powered automobiles in the eyes of the law, then you just sit back on your ass while the bike take up the entire lane as the law entitles it to, going just as fast as the cyclist can go. So blow it out your ass.

It's illegal to obstruct traffic.  In my state, you are required to pull off the road and allow traffic around when more than 3 vehicles are behind you.

It's also a traffic violation to go less than 20% below the speed limit when no immediate obstruction/danger is present.

Stop acting like an entitled child.


Those laws sound ridiculous enough that I doubt you're understanding them correctly.  Care to provide some citations, or at least clue us in on what state that is, so we can avoid it?  The great state of Texas does not have those laws.
 
2013-09-26 03:37:00 AM  

ShepTR: Ooh, is this the thread where car drivers complain that they get mildly inconvenienced when they are stuck behind a bicyclist for 30 seconds, and therefore wish death upon them?

If it is, sign me up! fark those guys!


Nah, this is the one where cyclists kvetch about not having rights to the road, and then forgetting that they still aren't equal in every place known to man, and that they don't get special privs here.

Here in my state, we have bike lanes in my city, and we have specific rules for bikes. You're still supposed to follow all lights and signs, and you're supposed to defer to the right and let the cars pass if you're unable to keep up with the flow of traffic.

You're also supposed to walk your damn bike through crosswalks, because those are for pedestrians, and you're a vehicle.

I smile a little bit every time another cyclist gets a ticket for running a red light. There's a T intersection here near the college, and no bikes ever stop at the stop sign when they're not making a turn. They ticket there regularly too, because you're supposed to stop.

Want equal rights? Take equal responsibility.

And if I catch you trying to lane share like a motorcycle, don't be surprised when you nearly get hit trying to bypass traffic turning when you want to go straight. That one was fun Two lanes of traffic, both turning left at a red. Bike between us. Bike wants to go straight. Bike almost gets turned into road paste when the car next to him on the right was also making the same turn we were and he was in the way.

Idiots.
 
2013-09-26 03:44:11 AM  

Markoff_Cheney: Luse: Markoff_Cheney: Luse: Insurgent: Luse:

So instead of fixing a corrupt system we should encourage it by making "special" classes of citizens? I don't disagree that a bicycle is less dangerous than a car. However my car veering to avoid your drunk ass is quite lethal.
So decide,

You are either a pedestrian, on a sidewalk, following all pedestrian on a sidewalk rules.
OR
You are a vehicle, on a public road way,  following all vehicle on a roadway rules.

It really is that simple.

see my other post.  i act as a vehicle on public roads, following all roadway rules.  apparently I am in the minority especially based on behavior I have seen around denver by kids on fixies and random idiots who use the bike share thing and havent been on a bike since they were 15.  again, i dont drink and hop on a bike, but many people do.  tonight is denver cruisers night, a bar crawl ON FARKING BIKES.  got invited but didnt go because i already had a couple of drinks after i got home from work.
i didnt make me a special class, legislation made me a motorless class of vehicle when i go to and from work.  and the speer bike path doesnt go close to my place of employ so I am stuck on the roads.
in summary, there are a few of us on bikes that are doing our best to stay the fark out of the way and make shiat as easy as we can on people in cars and trucks.  I am not paying another 60 or 80 bucks to skip onto the sidewalk around the capital on my bike.
but the cop that ticketed me for doing so [on an uphill right by the capital building so i didnt want to be slowing traffic or be a hazard because me and the girl i was riding with were feeling lazy and just half assing it] was obviously having a really shiatty day.  i hope that handing out a bunch of lame tickets to people on bikes that day was her personal vendetta and that she felt much better after handing all of them out.
thats when i learned that i have to pretty much be on the street or a bike path at all times or i could get a wall ...


Bikes on sidewalks are illegal most places I've been.. particularly large cities like Denver.

What on Earth makes you think it's okay to do it, even if you want to avoid backing up traffic? If you're taking your bike on the sidewalk, you WALK WITH IT. The sidewalks are for pedestrians.
 
2013-09-26 05:03:49 AM  
This is Manhattan, one of the densest populations per sq mile in the world. Goddamn bike lanes should be on every street - whether you think cyclists are douchebags or not. Nearly 80% of Manhattan residents don't use a car.
 
2013-09-26 07:20:10 AM  
It's 2013 and you're an adult now.

Get a job and a car.
 
2013-09-26 07:49:40 AM  
Seems there's a lot of hate for bikers in this thread. Some of it is no doubt deserved. Here are some salient points:

* Bikes have every right to the road as cars, horses, etc. do. In fact, they were using roads before cars existed. Bikes are not supposed to ride on sidewalks.

* The above point does not mean that bikes are allowed to violate traffic laws and control devices.

* Europeans have a better time with bicycles in cities because in general, more Europeans cycle. This means that when someone is driving, likely they also cycle, so they understand they need to look for bikes while turning right, how to pass someone on a bike, etc.

* It takes a lot of effort to get up to speed in a bike, so sometimes stopping for a red light can be a big deal--it's not an excuse, but this is why. In a car you don't really have an excuse.

* Where I live, there are dedicated bike lanes and bike traffic lights. Idiots still ride the wrong way in the bike lanes, ignore the lights, etc. And people yell at them.
 
2013-09-26 08:35:40 AM  

Luse: firefly212: Kahabut: fark cyclists.  I used to have a much more congenial attitude, but as it turns out, you guys are almost 100% assholes and hypocrites, so now I don't even try and be nice about it.

Let me paint you a picture, My car has 400hp and weights 4,300lbs.  You will die if you get in my way.

Ride safe.

So... you threaten to murder people with your car (and apparently tiny penis), but they're the real assholes in this?

No, he tells the truth. First thing they teach you if you take a basic rider's safety course, assume every car on the road is trying, to actively kill you. This is absolute truth. The number one transgressor is the soccer mom. The one in the gigantic SUV or Minivan, with the stickers that cover most of the rear window, displaying the enormity of her brood. The one who's got the iPhone pressed into her ear covering up what little precious peripheral vision she had, making her blind spot, "all of it".

It's not who's right, it's who's left. You can never overstate that.


I knew a guy who would jaunt out into traffic at any pedestrian crossing 'because he had right of way', without so much as taking a second to see if the car even sees him. Cars could be zipping by at 45-50 mph, and he'd just stroll on through like Mr Magoo blundering his way through a construction site. I'd ask "Arn't you afraid of getting hit?" He'd say "Let them hit me, I need the money".

Well, Mr technically-the-best-kind-of right right, you might techincally have right of way, but lawsuit money won't help your quadriplegic ass with much besides getting one of those wheelchairs that move when you blow into a straw. I've always subscribed to the theory of Mass² X Velocity = right of way. If you're bigger than me and/or moving much faster, I'm not going to be too assertive with my 'rights'.

/The only exception to this rule is when you are driving a rusted 1987 $500 Toyota Carolla. You will never lose a fight for a parking space or merge point.
 
2013-09-26 02:03:28 PM  
In cities. I don't care. Let people have bike lanes, let bikes do their thing. Whatever. I can't drive more than 10 seconds without a red light or a crosswalk anyway so they're hardly hurting me. What gets to me is that I live further out, near a more rural area. There are a lot of back-roads where you can hardly fit two cars traveling in different directions let alone a bicycle. Add to it a lot of trees (this is Oregon after all) that can limit visibility, sharp turns, blind corners, blind hills, etc etc and the speed limits tend to be either 45 or 55 mph. Coming around a corner at the regulated speed limit to be faced with 3 or 4 bicycles doing a couple miles an hour up a long hill and no way to pass seems unsafe in multiple respects to me. It really is just setting up an accident waiting to happen. Common sense tells me I wouldn't get out there on a bicycle and engage in this activity on country back-roads but apparently the bicycle elite feels it's their right to go try to get killed with irresponsible riding in dangerous situations.

Either widen the roads that they want to ride on and add the bike lanes or peddle at 45 mph so the rest of us can go about our business too. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should or that it's really a great idea.
 
2013-09-26 02:14:21 PM  

tevo: In cities. I don't care. Let people have bike lanes, let bikes do their thing. Whatever. I can't drive more than 10 seconds without a red light or a crosswalk anyway so they're hardly hurting me.


I disagree heartily. In the city, bicyclists who don't follow the rules of the road are an enormous safety risk. I can't tell you how often one will come inches close to hitting a bicyclist in NYC who refuses to stop at red lights, or rides like an idiot swerving everywhere on the road except their precious bike lanes, or insists on trying to squeeze through a tiny space between two cars. I don't want to be angry at bicyclists in NYC in general, but it seems like the vast majority of them are asshats.
 
2013-09-26 02:48:08 PM  

This text is now purple: waterrockets: Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."

Show me a 5 minute video of ANY lighted intersection with continuous traffic that does not have at least one motor vehicle failing to stop on red. There are asshole cyclists, and there are asshole drivers. Similar percentage of each.

Not even close.

I've never seen a car in Philly blow a light by more than 3 seconds (not counting cops...).

I see that three times daily on my walk to/from the train, each way. I also enjoy diving out of the way of bikes going the wrong way down one-way streets, or using the sidewalks as a local lane. fark bikers. Even the insane panhandlers are more law-abiding.


Maybe it's regional, or just urban. Or maybe they're all Here in Austin, almost zero cars stop for a right on red unless there is traffic in the way. Almost zero cars stop for stop signs unless there's traffic. They slow, but they don't stop. I do occasionally see a cyclist blow a red light, but not daily, and I see a couple hundred cyclists every day.

Same thing in Denver, although downtown Denver when I lived there, bike messengers were everywhere, and obeyed zero traffic laws.
 
2013-09-26 03:03:00 PM  

BadReligion: Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.


How so? Do you dispute any of my points?
 
2013-09-26 03:04:30 PM  

BadReligion: Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.


How so? Do you dispute any of my points?

BadReligion: Token Anarchist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.

Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.

Logically, bicycles should have the right of way. They're greener, healthier, and cheaper.

Your reasons are not logical at all. Your reasons that bikes should have the right of way are purely emotional.


How are they emotional? Do you disagree with any of my points?
 
2013-09-26 03:05:08 PM  
oops, weird posting happened
 
2013-09-26 03:08:05 PM  

Luse: Token Anarchist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.

Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.

Logically, bicycles should have the right of way. They're greener, healthier, and cheaper.

You can have it as soon as we transfer all of the taxes and fees that pay for the roads from motor vehicles onto your bicycle. You get what you pay for.
I on the other hand will take the extra money and extend my vacation by a week.


Roads made for bikes would be vastly cheaper and use a lot less materials and maintenance
 
2013-09-26 03:11:35 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: BadReligion: Token Anarchist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Token Anarchist: This is a great example of direct action in the face of an unresponsive government that's been sold out to oil and auto interests.

Except creating these "bike lanes" doesn't leave enough room in the travel lane for cars. It requires the cars to either drive into oncoming traffic, or drive partially in the bike lane. There's a reason these cyclists are on their way to a vinyl record shop 2 and not an engineering firm.

Logically, bicycles should have the right of way. They're greener, healthier, and cheaper.

Your reasons are not logical at all. Your reasons that bikes should have the right of way are purely emotional.

Yeah, this. There's nothing logical about basing transportation engineering on fashionable political values. A bicycle being "greener" literally has no bearing on rights of way.


How is it fashionable? It is a reliable means of transportation for millions of people around the world. They use less materials and resources, are cheaper and more available to the average population, and are healthy for the riders. Why shouldn't they have priority?
 
2013-09-26 04:05:54 PM  

starsrift: This is Manhattan, one of the densest populations per sq mile in the world. Goddamn bike lanes should be on every street - whether you think cyclists are douchebags or not. Nearly 80% of Manhattan residents don't use a car.


THIS!  Whatever my feelings about the way cyclists impact traffic, they should have their own lanes wherever possible, and especially in dense cities like NYC.
 
2013-09-26 04:09:16 PM  

serial_crusher: Kahabut: theorellior: Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."

It's the law. You want cyclists to stop at stop signs and obey traffic laws and be good upstanding citizens, then you get to follow the same rules. If bikes are treated exactly the same as internal-combustion powered automobiles in the eyes of the law, then you just sit back on your ass while the bike take up the entire lane as the law entitles it to, going just as fast as the cyclist can go. So blow it out your ass.

It's illegal to obstruct traffic.  In my state, you are required to pull off the road and allow traffic around when more than 3 vehicles are behind you.

It's also a traffic violation to go less than 20% below the speed limit when no immediate obstruction/danger is present.

Stop acting like an entitled child.

Those laws sound ridiculous enough that I doubt you're understanding them correctly.  Care to provide some citations, or at least clue us in on what state that is, so we can avoid it?  The great state of Texas does not have those laws.


ORS 811.425
and
ORS 811.130(1)
 
2013-09-26 05:20:29 PM  

Kahabut: serial_crusher: Kahabut: theorellior: Calmamity: I want to like bicyclists, I really do. I appreciate their commitment to their health, I appreciate that they are using non-polluting transportation.... but... godammit, if you can't keep up with the flow of traffic, then get the fu*k off the road. And what makes you think you're so special that you get to run red lights whenever you feel like it?

"Oooh ooh, Treat me like a vehicle! Follow behind me at 6 miles an hour while I mosey down the center of the lane and back up traffic for miles! I'm a vehicle!...  until it is inconvenient to me. Then I'm a pedestrian. A pedestrian who ignores all traffic laws."

It's the law. You want cyclists to stop at stop signs and obey traffic laws and be good upstanding citizens, then you get to follow the same rules. If bikes are treated exactly the same as internal-combustion powered automobiles in the eyes of the law, then you just sit back on your ass while the bike take up the entire lane as the law entitles it to, going just as fast as the cyclist can go. So blow it out your ass.

It's illegal to obstruct traffic.  In my state, you are required to pull off the road and allow traffic around when more than 3 vehicles are behind you.

It's also a traffic violation to go less than 20% below the speed limit when no immediate obstruction/danger is present.

Stop acting like an entitled child.

Those laws sound ridiculous enough that I doubt you're understanding them correctly.  Care to provide some citations, or at least clue us in on what state that is, so we can avoid it?  The great state of Texas does not have those laws.

ORS 811.425
and
ORS 811.130(1)


Fair enough on the needing to yield thing.  811.425(1) is a good read though.  It's limited only to bidirectional two-lane roads.  Way less scary than what your earlier post implied.  If there's 2 lanes going in our direction, I don't have to yield to you, even if changing lanes and safely passing me is going to make you 15 seconds late for work.  If there's only one, yeah I have no interest in being a dick.  I'll let you pass as soon as it's safe to do so.

But, neither of those says anything about an implicit minimum speed limit.  Unless there's somewhere else that "a manner that impedes or blocks the normal and reasonable movement of traffic" is defined so as to include it.

Even still, 811.130(1) very clearly only applies to people "operating a motor vehicle or group of motor vehicles".
801.360 defines a motor vehicle as "a vehicle that is self-propelled or designed for self-propulsion"
814.400(2)(a): "When the term 'vehicle' is used the term shall be deemed to be applicable to bicycles." (a bicycle is a "vehicle", but not necessarily a "motor vehicle")
814.405: "An electric assisted bicycle shall be considered a bicycle, rather than a motor vehicle " (further establishes that "bicycle" and "motor vehicle" are two distinct types of vehicles).
 / If I come up to a single person operating a group of motor vehicles, I'm going to slow down and watch, regardless of how fast they're going.
 
2013-09-26 07:30:31 PM  

serial_crusher: Fair enough on the needing to yield thing.  811.425(1) is a good read though.  It's limited only to bidirectional two-lane roads.  Way less scary than what your earlier post implied.  If there's 2 lanes going in our direction, I don't have to yield to you, even if changing lanes and safely passing me is going to make you 15 seconds late for work.  If there's only one, yeah I have no interest in being a dick.  I'll let you pass as soon as it's safe to do so.

But, neither of those says anything about an implicit minimum speed limit.  Unless there's somewhere else that "a manner that impedes or blocks the normal and reasonable movement of traffic" is defined so as to include it.

Even still, 811.130(1) very clearly only applies to people "operating a motor vehicle or group of motor vehicles".
801.360 defines a motor vehicle as "a vehicle that is self-propelled or designed for self-propulsion"
814.400(2)(a): "When the term 'vehicle' is used the term shall be deemed to be applicable to bicycles." (a bicycle is a "vehicle", but not necessarily a "motor vehicle")
814.405: "An electric assisted bicycle shall be considered a bicycle, rather than a motor vehicle " (further establishes that "bicycle" and "motor vehicle" are two distinct types of vehicles).
 / If I come up to a single person operating a group of motor vehicles, I'm going to slow down and watch, regardless of how fast they're going.


You have a point, I miss-communicated the details of the law I was thinking of.  I have a pragmatic view, so I just interpreted that into words.  That's not accurate and I should probably try and avoid that in these discussions.

I don't have an issue with cyclists on a road with 2 lanes in my travel direction, unless the cyclist is blatantly breaking from his own lane.  I have a problem with cyclists on roads with no shoulder, no bike lane and bad sight lines.  In previous threads on the subject I've taken the time to explain that because of the laws of physics, it's not a good idea to ride these sorts of roads, and it's a terrible idea to do so in packs.  I won't bother elaborating further here, because the response last time made it perfectly clear that no one cares that it's dangerous and stupid, because "cyclists have a right to the road too".  Sure you do, and you have the right to end up dead under my bumper because it isn't physically possible to go from 50mph to cyclists speed of 1-5mph in the distance between that corner and your bike.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for the plight of cyclists if they bothered to actually conform to the laws they claim entitle them to the road.  Oregon law specifically applies ALL road law to cyclists (except where noted, and that's rare).  If you want me to play by the rules, you have to play by the rules.  Otherwise, we fall back on the more simple physical laws, and in that case, my cars beats your bike, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I have, when required, crawled along behind a cyclist until such time as I could safely pass.  I have done this enough times to say that if the laws were being followed by both parties this would be far less of an issue than it currently is.

Just yesterday a cyclist nearly hit my car because he ran a stop sign and ignored by turn indicator.  He then had the typically entitled attitude that I had violated him in some fashion.  I simply replied that STOP means stop, if you want to have a legal right of way, you have to stop at the sign, even when it's "hard work" for you.

If you guys (cyclists) want to change things, you need to start with your own group.  Because as long as us drivers have to put up with your friends inability to follow the law, we aren't inclined to cut a lot of slack to the rest of you (that are probably perfectly reasonable folks).

And while we are at it, fark drivers that can't manage to follow the rules either.  I have no small hatred for them either, more in fact, than for cyclists, as someone in a car being reckless is far more likely to cause me serious damage.
 
2013-09-26 09:58:25 PM  

doglover: Americans can't


ZeroPly: Americans can't


Don't you just love it when sanctimonious douchebags lump everyone on two and a half continents into one group?
 
2013-09-26 11:38:56 PM  

Kahabut: it isn't physically possible to go from 50mph to cyclists speed of 1-5mph in the distance between that corner and your bike.


The problem there is that the guy going 50 is going too fast, not that the guy going 15 is going too slow.

That's why your state has ORS 811.100: (1)A person commits the offense of violating the basic speed rule if the person drives a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard to all of the following:
(a) The traffic
....
(e) Visibility.


i.e. if that curve limits your visibility, you need to slow down so you don't rear end traffic that might have the audacity to go slower than you on the other side of it.
Even if the sign says the speed limit is 50mph, whether that is a reasonable and prudent speed depends on your particular vehicle's weight and stopping power.
 
2013-09-27 12:37:04 AM  

serial_crusher: Kahabut: it isn't physically possible to go from 50mph to cyclists speed of 1-5mph in the distance between that corner and your bike.

The problem there is that the guy going 50 is going too fast, not that the guy going 15 is going too slow.

That's why your state has ORS 811.100: (1)A person commits the offense of violating the basic speed rule if the person drives a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard to all of the following:
(a) The traffic
....
(e) Visibility.

i.e. if that curve limits your visibility, you need to slow down so you don't rear end traffic that might have the audacity to go slower than you on the other side of it.
Even if the sign says the speed limit is 50mph, whether that is a reasonable and prudent speed depends on your particular vehicle's weight and stopping power.


Yeah, I've had this conversation before.

Me: You create a dangerous gap in speed by cycling on this mostly uphill road with limited sight lines
Cyclists: You should slow down then
Me: I do, that's why I don't have to scrape you off my bumper but that doesn't stop at least one cyclist per year dying on this road to this exact cause
Cyclists: everyone should slow down, because ____________(insert poorly understood or simply improbable to be followed law which isn't enforced the way you pretend it is).
Me: But you're still dead, do you really think that's a good deal?
Cyclists: WHARBARGLE you are trying to kill us!!!!!
Cyclists: What about other cars, you could hit one of them if you don't slow down, murderer!!!!
Me: A disabled vehicle is required to put out flares, a slow moving vehicle is still moving faster than the fastest cyclists on a long hill.  So no, that isn't a reasonable point at all.

Look, I'll make it simple.  I drive within the law, you cycle within the law, and we aren't going to have a lot of problems.  I still hate you when I find you on a mountain pass doing 1mph and taking the middle of the lane, but  I won't be running you over, because unlike the majority, I can actually farking drive my car.  On that token though, when you do get your ass run over, don't expect much in the way of sympathy.
 
2013-09-27 12:44:22 AM  
Totally off-topic, but I'm having a really great cup of coffee right now.

The secretary must have switched beans.
 
2013-09-27 04:29:34 AM  

This text is now purple: ZeroCorpse: In many states bicycles are perfectly legal (and often preferred) on the sidewalk. In Michigan anything classified as a bicycle is legally allowed to ride the sidewalk as long as they grant right-of-way to pedestrians.

Varies city by city. It's not legal within Houghton city limits, for instance. And your route from town to campus goes past the police station.


Illegal in Chicago if you are over 12 years of age.
 
Displayed 244 of 244 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report