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(Huffington Post)   We now interrupt The Ted Cruz Show to bring you actual important information about the ACA   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Show Low, ACA, obamacare, humans, sliding scales, out-of-pocket expenses, 36th state, President Theodore Roosevelt  
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3531 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Sep 2013 at 1:48 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-25 12:42:43 PM  
The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.
 
2013-09-25 12:53:24 PM  

DamnYankees: The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.


I wouldn't say "never." I think that in 5 years people will look at it and see how well it's working and the fact that it is referred to as Obamacare and it'll be permanently attached to the Democrats in a positive light.
 
2013-09-25 12:56:15 PM  

DamnYankees: The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.


You know that infamous LBJ quote about the civil rights act? "Passing this will guarantee the [African Americans] to vote Democrat for the next 100 years"

I have a feeling this will have a similar effect for women, minorities, blue-collar workers, poor and middle class americans

Think about it, this is one of the few pieces of legislation that has such a far-reaching beneficial effects than most bills can ever hope to have
 
2013-09-25 01:03:06 PM  

DamnYankees: The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.


Then why are Republicans battering themselves against this bug zapper like it f*cked their mother?

Obama didn't embrace the "Obanacare" pejorative for nothing.
 
2013-09-25 01:04:00 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I wouldn't say "never." I think that in 5 years people will look at it and see how well it's working and the fact that it is referred to as Obamacare and it'll be permanently attached to the Democrats in a positive light.


Now that it's passed, people are seeing what's in it.
 
2013-09-25 01:04:12 PM  
Heh.

"Obanana".

I'm surprised the Tea Partiers haven't picked up on that one, actually.
 
2013-09-25 01:05:45 PM  

gilgigamesh: Heh.

"Obanana".

I'm surprised the Tea Partiers haven't picked up on that one, actually.


Make 'em say uhhhh...oba-na-na.
 
2013-09-25 01:06:24 PM  

gilgigamesh: DamnYankees: The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.

Then why are Republicans battering themselves against this bug zapper like it f*cked their mother?

Obama didn't embrace the "Obanacare" pejorative for nothing.


The Republicans are pinning this on Eric Bana now?! Trekkies really are the hardest fans to please.
 
2013-09-25 01:06:52 PM  

gilgigamesh: Then why are Republicans battering themselves against this bug zapper like it f*cked their mother?


I love this so farking much.
 
2013-09-25 01:09:09 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: oba-na-na.


Doo dooooo da doo doo.
 
2013-09-25 01:10:06 PM  
I have one simple hope from all of this. I hope I never ever again see a fundraiser for a little kid with a horrible, but curable disease but no health insurance that needs a really huge sum of money to get the needed treatment.

Ok, I have two simple wishes. I don't ever want to see a friend declare bankruptcy and lose everything over medical bills again.

Yeah, that would make the world a better place.
 
2013-09-25 01:12:49 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I wouldn't say "never." I think that in 5 years people will look at it and see how well it's working and the fact that it is referred to as Obamacare and it'll be permanently attached to the Democrats in a positive light.


But its important to remember that people in their daily life will never encounter "Obamacare". Every exchange that you actually buy your insurance from has a different name based on the state, none of which give any clue that it's actually Obamacare. People don't really pay attention to this stuff.

somedude210: You know that infamous LBJ quote about the civil rights act? "Passing this will guarantee the [African Americans] to vote Democrat for the next 100 years"

I have a feeling this will have a similar effect for women, minorities, blue-collar workers, poor and middle class americans


Maybe, but the counterargument is that Medicare did absolutely nothing to get old people to vote for Democrats. It's one of those things that once an issue is 'solved', people don't really care who solved it and reward them for it, but rather the issue is just taken off the table entirely as a partisan issue.

Remember, a big part of the reason the Civil Rights Act cemented blacks to the Democratic Party is that the GOP continues to be pretty racist.
 
2013-09-25 01:15:19 PM  
In 2 years the Republicans will be saying that the ACA was all Romney's idea.
 
2013-09-25 01:19:24 PM  

vernonFL: In 2 years the Republicans will be saying that the ACA was all Romney's idea.


And that Michele Bachmann  helped draft it
 
2013-09-25 01:20:37 PM  

gilgigamesh: DamnYankees: The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.

Then why are Republicans battering themselves against this bug zapper like it f*cked their mother?

Obama didn't embrace the "Obanacare" pejorative for nothing.


The Republicans went to the "ZOMG DEATH PANELS" derp so early on this that it probably doesn't even need to work that well to be a positive for the Democrats. It just has to not be what they said it was.
 
2013-09-25 01:22:40 PM  
For those who are curious, Ted Cruz just voted FOR cloture - i.e. he voted against his own filibuster. As Jonathan Bernstein points out, this is the classic Obama-era GOP move - obstruct, delay and prevent even stuff you support simply for the sake of clogging up the government.
 
2013-09-25 01:28:48 PM  

DamnYankees: For those who are curious, Ted Cruz just voted FOR cloture - i.e. he voted against his own filibuster.


You're giving him far too much credit. What he did would be like picketing a business but waiting until it closes for the day and leaving before the openers show up.
 
2013-09-25 01:33:20 PM  

vernonFL: In 2 years the Republicans will be saying that the ACA was all Romney's idea.


In two years, the Republicans will be saying what I'm saying right now, which is that this is the plan the Republicans came up with in the 1990's.

Of course I'm saying it to get them to shut the fu*k up. They'll be saying it like it was their idea all along.
 
2013-09-25 01:33:59 PM  

Endive Wombat: vernonFL: In 2 years the Republicans will be saying that the ACA was all Romney's idea.

And that Michele Bachmann  helped draft it


Well, the framework for what we today call Obamacare *did* come from a major conservative think tank.  Kind of ironic.  Or moronic.  Either way, the Republicans shot themselves in the foot nuts.
 
2013-09-25 01:34:15 PM  

DamnYankees: his own filibuster


It wasn't a filibuster, it was a tantrum.
 
2013-09-25 01:36:08 PM  

Calmamity: vernonFL: In 2 years the Republicans will be saying that the ACA was all Romney's idea.

In two years, the Republicans will be saying what I'm saying right now, which is that this is the plan the Republicans came up with in the 1990's.

Of course I'm saying it to get them to shut the fu*k up. They'll be saying it like it was their idea all along.


The *instant* you hear a Republican actually refer to the ACA as the ACA (and not Obamacare) is the instant you know the GOP is changing its message and starting up the spin machine in a (vain?) attempt to get around the collective memory of the country.

Good luck with that, guys...
 
2013-09-25 01:36:55 PM  

Calmamity: DamnYankees: his own filibuster

It wasn't a filibuster, it was a tantrum.


Well, it is a filibuster, in that they needed to file cloture on it. Cruz's speech itself was not the filibuster, but the bill itself was filibustered.
 
2013-09-25 01:39:58 PM  

DamnYankees: Remember, a big part of the reason the Civil Rights Act cemented blacks to the Democratic Party is that the GOP continues to be pretty racist.


Republicans are gonna be pretty anti-Obamacare for the duration because of that racism (weird how that works)
 
2013-09-25 01:41:15 PM  

DamnYankees: Well, it is a filibuster, in that they needed to file cloture on it.


Not really. The Republicans agreed to cloture because it would let them vote against continuing to fund the government while still allowing it to pass; after cloture comes a simple majority up/down vote.
 
2013-09-25 01:42:02 PM  

somedude210: Republicans are gonna be pretty anti-Obamacare for the duration because of that racism (weird how that works)


Yes, but like I said above, the average person is simply not going to associate the benefits they are getting under Obamacare with "Obamacare". They won't see the connection. This will permit the GOP to continue to be anti-"Obamacare" while simultaneously not opposing the actual benefits people are getting.

I mean, I hope I'm wrong on this, but I don't think so.
 
2013-09-25 01:42:38 PM  

sprawl15: DamnYankees: Well, it is a filibuster, in that they needed to file cloture on it.

Not really. The Republicans agreed to cloture because it would let them vote against continuing to fund the government while still allowing it to pass; after cloture comes a simple majority up/down vote.


The fact that cloture was required at all is what makes it a filibuster. That's what a filibuster is - refusing to let the bill go forward without cloture.
 
2013-09-25 01:42:59 PM  

somedude210: You know that infamous LBJ quote about the civil rights act? "Passing this will guarantee the [African Americans] to vote Democrat for the next 100 years"


No. I do know the quote: ""We have lost the South for a generation," though.
 
2013-09-25 01:45:13 PM  

gilgigamesh: Heh.

"Obanana".

I'm surprised the Tea Partiers haven't picked up on that one, actually.


Searched google for site:freerepublic.com "obanana care" , came up with 2 results from 2010. If you just search the term Obanana, though... 9,030 results. But they're not racist, please don't misunderstand me.
 
2013-09-25 01:50:51 PM  

DamnYankees: The fact that cloture was required at all is what makes it a filibuster. That's what a filibuster is - refusing to let the bill go forward without cloture.


No, cloture was invoked before the 'filibuster' began. Cloture is simply the decision to put a time limit on discussion, and the time limit was today. This was to allow the maximum possible discussion on the bill while still meeting the 30 Sept deadline before the government shuts down. Cloture is the only method to overcome a filibuster, but that is not cloture's only role.

Look at it the other way: if cloture was invoked to specifically end Cruz's 'filibuster', people wouldn't have known to the minute when he would have to shut up and sit down before he started.
 
2013-09-25 01:53:15 PM  
will be $249 a month

Still just enough to eliminate whatever small amount of savings or entertainment budget someone not making 6 figures might have hoped to have had.
 
2013-09-25 01:54:17 PM  
I like Obanoffee pie.
 
2013-09-25 01:54:26 PM  

sprawl15: No, cloture was invoked before the 'filibuster' began.


I don't think you're understanding me. I agree, what Ted Cruz was not a filibuster. But the bill was still filibustered by the GOP; Ted's speech just wasn't the thing that did it. He just decided to talk during the time that was being left empty by the filibuster anyways.
 
2013-09-25 01:55:55 PM  

StrangeQ: will be $249 a month

Still just enough to eliminate whatever small amount of savings or entertainment budget someone not making 6 figures might have hoped to have had.


That's before subsidies.
 
2013-09-25 01:57:44 PM  

DamnYankees: For those who are curious, Ted Cruz just voted FOR cloture - i.e. he voted against his own filibuster. As Jonathan Bernstein points out, this is the classic Obama-era GOP move - obstruct, delay and prevent even stuff you support simply for the sake of clogging up the government.


wait.. when .. where.. source? I thought the cloture vote wasn't going to happen till this weekend?
 
2013-09-25 01:58:11 PM  

DamnYankees: But the bill was still filibustered by the GOP


It was not. If it was being procedurally filibustered by the GOP, how would a cloture vote have succeeded? If the Democrats were simply overcoming the GOP's procedural filibuster, why would they have allowed further discussion for another day and a half (that Cruz happened to piss away) instead of just moving on to the next step?

I mean, I get what you're saying but it just doesn't seem to make any sense for a filibuster proof majority to allow a filibuster to happen anyway for a few days despite already invoking cloture.
 
2013-09-25 01:58:28 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: gilgigamesh: Heh.

"Obanana".

I'm surprised the Tea Partiers haven't picked up on that one, actually.

Make 'em say uhhhh...oba-na-na.


If I had to pick one date to mark the death of hip hop, it would be the day that song was released.
 
2013-09-25 02:00:23 PM  

sprawl15: It was not. If it was being procedurally filibustered by the GOP, how would a cloture vote have succeeded?


The GOP filibusters bills all the time they support. That's been their MO for 5 years now. Are you not paying attention? They filibuster to force a cloture vote, then vote for cloture. This isn't new.

sprawl15: I mean, I get what you're saying but it just doesn't seem to make any sense for a filibuster proof majority to allow a filibuster to happen anyway for a few days despite already invoking cloture.


The rules of the Senate say that once a an objection to the motion to proceed (the filibuster) has been filed, you need to wait X hours to vote for cloture (that's why there was the time period for Cruz to talk), and then you have to wait another X hours to actually vote on the bill (which is why we still need to wait a few days for the Senate to pass the bill).
 
2013-09-25 02:02:20 PM  

speakandgo: DamnYankees: For those who are curious, Ted Cruz just voted FOR cloture - i.e. he voted against his own filibuster. As Jonathan Bernstein points out, this is the classic Obama-era GOP move - obstruct, delay and prevent even stuff you support simply for the sake of clogging up the government.

wait.. when .. where.. source? I thought the cloture vote wasn't going to happen till this weekend?


I think today was the vote on cloture and this weekend would be the actual up or down vote on the bill (or what remains of it once the defund Obamacare stuff is removed).
 
2013-09-25 02:03:30 PM  
Article fails to mention death panels.
 
2013-09-25 02:03:33 PM  

speakandgo: DamnYankees: For those who are curious, Ted Cruz just voted FOR cloture - i.e. he voted against his own filibuster. As Jonathan Bernstein points out, this is the classic Obama-era GOP move - obstruct, delay and prevent even stuff you support simply for the sake of clogging up the government.

wait.. when .. where.. source? I thought the cloture vote wasn't going to happen till this weekend?


Cloture vote today passed 100-0. It was blasted on twitter, I haven't seen a story filed yet.
 
2013-09-25 02:03:44 PM  

DamnYankees: But its important to remember that people in their daily life will never encounter "Obamacare". Every exchange that you actually buy your insurance from has a different name based on the state, none of which give any clue that it's actually Obamacare. People don't really pay attention to this stuff.


Initially, yes.  But I guarantee you, one of their tea bagger friends will eventually tell them that they're on Obamacare.  They may credit their state for fixing Obamacare or making it workable, but they'll know deep down it's Obamacare.
 
2013-09-25 02:04:28 PM  

NeoCortex42: I think today was the vote on cloture and this weekend would be the actual up or down vote on the bill (or what remains of it once the defund Obamacare stuff is removed).


so.. up or down would mean 51 votes gets it.. no filibuster attempt?  I thought that cloture meant debate was over, and only during debate could you filibuster?
 
2013-09-25 02:05:19 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: DamnYankees: The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.

I wouldn't say "never." I think that in 5 years people will look at it and see how well it's working and the fact that it is referred to as Obamacare and it'll be permanently attached to the Democrats in a positive light.


This is where the Republicans messed up the framing of things. They wanted it to fail, and they sold themselves a line of bull (and bought it wholesale) that anything to do with Obama is the same thing as failure, so they named it ObamaCare hoping it would fail and the name would stick.

Even though the earliest numbers showed how much people would save, and how good it's going to be for the economy.

Now they can't roll it back. They can't claim they were even for it a little bit. They spent so long saying how it totally wasn't like Romney's version in MA, they painted themselves in a corner. And so the 'epithet' becomes the thing they fear most.

It becomes the name of something successful. And they're the ones that look like Hoyle when he laughingly called a non-steady-state Universe one created with "the big bang", or like CmdrTaco of Slashdot who said the newfangled iPod thing was summed up with "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

We warned them they were shooting themselves in the foot. They didn't listen. I have no sympathy for them.
 
2013-09-25 02:05:58 PM  

gilgigamesh: Heh.

"Obanana".

I'm surprised the Tea Partiers haven't picked up on that one, actually.


i1335.photobucket.com

OBANANA!
 
2013-09-25 02:06:16 PM  
Sarah would be dead right now if it were left to the government bureaucrats

 i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2013-09-25 02:06:47 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Initially, yes.  But I guarantee you, one of their tea bagger friends will eventually tell them that they're on Obamacare.  They may credit their state for fixing Obamacare or making it workable, but they'll know deep down it's Obamacare.


All I can say is I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong.
 
2013-09-25 02:07:35 PM  
$249 a month?

That's the same as what's withheld from my paycheck for my health insurance. (Not even including the Medicare withholding or disability insurance.)

What's the catch?
 
2013-09-25 02:08:24 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: DamnYankees: The politics of this are never going to be for the Democrats; it's never gonna inure to the their benefit. But the fact that this looks like it has a chance of working well is simply a great thing for the welfare of Americans. For that would should be happy.

I wouldn't say "never." I think that in 5 years people will look at it and see how well it's working and the fact that it is referred to as Obamacare and it'll be permanently attached to the Democrats in a positive light.


Not that the GOP won't keep trying to defund it and destroy it.
 
2013-09-25 02:10:26 PM  

DamnYankees: For those who are curious, Ted Cruz just voted FOR cloture - i.e. he voted against his own filibuster. As Jonathan Bernstein points out, this is the classic Obama-era GOP move - obstruct, delay and prevent even stuff you support simply for the sake of clogging up the government.


And then blaing the mess on Obama.
 
2013-09-25 02:12:41 PM  
Stephen  would be dead right now if it were left to the government bureaucrats
www.independent.co.uk
 
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