If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(IT World)   The most WTF-y programming languages   (itworld.com) divider line 270
    More: Interesting, programming languages, GitHub Archive, W.T.F.?, UTC, Internet forum  
•       •       •

6605 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Sep 2013 at 10:52 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



270 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-09-25 09:12:14 AM  
No mention of LISP?

/yes I know it has specific applications
//hated it in college
///never used it since
 
2013-09-25 09:17:55 AM  
One good thing (if any) about Visual Basic proper is that it was marginally easier to read when I had to go back in and try to fix something five years (and three "developers") after it was initially written.
 
2013-09-25 09:19:01 AM  
Nothing on APL?

/learned it in middle school, have forgotten every last bit of it
 
2013-09-25 09:22:40 AM  
Biased toward languages people use the most. It stands to reason that if the bulk of programmers work a particular language, it's going to receive the brunt of the criticism due to familiarity -- people finding exploits, loopholes, bugs, flaws, security holes, weird things going on, and general code doucheyness.

Languages that don't rank doesn't mean they're any good, it just means their use is too infrequent and their community too small to accumulate any meaningful gripes.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-09-25 09:26:14 AM  
I learned APL in high school. I refuse to use J, that ASCII abomination.
 
2013-09-25 10:07:51 AM  
Larbi's list was based on searching through the actual code for instances of the string "WTF". I, instead, looked for stand-alone instances of "WTF" in the comments attached to GitHub commits. The idea was to weed out cases where the string "WTF" was legitimately used in the code, as opposed to being inserted as a comment indicating confusion. Here was the query I used to count the total WTFs in commit comments by repository language pushed between 1/1/2012 and 9/23/2013 (there were over 50 million total commits pushed during this time):

OK this is a cute idea and all, but really all you just found out is which languages programmers biatch the most in comments. So, the ones that have the most non-programmers using them: Visual Basic, PERL, Python.

Congratulations. You studied it out.
 
2013-09-25 10:13:41 AM  
C/S/B: At the height of Red Hat's rise from the Linux dogpile to monetize the kernel (around 1996-1997) I remember downloading kernel 2.0.34 for my spiffy Pentium 90. It had sound, and I had a fresh haul of mp3 from usenet and irc.

Well, hours and hours of compiles, reading howtos, and reading hannu's original 1994 sound card code, still nothing worked. Finally I found the actual driver being used.

It was a redhat contributed driver that loaded the sound card module, they'd installed a tweak. And in that tweak was a wall of comments by some poor guy, dated 12/24 .. saying he gave up, he had no idea why things weren't working, and it was time for his x-mas holiday.

So redhat, at that point, proved that Eric S. Raymond's "cathedral / baazzaar" means nothing if there's monetization involved - open source can be as open as it wants, and there's still a company with a release deadline around to mess it up.

None of this is relevant to code, just reminded of it when mentioning comments. I always used to look for 'fark' in comments, just to see what the guys were angry about. But not in any way thought hey, this means the language is this or is that. More like, the users of that language were just tending to spew comments.
 
2013-09-25 10:14:25 AM  
I didn't mind VB or Perl.
 
2013-09-25 10:15:25 AM  
So, developers hate every major language?
 
2013-09-25 10:18:02 AM  
Different definition of WFT-y then I expected.

I figured that LOLCode was going to be top of the list.
 
2013-09-25 10:19:12 AM  
VB6 is probably the most hated because there's a shiat-ton of it out there and a good portion of it was rapid-coded with no commentary and by non-programmers. And most packages had a load of similarly named COM libraries adding to the confusion of multi-tier craziness.  And it was unmanaged and there's a lot of ADO out there meaning the apps will often blow the fark up when people screw with data on the back end.

And no DB languages?  Try TSQL because of what seems like a syntax only compiler...and a no easy setup for debugging (you *have* to use Windows Authentication)
 
2013-09-25 10:21:03 AM  
i1282.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-25 10:25:04 AM  

nekom: No mention of LISP?

/yes I know it has specific applications
//hated it in college
///never used it since


(Hey! (I (came here) to) (say that))(!)
 
2013-09-25 10:26:01 AM  
I use 7 of those. Sure I hate them a little but it beats tracking pointers in C.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-09-25 10:40:50 AM  
I got paid to use Lisp (Scheme) in industry. Better than getting paid to use C++.

Unfortunately all the job listings I've found recently want to pay me to write C++.

Him: "Do you know STL?"

Me, silently: Please don't tell me I'm going to have to use STL and decode multipage error messages because g++ doesn't know how to compress type expansions.

Me, out loud: "I use the basic parts, list and map and so forth, not all the algorithms."

Me, silently: The OCaml compiler maintained by a tenth as many people knows how to pick a useful abbreviation for a complex type. Why can't a major compiler produce an error message better than "something went wrong at this line and you can spend hours decoding the next 50 lines or just eyeball the code and see if something looks out of place." Oh, wait, he's still talking. What did he ask me?
 
2013-09-25 10:45:04 AM  
I give this article a C+.
 
2013-09-25 10:58:17 AM  
At first I was surprised there wasn't a mention of Coldfusion/Cfscript, but then I remembered only like 4 companies actually use it.

/My company is number 3.
//CF7 too! Not only a useless language, but a dead one too.
 
2013-09-25 10:58:33 AM  
 
2013-09-25 11:01:42 AM  

ZAZ: I learned APL in high school. I refuse to use J, that ASCII abomination.


The cool kids are using 'q' anyway.

I keep trying to get happy with J, but it always reminds me too much of TECO.

I assume you know about A+.  In case someone else is interested,
here it is, a free, almost-superset of APL, with some graphics capability.

/I'd love to hear Whitney speak sometime.  I bet he's interesting.
 
rpm
2013-09-25 11:04:12 AM  

nekom: No mention of LISP?

(yes I know it has specific applications
((hated it in college
(((never used it since


FTFY
 
2013-09-25 11:05:01 AM  
"...list of the 10 most hated programming languages:

10. Python..."

farm4.staticflickr.com
 
rpm
2013-09-25 11:06:11 AM  

China White Tea: "...list of the 10 most hated programming languages:

10. Python..."

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 250x272]


Anything with significant leading whitespace is an abomination.
 
2013-09-25 11:11:00 AM  
List fails without Homespring (PDF warning)

5 The River Paradigm
Homespring uses the paradigm of a river to create its astoundingly user-friendly
semantics. Each program is a river system which flows into the watershed (the
terminal output). Information is carried by salmon (which represent string
values), which swim upstream trying to find their home river. Terminal input
causes a new salmon to be spawned at the river mouth; when a salmon leaves
the river system for the ocean, its value is output to the terminal. In this way,
terminal I/O is neatly and elegantly represented within the system metaphor.
The river is represented in an n-ary tree structure
2
Each node in the tree is
associated with
1. a name
2. a list of salmon present at that node
3. a power state
4. a water state
5. a snow state
6. a destroyed state
where each of the "states" in the above list is a boolean value. The name of the
node determines its behaviour; a list of reserved names is in section 7.2. Every
node whose name is not a reserved name is a spring: it creates water.
Each salmon in the river system is associated with
2
In the HOtMEfSPRIbNG reference implementation, the parser allows for n-ary trees but
the interpreter only runs the first two children of each node. This implementation runs over
the full n-ary tree.
4
1. a name
2. an age (young or mature)
3. a direction (upstream or downstream)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------------------------
Here are several possible implementations of the important and useful UNIX
utility 'hello'. This is the simplest possible one:
Universe bear hatchery Hello. World!.
Powers marshy marshy snowmelt
This is the same program written in professional style, with a more cohesive
sentence structure:
Universe of bear hatchery says Hello. World!.
It powers the marshy things;
the power of the snowmelt overrides.
Here's the alternative, more complicated and less efficient preferred method:
Universe of marshy force. Field sense
shallows the hatchery saying Hello,. World!.
Hydro. Power spring sometimes; snowmelt
powers snowmelt always.
This is the somewhat less common but still often useful, "Hi. What's your
name? Hi, xxx!" program.
Universe marshy now. The marshy stuff evaporates downstream. Sense rapids
upstream. Killing. Device downstream. Sense shallows and say Hi,.
That powers the force. Field sense shallows hatchery power.
Hi .. What's. your. name?.
Hydro. Power spring when snowmelt then powers
insulated bear hatchery !.
Powers felt; powers feel snowmelt themselves.
This program tests whether the user knows what six times four is, and get
this: the
program
knows what six times four is!
Universe alive with youth. Fountain bear Marshy
evaporates downstream. Sense rapids
upstream. Killing. Device downstream. Sense shallows you. lie!.
Powers force. Field sense shallows the hatchery but
what's. six. times. four?.
Hydro. Power spring with snowmelt which has
powers enough.
It powers snowmelt at least.
 
2013-09-25 11:16:02 AM  
As someone attempting to thoroughly learn Java, inside and out, what is the BEST language to use?  The least WTF-y?
 
2013-09-25 11:16:44 AM  

zedster: Here are several possible implementations of the important and useful UNIX
utility 'hello'. This is the simplest possible one:
Universe bear hatchery Hello. World!.
Powers marshy marshy snowmelt
This is the same program written in professional style, with a more cohesive
sentence structure:
Universe of bear hatchery says Hello. World!.
It powers the marshy things;
the power of the snowmelt overrides.
Here's the alternative, more complicated and less efficient preferred method:
Universe of marshy force. Field sense
shallows the hatchery saying Hello,. World!.
Hydro. Power spring sometimes; snowmelt
powers snowmelt always.
This is the somewhat less common but still often useful, "Hi. What's your
name? Hi, xxx!" program.
Universe marshy now. The marshy stuff evaporates downstream. Sense rapids
upstream. Killing. Device downstream. Sense shallows and say Hi,.
That powers the force. Field sense shallows hatchery power.
Hi .. What's. your. name?.
Hydro. Power spring when snowmelt then powers
insulated bear hatchery !.
Powers felt; powers feel snowmelt themselves.
This program tests whether the user knows what six times four is, and get
this: the
program
knows what six times four is!
Universe alive with youth. Fountain bear Marshy
evaporates downstream. Sense rapids
upstream. Killing. Device downstream. Sense shallows you. lie!.
Powers force. Field sense shallows the hatchery but
what's. six. times. four?.
Hydro. Power spring with snowmelt which has
powers enough.
It powers snowmelt at least.


WTF did I just read?
 
2013-09-25 11:17:43 AM  

YodaBlues: At first I was surprised there wasn't a mention of Coldfusion/Cfscript, but then I remembered only like 4 companies actually use it.

/My company is number 3.
//CF7 too! Not only a useless language, but a dead one too.


Long live ColdFusion!
/5
 
2013-09-25 11:21:07 AM  
FORTH isn't listed at all?

I was very intrigued when I took the class for this back in college, but it is completely unlike any other language.
 
rpm
2013-09-25 11:22:18 AM  

IntertubeUser: As someone attempting to thoroughly learn Java, inside and out, what is the BEST language to use?  The least WTF-y?


There aren't any. It depends on what you want to do with it.
 
2013-09-25 11:22:26 AM  
I work in VB. I would rather work in almost any other language.

I will give it one plus, that it is easy to read.
 
2013-09-25 11:22:29 AM  
Tell turtle right turn 90.
 
2013-09-25 11:24:05 AM  

IntertubeUser: As someone attempting to thoroughly learn Java, inside and out, what is the BEST language to use?  The least WTF-y?


It's a little high on the WTF factor until you get used to functional programming, but Scala is a really nice hybrid OO/FP language that runs on the Java JVM.
 
2013-09-25 11:25:18 AM  
Worked in C++ from 92 to 98. Wrote lots of horrifically complicated systems software in it. Debugged all too much horrifically complicated systems software written by a guy who started out as an EE and coded like one (hey, let's use pointer math for everything!), and another guy who knew every obscure in and out of C++, and used them all. Both brilliant people we created some seriously ahead of their time systems, but their code had opacity levels far beyond mere WTF. This shiat went to plaid.

You know how some people have nightmares about showing up to a final exam late, unprepared and naked? I've been out of school so long I don't have those, but I do have nightmares that I show up to work on day and everything had been changed over to C++.
 
2013-09-25 11:26:34 AM  
How can anyone hate Python?  It's so incredibly easy to use.  Even the error messages are obvious.
 
2013-09-25 11:27:08 AM  

rpm: China White Tea: "...list of the 10 most hated programming languages:

10. Python..."

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 250x272]

Anything with significant leading whitespace is an abomination.


I swear, the basis of the entire language was formed by those types of developers who argue over whether a tab-indent should be 4 spaces or 5.

/Who care?
 
2013-09-25 11:28:08 AM  

rpm: China White Tea: "...list of the 10 most hated programming languages:

10. Python..."

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 250x272]

Anything with significant leading whitespace is an abomination.


THIS
 
2013-09-25 11:28:08 AM  

IntertubeUser: As someone attempting to thoroughly learn Java, inside and out, what is the BEST language to use?  The least WTF-y?


In my experience as operations, Java has the most fanboy worshipping devotees who are completely oblivious to the problems their chosen language causes the rest of the enterprise. So, I could see fewer "wtf" comments. Java devs are blissed-out koolaid-slurpers
 
2013-09-25 11:28:36 AM  

Dragonflew: Tell turtle right turn 90.


REPEAT 10[PRINTLN "+1"]

I'm currently teaching a colleague all about computer programming. And I've found that using Logo is still a great way to start.
 
2013-09-25 11:30:40 AM  
Labview is farking annoying.  Programming with a damn flow chart is not necessarily more convenient or more intuitive.
 
2013-09-25 11:31:01 AM  

YodaBlues: rpm: China White Tea: "...list of the 10 most hated programming languages:

10. Python..."

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 250x272]

Anything with significant leading whitespace is an abomination.

I swear, the basis of the entire language was formed by those types of developers who argue over whether a tab-indent should be 4 spaces or 5.

/Who care?


?  Python sure doesn't care.  Just stick with tabs or spaces and it really doesn't give a shiat, honest.
 
2013-09-25 11:31:38 AM  

Arkanaut: WTF did I just read?


just read the pdf, totes worth it, totes
 
2013-09-25 11:31:48 AM  

Generation_D: OK this is a cute idea and all, but really all you just found out is which languages programmers biatch the most in comments. So, the ones that have the most non-programmers using them: Visual Basic, PERL, Python.

Congratulations. You studied it out.


There's definitely a lot of WTFy Perl out there from the sort of people who would rather type 9 fewer characters than leave behind easily readable code.
 
2013-09-25 11:36:50 AM  

IntertubeUser: As someone attempting to thoroughly learn Java, inside and out, what is the BEST language to use?  The least WTF-y?


The WTF levels are mostly a function of the people who wrote the code. The language sets a potential WTFibility.

Java I find has a relatively low potential WTF compared to most other popular languages. Strongly object oriented. Strongly typed. No operator overloading. A fairly clear and consistent syntax, core api, etc. I'd stick with that.

Truly the only language that matters for and that you must use to create non-WTF code is English. Explain what your code does in simple English. Comment your code.

If you are learning, now is the time to develop good commenting habits. I find a good way to make sure you don't forget to comment code, is to write the comments first. You are internally thinking things out in English before you code, so get that inner monologue into the file. Write the story of what you are going to do in clear English, and then fill in the code that does it between the comments. Most people do it the other way around, which is why most source files are poorly commented. Going back to comment things later is the first victim of time pressure.
 
2013-09-25 11:37:51 AM  
There are some convoluted novels written in English.   It's a pretty sucky language.  Obviously the best language to write novels in is Japanese with it's top to bottom writing flow and inherited standard kanji symbology.  One could also choose French, but its methods are too strongly typed for some amateur novelists.
 
2013-09-25 11:38:28 AM  

zedster: Arkanaut: WTF did I just read?

just read the pdf, totes worth it, totes


My work network blocked the .pdf. Reason? "Webfilter Category: none"

It just flat-out said "no".
 
2013-09-25 11:38:49 AM  

Abner Doon: ?  Python sure doesn't care.  Just stick with tabs or spaces and it really doesn't give a shiat, honest.


Pretty much this.  Python just wants you to indent your shiat consistently within a given block, and so do I.
 
2013-09-25 11:39:28 AM  
I started with Qbasic in late elementary school.  I don't know if I was too young, or if it was just bonkers insane.
 
2013-09-25 11:41:43 AM  

lemurs: Abner Doon: ?  Python sure doesn't care.  Just stick with tabs or spaces and it really doesn't give a shiat, honest.

Pretty much this.  Python just wants you to indent your shiat consistently within a given block, and so do I.


^.

I'm pretty sure that, just like using a turn signal while driving in Houston, producing "neat" code is considered to be a sign of weakness by some people.
 
2013-09-25 11:42:02 AM  
No Fortran? No Pascal?
 
2013-09-25 11:42:14 AM  

Generation_D: IntertubeUser: As someone attempting to thoroughly learn Java, inside and out, what is the BEST language to use?  The least WTF-y?

In my experience as operations, Java has the most fanboy worshipping devotees who are completely oblivious to the problems their chosen language causes the rest of the enterprise. So, I could see fewer "wtf" comments. Java devs are blissed-out koolaid-slurpers


I suspect that the reason for this is that every intro-to-Java book out there begins with a chapter on the history and greatness of Java, and never a compare-and-contrast with other languages.  As a novice to programming, I've drank that kool-aid ... and didn't even know that it was kool-aid.
 
2013-09-25 11:43:56 AM  
If you're a SNOBOL or COBOL coder, you're laughing at this all the way to the bank.
 
Displayed 50 of 270 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report