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(Orlando Sentinel)   What do Orlando gun owners need? Free shotguns, according to one gun rights group   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 70
    More: Florida, Orlando, Acp, shotguns, property crime, guns  
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2103 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2013 at 11:44 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-25 01:55:49 AM

GodComplex: The last gunshop I went too had an over under 'home defense' shotgun with rails everywhere. And I thought how silly it was, cause how can you call it home defense without a bayonet lug? It also cost more than a pump, which baffles me.


Probably one of those crappy Stoegers. I made the mistake of getting their coach gun last year. It looks pretty, but doesn't have ejectors, and the hand guard tends to pop off after you fire a shot, which can lead to the whole thing falling apart in your hands if you're not careful. They also make an "HD" version of this SxS as well, with the rails and a bayonet lug and all. I can't imagine who (except Biden, I guess) would actually consider something so ridiculous for HD.
 
2013-09-25 02:03:44 AM

MREbomber: Probably one of those crappy Stoegers. I made the mistake of getting their coach gun last year.


I first read that as "couch gun" and thought of invisible gorillas. (Once they're stuck in your head, they're kind of hard to get rid of.)
 
2013-09-25 02:05:44 AM
ski9600
Yeah, here's the problem: To keep the gun safe in a typical home you'd need a gun safe. And then when you need the gun it's in the safe and takes too long to bring into the action. They need to speed the "finger-print trigger" to the market.
/oh, wait I-Phone


The idea of putting an RFID in a palm, something like a pet identifier, except it enables firearm to shoot. It has been discussed since I think the early 90's or before. I remember talking to my father about it and that was a long time ago.

Ignoring the clear privacy concerns that have come to light since regarding RFID, for good or for bad, it would not allow other family members to shoot it, and RFID could probably be hacked. Also it is one more complexity to a firearm just working.

But nothing wrong with a keyed trigger locked, or a pistol with a well designed lock box.

\Know you were not serious.
 
2013-09-25 02:06:23 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Well done. Two minor points, though.

Great Porn Dragon: b) Establish a national training program for use of firearms and require persons who wish to own a firearm to receive specific training including safety training and target training and to be certified by a trainer as being capable of safe use of a firearm.

The CMP was originally chartered by Congress after the Civil War. Newt's Nimrods privatized it in 1996, which was a huge mistake.

Great Porn Dragon: e) Amend the Constitution appropriately with said bugfix (easiest way to get things through).

The Militia Act can be implemented in any form Congress deems appropriate consistent with the enumerated Militia Powers of Congress (Art. I, Sect. 8, Clauses 14-17 (Clause 17 gets you neighborhood armories) without changing the Constitution in any way.


Ah, thanks for the commentary (and I was actually NOT aware of the CMP being formerly a government agency, so this is actually very helpful for the next time I have to break out the "Damnit, can't we have gun owners be a well regulated organised militia for once?" rant).

The reason I would propose amending the Constitution in this regard is that--inevitably--some GOA-type derpmonger WILL claim that OMFG WE IS SUPPOSED TO BE UNORGANISED MILITIA and pretty much defining "unorganised militia" as "any goddamn idiot with a firearm, no matter their level of training on how to use the thing, time of day, and/or how much liquor they've had to drink this evening".  (More than a few of them even kvetch about basic things like serial numbers on firearms somehow being an Unconstitutional Infringement On Their Right To A Boomstick.)  It's pretty much the reason we're in the mess we're in now--any attempt to put ANY condition on firearms ownership is pretty much rebutted by "THEY NEVER SAID WHAT AN UNORGANISED MILITIA IS SO I WANTS MY BOOMSTICK".

(Again, the fault of this is pretty much when folks wrote the Constitution (the second one, the one in place now) that they made a simple mistake--they assumed that pretty much everyone knew a "well regulated militia" consisted of folks getting regular, bi-yearly training courtesy of the state government.  Alas, as so often happens, assuming makes an ass out of you and me, and apparently out of the law as well.  The Founding Fathers also did not quite anticipate the invention of state police forces and modern law enforcement, and there's actually some pretty strong indications that they really didn't expect the Constitution to last twenty years much less over two hundred without a complete do-over (much like the Second Constitution, aka the present Constitution, was--it was pretty much the result of what happens when a Constitutional Convention for purposes of amending the Articles of Confederation turned into a ConCon for a complete do-over).)

That said--assuming enough cats could be herded--you probably COULD get such a bill passed in a favourable Congress.  (In this case, one with significantly less of a Derp Factor.  Right now, we're kind of in a bit of a fustercluckage thanks to Professional Derpmongers doing their very levelheaded best to rodger the entire US government funding apparatus to keep a compromise between Fark-The-Poor-Care and Universal Single-Payer Healthcare Of The Sort Every Other Developed Nation And A Good Chunk Of Developing Nations Have from getting funded...a compromise some of their brothers actually authored but which is being denied thanks to the combo of it being embraced as a compromise by the Other Side and the Other Side being headed by a Blah Man in the White House right at the time their side went full-on Southern Strategy John Bircher Southern Baptist Dominionist-tarded.  Hilariously, this fustercluckage seems to be led by a man who could legally claim citizenship in two nations (and who HAS citizenship in one, despite avowals he would de-nationalise himself from that country) which HAVE Universal Single-Payer Healthcare...to the tune of the worlds of one Dr. Seuss, who was a Libby McLibberson who would likely support Universal Single-Payer Healthcare.  Passing a well-formed bowel movement with bipartisan support in this Congress would be such a black miracle that it might cause Reality Itself to fracture itself in such a way that kittens spontaneously evolve into furry dragons.)
 
2013-09-25 02:10:58 AM

MREbomber: GodComplex: The last gunshop I went too had an over under 'home defense' shotgun with rails everywhere. And I thought how silly it was, cause how can you call it home defense without a bayonet lug? It also cost more than a pump, which baffles me.

Probably one of those crappy Stoegers. I made the mistake of getting their coach gun last year. It looks pretty, but doesn't have ejectors, and the hand guard tends to pop off after you fire a shot, which can lead to the whole thing falling apart in your hands if you're not careful. They also make an "HD" version of this SxS as well, with the rails and a bayonet lug and all. I can't imagine who (except Biden, I guess) would actually consider something so ridiculous for HD.


That it was. I almost bought it for the sheer ludicrousity of it all. Good to know they're junk. I understand why they make it, I understand their market, and I'm certain there are a lot of people who own one. But at the same time, you're paying more for something with less functionality. The biggest reason to get a shotgun for home defense is the sound of a racking shotgun makes people flee. Break actions don't make much sound.

But at least it's not as ridiculous as the tactical lever action with the telescoping stock. Whoever thought that was a good idea must've had some great drugs.
 
2013-09-25 02:12:28 AM
Imma let y'all finish belittling anyone that wants to own a gun but first:
i.qkme.me
 
2013-09-25 02:28:59 AM

Farty McPooPants: Imma let y'all finish belittling anyone that wants to own a gun but first:
[i.qkme.me image 625x458]


[not_sure_if_serious.jpg]
 
2013-09-25 02:34:15 AM
I know it's somewhat passe to read the article, but subby's troll headline made me wonder. There's nothing in this that mentions existing gun owners. It's offering free firearms to any takers who take a course and pass a background check.
 
2013-09-25 02:56:05 AM
This would be interesting if it were part of a huge experiment.

Several areas of similar demographics are paired off. One half given shotguns, the other left 'untreated' as a control.

Then, sit back and watch crime rates, death by gun rates, suicide rates, etc, to test the hypotheses that guns increase or decrease crime, home invasions, etc.

As it is, it's more than likely just a pro-guns group pushing an agenda.
 
2013-09-25 03:11:17 AM
Great Porn Dragon: lots of words.

That was a good read, and a great deal of common sense.

And the thing I like about your proposal to make sure that people are regularly trained and assessed for competency is that it will change the culture of gun use. For instance, the USA is not alone in having high gun ownership, but it is alone in how often these guns are used to kill people, or people are accidentally killed by guns.

Your proposal is a way to make sure that people who own and use guns are kept in contact with other responsible gun owners, and their approaches to gun use can become entrenched. And, hopefully, the hillbilly/ghetto approach to gun use might just be educated out.

The problem, politically, will be the transition. What to do with gun owners who refuse to become 'well-maintained'?
 
2013-09-25 03:16:47 AM

ansius: The problem, politically, will be the transition. What to do with gun owners who refuse to become 'well-maintained'?


Draft 'em into the Militia like we did in 1792.
 
2013-09-25 03:24:31 AM

ski9600: Yeah, here's the problem:  To keep the gun safe in a typical home you'd need a gun safe.  And then when you need the gun it's in the safe and takes too long to bring into the action.  They need to speed the "finger-print trigger" to the market.

/oh, wait I-Phone


A lot of 4-digit electrical safes take all of two seconds to open and another second to pull the gun out.

Speed's not really a problem if you're actually buying a safe for a single defense weapon.

//Really, we need to make rifle team a standard sport in US high schools again just so that people can't get away with fearmongering in either direction... handle a gun once a week for a couple months and you'll basically end up thinking of it like a vehicle... useful but also fun, dangerous but well within the capacity of even stupid people to manage the danger.  Neither sacred nor profane, as it were.  They're just tools, like any power tool you need to not be stupid with 'em but they're not something intensely vital to every life either.
 
2013-09-25 04:36:52 AM
Jim_Callahan:

//Really, we need to make rifle team a standard sport in US high schools again just so that people can't get away with fearmongering in either direction... handle a gun once a week for a couple months and you'll basically end up thinking of it like a vehicle... useful but also fun, dangerous but well within the capacity of even stupid people to manage the danger.  Neither sacred nor profane, as it were.  They're just tools, like any power tool you need to not be stupid with 'em but they're not something intensely vital to every life either.

We need firearm training to reduce violence, but we have to protect kids by not giving them firearm training, cause training teaches them how to kill. Of course, needing to pass a test to drive doesn't prevent people from causing accidents.

Not that I disagree, I think marksmanship should be part of school, much like swimming was.
 
2013-09-25 05:35:30 AM

jaytkay: Why do gun owners need another gun?


Why does anyone with a PS/Xbox/PC need more than one game?

Why do you own anymore than a single pair of shoes?

Also, ROADTRIP!
 
2013-09-25 07:06:06 AM

hundreddollarman: Thinking about getting a shotgun. The question is a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500?


Hawk IAC 982
A 870 clone that's actually superior in manufacture, $100-$200 cheaper, and comes with ghost ring sights.
 
2013-09-25 08:06:00 AM

ChaosStar: hundreddollarman: Thinking about getting a shotgun. The question is a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500?

Hawk IAC 982
A 870 clone that's actually superior in manufacture, $100-$200 cheaper, and comes with ghost ring sights.


Pretty much any Chinese import is a gamble to some extent. The same goes for Turkish shotguns, including even CZ 720. QC is spotty at best, some of the guns are good, others get hopelessly broken really quick. A better choice would be to find an old used 870 Wingmaster (late 80s models are good) or a police surplus 870 Police Magnum. They are great guns, far superior new off-the-shelf 870 Express, and it shouldn't cost you much more than $300. They have superb fit, high quality durable finish, and no cheap plastic parts. They just don't make them like that anymore.
 
2013-09-25 08:33:57 AM
I would take a free shotgun, but alas, that program isn't going on in my area.  I guess I'll just keep up with the current program of looking through tall weeds, bushes and behind junk for a tossed away gun.  It isn't a good program, since you shouldn't try to register your free gun if you want to keep it.
 
2013-09-25 09:20:04 AM

hundreddollarman: Thinking about getting a shotgun. The question is a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500?


They're both good guns.  I would recommend that you either get the 870 Police Magnum (don't let the name fool you, any gun shop can order it) or the Mossberg 590A1, the reason being that both of those shotguns are designed for heavy use and have metal parts where the lower end 870 and 500 models have some plastic. They both have a larger magazine capacity without those stupid plugs (the Mossy comes with the longer tube, IIRC you have to put an extender on the Remington), and they have Parkerized finishes that aren't as pretty as blued finishes, but they last longer without having to re-blue every so often.  I [heart] my 590A1.  Oh, the 590A1 also comes with ghost-ring sights - dunno about the 870 PM since I don't own one.

Regardless of which gun you get, I'd also recommend a Knoxx Spec-Ops stock for it.  This is a sprung stock that reduces recoil to almost nothing, even with full power 3" shells.  I did a shotgun training course a few years back where we ran through about 600 rounds of a combination of buck, bird, and slugs, and my shoulder felt like I hadn't shot at all.
 
2013-09-25 10:03:37 AM
i42.tinypic.com

/wouldn't mind a free shotgun.
 
2013-09-25 11:45:45 AM
Just remember....

War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.

Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
 
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