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(WLSAM)   Founder of heroin support group arrested for dealing   (wlsam.com) divider line 74
    More: Ironic, undercover, DuPage County, Illinois, Will County, 95th Street, Naperville Sun  
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2743 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2013 at 4:37 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-24 05:59:18 PM

one-in-the-chamber: what I think is funny is how recovering addicts seem to ALWAYS become addiction councilors.
/even though they *maybe* clean their whole life still needs to revolve around their addictions
//they have no skills to offer society other then the fact they were junkies.


That hasn't been my experience at all. Very few of us actually become counsellors, the rest that I know are car salesmen, teachers, nurses, loan officers, truck drivers, cops, welders, pretty much every part of society.
 
2013-09-24 06:10:56 PM
He's not nearly as dangerous as the Money junkies that reside in the flop house known as Wall st.
 
2013-09-24 06:12:57 PM

albatros183: try meth don't give up !


Looks to me like Mr. Peter Rundo has a meth face. I'm surprised I had to get this far into the thread to find any mention of meth at all.
 
2013-09-24 06:13:19 PM

Jim_Callahan: nickdaisy: You always hear the "once an addict always an addict" axiom, but is that really true?

No, it's not true for any drug.  There's potential for relapse, but many or most people that quit are fine after the initial withdrawal, apart from pre-existing impulse control problems that got them in trouble in the first place.

AA and so on are quite literally a scam for profit, they have nothing to do with actual truth or science whatsoever.


And what color are the skies in your world because here on earth even the best anti-addiction program can only claim 10% success rate. 5-10% if the addict stays with SOME sort of support group almost nil with no support after detox. Support need not be a 12 step program but there does need to be some support.
 
2013-09-24 06:21:52 PM

ReverendJimBobHammer: Jim_Callahan: nickdaisy: You always hear the "once an addict always an addict" axiom, but is that really true?

No, it's not true for any drug.  There's potential for relapse, but many or most people that quit are fine after the initial withdrawal, apart from pre-existing impulse control problems that got them in trouble in the first place.

AA and so on are quite literally a scam for profit, they have nothing to do with actual truth or science whatsoever.

And what color are the skies in your world because here on earth even the best anti-addiction program can only claim 10% success rate. 5-10% if the addict stays with SOME sort of support group almost nil with no support after detox. Support need not be a 12 step program but there does need to be some support.


As a real-life alcoholic and AA member, I can attest that the only thing that got me sober was a sponsor and the fellowship of some pretty cool AA members.  It's not religious, it's spiritual.
I know there's a lot of jokes and misinformation, but some of us are pretty thankful that it's there.  And if you don't need it or want it, don't go.
 
2013-09-24 06:23:52 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: durbnpoisn: it's a behavioral issue as much as a physical addiction

At least as much. Maybe more. Alcoholism isn't about the alcohol at all, even though it's completely about the alcohol. It's tricky to explain.


Alcohol can very seriously become about the alcohol as much as the habit.  This is where the DT's come in to play.  If you drink every day for a while, when you stop you will have physical withdrawal symptoms like shaking and nausea.  And that's not mental.  The only way to stop the effects is to drink alcohol.  Or to detox completely.  If detox is not done properly once it reaches this point, your liver will fail, and it will probably kill you.

So don't discount alcohol as breezily as the TV commercials do.
 
2013-09-24 06:27:39 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: albatros183: try meth don't give up !

Looks to me like Mr. Peter Rundo has a meth face. I'm surprised I had to get this far into the thread to find any mention of meth at all.


I think the several Breaking Bad references before that post counts.
 
2013-09-24 06:30:06 PM

ongbok: What profit does AA get?


They run on about half donations from members, and half on government subsidies.  The fact that they're getting "donations" from people that are explicitly in a position of emotional vulnerability, the abuses have been pretty obvious and well-documented, there's a reason donations are hard-capped at 3k$/year now.  It's essentially a cult-scam, though obviously less outright malicious than, say, Scientology.  But the fact that that's where the bar is set gives you some idea of how bad it can get.

Kinda weird to have someone react with the "you don't even know" defense when they don't know the most basic things about the organization and its fellows.

ReverendJimBobHammer: And what color are the skies in your world because here on earth even the best anti-addiction program can only claim 10% success rate.


No, AA and its fellow religious organizations can only claim 10%.

For reference, individuals going cold turkey with no support have a 15% success rate.

Drug-based treatments and actual, real psychiatric care generally show somewhere between 30 and 40% success rate, depending on the study in question.

AA is literally worse than not seeking treatment at all in terms of relapse.

So, no, fark off, cult-boy, the world doesn't bend to your need to appease your cognitive dissonance.
 
2013-09-24 06:32:36 PM
Most herons don't need the support, as long as they have one leg to stand on.

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-09-24 06:48:27 PM

brap: You know we're dealing with a criminal mastermind when he tries to conceal his own heroin addiction by shooting up in his chin and forehead.


That's acne. There are no major veins in your forehead or chin.
 
2013-09-24 06:54:30 PM

durbnpoisn: Fuggin Bizzy: durbnpoisn: it's a behavioral issue as much as a physical addiction

At least as much. Maybe more. Alcoholism isn't about the alcohol at all, even though it's completely about the alcohol. It's tricky to explain.

Alcohol can very seriously become about the alcohol as much as the habit.  This is where the DT's come in to play.  If you drink every day for a while, when you stop you will have physical withdrawal symptoms like shaking and nausea.  And that's not mental.  The only way to stop the effects is to drink alcohol.  Or to detox completely.  If detox is not done properly once it reaches this point, your liver will fail, and it will probably kill you.

So don't discount alcohol as breezily as the TV commercials do.


I'm not dismissing anything. Like I said: it's completely about the alcohol.

/Only it's not. It's tricky.
 
2013-09-24 07:15:07 PM

Jim_Callahan: ongbok: What profit does AA get?

They run on about half donations from members, and half on government subsidies.  The fact that they're getting "donations" from people that are explicitly in a position of emotional vulnerability, the abuses have been pretty obvious and well-documented, there's a reason donations are hard-capped at 3k$/year now.  It's essentially a cult-scam, though obviously less outright malicious than, say, Scientology.  But the fact that that's where the bar is set gives you some idea of how bad it can get.

Kinda weird to have someone react with the "you don't even know" defense when they don't know the most basic things about the organization and its fellows.


Why can't they get donations from the people they are helping? Other rehab places charge people for their service, in fact they require payment. Does AA require donations? No they don't. And I am willing to say nobody is profiting of of the donations or government subsidies.
 
2013-09-24 07:18:08 PM
i have a child hood buddy who is now a cop, and the rumor is he attends AA meetings, pretending he has a problem, but in actuality, he's there to glean the seamy underbelly of society and make arrests.
 
2013-09-24 07:20:45 PM

symptomoftheuniverse: nickdaisy: Serious question. I understand that one can become addicted physically to heroin. Not doubting that. But let's say, hypothetically, there were no more heroin on the planet.  A plague came and wiped out all forms of opiates. After the initial withdrawal, would an addict no longer be an addict?  Do you see where I'm going with this philosophically?  You always hear the "once an addict always an addict" axiom, but is that really true?

I think most addicts would switch to some other intoxicant, most likely liquor.


I used to know a couple who'd been heroin addicts (and any other drug they could find). After they kicked the drugs, they switched to alcohol and became hardcore drunkies. Ironically, they'd still brag to anybody who'd listen about how they kicked heroin. While hitting them up for beer, wine, liquor, etc.

/They did have some wild stories about living the druggie life in NYC in the 70s, though.
 
2013-09-24 08:12:07 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Recreational drug use should be legal for all substances, because people like this would mostly quit bothering the rest of us and they would die faster.


But Obamacare.
 
2013-09-24 08:26:32 PM

Jim_Callahan: ongbok: What profit does AA get?

They run on about half donations from members, and half on government subsidies.  The fact that they're getting "donations" from people that are explicitly in a position of emotional vulnerability, the abuses have been pretty obvious and well-documented, there's a reason donations are hard-capped at 3k$/year now.  It's essentially a cult-scam, though obviously less outright malicious than, say, Scientology.  But the fact that that's where the bar is set gives you some idea of how bad it can get.

Kinda weird to have someone react with the "you don't even know" defense when they don't know the most basic things about the organization and its fellows.

ReverendJimBobHammer: And what color are the skies in your world because here on earth even the best anti-addiction program can only claim 10% success rate.

No, AA and its fellow religious organizations can only claim 10%.

For reference, individuals going cold turkey with no support have a 15% success rate.

Drug-based treatments and actual, real psychiatric care generally show somewhere between 30 and 40% success rate, depending on the study in question.


I have never heard of a 30 to 40% success rate. Citation please.
 
2013-09-24 08:32:59 PM
durbnpoisn:

Alcohol can very seriously become about the alcohol as much as the habit.  This is where the DT's come in to play.  If you drink every day for a while, when you stop you will have physical withdrawal symptoms like shaking and nausea.  And that's not mental.  The only way to stop the effects is to drink alcohol.  Or to detox completely.  If detox is not done properly once it reaches this point, your liver will fail, and it will probably kill you.


Any benzo will help you detox.  And it's not generally liver failure that's going to kill you when you're withdrawing, it's the seizures and the complications which arise from them.
 
2013-09-24 10:42:32 PM
Well it was heroin and it was supportive of addictions, so not too far off the mark.
 
2013-09-24 11:51:51 PM

punkhippie: vernonFL: Duh. Everybody knows the best place to hookup is rehab or a NA meeting.

This. You gotta be high on something to buy that 12-step crap.


belladonna usually helps.
 
2013-09-24 11:57:02 PM

BigGrnEggGriller: It's not religious, it's spiritual


That's like saying you're not gang affiliated, you're criminal.
 
2013-09-25 01:18:23 AM

BigGrnEggGriller: ReverendJimBobHammer: Jim_Callahan: nickdaisy: You always hear the "once an addict always an addict" axiom, but is that really true?

No, it's not true for any drug.  There's potential for relapse, but many or most people that quit are fine after the initial withdrawal, apart from pre-existing impulse control problems that got them in trouble in the first place.

AA and so on are quite literally a scam for profit, they have nothing to do with actual truth or science whatsoever.

And what color are the skies in your world because here on earth even the best anti-addiction program can only claim 10% success rate. 5-10% if the addict stays with SOME sort of support group almost nil with no support after detox. Support need not be a 12 step program but there does need to be some support.

As a real-life alcoholic and AA member, I can attest that the only thing that got me sober was a sponsor and the fellowship of some pretty cool AA members.  It's not religious, it's spiritual.
I know there's a lot of jokes and misinformation, but some of us are pretty thankful that it's there.  And if you don't need it or want it, don't go.


I sure hope that wasn't aimed at me, I didn't have anything negative to say about AA (member myself), just said it's not the only support group out there. Anyone that says 12 steps is the ONLY way to get sober/clean is a liar, it works for some, doesn't work for others. There are groups that have no spiritual component and they work for people who wouldn't be helped by 12 step programs. And this idiot claiming AA is WORSE than no support and some programs have 40% success rates really has no idea what the hell he is talking about.

/as for the spiritual not religious thing I get so sick of hearing about god in meetings and have repeatedly had to lecture people to not share about Jesus in a meeting, it's tougher being an atheist in an AA meeting than being an atheist in the bible belt.
 
2013-09-25 07:16:14 AM
Oh hell yes, AA is worse than no support.

By brainwashing you into think you're a helpless doofus who can't control yourself without yer higher power, AA sets you up to have really horrible, epic, recurring relapses. And these relapses become further proof of your helplessness and so on.

I was in AA for a while and I never saw a sadder bunch of burnt out shells. And the thing was, the longer they had been "sober" the worse off they were. The two people who tried to off themselves in that one little meeting were people with 20+ years each.

If you've got an addiction problem, stay the fark away from AA and any other 12-step scam. I'm still alive because I had enough sense to listen to my brain and my gut both screaming at me to get the hell out of there.
 
2013-09-25 08:54:39 AM

ongbok: Jim_Callahan: ongbok: What profit does AA get?

They run on about half donations from members, and half on government subsidies.  The fact that they're getting "donations" from people that are explicitly in a position of emotional vulnerability, the abuses have been pretty obvious and well-documented, there's a reason donations are hard-capped at 3k$/year now.  It's essentially a cult-scam, though obviously less outright malicious than, say, Scientology.  But the fact that that's where the bar is set gives you some idea of how bad it can get.

Kinda weird to have someone react with the "you don't even know" defense when they don't know the most basic things about the organization and its fellows.

Why can't they get donations from the people they are helping? Other rehab places charge people for their service, in fact they require payment. Does AA require donations? No they don't. And I am willing to say nobody is profiting of of the donations or government subsidies.


Hmm...maybe the young man in the picture was taking donations from the people he was helping.  He was giving them clean drugs in safe quantities while encouraging them to cut down.   Not buying it?  I dropped out of GED in law college.
 
2013-09-25 09:21:14 AM

TommyymmoT: brap: You know we're dealing with a criminal mastermind when he tries to conceal his own heroin addiction by shooting up in his chin and forehead.

That's acne. There are no major veins in your forehead or chin.


That was a joke.   I have more chins than a Chinese phone book.
 
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