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(Washington Post)   While defunding Obamacare is getting all the press, the House GOP bill to raise the debt ceiling is chock full o' crazy: means testing medicare, gutting EPA rules, repealing Dodd-Frank, building Keystone XL, and of course, Tax cuts   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 134
    More: Asinine, House GOP, GOP, obamacare, Medicare, EPA, tax cuts, EPA rules, tax reform  
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1471 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Sep 2013 at 1:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-24 01:57:51 PM  

quiotu: Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: The GOP is really gonna do it, aren't they? They'll destroy themselves in a vain attempt to defund obamacare and fail miserably. I...don't know what to say about that.

How will they destroy themselves. I work with really really intelligent guys who think medicare is going broke, social security won't be there in 15 years and the country is broke. I'd say the GOP won the messaging war.

And yet the GOP is losing, they lost two presidential elections, lost the Senate, and only hold onto the House through gerrymandering.

You say they won the messaging war, but the results say you're fulla shiat.


Fair enough. It probably doesn't help that I live in a more moderate to conservative state.
 
2013-09-24 01:58:11 PM  

Nadie_AZ: So winning to them is about reclaiming what they truly believed should be theirs: a permanent majority.


And the Dems are different.. how?
 
2013-09-24 01:59:42 PM  

James!: "Job rich Keystone XL pipeline"  Are they high?


so, they have been working on a "jobs" bill!
 
2013-09-24 02:00:12 PM  
Means testing medicare is crazy? Why do you want to give subsidies to millionaires subby?
 
2013-09-24 02:02:16 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Means-testing social security, on the other hand, actually has some merit---even the rich old coots are happy to collect more free money they don't need


Hey now, that's crazy talk.  I'm planning on the SS income for my beer fund.
 
2013-09-24 02:03:23 PM  

trotsky: Keystone's already dead. It's stupid to keep it up in the House. The companies have already decided to just find an alternative.


something no existing never stopped them before.  see: defunding ACORN after it disbanded.
 
2013-09-24 02:03:32 PM  

MyRandomName: Means testing medicare is crazy? Why do you want to give subsidies to millionaires subby?


Because medicare is a social insurance program, not a welfare program, and everyone pays in and it should be available to everyone? Means testing would make the process of getting medicare a lot more invasive for EVERYONE.

Also, in case it gets lost, this link is spot on:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/means-testing-medicare/?_ r =0">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/means-testing-medicar e/?_r =0
 
2013-09-24 02:03:56 PM  

doyner: Stile4aly: Medicare is not a form of welfare, it is a social insurance program. Making it only available for a qualified subgroup means it gets turned into a type of welfare, ultimately undermining the program.

Which has been their goal since the beginning.


Exactly. Social Security and Medicare are so successful and resistant to disruption because everyone is in the risk pool. I'd ideally prefer a more means-tested scheme in both cases, but the politics of doing that would almost certainly lead to their complete eradication, and that's not something I support.
 
2013-09-24 02:05:55 PM  

dragonfire77: How exactly is means-testing medicare 'crazy'?  I loathe the current iteration of the GOP...but this is an idea I could be on board with.


Essentially it does the exact same thing as raising taxes on the wealthy you are targeting to remove from the system, incentive wise, with far less revenues. You can accomplish the same thing by just adding a tax on that population to subsidize the program.
 
2013-09-24 02:07:04 PM  

Calmamity: Weaver95:  I...don't know what to say about that.

Fu*k 'em?


Exactly; it's like they don't think Obama's going to get the same bounce as Clinton got when he played this game in 1995.

Then again, we're talking about the same group of nimrods that were convinced Romney was going to win last year.
 
2013-09-24 02:07:15 PM  

MyRandomName: Means testing medicare is crazy? Why do you want to give subsidies to millionaires subby?


This is Republicans we're talking about.  It's most likely something like, "Oh, you didn't make a million dollars in your lifetime?  Sorry, no Medicare for you."
 
2013-09-24 02:07:42 PM  
These people are insane.
 
2013-09-24 02:08:58 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Isitoveryet: Felgraf: Marcus Aurelius: Keystone XL is a really good way to reduce our domestic oil supplies and lose out on energy tax revenue.

Plus potentially fark over our aquifers. Of course, I'm *SURE* a foreign company would try to make good any actual damage they caused, and not tell people to pound sand!

that probably coincides with the call for lax EPA regs.

So... you two do realize that Keystone's not dead and the current recommendation for the XL expansion is for approval with minor non-binding requests for delay from the EPA with acknowledgement that their filed concerns have been addressed, right?  And that the core of the pipeline's more or less in place, we're just discussing the timing of the "XL" expansion?

The GOP's entire shiat-fit over the matter has been over the project being  slightly behind schedule, and the main reason it's behind schedule is primarily... the GOP's shiat-fit, which they started because Obama's executive was  sticking to the schedule instead of approving it early.

Possibly the stupidest "issue" in politics today.


I am aware that it is not dead although i don't know what the current status of its development is.
 
2013-09-24 02:09:23 PM  

Doc Lee: MyRandomName: Means testing medicare is crazy? Why do you want to give subsidies to millionaires subby?

This is Republicans we're talking about.  It's most likely something like, "Oh, you didn't make a million dollars in your lifetime?  Sorry, no Medicare for you."


Don't kid yourself.  Republican means testing will find someway to favor the wealthy and screw the working class.
 
2013-09-24 02:09:36 PM  
My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!
 
2013-09-24 02:09:44 PM  
I realize we're about to go off this cliff, and I should probably hit the brakes, but before I do that, let's discuss English as the official language and a flag burning amendment.
 
2013-09-24 02:10:04 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Possibly the stupidest "issue" in politics today.


why so? i personally don't think we need to support the extension.
 
2013-09-24 02:10:39 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: So winning to them is about reclaiming what they truly believed should be theirs: a permanent majority.

And the Dems are different.. how?


I don't recall the Democrats pursuing these avenues while George W Bush was in office.

But yes, both sides want to win. No, both sides won't employ the same tactics.
 
2013-09-24 02:11:36 PM  

physt: Doc Lee: MyRandomName: Means testing medicare is crazy? Why do you want to give subsidies to millionaires subby?

This is Republicans we're talking about.  It's most likely something like, "Oh, you didn't make a million dollars in your lifetime?  Sorry, no Medicare for you."

Don't kid yourself.  Republican means testing will find someway to favor the wealthy and screw the working class.


That's exactly what I said...  Reading...it's fundamental.  Or so I've been told.
 
2013-09-24 02:13:53 PM  
The GOP wants to initiate means-testing of Medicare?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-24 02:14:10 PM  

error 303: My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!


Shutting down the government and ending the government's ability to borrow money would have very different effects. A government shutdown we can weather relatively easily. I'll let Adam Davidson summarize the debt ceiling issue:

1. No wealthy country has ever voluntarily defaulted on its debt.
2. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the fallout won't be apocalyptic.
3. It'll be much worse.
 
2013-09-24 02:14:19 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Keystone XL is a really good way to reduce our domestic oil supplies and lose out on energy tax revenue.


How exactly is this going to decrease our domestic supplies when it is coming from Canada?
 
2013-09-24 02:17:11 PM  

Serious Black: error 303: My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!

Shutting down the government and ending the government's ability to borrow money would have very different effects. A government shutdown we can weather relatively easily. I'll let Adam Davidson summarize the debt ceiling issue:

1. No wealthy country has ever voluntarily defaulted on its debt.
2. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the fallout won't be apocalyptic.
3. It'll be much worse.


Right, I don't disagree, just noting that defunding the ACA is part of the end of the FY budget battle, while the debt ceiling battle comes a few weeks after. Fun stuff, for sure.
 
2013-09-24 02:17:48 PM  

imontheinternet: I realize we're about to go off this cliff, and I should probably hit the brakes, but before I do that, let's discuss English as the official language and a flag burning amendment.


I concur, flag burnings should only be conducted in English.
 
2013-09-24 02:20:04 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I don't recall the Democrats pursuing these avenues while George W Bush was in office.


Really? You should have been paying closer attention in the last part of Bush's presidency when the Dems were able to be the obstructionists. Repubs today are using many of the plays that Pelosi and crew mastered under GW.
 
2013-09-24 02:22:42 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: I don't recall the Democrats pursuing these avenues while George W Bush was in office.

Really? You should have been paying closer attention in the last part of Bush's presidency when the Dems were able to be the obstructionists. Repubs today are using many of the plays that Pelosi and crew mastered under GW.


Not really, but keep telling yourself that.
 
2013-09-24 02:22:45 PM  
Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?
 
2013-09-24 02:23:08 PM  

error 303: Serious Black: error 303: My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!

Shutting down the government and ending the government's ability to borrow money would have very different effects. A government shutdown we can weather relatively easily. I'll let Adam Davidson summarize the debt ceiling issue:

1. No wealthy country has ever voluntarily defaulted on its debt.
2. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the fallout won't be apocalyptic.
3. It'll be much worse.

Right, I don't disagree, just noting that defunding the ACA is part of the end of the FY budget battle, while the debt ceiling battle comes a few weeks after. Fun stuff, for sure.


If the debt ceiling isn't raised we will just print/credit money to erase all or part of the debt so we can keep spending. It would have bad repercussions on the economy, particularly with potential inflation, but it wouldn't destroy everything everywhere.

A government cannot default on it's own currency if that currency is what is used to establish its economic value.
 
2013-09-24 02:24:50 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?


1man1jar?
 
2013-09-24 02:28:48 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: I don't recall the Democrats pursuing these avenues while George W Bush was in office.

Really? You should have been paying closer attention in the last part of Bush's presidency when the Dems were able to be the obstructionists. Repubs today are using many of the plays that Pelosi and crew mastered under GW.


I don't recall them shutting down, or threatening to shut down the Government simply because they didn't like any law that was passed.

I do have a question though: Would you have supported impeachment of Bush Jr if he'd lied to Congress and the American public about an affair with an intern?
 
2013-09-24 02:31:21 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?


BME Pain Olympics.
 
2013-09-24 02:33:17 PM  

error 303: Serious Black: error 303: My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!

Shutting down the government and ending the government's ability to borrow money would have very different effects. A government shutdown we can weather relatively easily. I'll let Adam Davidson summarize the debt ceiling issue:

1. No wealthy country has ever voluntarily defaulted on its debt.
2. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the fallout won't be apocalyptic.
3. It'll be much worse.

Right, I don't disagree, just noting that defunding the ACA is part of the end of the FY budget battle, while the debt ceiling battle comes a few weeks after. Fun stuff, for sure.


<sarcasm> Oh, absolutely! </sarcasm> I'm not looking forward to it at all. I honestly hope the government DOES shut down and that it feeds the Tea Party's hysteria enough to let Congress lift the debt ceiling without risking the complete destruction of the global economy.
 
2013-09-24 02:34:08 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I do have a question though: Would you have supported impeachment of Bush Jr if he'd lied to Congress and the American public about an affair with an intern?


Can tell me why you ask and what you think this has to do with that? I'm curious what assumptions you have made and which conclusions you have jumped to.
 
2013-09-24 02:34:44 PM  

JollyMagistrate: error 303: Serious Black: error 303: My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!

Shutting down the government and ending the government's ability to borrow money would have very different effects. A government shutdown we can weather relatively easily. I'll let Adam Davidson summarize the debt ceiling issue:

1. No wealthy country has ever voluntarily defaulted on its debt.
2. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the fallout won't be apocalyptic.
3. It'll be much worse.

Right, I don't disagree, just noting that defunding the ACA is part of the end of the FY budget battle, while the debt ceiling battle comes a few weeks after. Fun stuff, for sure.

If the debt ceiling isn't raised we will just print/credit money to erase all or part of the debt so we can keep spending. It would have bad repercussions on the economy, particularly with potential inflation, but it wouldn't destroy everything everywhere.

A government cannot default on it's own currency if that currency is what is used to establish its economic value.


So instead of failing to satisfy financial obligations and destroying our credit rating plus our status as holding the reserve currency, we'll just create hyperinflation and destroy our credit rating plus our status as holding the reserve currency. I think there's a problem with your plan.
 
2013-09-24 02:38:48 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?


BojanglesPaladin ?
 
2013-09-24 02:40:15 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: I do have a question though: Would you have supported impeachment of Bush Jr if he'd lied to Congress and the American public about an affair with an intern?

Can tell me why you ask and what you think this has to do with that? I'm curious what assumptions you have made and which conclusions you have jumped to.


I mean, Bush Jr lied to the American people and Congress about going to war in Iraq and nobody in Congress considered impeachment.

Would Obama get that kind of pass?

You want to play 'both sides are bad' game, and I'm asking questions I know the answer to. Sorta fun. Or not. I might be bored as I'm sure I'll be broadsided with some inane detail.
 
2013-09-24 02:40:42 PM  

Ned Stark: that bosnian sniper: Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?

1man1jar?


2juggalos1bedpan
 
2013-09-24 02:41:19 PM  
Serious Black:
<sarcasm> Oh, absolutely! </sarcasm> I'm not looking forward to it at all. I honestly hope the government DOES shut down and that it feeds the Tea Party's hysteria enough to let Congress lift the debt ceiling without risking the complete destruction of the global economy.

Yeah, as an Army employee who has already been subjected to furlough days and pay reduction this year, the prospect of doing it all over again fills me with whatever the opposite of glee is. Lurching along with Continuing Resolutions and brinksmanship these past few yeras has been awful, so I'm also at the point of break it to fix it myself if it means we can get a resonable GOP back. But having that much uncertainty tied up not just in my paycheck but in my ability to actually get work done has been really, frustratingly off-putting.
 
2013-09-24 02:41:42 PM  

Ned Stark: that bosnian sniper: Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?

1man1jar?


Yeah, that'll do 'er.
 
2013-09-24 02:42:00 PM  

I Havent Killed Anybody Since 1984: that bosnian sniper: Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?

BME Pain Olympics.


For people who still haven't developed a calloused optic nerve from excessive internet exposure, tubgirl involves a girl, a tub, and her own explosive diarrhea. The pain olympics involve male genital mutilation.

You should probably just go ahead and not google either of those things, ever.
 
2013-09-24 02:42:45 PM  

dr_blasto: Ned Stark: that bosnian sniper: Remember yesterday when I said tubgirl was an apt metaphor for Republican political strategy?  What's one step past tubgirl?

1man1jar?


2juggalos1bedpan


*faints from revulsion*
 
2013-09-24 02:43:53 PM  

Serious Black: JollyMagistrate: error 303: Serious Black: error 303: My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!

Shutting down the government and ending the government's ability to borrow money would have very different effects. A government shutdown we can weather relatively easily. I'll let Adam Davidson summarize the debt ceiling issue:

1. No wealthy country has ever voluntarily defaulted on its debt.
2. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the fallout won't be apocalyptic.
3. It'll be much worse.

Right, I don't disagree, just noting that defunding the ACA is part of the end of the FY budget battle, while the debt ceiling battle comes a few weeks after. Fun stuff, for sure.

If the debt ceiling isn't raised we will just print/credit money to erase all or part of the debt so we can keep spending. It would have bad repercussions on the economy, particularly with potential inflation, but it wouldn't destroy everything everywhere.

A government cannot default on it's own currency if that currency is what is used to establish its economic value.

So instead of failing to satisfy financial obligations and destroying our credit rating plus our status as holding the reserve currency, we'll just create hyperinflation and destroy our credit rating plus our status as holding the reserve currency. I think there's a problem with your plan.


I'm not saying it's a good scenario. It is, however, a better one than defaulting on our credit (which accomplishes the same thing plus massive unemployment and shutdown of credit markets).

Ideally we would do away with a debt ceiling entirely, as it is an economically silly idea.
 
2013-09-24 02:44:30 PM  

error 303: Yeah, as an Army employee who has already been subjected to furlough days and pay reduction this year...


I have a close relative who does TRICARE accounts management -- claims, PCM changes, enrollment and plan changes. Trust me, come October 1st you'll wish for a damned shutdown, you guys are getting  screwed.
 
2013-09-24 02:44:49 PM  

Nadie_AZ: BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: I do have a question though: Would you have supported impeachment of Bush Jr if he'd lied to Congress and the American public about an affair with an intern?

Can tell me why you ask and what you think this has to do with that? I'm curious what assumptions you have made and which conclusions you have jumped to.

I mean, Bush Jr lied to the American people and Congress about going to war in Iraq and nobody in Congress considered impeachment.

Would Obama get that kind of pass?

You want to play 'both sides are bad' game, and I'm asking questions I know the answer to. Sorta fun. Or not. I might be bored as I'm sure I'll be broadsided with some inane detail.


I would give Obama substantially better odds of getting a pass for lying America into a war than getting a pass for lying about a blowjob.
 
2013-09-24 02:46:44 PM  

JollyMagistrate: Serious Black: JollyMagistrate: error 303: Serious Black: error 303: My understanding was defunding the ACA was part of the submitted House budget to prevent the government from shutting down due to lack of funding beginning in FY14 (i.e. October 1st), while the debt ceiling debate is a little further down the road. So we've got two chances for a government shutdown before the end of the Calendar year. Which is awesome. Yay obstruction!

Shutting down the government and ending the government's ability to borrow money would have very different effects. A government shutdown we can weather relatively easily. I'll let Adam Davidson summarize the debt ceiling issue:

1. No wealthy country has ever voluntarily defaulted on its debt.
2. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, the fallout won't be apocalyptic.
3. It'll be much worse.

Right, I don't disagree, just noting that defunding the ACA is part of the end of the FY budget battle, while the debt ceiling battle comes a few weeks after. Fun stuff, for sure.

If the debt ceiling isn't raised we will just print/credit money to erase all or part of the debt so we can keep spending. It would have bad repercussions on the economy, particularly with potential inflation, but it wouldn't destroy everything everywhere.

A government cannot default on it's own currency if that currency is what is used to establish its economic value.

So instead of failing to satisfy financial obligations and destroying our credit rating plus our status as holding the reserve currency, we'll just create hyperinflation and destroy our credit rating plus our status as holding the reserve currency. I think there's a problem with your plan.

I'm not saying it's a good scenario. It is, however, a better one than defaulting on our credit (which accomplishes the same thing plus massive unemployment and shutdown of credit markets).

Ideally we would do away with a debt ceiling entirely, as it is an economically silly idea.


No shiat. If Congress is sick and tired of borrowing money and creating a mountain of debt, they should stop passing bills that create financial obligations we can only satisfy by borrowing money and creating a mountain of debt. Nobody in Congress has done that. Even the wildly delusional RSC budget from the House requires us to borrow a few trillion dollars over the next ten years to satisfy all its obligations!
 
2013-09-24 02:47:48 PM  
Got crushed in an election, only kept the house because of no-lose gerrymandered districts, perceives that as a mandate to run the country and if you don't agree with them they will burn this place to the ground.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the GOP!!!
 
2013-09-24 02:48:32 PM  

Magruda: Marcus Aurelius: Keystone XL is a really good way to reduce our domestic oil supplies and lose out on energy tax revenue.

How exactly is this going to decrease our domestic supplies when it is coming from Canada?


The oil companies currently transfer oil from Canada to Missouri and Illinois for processing, via the Keystone pipeline. Much of that processed oil is sold here in the United States.

The oil companies really would like to transfer oil from Canada to Texas, via the Keystone XL pipeline, where it could be processed and put on boats, so it could be sold to overseas markets.

Less Canadian oil here = more domestic supplies used here.
 
2013-09-24 02:49:16 PM  
Hopefully when this hits the Senate it will be sent back with every single GOP request stripped out.

It's time to teach the GOP that they get nothing.
 
2013-09-24 02:52:06 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Less Canadian oil here = more domestic supplies used here.


Not sure how i feel about that when i don't think anybody should be using that oil. It has the overall worst impact on the environment of any type of crude.
 
2013-09-24 02:53:56 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Nadie_AZ: So winning to them is about reclaiming what they truly believed should be theirs: a permanent majority.

And the Dems are different.. how?


Vote Green Party!
 
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