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(CNN)   Chunky writer pens angry column over school sending "your kid's fat" letters home to parents. Fark: Because the school is using BMI as its measure, which as every Farker knows fails to account for their 6'8 frames of solid muscle   (cnn.com) divider line 179
    More: Amusing, language education, exact science, morally superior, Washington Post Writers Group, BMI, elementary schools, dyslexia, syndicated columnist  
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5739 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2013 at 1:11 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-24 04:25:58 PM

rzrwiresunrise: I read that as our kids' self-image ought to bee more important than their actual health.


In that case, the school need not do anything. The other kids will get the point across just fine.
 
2013-09-24 04:34:24 PM

TV's Vinnie: The guy is certainly a Chunk, but he's got a point. The whole BMI index racket pretty much is a distorted standard of "perfection".  It's like the way Barbie dolls make some girls feel inadequate because their body shapes don't conform to the freakishly unhealthy proportions of Barbie & Ken.


Not everyone can be a Greek marble statue with ZERO % body fat, and I sure hope not! How did they ever reproduce with tiny little peckers like that?


If you think the bolded portion is what is required to maintain a non-obese BMI, I bet you can't see your genitals if you look down.
 
2013-09-24 04:46:51 PM
The point of BMI isn't that its a perfect measure of health.  The point is that there is a strong negative correlation between BMI and life expentancy but its inputs can be measured at home, so you can easily and accurately track it without seeing a specialist every week.  It's a 'good enough' metric for 95% of people out there.  If you really get into fitness after that, then you should be investing in a professional body fat % calculation every 3-4 months.
 And yes, my BMI is above 25.
 
2013-09-24 04:56:11 PM

LavenderWolf: TV's Vinnie: The guy is certainly a Chunk, but he's got a point. The whole BMI index racket pretty much is a distorted standard of "perfection".  It's like the way Barbie dolls make some girls feel inadequate because their body shapes don't conform to the freakishly unhealthy proportions of Barbie & Ken.


Not everyone can be a Greek marble statue with ZERO % body fat, and I sure hope not! How did they ever reproduce with tiny little peckers like that?

If you think the bolded portion is what is required to maintain a non-obese BMI, I bet you can't see your genitals if you look down.


This. I love how fat people act like taking a basic amount of responsibility for your weight = "OMG SOCIETY REQUIRES MEN TO BE GREEK GODS AND WOMEN TO BE DANGEROUS BARBIES!!!1"

Put it this way. As a male standing six foot, my ideal weight is anywhere from 140 to 184 pounds (I mean, a 44 pound spread? Such a tiny, unrealistic window to fall into, amirite?!) I assure you that when I shed six pounds from my current weight, I will not look like a shredded greek god. I'll look like a normal human being with a somewhat flatter tummy.

You. Are. Fat. Accept it. Change it. Your life doesn't have to be this way.
 
2013-09-24 05:04:59 PM

raptormh: LavenderWolf: TV's Vinnie: The guy is certainly a Chunk, but he's got a point. The whole BMI index racket pretty much is a distorted standard of "perfection".  It's like the way Barbie dolls make some girls feel inadequate because their body shapes don't conform to the freakishly unhealthy proportions of Barbie & Ken.


Not everyone can be a Greek marble statue with ZERO % body fat, and I sure hope not! How did they ever reproduce with tiny little peckers like that?

If you think the bolded portion is what is required to maintain a non-obese BMI, I bet you can't see your genitals if you look down.

This. I love how fat people act like taking a basic amount of responsibility for your weight = "OMG SOCIETY REQUIRES MEN TO BE GREEK GODS AND WOMEN TO BE DANGEROUS BARBIES!!!1"

Put it this way. As a male standing six foot, my ideal weight is anywhere from 140 to 184 pounds (I mean, a 44 pound spread? Such a tiny, unrealistic window to fall into, amirite?!) I assure you that when I shed six pounds from my current weight, I will not look like a shredded greek god. I'll look like a normal human being with a somewhat flatter tummy.

You. Are. Fat. Accept it. Change it. Your life doesn't have to be this way.


Not to mention how blindingly obvious it is to someone whose BMI doesn't tell the whole story; if you've got more muscle than bone + fat + organs, you know already that your BMI is meaningless. For the rest of us, it works just fine.

I'm 5'10" and 160ish pounds, and it takes zero effort to maintain because I reduced my caloric intake from when I was 260lbs (of muscle, in my reservist training). I got used to 10,000+ calories per day. Then when I didn't need that many... I got used to fewer. It's not even hard; your body does NOT want to overeat.
 
2013-09-24 05:15:00 PM
My husband is one of those who is considered obese through BMI. He is very large boned (for realsies) and really buff. He is in the army so they just do the tape test instead, which he passes every time. He is 6'3 and weighs 230. So BMI isnt always perfectly acurate. A friend of mine was recently told (by the Dr.) that her daughter was too fat, but no one sees how the heck they could have said that about this little girl. Conversely, I have a friend with a 2 year old whose child is seriously effing obese and I dont know why the heck they ALWAYS make him ride in a stroller and give him anything but water and veggies. It is really horrible to the point she even finally has realized they have got to make a change (yes both parents are fat although one was slim till his thyroid was removed due to tumors). The people I nannied for were extremely active and they couldn't figure out why they were all obese even though they ate donughts/pizza/cupcakes/mcdonalds Every single day. All the biking in the world cant combat a diet as bad as that. A girl I know from spin class is a size 2and works out religiosly. And she has a 3 year old she gives crap to eat and is probably double the weight she should be.

Anyway, I guess my .02$ would come down to the fact that even if the occasional kid gets a letter home who isnt really thaaaaat fat, its better than letting delusional parents sink their kids further into the obesity epidemic. At least they have been told to cut it out (even though they assuredly won't).

/CSS
 
2013-09-24 05:20:28 PM

LavenderWolf: raptormh: LavenderWolf: TV's Vinnie: The guy is certainly a Chunk, but he's got a point. The whole BMI index racket pretty much is a distorted standard of "perfection".  It's like the way Barbie dolls make some girls feel inadequate because their body shapes don't conform to the freakishly unhealthy proportions of Barbie & Ken.


Not everyone can be a Greek marble statue with ZERO % body fat, and I sure hope not! How did they ever reproduce with tiny little peckers like that?

If you think the bolded portion is what is required to maintain a non-obese BMI, I bet you can't see your genitals if you look down.

This. I love how fat people act like taking a basic amount of responsibility for your weight = "OMG SOCIETY REQUIRES MEN TO BE GREEK GODS AND WOMEN TO BE DANGEROUS BARBIES!!!1"

Put it this way. As a male standing six foot, my ideal weight is anywhere from 140 to 184 pounds (I mean, a 44 pound spread? Such a tiny, unrealistic window to fall into, amirite?!) I assure you that when I shed six pounds from my current weight, I will not look like a shredded greek god. I'll look like a normal human being with a somewhat flatter tummy.

You. Are. Fat. Accept it. Change it. Your life doesn't have to be this way.

Not to mention how blindingly obvious it is to someone whose BMI doesn't tell the whole story; if you've got more muscle than bone + fat + organs, you know already that your BMI is meaningless. For the rest of us, it works just fine.



It would be hilarious if obesity didn't kill people.

3.bp.blogspot.com

"This guy has dedicated his entire life to converting his body into pure muscle! BMI is no longer an accurate measurement for him!"

www.healthyhippie.net

"... Therefore I am in exactly as good a shape as a world class athlete! STOP FATSHAMING ME shiatLORD!!"
 
2013-09-24 05:37:56 PM
Your kid also has a stupid haircut.
 
2013-09-24 06:28:50 PM
every Farker knows fails to account for their 6'8 frames of solid muscle

Bwahahaha. I love these threads.

/I've lost about 15 pounds in the last couple of years
//Nope, I'm middle-aged, not dieting, and I actually need to put some weight back on.
///Take that
////go for FOUR slashies
 
2013-09-24 07:16:25 PM
image.blingee.com
 
2013-09-24 08:05:23 PM
Not that anyone cares, but I have dropped a fair amount of weight over the past 4 years. I went halfway toward my goal just by walking a couple of miles every weekday and 3-4 miles per day on weekends, and not dieting at all. For those keeping track at home, that reduced my waist size by 6 inches.

Sadly, once I dropped that, I was stuck there for two years. Now that I've actually started keeping track of what I eat via "MyFitnessPal" (and really, any halfway decent calorie-counter would work), I've dropped about a pound a week for half a year. Another half year, and I should be at my ideal weight (and I mean ideal-ideal, not lumpy-ideal -- smack dab in the center of the ideal weight zone), just in time for my annual physical.

And it's the freaking hardest thing I've done. Exercise is EASY for me compared to cutting back on eating. I can walk at a brisk pace up and down hills for three hours, but not having fresh bread or delicious pie or whatever makes me the exact opposite of jolly.

So I may make fun here on Fark about non-Farkers I don't know, but it's not because I think it's easy to get back down to a good weight, it's because the lack of food makes me a grouch. Well, okay, not so much that, but it still is freaking difficult to lose weight by dieting. I have a lot of sympathy for people who have an even harder time of it than I do, though.

/I'm lucky that I have a close friend who is working with me to get into shape. That motivates me a lot.
 
2013-09-24 08:08:52 PM

Magorn: BMI of 31.5 and therefore "morbidly obese"


You're telling us you're built like that? Because it sounds like you're saying you're really a prize fighter and not a fatty fat fat posting on the Internet.
 
2013-09-24 08:10:46 PM

Snarfangel: Not that anyone cares, but I have dropped a fair amount of weight over the past 4 years. I went halfway toward my goal just by walking a couple of miles every weekday and 3-4 miles per day on weekends, and not dieting at all. For those keeping track at home, that reduced my waist size by 6 inches.

Sadly, once I dropped that, I was stuck there for two years. Now that I've actually started keeping track of what I eat via "MyFitnessPal" (and really, any halfway decent calorie-counter would work), I've dropped about a pound a week for half a year. Another half year, and I should be at my ideal weight (and I mean ideal-ideal, not lumpy-ideal -- smack dab in the center of the ideal weight zone), just in time for my annual physical.

And it's the freaking hardest thing I've done. Exercise is EASY for me compared to cutting back on eating. I can walk at a brisk pace up and down hills for three hours, but not having fresh bread or delicious pie or whatever makes me the exact opposite of jolly.

So I may make fun here on Fark about non-Farkers I don't know, but it's not because I think it's easy to get back down to a good weight, it's because the lack of food makes me a grouch. Well, okay, not so much that, but it still is freaking difficult to lose weight by dieting. I have a lot of sympathy for people who have an even harder time of it than I do, though.

/I'm lucky that I have a close friend who is working with me to get into shape. That motivates me a lot.


I used to be this way... But after a couple years of barely ever eating anything sweet other than the fruits, now when I eat a piece of cake or ice cream I feel like complete crap for the rest of the evening. So something that gave me nothing but bliss for years now brings me misery since I've been without. I'm sure I could get used to it again, but why?
 
2013-09-24 08:12:05 PM
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but BMI is bullshiat. I'm "obese" compared to the charts, but not when you measure my body fat.

Stupid chart is stupid.
 
2013-09-24 08:26:05 PM
You're not allowed to be fat. We say so.

/ nor Republican
 
2013-09-24 11:18:17 PM
Wow, Boobies uses the term Strawman.  I quit reading.  What very proud junior high school debate team member was next to post about the Dunning-Kruger effect?
 
2013-09-25 01:04:37 AM
I'm amused by the people trying to claim that BMI is only inaccurate for extreme athletes. There's a massive subset of people it has absolutely no worth for who are as far from an athlete as possible. For me personally, when my BMI was in the "normal" to slightly overweight range, I was dangerously underweight by my doctor's measures. I'm not and never have been a serious athlete in any way, but was a borderline fatty by BMI's measure and clearly needed to eat a sandwich if you actually looked at me. These days I've put on a lot of weight, and really should lose 20-30 lbs, but if you looked at my BMI you'd be questioning how I manage to make it from my car to my desk without a motorized scooter. Yet somehow, people still feel comfortable telling me how much they think weight [random fat person] should lose.

BMI is an absolutely worthless measure. As at least one other person mentioned, it's an estimate from so many generations ago which has never been updated with any of the scientific or medical advancements we've made since the abolition of slavery. I guess there is still at least one use for it. The second you see someone reference it in any meaningful way to make a point or argument, you know it's safe to completely ignore any and everything that person has to say.
 
2013-09-25 01:09:26 AM

CleanAndPure: Magorn. 26 is not "borderline obese". It is a little overweight.

You can fool yourself that you're not fat and that bmi means nothing but for 99% of people over 25 bmi ARE fat.

Bmi is not perfect... but its good enough for most people.

Get over it... you are fat. Stop fighting labels.

If someone is over 25bmi that should be a red flag that they need to eat less and exercise more.


... those very few who break the trend will be very obvious that its muscle.


Deal with it. You're fat. Fix the problem.


Funny. I run 4.8 miles every day. I have a BMI of 25.4. I'm pretty sure I am not fat. My body fat percentage is 19%.
 
2013-09-25 01:43:19 AM

vice_magnet: CleanAndPure: Magorn. 26 is not "borderline obese". It is a little overweight.

You can fool yourself that you're not fat and that bmi means nothing but for 99% of people over 25 bmi ARE fat.

Bmi is not perfect... but its good enough for most people.

Get over it... you are fat. Stop fighting labels.

If someone is over 25bmi that should be a red flag that they need to eat less and exercise more.


... those very few who break the trend will be very obvious that its muscle.


Deal with it. You're fat. Fix the problem.

Funny. I run 4.8 miles every day. I have a BMI of 25.4. I'm pretty sure I am not fat. My body fat percentage is 19%.


As a male? My knees hurt just thinking about that. Are you short? Heck, that distance every day would make my knees hurt even if you were female.

Also, long distance anything needs more body fat that short burst anything. In your case, comparing distance runners to sprinters.
 
2013-09-25 02:25:49 AM
Do you even lift?
i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-09-25 05:29:42 AM
Aigoo

You're right that a lot comes down to parenting. But there's a bit of a flip side here, too. I gamed with my dad as a kid... but there were limits on how much I played per day.

Part of the problem is, this ain't the world we grew up in: you can't send the kids out to go play today. Some asshole will kidnap them, murder them, give them something you damn sure don't want them getting their hands on,,, You have to give them freedom, but you also have to be aware of where they are and what they're doing, and that takes parenting. You can't be farking lazy like our parents could be if they wanted. But when mom and dad gotta work two jobs each just to make ends meet, what the fark else they gonna do? We wanna blame society but we forget that we ARE society. Wanna fault the parents when we ARE the parents. You want all this to change? Then we have to be the ones to change it by changing ourselves. Stop doing what's easy and start doing what's necessary and right. Otherwise, we need to stop biatching.


Agreed 100%. Been there. Done that. Now just preachin' to the masses, who seem to ignore everything.

BTW. I doubt the amount of pedophilia increasing so dramatically over the last 40 years, but there's no records to compare it to. I don't doubt certain types of violence increasing among kids because I saw it beginning. In the 70's, fights went from one on one and with fists, to a group stomp, including kicking the kid when down and by the 90's, stomping on the head became vogue and/or including weapons.

The initiators of this charming practice were a minority, where it had become common on ghetto streets.

I also have warned people of over crowding and the social, ecological and psychiatric problems which come with such a practice and watched my own city double in size as the political leaders, all businessmen, strove to bring in more cash. Past a certain density and people start turning on each other. When people can't find safe areas to get some privacy and peace, crime and insanity rates rise.

It's kind of like yelling into the wind. Everyone complains but no one will actively work to stop the source of the problems.
 
2013-09-25 06:48:22 AM
People get upset about being told themselves, their kids and in some cases pets are fat because ignoring the problem is easier than making the effort to make the problem go away and stay away.  I was fat (up to 250 pounds), knew it, admitted it, did not get all uppity when people made references to my weight, I made the effort to make it go away and stay away (high 150's).
 
2013-09-25 09:54:15 AM

Arthen: draypresct: Arthen: Worrying whether or not kids are attractive is not something I want teachers doing. BMI is based on aesthetics, not health.

Nope. BMI independently predicts the risk of mortality in the general population. Unless you believe that's because of aesthetics instead of health...

Nope, being overweight correlates to a lower mortality than normal weight. You have to go to morbidly obese to have a higher mortality than either.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffreykabat/2013/01/06/how-useful-is-bo d y-mass-index-in-predicting-long-term-health/


The fact that the authors did not find an increase between two adjacent categories does not change the fact that BMI predicts mortality in the general population*. It's vaguely U-shaped, with higher risk among the cachectic and the obese. This finding has been replicated in many, many studies. There are arguments about the precise shape of the curve, but no reasonable person denies it's there.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2288/11/175/figure/F1

The authors in your link also used meta-analysis, which tends to be noisy, but that's a separate rant**.

Here's an analogy: Age predicts mortality. You find a study where 27 year-olds live longer than 23 year-olds, however older people (and the very young infants) had significantly increased mortality. Would you, using this, argue that age does not predict mortality?


/*There are some populations of very sick people where the relationship goes the other way. This is also well documented. You would know if you're in one of these populations.

**Meta-analysis in medical research is a way to publish papers when you don't have the funding to gather the data that actually address your research question. You take results based on data gathered in different ways from different sources, average them, weight according to sample size and according to how you feel that day about the way the individual studies were conducted, and get a result.
 
2013-09-25 10:06:17 AM
kiwichan: "BMI is an absolutely worthless measure" (because of personal anecdote).

Read some studies on BMI v. mortality. Look at the graphs of the data for yourself. I provided a link to a few in my prior post, but feel free to dig some up of your own.

Yes, there are outliers. That doesn't make BMI worthless. If you can find a perfect indicator of health, please share with the rest of the class.

Until we have that perfect measure, using BMI as a screener is valuable. It's cheap, safe, objective, and predictive.

/Age, blood pressure, cholesterol, albumin, creatinine, ejection fraction . . . pretty much every measure I can think of has outliers.
 
2013-09-25 10:55:14 AM
Dieted and exercised off and on for over a year.  I lost maybe 3 pounds.  Truns out I have PCOS, which causes crazy hormonal imbalances.  My doctor-lady put me on Metformin (a diabeetus drug) to deal with PCOS-related infertility and I've lost 15 pounds without diet or exercise in eight weeks.  I am not diabetic and wasn't hugely obese either (female, 30, five-five, 157 pounds to begin with, now around 142).

I'm hoping the doctor will keep giving me the meds.  They work better than diet and exercise for me!
 
2013-09-25 12:00:49 PM

OSUJillyBean: Dieted and exercised off and on for over a year.  I lost maybe 3 pounds.  Truns out I have PCOS, which causes crazy hormonal imbalances.  My doctor-lady put me on Metformin (a diabeetus drug) to deal with PCOS-related infertility and I've lost 15 pounds without diet or exercise in eight weeks.  I am not diabetic and wasn't hugely obese either (female, 30, five-five, 157 pounds to begin with, now around 142).

I'm hoping the doctor will keep giving me the meds.  They work better than diet and exercise for me!


a lo-carb regimine will work like gangbusters for you AND treat you PCOD.  Just be sure not to use whey or soy protien to supplement your protien intake as it can be counter productive.   PCOD is a biatch and it alone gives lie to the whole "you are fat because you eat too much" line of BS

Personally HATED metformin for treating my beetus  made me sick as a dog, but then the DR put me on a max dose of 2000 mfg with no ramping up with is apparently a big no-no
 
2013-09-25 12:09:12 PM
The reality is that a lot of kids are fat.  This letter says that they used BMI calculations as a flag for them to alert parents who may be in denial, that maybe they want to have snowflake checked out by a pro, like the family doctor.

There are not many single health related indicators, a lot of them are simply flags that call for something to be checked out.  If you are dizzy, you might have taken a blow to the head, have an inner ear problem or brain cancer or an anurysm...it's one symptom not the diagnosis.

Cause most school kids are not olympic grade athletes, physically, so I discount that end of the bell-curve.
 
2013-09-25 01:07:50 PM

Magorn: OSUJillyBean: Dieted and exercised off and on for over a year.  I lost maybe 3 pounds.  Truns out I have PCOS, which causes crazy hormonal imbalances.  My doctor-lady put me on Metformin (a diabeetus drug) to deal with PCOS-related infertility and I've lost 15 pounds without diet or exercise in eight weeks.  I am not diabetic and wasn't hugely obese either (female, 30, five-five, 157 pounds to begin with, now around 142).

I'm hoping the doctor will keep giving me the meds.  They work better than diet and exercise for me!

a lo-carb regimine will work like gangbusters for you AND treat you PCOD.  Just be sure not to use whey or soy protien to supplement your protien intake as it can be counter productive.   PCOD is a biatch and it alone gives lie to the whole "you are fat because you eat too much" line of BS

Personally HATED metformin for treating my beetus  made me sick as a dog, but then the DR put me on a max dose of 2000 mfg with no ramping up with is apparently a big no-no


Yeah - you have to start small with metformin.  I've missed two days of work in these eight weeks from being too sick GI-speaking to go in.  I've never tried low-carb but it's worth a shot.  I don't suppose you have any books you'd recommend on the subject??
 
2013-09-25 03:13:03 PM

OSUJillyBean: Magorn: OSUJillyBean: Dieted and exercised off and on for over a year.  I lost maybe 3 pounds.  Truns out I have PCOS, which causes crazy hormonal imbalances.  My doctor-lady put me on Metformin (a diabeetus drug) to deal with PCOS-related infertility and I've lost 15 pounds without diet or exercise in eight weeks.  I am not diabetic and wasn't hugely obese either (female, 30, five-five, 157 pounds to begin with, now around 142).

I'm hoping the doctor will keep giving me the meds.  They work better than diet and exercise for me!

a lo-carb regimine will work like gangbusters for you AND treat you PCOD.  Just be sure not to use whey or soy protien to supplement your protien intake as it can be counter productive.   PCOD is a biatch and it alone gives lie to the whole "you are fat because you eat too much" line of BS

Personally HATED metformin for treating my beetus  made me sick as a dog, but then the DR put me on a max dose of 2000 mfg with no ramping up with is apparently a big no-no

Yeah - you have to start small with metformin.  I've missed two days of work in these eight weeks from being too sick GI-speaking to go in.  I've never tried low-carb but it's worth a shot.  I don't suppose you have any books you'd recommend on the subject??


Best overall Low carb book I've ever read particularly if you have a scientific minds and like to know WHY this stuff works rather than just how to do it, is the book Protien Power By Drs. Eades and Eades.  Thier plan (40-carbs a day) was the one I followed to lose 100lbs 10 years ago  (in ~3months BTW- but recall I started at 370) and another 50 recently (in 4 months) after getting diagnosed with type II (the intervening decade involved me being stupid with food and eating like I used to.  No weight came back, but the typeII-which was in the wings before I lost the first chunk, manifested itself because of it).  He's also written on the PCOD low carb connection on his blog which is online too
 
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