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(Washington Post)   The GOP's effort to reach out to minorities and build a truly "Big tent" party continues apace as the VA GOP nominee for Lt. Governor says that all non-Christians are "practicing a false religion"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 156
    More: Dumbass, Virginia, GOP, big tent, state religion, minorities, faiths  
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1233 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Sep 2013 at 2:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-24 10:30:07 AM  
"If someone wants to put a stick in the ground and kneel down and worship that, that's their choice." says the man who worships TWO sticks in the ground in the shape of a cross.
 
2013-09-24 10:31:45 AM  
This guy has made me decide that the next politician that dares to NOT wear a U.S. flag pin on the lapel is the guy I'm voting for.
 
2013-09-24 10:40:32 AM  
Joke's on him.  I don't practice any religion.

/atheist
 
2013-09-24 10:41:12 AM  
The sad thing is, in some ways the LT gov in Va will be much more powerful than the Gov for the next two years since the state senate is evenly split and the LT gove breaks all ties, and while polling shows cuccinelli is getting shellacked by McAuliffe, so far the AG and LT gove races are basically dead heats.   The VA dem party needs to recognize this and start running some ads just quoting this guy so awareness of what a dangerous lunatic he really is starts to seep into the average Va voter's consciousness
 
2013-09-24 10:45:52 AM  
Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.
 
2013-09-24 10:47:16 AM  
Historically, it is a fact that this nation was founded by individuals who were Christians and wanted this to be a Christian nation. That's truth. That is historical fact.

While I'm sure there were "individuals" for whom that was a goal, this idea is presented as if the founding of this country was by Christians and for Christians, which is laughably inaccurate. And whether it's true or not, it's beyond irrelevant.
 
2013-09-24 10:51:02 AM  

Dinki: Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.


says who?  Buddhists certainly don;t believe this, nor most Hindus, in fact few Christians do.  Some Christian sects denounce "syncretism" which is the belief that all religions are EQUALLY valid, but most acknowledge that while they beieve thier doctrine and faith are superior to others, that there is some basic truths to be respected in all of them.  Even the most militant forms of Islam acknowlege this as Mohammed himself specifically commanded it.
 
2013-09-24 10:53:46 AM  
The GOP certainly can pitch a tent.
 
2013-09-24 11:03:16 AM  
It seems E.W. Jackson needs to review the Code of Virginia Title 57 Chapter 1.
 
2013-09-24 11:03:29 AM  
I am upset that my lack of religion is being characterized as a false religion.


Magorn: Even the most militant forms of Islam acknowlege this as Mohammed himself specifically commanded it


Uhh, no.

The most militiant forms are the ones burning churches.
 
2013-09-24 11:05:50 AM  

Magorn: Dinki: Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.

says who?  Buddhists certainly don;t believe this, nor most Hindus, in fact few Christians do.  Some Christian sects denounce "syncretism" which is the belief that all religions are EQUALLY valid, but most acknowledge that while they beieve thier doctrine and faith are superior to others, that there is some basic truths to be respected in all of them.  Even the most militant forms of Islam acknowlege this as Mohammed himself specifically commanded it.


There is a huge difference between saying that other religions have some of the same basic truths and accepting them as legitimate. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  It's not the first commandment for nothing. You can't claim to be the only path to salvation while saying those other paths are just as valid.

As for Buddhism, Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being.
 
2013-09-24 11:08:25 AM  

Dinki: There is a huge difference between saying that other religions have some of the same basic truths and accepting them as legitimate. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. It's not the first commandment for nothing.


You, uh...may want to look into that.

// unless...The B1G are numbered differently by Jews, Protestants, and Catholics, so you may be right after all
 
2013-09-24 11:13:53 AM  

Dr Dreidel: You, uh...may want to look into that.

// unless...The B1G are numbered differently by Jews, Protestants, and Catholics, so you may be right after all


Well you're right, some use I am the lord thy God as #1. But that sort of just reinforces my argument.
 
2013-09-24 11:20:45 AM  

Dinki: Dr Dreidel: You, uh...may want to look into that.

// unless...The B1G are numbered differently by Jews, Protestants, and Catholics, so you may be right after all

Well you're right, some use I am the lord thy God as #1. But that sort of just reinforces my argument.


Well yeah, but they all believe in the same God.  Muslims too.

But to get pedantic about it, that's my belief in God and doesn't say anything about forcing my belief on others.  If a Buddhist wants to believe something else, I'm cool with that.
 
2013-09-24 11:28:52 AM  

Dinki: Magorn: Dinki: Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.

says who?  Buddhists certainly don;t believe this, nor most Hindus, in fact few Christians do.  Some Christian sects denounce "syncretism" which is the belief that all religions are EQUALLY valid, but most acknowledge that while they beieve thier doctrine and faith are superior to others, that there is some basic truths to be respected in all of them.  Even the most militant forms of Islam acknowlege this as Mohammed himself specifically commanded it.

There is a huge difference between saying that other religions have some of the same basic truths and accepting them as legitimate. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  It's not the first commandment for nothing. You can't claim to be the only path to salvation while saying those other paths are just as valid.

As for Buddhism, Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being.


Right, which a commandment to the believers not to go taking up other religions, a prohibition on apostasy, but it's not necessarily a prohibition on saying "This Allah you Worship?  Same Guy we call Yahweh,  we think you've got some of the deets wrong, but you're basically on the right track"
 
2013-09-24 11:34:38 AM  
So are the Christians, if one is an atheist.  But the Constitution allows them that, so who cares?

/atheist
 
2013-09-24 11:34:53 AM  

enry: Dinki: Dr Dreidel: You, uh...may want to look into that.

// unless...The B1G are numbered differently by Jews, Protestants, and Catholics, so you may be right after all

Well you're right, some use I am the lord thy God as #1. But that sort of just reinforces my argument.

Well yeah, but they all believe in the same God.  Muslims too.


Generally, but there have been many discussions on what exactly it takes to violate that law (what qualifies as "the God" vs, say, a walking/talking golden calf; things like that), and according to Maimonedes (12th century), Islam is fine (since their concept of god is essentially the same as Jews'), but Catholics with the tripartite god concept and the Greco-Roman "god can impregnate people" thing, were not (since it's well-established in the OT and other canon that "God is one") - I can't recall if he mentioned Eastern Orthodox churches, but I'm unfamiliar with how they handle Trinity/v-birth anyway. (Protestants weren't around yet, but as I understand, the Trinity is not that big a deal for them.)

Anyway, since EW Jackson includes me twice over in that statement (that I used to follow a different religion and now I have none), I'm content to say "fark him with a side of guac."
 
2013-09-24 11:35:23 AM  
Idiots like this one are the reason I stay mostly in the broom closet about being pagan. Some very scary people out there in GOP land these days and I wouldn't put it past some of them to persecute me for my beliefs.
 
2013-09-24 11:37:06 AM  

Magorn: Dinki: Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.

says who?  Buddhists certainly don;t believe this, nor most Hindus, in fact few Christians do.  Some Christian sects denounce "syncretism" which is the belief that all religions are EQUALLY valid, but most acknowledge that while they beieve thier doctrine and faith are superior to others, that there is some basic truths to be respected in all of them.  Even the most militant forms of Islam acknowlege this as Mohammed himself specifically commanded it.


And in East Asia, religion is an altogether mix-and-match affair where a person can be an adherent to Taoism, Buddhism and the Chinese indigenous folk religion simultaneously. In Japan, Shintoism is often used for births and Buddhism for funerals. At my grandmother's funeral, both Buddhist monks and Taoist monks performed ritual prayers.
 
2013-09-24 11:40:00 AM  

Dinki: Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.


Meh. I'm pagan. I don't care what gods you worship. Just don't bug me about it and we're good.
 
2013-09-24 11:41:37 AM  

Dinki: As for Buddhism, Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being.


That's the line that's sold to a lot of the new-age Western converts of Buddhism. However, I assure you, in East Asia, among the indigenous adherents to Buddhism, it's not considered to be as such.
 
2013-09-24 11:43:10 AM  

Magorn: Same Guy we call Yahweh, we think you've got some of the deets wrong, but you're basically on the right track"


Ah but the details are the thing, aren't they? The basic premise of these religions is that they provide a path to salvation. And that path is the only true path. Sure other religions may talk about a God, and that God may even be the same god as ours, but they worship him differently, and not in the approved way. No true Christian can honestly tell you that they expect to see Muslims in their heaven, and vise-versa.
 
2013-09-24 11:56:25 AM  

Weaver95: Idiots like this one are the reason I stay mostly in the broom closet about being pagan. Some very scary people out there in GOP land these days and I wouldn't put it past some of them to persecute me for my beliefs.


Well, you did try to sacrifice the Virgin Connie Swail...
 
2013-09-24 12:00:08 PM  
My party has been switched with Folger's imbeciles.
Let's see if anyone noticed.
 
2013-09-24 12:00:42 PM  

UberDave: Weaver95: Idiots like this one are the reason I stay mostly in the broom closet about being pagan. Some very scary people out there in GOP land these days and I wouldn't put it past some of them to persecute me for my beliefs.

Well, you did try to sacrifice the Virgin Connie Swail...


I sacrificed a virgin daquari once. That's about as close to virgin sacrifices as pagans actually get.
 
2013-09-24 12:26:48 PM  

Dinki: Magorn: Same Guy we call Yahweh, we think you've got some of the deets wrong, but you're basically on the right track"

Ah but the details are the thing, aren't they? The basic premise of these religions is that they provide a path to salvation. And that path is the only true path. Sure other religions may talk about a God, and that God may even be the same god as ours, but they worship him differently, and not in the approved way. No true Christian can honestly tell you that they expect to see Muslims in their heaven, and vise-versa.


Well not sure as I qualify as a "true Christian" but I was raised Roman Catholic and generally hold to the tenets of that faith even now, and I honestly expect to see EVERYONE in Heaven.   Kinda skeptical on the whole concept of hell in general as I recognize it's basically a 3rd century import from Persian Manicheaism.  The only conception of hell I can accept is CS Lewis' which posits that hell is an extnesion of free will.   Even after death God will respect you choice to exist apart from him, and if you are filled with too much ego and pride that's a choice you might make. Such an existance, when contrasted with the Joy of oneness with the creator would be bleak indeed.  But that's are far as I can accept the concept.   Does that make me a non-christian?  Hard to say as it does kinda put a difficult sping on "salvation"   but my ideas on that are long and diffcult and probably extremely broing to anyone but me
 
2013-09-24 12:35:35 PM  

Dinki: Magorn: Dinki: Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.

says who?  Buddhists certainly don;t believe this, nor most Hindus, in fact few Christians do.  Some Christian sects denounce "syncretism" which is the belief that all religions are EQUALLY valid, but most acknowledge that while they beieve thier doctrine and faith are superior to others, that there is some basic truths to be respected in all of them.  Even the most militant forms of Islam acknowlege this as Mohammed himself specifically commanded it.

There is a huge difference between saying that other religions have some of the same basic truths and accepting them as legitimate. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  It's not the first commandment for nothing. You can't claim to be the only path to salvation while saying those other paths are just as valid.

As for Buddhism, Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being.


So, there are other Gods? Good to know.
 
2013-09-24 12:35:40 PM  
How long do you have to practice religion until you get it right?
 
2013-09-24 12:40:16 PM  

Magorn: Well not sure as I qualify as a "true Christian"


Whether you are or aren't depends solely upon whether or not you put sugar in your porridge.
 
2013-09-24 12:42:04 PM  

grokca: How long do you have to practice religion until you get it right?


Got me. I was happy being an agnostic until I had a rather rude awakening.
 
2013-09-24 12:44:22 PM  

Weaver95: grokca: How long do you have to practice religion until you get it right?

Got me. I was happy being an agnostic until I had a rather rude awakening.


God turned your wife into a pillar of salt?
 
2013-09-24 12:46:57 PM  

propasaurus: Dinki: Magorn: Dinki: Why is this controversial? A true believer of any of the major religions MUST believe that theirs is the only true religion and all others are false. It's sort of the signature defining characteristic of organized religions. Any 'religious' person that claims that all religions are equal is being disingenuous.

says who?  Buddhists certainly don;t believe this, nor most Hindus, in fact few Christians do.  Some Christian sects denounce "syncretism" which is the belief that all religions are EQUALLY valid, but most acknowledge that while they beieve thier doctrine and faith are superior to others, that there is some basic truths to be respected in all of them.  Even the most militant forms of Islam acknowlege this as Mohammed himself specifically commanded it.

There is a huge difference between saying that other religions have some of the same basic truths and accepting them as legitimate. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  It's not the first commandment for nothing. You can't claim to be the only path to salvation while saying those other paths are just as valid.

As for Buddhism, Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being.

So, there are other Gods? Good to know.


Indeed there are, and in fact, the Old Testament had references to various other Semetic gods that were subsequently purged when the Yahwehistic sect of ancient Judaism took over. One of them was Asherah, who, according to the archaeological evidence, was originally a Semetic goddess who was the female counterpart (and consort/wife) of Yahweh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah
 
2013-09-24 12:49:55 PM  

Ricardo Klement: Weaver95: grokca: How long do you have to practice religion until you get it right?

Got me. I was happy being an agnostic until I had a rather rude awakening.

God turned your wife into a pillar of salt?


Not exactly, no.
 
2013-09-24 12:56:36 PM  

Weaver95: Ricardo Klement: Weaver95: grokca: How long do you have to practice religion until you get it right?

Got me. I was happy being an agnostic until I had a rather rude awakening.

God turned your wife into a pillar of salt?

Not exactly, no.


Monosodium glutamate?
 
2013-09-24 12:56:41 PM  
Typical libs.

The GOP runs a black, gay candidate and you attack him for his religion.

We see who the real bigots are.
 
2013-09-24 01:03:02 PM  

RexTalionis: propasaurus: So, there are other Gods? Good to know.

Indeed there are, and in fact, the Old Testament had has references to various other Semetic gods that were subsequently purged when the Yahwehistic sect of ancient Judaism took over. One of them was Asherah, who, according to the archaeological evidence, was originally a Semetic goddess who was the female counterpart (and consort/wife) of Yahweh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah


"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - so there are other gods, but we're not supposed to pray to them (or even mention their names - I know many Jews who refer to "Harvey Kishka" to prevent saying Krishna's name). There's a bit of debate over whether it means "other things that take attention away from your relationship to god" (money is the big one) or literally "other gods", but in true-Jew form, they're both right - don't let anything become a bigger focus of your life than god, and also don't worship Ba'al.

In Judaism, god has many names in the OT (these actually might have once been known as "separate" gods), supposedly to reflect the many attributes of god.  There's also the fact that one of the names for god in the OT is a plural noun (the plural of "El", another name for god is "Elohim"). Again, the debate there is whether it refers to a pluralistic "consciousness" (god supposedly has both male and female characteristics), or that the one refers to a larger subset of attributes (a collection of "gods").

Also, plenty of non-Yahweh worshippers were able to tap into mystic power of some kind all over the place in the OT - the Egyptian magicians, Ba'alam, Haman, and several others. If not for gods/powers other than Yahweh, how do they get access to The Power?
 
2013-09-24 01:07:57 PM  

Dr Dreidel: If not for gods/powers other than Yahweh, how do they get access to The Power?


upload.wikimedia.org

Alternately:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-24 01:09:07 PM  

BKITU: Weaver95: Ricardo Klement: Weaver95: grokca: How long do you have to practice religion until you get it right?

Got me. I was happy being an agnostic until I had a rather rude awakening.

God turned your wife into a pillar of salt?

Not exactly, no.

Monosodium glutamate?


I'd be ok if the ex-gf got turned into frogurt.
 
2013-09-24 01:10:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: RexTalionis: propasaurus: So, there are other Gods? Good to know.

Indeed there are, and in fact, the Old Testament had has references to various other Semetic gods that were subsequently purged when the Yahwehistic sect of ancient Judaism took over. One of them was Asherah, who, according to the archaeological evidence, was originally a Semetic goddess who was the female counterpart (and consort/wife) of Yahweh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - so there are other gods, but we're not supposed to pray to them (or even mention their names - I know many Jews who refer to "Harvey Kishka" to prevent saying Krishna's name). There's a bit of debate over whether it means "other things that take attention away from your relationship to god" (money is the big one) or literally "other gods", but in true-Jew form, they're both right - don't let anything become a bigger focus of your life than god, and also don't worship Ba'al.

In Judaism, god has many names in the OT (these actually might have once been known as "separate" gods), supposedly to reflect the many attributes of god.  There's also the fact that one of the names for god in the OT is a plural noun (the plural of "El", another name for god is "Elohim"). Again, the debate there is whether it refers to a pluralistic "consciousness" (god supposedly has both male and female characteristics), or that the one refers to a larger subset of attributes (a collection of "gods").

Also, plenty of non-Yahweh worshippers were able to tap into mystic power of some kind all over the place in the OT - the Egyptian magicians, Ba'alam, Haman, and several others. If not for gods/powers other than Yahweh, how do they get access to The Power?


The old gods didn't go away...they're there if you want to talk to them. Just...don't be surprised if they answer back. They might have a lot to say.
 
2013-09-24 01:18:54 PM  

RexTalionis: Indeed there are, and in fact, the Old Testament had references to various other Semetic gods that were subsequently purged when the Yahwehistic sect of ancient Judaism took over. One of them was Asherah, who, according to the archaeological evidence, was originally a Semetic goddess who was the female counterpart (and consort/wife) of Yahweh.


It looks to have been an early example of the trouble that can arise from state tax support of one particular sect of religion -- see 2 Kings 22-23.
 
2013-09-24 01:25:36 PM  

Weaver95: The old gods didn't go away...they're there if you want to talk to them. Just...don't be surprised if they answer back. They might have a lot to say.


What's that book about the Old Gods living in...AZ? I read it about 4-5 years ago, don't remember the title or most of the plot, but I think the main guy/god was Ba'al.

// I wouldn't expect a response from any god - old, new, middle-aged, time-independent (or Time Lord) or Lovecraftian
 
2013-09-24 01:34:13 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Weaver95: The old gods didn't go away...they're there if you want to talk to them. Just...don't be surprised if they answer back. They might have a lot to say.

What's that book about the Old Gods living in...AZ? I read it about 4-5 years ago, don't remember the title or most of the plot, but I think the main guy/god was Ba'al.

// I wouldn't expect a response from any god - old, new, middle-aged, time-independent (or Time Lord) or Lovecraftian


See, that's what I thought. I figured I was too old to believe in that sort of nonsense. It was all cool, there wasn't anything out there interested in me. I've known people who go to Beltane and various rituals for years and its just a party with some impromptu theater thrown in for good measure. So I show up, party as usual, figure it's same as always.

Until the gods started talking.
 
2013-09-24 01:35:50 PM  

BKITU: Weaver95: Ricardo Klement: Weaver95: grokca: How long do you have to practice religion until you get it right?

Got me. I was happy being an agnostic until I had a rather rude awakening.

God turned your wife into a pillar of salt?

Not exactly, no.

Monosodium glutamate?


Ok, this made me laugh way more than I should have.
 
2013-09-24 01:36:20 PM  
Somehow, people never remember this shiat when they get to the polling place.

"Ooh, lookie! This guy is at the top of the list. He must be the best. I'm voting for him."
 
2013-09-24 01:38:48 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Somehow, people never remember this shiat when they get to the polling place.

"Ooh, lookie! This guy is at the top of the list. He must be the best. I'm voting for him."


To be fair, our society doesn't exactly encourage dispassionate analysis or thoughtful introspection.
 
2013-09-24 02:08:00 PM  
What's the problem? We should be commending him for having the balls to say what the rest of them are thinking
 
2013-09-24 02:09:34 PM  
If he said, "Following a religion other than Christianity," then he'd be technically correct. The other ones are false, too.
 
2013-09-24 02:10:49 PM  
Christians sound very similar to radical islamists.
 
2013-09-24 02:11:28 PM  

Uglybarnacle: Christians sound very similar to radical islamists.


Some of them do, yes.
 
2013-09-24 02:11:44 PM  
False religion, like yoga?
 
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