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(Bloomberg)   Doctors are preparing for the massive influx of patients once Obamacare goes into full effect. "It's like we're handing out bus tickets and the bus is already full"   ( divider line
    More: Obvious, obamacare, American Academy of Family Physicians, Holy Cross, Medicine study, San Francisco General Hospital, Commonwealth Fund, George Washington University in Washington, health law  
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3869 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2013 at 9:34 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2013-09-24 04:53:43 PM  

mwfark: doyner: mwfark: Nobody owes you healthcare. Act like a grown-up and take care of yourself.

I know, right?  Part of taking care of yourself is not having a childhood illness that is deemed a pre-existing condition.  Another part is not having your insurance recinded.  Another part is having a job that allows you to afford insurance...  It's so obvious!  Why is this so hard for people to understand?

I'll grant you pre-existing conditions, but that could have been addressed without the full implementation of the leviathan that is Obamacare. But if you want a better job with better benefits, then pursue it. Again, nobody owes you a thing.

I bet dollars to donuts that you've gotten plenty of help in your life.  You sure as fark wouldn't be here posting on the internet if you didn't enjoy the trappings of our society.

How about you grow up and learn that life isn't black and white, you aren't always right, and shiat happens?
2013-09-24 04:56:46 PM  

netcentric: Y2K was supposed to be gnarly too.

Not to mention banning Freon-12
2013-09-24 05:28:19 PM  

doyner: This text is now purple: doyner: Doctors who do it out of the good of their hearts are few and far between. Most of them get into the job for the pay. And again, with the cost of education, it's not worth it for most people.

So which country's system do you think works best?

Works best for what?

Maximizing public health while minimizing individual cost. (I know, I know, that's crazy talk, but work with me here.)

Germany, circa 1943?
2013-09-24 05:32:48 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: How do you think the doctor becomes aware of that abnormal lab result? Because nurses like your wife get the report, sees the result, and flags it for the doctor to see. Shes just as knowledgeable about the various lab test results as any physician and thats a FACT.

I depend on the lpn's working under me and trust their expertise implicitly

The skill of a medical practitioner is often directly proportional to how much they admit they don't know.

Thus, doctors think they are god; nurses think they are better than god.
2013-09-24 05:36:28 PM  

surrender903: Kit Fister: surrender903: Kit Fister: Tigger: moral consequences

The thing is noone is asking to imposition YOU for others to be insured.   Noone is asking for you to "carry anyone else."  Healthcare is not mutually exclusive.  Its not as if me caring for those on medicaid disqualifies you because you have Personal Choice.

Who is Noone and why does he/she keep asking me these things?!
2013-09-24 05:36:37 PM  

RedTank: It's not a right. It's the product of someone else's labor. It's no more your right than the products of your labor are anyone else's right. We should provide things like food, shelter, clothing and medicine for those unable to provide for themselves because it is right to do so and betters us as a society, but nine of those things are rights.

Ok, so the distinction you are trying to make is that there are rights and then there are certain products that a society has the right to provide? Why does that distinction matter in this case?

Your right to bear arms does not obligate society to provide you with a gun.
2013-09-24 05:38:58 PM  

MythDragon: . "The shortfall of primary-care access is not an insignificant problem

Can't you just say "The shortfall of primary-care access is a significant problem "?

Wouldn't that be easier Mr Doublenegatives?

My enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend.
There is a connotative difference between a positive and a double-negative.
2013-09-24 07:03:33 PM  

Flab: Kit Fister: HotWingConspiracy: Isn't this a good problem to have?

No. When you have a massive increase in number of patients vs. doctors, you have two problems: 1. The wait time for care gets longer. 2. The amount of time the doctor has to spend with each patient to properly diagnose an issue decreases.

As a subset of item 2, you also increase the workload and the chance of mistaken diagnosis, improper prescription of medication, and unnecessary medical procedures that result in issues for patients.

I want people to have health care, but we need to also help get more doctors into the system to offset the increased load.

I have an issue with your number 2.  Most doctors (even up here in our Great Frozen Socialist Paradise) already spend as little time as necessary with their patients because they can bill more patients that way.   So don't expect a big change in the way most doctors operate.

It's so easy to say that.  My current attending wanted to do the rainbow and butterfly method of only seeing 20 patients a day.  And he went bankrupt.  Now he works in this current practice and has to see patients back to back for 5 minute appointments, and he hates it.  But, at least he has a job again.  This is also how my Mom lost her job.  The doctor hadn't received a paycheck in months just trying to keep the business afloat, which ultimately didn't work out.  We can have the "fark them, they're doctors!" attitude but it affected all the other employees.  I'd love to spend 30 minutes with my patients.  Believe it or not, some of us actually are in this for the right reason.  But from what I've seen in the real world, it's not feasible unfortunately.  Things are a lot different than what people assume.  I'm leaving school with over a quarter of a million in debt.  I can assure you, I won't be swimming in money when I practice.
2013-09-24 07:22:04 PM  

ManRay: doyner: OK. And? Won't the Free MarketTM adjust to the new demand for supply?

The Free Market is pushing smart motivated people into other more lucrative professions. Why spend all that time going to school to work for the government when you can become a lawyer or work in finance and make much more money?

I have really bad news for anyone who thinks that in today's market they can become a lawyer and make a lot of money. There is a huge glut of lawyers. I can hire people who have their J.D. and passed the bar already for $10/hr internships. Unless you are in the top 3% of your law school class, and you are going to a top law school, you're farked if you are becoming a lawyer now.
2013-09-24 09:33:01 PM  
So demand is going to go up?  Which, according to free market principles, means prices will go up. Which, according to free market principles means, doctors will make lots of profit. Thanks Obama.
hej [recently expired TotalFark]
2013-09-24 09:48:21 PM  
TNel:You can not get healthcare for $150 a month in the wild without REALLY good employer contribution.  Stop lying.

For just an individual? Blue Cross Blue Shield will sell you their middle of the road insurance policy for that much w/o an employer.
2013-09-24 10:12:35 PM  
2013-09-24 10:14:30 PM  
lovefirststool: Because, speaking as a physician,

no, you're not.
2013-09-24 10:38:10 PM  

nobodycaneatfiftyeggs: randomjsa: I know things like "reality" are really hard for some of you to accept but the consequences of saying "screw the reality, we're moving forward no matter what" are going to be pretty significant.

What you think "is fair" and what "will actually give the best results" are not always the same thing.

Okay. Educate me.  What will actually give the best results?

Wir müssen damit die ungeeignet und die Untermenschen zu schnell sterben, dass sie nicht weiterhin unseren Völkern reine Blutlinie besudeln.
2013-09-24 10:48:37 PM  

ultraholland: lovefirststool: Because, speaking as a physician,

no, you're not.

I'd be interested to know how you know he isn't. Since he hasn't posted his medical license or any proof, obviously, we could say he's not, but right now, he's basically Schroedinger's Doctor. He both is and is not an MD since we have not directly observed his license.
2013-09-24 11:25:46 PM  
Aren't there still going to be sky high co-pays and deductibles? I'm sure that will prevent some of these poor people from treating their chronic conditions, and we'll all be saved.
2013-09-25 04:11:44 AM  

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Aren't there still going to be sky high co-pays and deductibles? I'm sure that will prevent some of these poor people from treating their chronic conditions, and we'll all be saved.

A lot of these poor people without insurance are healthy younger people, most of them never go to a doctor. And having jacked them for some cash for health insurance, they still won't. The sick ones already see doctors because they are on medicare.

Off hand I tend to think a lot of the screeching is from large corporations and insurance companies that administer employer based plans. They are the ones that tend to lose out because of Obamacare.

For instance it you know you can get reasonably priced insurance, then you can switch jobs easier. Large corps dislike that if they provide health insurance. Large corps that don't provide health insurance, know that states like California are going to jack them for cash to pay for subsidies.

The employer health plan administrators dislike Obamacare because the insurance companies that provide personal insurance will steal some of their business. Good money to be made insuring healthy working age people and the personal insurance providers want a piece of it.
2013-09-25 06:52:55 AM  

Kit Fister: ultraholland: lovefirststool: Because, speaking as a physician,

no, you're not.

I'd be interested to know how you know he isn't. Since he hasn't posted his medical license or any proof, obviously, we could say he's not, but right now, he's basically Schroedinger's Doctor. He both is and is not an MD since we have not directly observed his license.

I think he might be saying I'm not saying something a physician SHOULD say as a person in a profession built on altruism. But I only speak as one physician, not all physicians.

I have found that Fark is typically left leaning, and as a pediatric doctor, so am I. The access to care of many of my patients depends on many of the programs that republicans vilify - As does their access to education, food and a host of other things. The reason I take care of kids in the first place is, yeah, I see little common sense in the decisions of adults and have no interest in colluding in their bad decision making.

When I say working towards being a physician is not worth it, I meant it. There are MANY other careers where one can exercise their altruism and have a fufilled and balanced life. Half my work day is not spent seeing patients but doing paperwork. The necessary charting to satisfy billing requirements set by insurance companies and detailed enough to placate attorneys takes a long time. The constant of being told 'no' by payors and having to appeal. The expectation of parents that you will answer the most minute question at 3AM. Is it worth the square one debt? Is it worth the loss of time with my kids? The default is that we make so much money, and relative to the average, we do. It's not what one might think, but that's a different biatch post. But is all of that worth it? I say no. And I share that with young optimistic people looking for a path. Life is more than what you choose to do for a living and no one cares about the initials behind your name anymore.
2013-09-25 12:53:54 PM  
So we're going to need more doctors? That sounds suspiciously like Job Creation!
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