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(Bloomberg)   Doctors are preparing for the massive influx of patients once Obamacare goes into full effect. "It's like we're handing out bus tickets and the bus is already full"   (bloomberg.com) divider line 319
    More: Obvious, obamacare, American Academy of Family Physicians, Holy Cross, Medicine study, San Francisco General Hospital, Commonwealth Fund, George Washington University in Washington, health law  
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3848 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2013 at 9:34 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-24 10:55:23 AM

slykens1: TNel: You can not get healthcare for $150 a month in the wild without REALLY good employer contribution.  Stop lying.

I just pulled this quote online. There were options for under $90 a month but with a large deductible. In this case I can get a great PPO for under $150 and for $28 more I could get dental and vision.


[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 796x715]


Good Lord, that's better insurance than what my employer offers (and I pay $168/mo for)
 
2013-09-24 10:55:32 AM

Kit Fister: HotWingConspiracy: They're unionized, of course they do. Not exactly a growth industry though, I really doubt many will stop to consider sanitation over medical school.

For about $75k/year? And never having to look at or deal with anyone's diseased crap? I would.


Something tells me you don't really have a passion for medicine.

And if you think you won't be looking at diseased crap as a sanitation worker, I've got some terrible news for you.
 
2013-09-24 10:55:53 AM

King Something: Weaver95: Republican Jesus no doubt wants these people to crawl back in their holes and die quietly out of sight. Oh, and let's cut food stamps and give the rich another tax break, because why the f*ck not right?

Don't forget the lucrative contracts for the military hardware manufacturers!


Because what America truly needs is another 100 billion program to develop stealth toilets or a flying palace for Pentagon brass to lounge in while being shuttled to their "tactical briefing" in sunny Cancun.
 
2013-09-24 10:56:15 AM

Kit Fister: HotWingConspiracy: Kit Fister: doyner: So which country's system do you think works best?

I don't know, from my experience every country's healthcare system has snafus that affect care.

Plus in other countries all the doctors hung it up and became garbage men.

Just like you, buddy.

/garbage men, I learned, make a surprisingly good salary.


And only work one day a week.
 
2013-09-24 10:56:24 AM
And ill just put this out there since i started in the medical profession as an LPN:

Most people...including me before i became one almost 12 years ago...DRASTICALLY underrate the level of expertise someone with "just" an lpn has.

Now, as an NP, I can say with authority...70% of what I need to know to do my job...i learned as an lpn.

They arent nurses who arent smart enough to be an rn. Most of the lpn's i know are lpn's because they justbwant to be nurses and not have to deal with the administrative shiat that comes with that BSN.

In fact..i can also say that lpns know at LEAST 98% of what rn's know...and functionally, there isnt really any difference at all. The only reason there IS a difference is bc the state boards actually limit LPNs. They know HOW to hang blood...the state board just artificially prevents them from doing so.
 
2013-09-24 11:00:39 AM

QueenMamaBee: Good Lord, that's better insurance than what my employer offers (and I pay $168/mo for)


In the interests of full disclosure, using Geisinger is cheating a little bit. They are generally very well priced and the coverage is as good or better than the Blues and other commercial carriers in-network. They are a regional plan in our area so the out-of-network coverage is not very good at all.

But, if you live here they are usually the least expensive option with a good network and lots of facilities.

I considered taking a job a few years ago where I sat in on the annual benefits call - the HR rep clearly stated that those in the office I would have been in were not going to be popular that day as Geisinger beat every plan on the board by 50% in employee contributions - to the tune of $300+/mo difference for family coverage.
 
2013-09-24 11:02:35 AM

slykens1: QueenMamaBee: Good Lord, that's better insurance than what my employer offers (and I pay $168/mo for)

In the interests of full disclosure, using Geisinger is cheating a little bit. They are generally very well priced and the coverage is as good or better than the Blues and other commercial carriers in-network. They are a regional plan in our area so the out-of-network coverage is not very good at all.

But, if you live here they are usually the least expensive option with a good network and lots of facilities.

I considered taking a job a few years ago where I sat in on the annual benefits call - the HR rep clearly stated that those in the office I would have been in were not going to be popular that day as Geisinger beat every plan on the board by 50% in employee contributions - to the tune of $300+/mo difference for family coverage.


I farking hate the Blues.
 
2013-09-24 11:03:08 AM

tricycleracer: How to deal with a full bus:


Later...

www.icansmellyourbrains.com
 
2013-09-24 11:07:25 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: Kit Fister: The more you eat the more you fart: Doesnt matter..nice strawman though.

Why should a highly educated medical professional..who has people's very lives in their hands...accept $15/hr?

Even an LPN makes life and death decisions on a daily basis.

I dunno about you...but id kind of prefer those people making those decisions about me or my family be paid fairly for their level of expertise.

I agree. But, you don't have to be a dick.

But at least I...unlike you...work in the medical field...and actually know wtf im talking about when it comes to the real-world impact "obamacare" will have.

I never claimed to not be a dick. I claimed i know more about such things than you...and i do.

You..on the other hand..are possibly less of a dick...but are also much less informed of the truth than I, but yet you keep pretending like u know wtf you're talking about while you clearly do not.


With all due respect, anyone who claims with certainty how the ACA will change healthcare one way or the other is an unknowing gullible partisan schill. I mean no offense, but this is the truth. I've been a victim of the propaganda as well, but now I'm way high up on this pedestal of enlightenment. (I thought I'd throw that strawman out there now before someone else does.) Anyways, reality is we won't know how all the parts fall into place till the ACA has been fully implemented and established. There ARE going to be kinks as patients, insurers, healthcare professionals, state governments, and the Feds work things out, but it's part of implementation. Only time will tell.
 
2013-09-24 11:08:27 AM
I'd say it's more like a horny Chihuahua on a chinchilla pantleg but that's must me.

What is there a hole in your glove kid?  I'm pitching but you ain't catching!

- Foghorn Leghorn, The Blue Material
 
2013-09-24 11:10:14 AM
Speaking of the great white north, I vacationed with my wife up in Nova Scotia this summer and we met a nice couple that lived outside of Toronto who said they knew several people who went to the states for various treatments because they didn't want to wait and perceived the level of care to be better here.  The couple was married with no kids and probably well off middle class, and I'm assuming all their friends were as well, so I'm sure that has something to do with it.  It was just an odd moment as my wife was about to make her preference for single payer systems known (one political issue she likes expressing her opinion about) as she works as a PT and sees how bad our insurance system works currently.  Half the time I think we'd be better off moving to a single payer system.  It was kind of odd though, hearing our two Canadian breakfast companions hope that the US doesn't go single payer because they like having the option to come here.
 
2013-09-24 11:10:16 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: And ill just put this out there since i started in the medical profession as an LPN:

Most people...including me before i became one almost 12 years ago...DRASTICALLY underrate the level of expertise someone with "just" an lpn has.

Now, as an NP, I can say with authority...70% of what I need to know to do my job...i learned as an lpn.

They arent nurses who arent smart enough to be an rn. Most of the lpn's i know are lpn's because they justbwant to be nurses and not have to deal with the administrative shiat that comes with that BSN.

In fact..i can also say that lpns know at LEAST 98% of what rn's know...and functionally, there isnt really any difference at all. The only reason there IS a difference is bc the state boards actually limit LPNs. They know HOW to hang blood...the state board just artificially prevents them from doing so.


My wife is an LPN, and its amazing how much she knows compared to a doctor.  Considering they do the majority of the call backs and explanations to patients about what's going on, get first look at all the lab work, tests, etc.  they just have no choice but absorb an incredible amount of information.  Also helps she works in an office with several primaries and specialists.
 
2013-09-24 11:11:22 AM

QueenMamaBee: slykens1: TNel: You can not get healthcare for $150 a month in the wild without REALLY good employer contribution.  Stop lying.

I just pulled this quote online. There were options for under $90 a month but with a large deductible. In this case I can get a great PPO for under $150 and for $28 more I could get dental and vision.


[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 796x715]

Good Lord, that's better insurance than what my employer offers (and I pay $168/mo for)


That is cheap, I would be torn on the top or bottom depending on if you plan on hitting doctors more than 3 times a year but impressively cheap.  Take it back.  The cheap one gives vision and dental also.
 
2013-09-24 11:12:50 AM

Weaver95: FlashHarry: Bareefer Obonghit: Sorry assholes, we're fresh out of health care!

yeah, let them use the emergency room as a doctor and let us pay for it when they can't! it's worked so well before! besides, preventative care is for pussies, amirite!

All those sick people are just a drain on society anyways. The true ayn randian followers of Jesus  Darwinian followers of science know that the strong survive and the weak shall perish because THAT'S how the god of peace and love  nature works gotdamnit! Darwin is gonna kill the shiat outta the sick and poor, that's what he's gonna do!

 
2013-09-24 11:16:43 AM
There will still be a large crowd of people that still hate, and will forever hate and avoid going to the doctor, even if it is free.

/me
 
2013-09-24 11:18:30 AM

QueenMamaBee: The more you eat the more you fart: I work in healthcare..so getting a kick...


99% of the crap you hear about obamacare farking up heathcare is just that...crap.

THIS

It seems to me that more of the people we see actually having insurance is a good thing.


Yeah, heaven forbid any of us healthy, relatively wealthy people should be inconvenienced by a crush of people in need of health care that has been beyond reach.

Sounds absolutely horrible too, with clinics having to hire more people to deal with all that extra business. This is going to screw everything up.
 
2013-09-24 11:20:44 AM

Capo Del Bandito: Highroller48: The notion that ability to pay should ever impact necessary medical care in any way is laughably stupid. Necessary medical care is a basic human right. Unless you're conservative, in which case the only truly inalienable human right is to make as much money as you can off, of whomever you can, for as long as you can, by whatever means you can, because FREEDOM!

I never understood your kind. Too much compassion or empathy or something. The idea that anyone has a 'right' to any sort of extension on their life, or to be 'well' is laughable.


You've never read real books, have you? May I recommend starting with John Rawls.
 
2013-09-24 11:21:12 AM

jfivealive: The more you eat the more you fart: And ill just put this out there since i started in the medical profession as an LPN:

Most people...including me before i became one almost 12 years ago...DRASTICALLY underrate the level of expertise someone with "just" an lpn has.

Now, as an NP, I can say with authority...70% of what I need to know to do my job...i learned as an lpn.

They arent nurses who arent smart enough to be an rn. Most of the lpn's i know are lpn's because they justbwant to be nurses and not have to deal with the administrative shiat that comes with that BSN.

In fact..i can also say that lpns know at LEAST 98% of what rn's know...and functionally, there isnt really any difference at all. The only reason there IS a difference is bc the state boards actually limit LPNs. They know HOW to hang blood...the state board just artificially prevents them from doing so.

My wife is an LPN, and its amazing how much she knows compared to a doctor.  Considering they do the majority of the call backs and explanations to patients about what's going on, get first look at all the lab work, tests, etc.  they just have no choice but absorb an incredible amount of information.  Also helps she works in an office with several primaries and specialists.


Bc most ppl dont understand what REALLY goes on.

How do you think the doctor becomes aware of that abnormal lab result? Because nurses like your wife get the report, sees the result, and flags it for the doctor to see. Shes just as knowledgeable about the various lab test results as any physician and thats a FACT.

I depend on the lpn's working under me and trust their expertise implicitly
 
2013-09-24 11:21:38 AM

Mose: Speaking of the great white north, I vacationed with my wife up in Nova Scotia this summer and we met a nice couple that lived outside of Toronto who said they knew several people who went to the states for various treatments because they didn't want to wait and perceived the level of care to be better here.  The couple was married with no kids and probably well off middle class, and I'm assuming all their friends were as well, so I'm sure that has something to do with it.  It was just an odd moment as my wife was about to make her preference for single payer systems known (one political issue she likes expressing her opinion about) as she works as a PT and sees how bad our insurance system works currently.  Half the time I think we'd be better off moving to a single payer system.  It was kind of odd though, hearing our two Canadian breakfast companions hope that the US doesn't go single payer because they like having the option to come here.


Of course they do. The existence of a two tier health care system within driving distance is perfect if you are able to purchase the top tier and you live in another country so  don't have to deal with the economic or moral consequences of that system.

I like that there's cheap beer just south of us in Mexico. That's not an argument in favor of the Mexican economy.
 
2013-09-24 11:24:31 AM

jaybeezey: Weaver95: FlashHarry: Bareefer Obonghit: Sorry assholes, we're fresh out of health care!

yeah, let them use the emergency room as a doctor and let us pay for it when they can't! it's worked so well before! besides, preventative care is for pussies, amirite!

All those sick people are just a drain on society anyways. The true ayn randian followers of Jesus  Darwinian followers of science know that the strong survive and the weak shall perish because THAT'S how the god of peace and love  nature works gotdamnit! Darwin is gonna kill the shiat outta the sick and poor, that's what he's gonna do!


I like you.
 
2013-09-24 11:26:23 AM

grinding_journalist: James!: Sounds like a good time to go to medical school.

Did you miss the part in all the articles discussing the rollout where they say doctor fees are going to be a percentage of what they are for medicare patients? And the part where medicare pays about 25-50% of private insurance?

So, sure go to med school if you want to be a "government doctor" and be in debt till you're 50.


Yeah I have relatives that say that same thing.  They are both doctors and they complain that health care reform will mean that it will no longer be worth it to go to medical school.  Sometimes they say that in their mansion.  Sometimes it's at their summer house on the lake or maybe it's at their place in Florida.  They probably say it on their yacht but it's hard to hear them above the noise of all the other boats and sports cars they own.  I feel bad for future doctors.  They will probably have to get by on less then a million a year.
 
2013-09-24 11:26:47 AM

Tigger: moral consequences


I love how people keep bringing up morality as if anyone even began to consider morality in the equation with regards to healthcare. Seriously, most people in this country don't give a flying fark about people they don't know, and for most of us, it's not our problem.

/I got enough of my own shiat to worry about, I don't need to worry about your shiat too.
 
2013-09-24 11:28:30 AM

Tigger: Mose: Speaking of the great white north, I vacationed with my wife up in Nova Scotia this summer and we met a nice couple that lived outside of Toronto who said they knew several people who went to the states for various treatments because they didn't want to wait and perceived the level of care to be better here.  The couple was married with no kids and probably well off middle class, and I'm assuming all their friends were as well, so I'm sure that has something to do with it.  It was just an odd moment as my wife was about to make her preference for single payer systems known (one political issue she likes expressing her opinion about) as she works as a PT and sees how bad our insurance system works currently.  Half the time I think we'd be better off moving to a single payer system.  It was kind of odd though, hearing our two Canadian breakfast companions hope that the US doesn't go single payer because they like having the option to come here.

Of course they do. The existence of a two tier health care system within driving distance is perfect if you are able to purchase the top tier and you live in another country so  don't have to deal with the economic or moral consequences of that system.

I like that there's cheap beer just south of us in Mexico. That's not an argument in favor of the Mexican economy.


Easy, Tigger.  I wasn't arguing one way or another.  It was just an interesting perspective I hadn't considered before.

Consider changing your name to Francis.
 
2013-09-24 11:29:05 AM

Kit Fister: Tigger: moral consequences

I love how people keep bringing up morality as if anyone even began to consider morality in the equation with regards to healthcare. Seriously, most people in this country don't give a flying fark about people they don't know, and for most of us, it's not our problem.

/I got enough of my own shiat to worry about, I don't need to worry about your shiat too.


so essentially "fark you, i got mine"?
 
2013-09-24 11:30:52 AM

Kit Fister: Tigger: moral consequences

I love how people keep bringing up morality as if anyone even began to consider morality in the equation with regards to healthcare. Seriously, most people in this country don't give a flying fark about people they don't know, and for most of us, it's not our problem.

/I got enough of my own shiat to worry about, I don't need to worry about your shiat too.


How do you expect humanity to survive if you think that way?  Not giving a fark is step one to the end of everyone.  I'll bet you don't vote either because what does one vote matter right?
 
2013-09-24 11:33:07 AM

doyner: I want single-payer.


Bide your time. It's coming.
 
2013-09-24 11:33:32 AM

Kit Fister: Tigger: moral consequences

I love how people keep bringing up morality as if anyone even began to consider morality in the equation with regards to healthcare. Seriously, most people in this country don't give a flying fark about people they don't know, and for most of us, it's not our problem.

/I got enough of my own shiat to worry about, I don't need to worry about your shiat too.


You should consider that not everyone thinks like you do.
 
2013-09-24 11:33:47 AM

surrender903: Kit Fister: Tigger: moral consequences

I love how people keep bringing up morality as if anyone even began to consider morality in the equation with regards to healthcare. Seriously, most people in this country don't give a flying fark about people they don't know, and for most of us, it's not our problem.

/I got enough of my own shiat to worry about, I don't need to worry about your shiat too.

so essentially "fark you, i got mine"?


Basically yeah. It's tough and unpleasant, but when ti comes down to it, most people don't have the luxury or bandwidth to deal with the problems of others based on the crap in their own lives, and most people wouldn't want to be responsible for people they have no connection to.

People give to charity, they donate to the homeless, they put in time at the soup kitchen or help a million other programs and orgs set up to help people, but for most of us, that's the best we can do and after that, it's up to you to take the help and move forward.

Or, as a friend of mine always put it: We'll help you back up on your feet, but we're not going to carry you.
 
2013-09-24 11:35:39 AM

Mose: Speaking of the great white north, I vacationed with my wife up in Nova Scotia this summer and we met a nice couple that lived outside of Toronto who said they knew several people who went to the states for various treatments because they didn't want to wait and perceived the level of care to be better here.  The couple was married with no kids and probably well off middle class, and I'm assuming all their friends were as well, so I'm sure that has something to do with it.  It was just an odd moment as my wife was about to make her preference for single payer systems known (one political issue she likes expressing her opinion about) as she works as a PT and sees how bad our insurance system works currently.  Half the time I think we'd be better off moving to a single payer system.  It was kind of odd though, hearing our two Canadian breakfast companions hope that the US doesn't go single payer because they like having the option to come here.


Simply put, the US system is very good if you are wealthy.

Wealthier people will appreciate a system that prioritizes wealth over need.
 
2013-09-24 11:35:47 AM

RedTank: How do you expect humanity to survive if you think that way? Not giving a fark is step one to the end of everyone. I'll bet you don't vote either because what does one vote matter right?


I don't expect humanity to survive. In fact, I'm surprised we've lasted this long.

Look, I vote. I push for better laws for healthcare and such. I donate to charities and work for Habitat for Humanity and other charities when I can. But there's only so much that I can do as an individual. I don't make a lot of money, and I dont' have a lot of time or bandwidth to donate to other people. At some point, those other people need to learn to fend for themselves and contribute if they can.  I can only lead my own life, I can't lead yours too.
 
2013-09-24 11:36:35 AM

Kit Fister: surrender903: Kit Fister: Tigger: moral consequences

I love how people keep bringing up morality as if anyone even began to consider morality in the equation with regards to healthcare. Seriously, most people in this country don't give a flying fark about people they don't know, and for most of us, it's not our problem.

/I got enough of my own shiat to worry about, I don't need to worry about your shiat too.

so essentially "fark you, i got mine"?

Basically yeah. It's tough and unpleasant, but when ti comes down to it, most people don't have the luxury or bandwidth to deal with the problems of others based on the crap in their own lives, and most people wouldn't want to be responsible for people they have no connection to.

People give to charity, they donate to the homeless, they put in time at the soup kitchen or help a million other programs and orgs set up to help people, but for most of us, that's the best we can do and after that, it's up to you to take the help and move forward.

Or, as a friend of mine always put it: We'll help you back up on your feet, but we're not going to carry you.


The thing is noone is asking to imposition YOU for others to be insured.  Noone is asking for you to "carry anyone else."  Healthcare is not mutually exclusive.  Its not as if me caring for those on medicaid disqualifies you because you have Personal Choice.
 
2013-09-24 11:36:48 AM

HotWingConspiracy: You should consider that not everyone thinks like you do.


No, not everyone does think like I do. And thank god for that. But as of right now, I gotta be concerned about me and mine and focus on keeping that together. Maybe someday when I'm wealthy and I have nothing better to do, I'll foist myself onto the homeless or the destitute and force them to live life the way I think they should and take on the problems of others.
 
2013-09-24 11:39:18 AM
Yet they are able to come up with $50 a week for smokes and $50 or so a week for the drink???
Not that I don't realize there are folks that are so down and out that this is their only vise to make their crappy life have meaning.
We need to teach, we need to shove economics down our kids. We need to start a movement to make it cool not to have 100 shoes and those who do losers! We need to get our priorities strait. It is bull to say you can't pay for health insurance while wearing $150 jeans and $200 shoes, while eating out every day!
 
2013-09-24 11:42:16 AM

Thisbymaster: You mean treating the people that have needed it for years but couldn't afford it? Yes there will be a surge at the beginning but after that it will drop to normal levels.


No, because those people that were being left out to die will continue to be in the system.  The surge will decrease but settle to a new, higher level.

shaumah: I don't know what the general concensus actually is, but from my personal tiny sample size, I haven't spoken with any doctors who are happy about the Affordable Care Act. My wife's OB/GYN recently retired early rather than try to keep his practice open once the policies go into effect.

While I fully agree that it would be wonderful to have healthcare for everyone, I'm just not sure the reality is feasible, because even if you have a fully funded program, you can't force people to become doctors/nurses.


He must have been a Teabagger that bought into all the Republican lies.  ACA won't hurt the docs.

There's no issue of forcing people to be docs or nurses.  Pay enough and they will come.
 
2013-09-24 11:42:35 AM

surrender903: The thing is noone is asking to imposition YOU for others to be insured. Noone is asking for you to "carry anyone else." Healthcare is not mutually exclusive. Its not as if me caring for those on medicaid disqualifies you because you have Personal Choice.


I didn't say that it did. My original point was that people don't go into the business of healthcare because it costs a lot and given the job description, not many people wnat to do the job, and that's their choice. The attitude that people should be made to is silly.

If we're going to make a change for the better, then we need to do a lot more than just force coverage for a bunch of people without fixing some of the underlying problems in the system in general:

1. Cost of education.
2. Cost of supplies, medications, and insurance
3. Ability of insurers to collude with hospitals and doctors to artificially set pricing.
4. Ability of insurers to collude with each other to artificially set pricing
5. Overhauling the patent system such that lifesaving medications cannot be artificially inflated or kept out of the hands of people who need it by companies making a profit
6. Overhauling the way medications get approved and how research is conducted to stop favoring pharma companies who research to make a profit, not to stop diseases.
7. Overhauling how people view health care in this country and the mechanisms that are there to provide it
8. Improving the overall health of the general populace to reduce the dependence on healthcare.

and so on and so on and so on.
 
2013-09-24 11:43:51 AM
Yeah libtards let's give everyone everything for free
 
2013-09-24 11:45:22 AM

Kit Fister: HotWingConspiracy: You should consider that not everyone thinks like you do.

No, not everyone does think like I do. And thank god for that. But as of right now, I gotta be concerned about me and mine and focus on keeping that together.


So you understand the thinking behind poor and middle class people that couldn't access health care/insurance wanting some kind of subsidy or at least the chance to get in the game.

Maybe someday when I'm wealthy and I have nothing better to do, I'll foist myself onto the homeless or the destitute and force them to live life the way I think they should and take on the problems of others.

Is this Randian parody?
 
2013-09-24 11:46:24 AM

Kit Fister: surrender903: The thing is noone is asking to imposition YOU for others to be insured. Noone is asking for you to "carry anyone else." Healthcare is not mutually exclusive. Its not as if me caring for those on medicaid disqualifies you because you have Personal Choice.

I didn't say that it did. My original point was that people don't go into the business of healthcare because it costs a lot and given the job description, not many people wnat to do the job, and that's their choice. The attitude that people should be made to is silly.

If we're going to make a change for the better, then we need to do a lot more than just force coverage for a bunch of people without fixing some of the underlying problems in the system in general:

1. Cost of education.
2. Cost of supplies, medications, and insurance
3. Ability of insurers to collude with hospitals and doctors to artificially set pricing.
4. Ability of insurers to collude with each other to artificially set pricing
5. Overhauling the patent system such that lifesaving medications cannot be artificially inflated or kept out of the hands of people who need it by companies making a profit
6. Overhauling the way medications get approved and how research is conducted to stop favoring pharma companies who research to make a profit, not to stop diseases.
7. Overhauling how people view health care in this country and the mechanisms that are there to provide it
8. Improving the overall health of the general populace to reduce the dependence on healthcare.

and so on and so on and so on.


Ill actually agree with most of this.
 
2013-09-24 11:48:34 AM

Kit Fister: RedTank: How do you expect humanity to survive if you think that way? Not giving a fark is step one to the end of everyone. I'll bet you don't vote either because what does one vote matter right?

I don't expect humanity to survive. In fact, I'm surprised we've lasted this long.

Look, I vote. I push for better laws for healthcare and such. I donate to charities and work for Habitat for Humanity and other charities when I can. But there's only so much that I can do as an individual. I don't make a lot of money, and I dont' have a lot of time or bandwidth to donate to other people. At some point, those other people need to learn to fend for themselves and contribute if they can.  I can only lead my own life, I can't lead yours too.


Fair enough.  I respect your honesty and your charity.

Although, I will say even as cliche as it is, we are only as strong as the weakest link.  We cannot ignore the weak link otherwise it will only get weaker and ultimately weaken us all and possibility break

We all pay for each others healthcare one way or another.  It doesn't matter if the government forces us or not, we will all pay.  I'd rather our healthcare be a flawed system built on accountability rather than a flawed system based on exclusivity.   I make the distinction based solely on morality.
 
2013-09-24 11:49:25 AM

KimNorth: Yet they are able to come up with $50 a week for smokes and $50 or so a week for the drink???
Not that I don't realize there are folks that are so down and out that this is their only vise to make their crappy life have meaning.
We need to teach, we need to shove economics down our kids. We need to start a movement to make it cool not to have 100 shoes and those who do losers! We need to get our priorities strait. It is bull to say you can't pay

 for health insurance while wearing $150 jeans and $200 shoes, while eating out every day!

Yeah! Just like how you can't argue you shouldn't pay more taxes if you're rich. You're rich, dummy! Of course you can pay more.

It is bull to say you can't pay  more taxes while fueling up a 20 million dollar jet to take you to your 40 million dollar yacht.
 
2013-09-24 11:50:48 AM
All I see when I RTFA is DOCTORS HAVE ENOUGH MONEY NOW, THANKS.

/you were ALREADY treating me, you lazy motherfarkers
 
2013-09-24 11:51:08 AM

TelemonianAjax: Capo Del Bandito: Highroller48: The notion that ability to pay should ever impact necessary medical care in any way is laughably stupid. Necessary medical care is a basic human right. Unless you're conservative, in which case the only truly inalienable human right is to make as much money as you can off, of whomever you can, for as long as you can, by whatever means you can, because FREEDOM!

I never understood your kind. Too much compassion or empathy or something. The idea that anyone has a 'right' to any sort of extension on their life, or to be 'well' is laughable.

You've never read real books, have you? May I recommend starting with John Rawls.


A cursory google search says 'american moral philosopher'.

Not really interested. More into moral relativity. That seems to be the main force behind the 'everyone deserves to have access to health related services; 'Other people dying and stuff is sad'. Life's tough. It sucks. Learn to deal with it.

Instead we have 'noooo everyone else has to be taken care of cuz equality'.

Damn normal people. They ruin everything nice.
 
2013-09-24 11:52:19 AM

Loren: There's no issue of forcing people to be docs or nurses. Pay enough and they will come.


Unless the cost of malpractice insurance and the other administrative BS that goes with it is unappealing, no matter the pay*.


* - I have family members who are doctors who biatch about this all the time, thus I cite them as my source. I fully admit that I'm not a doctor, so I will bow to their experience
 
2013-09-24 11:52:49 AM

Kit Fister: Tigger: moral consequences

I love how people keep bringing up morality as if anyone even began to consider morality in the equation with regards to healthcare. Seriously, most people in this country don't give a flying fark about people they don't know, and for most of us, it's not our problem.

/I got enough of my own shiat to worry about, I don't need to worry about your shiat too.


Not everyone shares your failings.
 
2013-09-24 11:53:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Yeah! Just like how you can't argue you shouldn't pay more taxes if you're rich. You're rich, dummy! Of course you can pay more.

It is bull to say you can't pay more taxes while fueling up a 20 million dollar jet to take you to your 40 million dollar yacht.


But is that all you have for being ok with taxing the rich more? "They have more, the government should be able to take it"?

I don't see how that's any different from their 'i earned it it's mine' attitude.
 
2013-09-24 11:53:24 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Kit Fister: HotWingConspiracy: You should consider that not everyone thinks like you do.

No, not everyone does think like I do. And thank god for that. But as of right now, I gotta be concerned about me and mine and focus on keeping that together.

So you understand the thinking behind poor and middle class people that couldn't access health care/insurance wanting some kind of subsidy or at least the chance to get in the game.

Maybe someday when I'm wealthy and I have nothing better to do, I'll foist myself onto the homeless or the destitute and force them to live life the way I think they should and take on the problems of others.

Is this Randian parody?


No, it's sarcasm.
 
2013-09-24 11:54:44 AM

kortex: Yeah libtards let's give everyone everything for free


As opposed to only giving the corporations freebies? We bailed out wall street, we can spare a couple billion for health care. Suck it up and learn to deal with it.
 
2013-09-24 11:55:08 AM
No one was denied healthcare before. Not in America. So get over that bullshiat. What did we have 10% uninsured?

Now, they will be. Not only that, our most talented doctors will be leaving the field.
 
2013-09-24 11:55:17 AM

Tigger: Not everyone shares your failings.


Why would you consider it a 'failing' because someone has a different set of morality guidlines than you?

That's like the Bible Thumpers saying you're a failure because you didn't accept zombie Jesus as your lord and savior. Your idea of Good and Evil supercedes his?

Sheer dickery.
 
2013-09-24 11:55:50 AM

Tigger: Not everyone shares your failings.


So, it's a failing that I don't go out of my way to prop up other people, more than building houses with Habitat for Humanity, volunteering at the soup kitchen, donating to the local food pantry and to places like St. Judes and other systems that help people afford medical care, and so on and so forth?  Good to know. Guess I can stop doing all that.
 
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