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(Washington Post)   Now that Ted Cruz has promised to filibuster the budget bill, it has become physically impossible, according to the rules of the Senate and the law of time and space, for us to avoid a shutdown unless the House GOP caves, like, right now   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 345
    More: Interesting, Senate, Budget Planning  
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2969 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Sep 2013 at 7:44 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-24 02:28:58 AM

SevenizGud: simplicimus: Social Security and Medicare are self funded. What else has talk radio told you?

Want to know how I know you don't know what paygo means?


Oh for deity of choice's sake, just raise the artificial contribution limit or institute means testing. The systems would remain solvent. So what else has talk radio told you?
 
2013-09-24 02:33:06 AM

SevenizGud: From The Woods: how the modern world which you are enjoying so much came to be

Yeah, I am acutely aware of how I worked hard to get where I am, in spite of a lot of cancers on society demanding I give them my money so they can buy the same shiat as I have, in spite of the fact that they are worthless turds who never did anything useful in their lives.

Just think how much MORE I would be enjoying the modern world if it weren't filled with a bunch of greedy "gimme free healthcare" losers.


I'm also acutely aware of the caricature of a conservative you are representing. Republicans of yore would laugh in your face if you said such things to them... this is blatantly crafted to be incendiary and provoke a strong response from FarkLibs. Though I guess it is appropriate in this space to go ahead and say you used to be a gleam in your fathers eye, then a pathetically fragile babe, then a vulnerable child, and that there have always been and will always be a segment of the populace that have grown old and infirm, yet deserve dignity in their old age despite being unable to work. Your caricatures generalization of large amounts of people as being unwilling to work, or mentally retarded, stems from the strong current of racism towards impoverished blacks that has been around in the dixiecrat/southern republican area forever.
 
2013-09-24 02:33:53 AM

simplicimus: institute means testing


In other words, pay into it...but don't get anything out unless your life is a total washout.

Yeah, that's stellar public policy.
 
2013-09-24 02:35:49 AM

SevenizGud: From The Woods: how the modern world which you are enjoying so much came to be

Yeah, I am acutely aware of how I worked hard to get where I am, in spite of a lot of cancers on society demanding I give them my money so they can buy the same shiat as I have, in spite of the fact that they are worthless turds who never did anything useful in their lives.

Just think how much MORE I would be enjoying the modern world if it weren't filled with a bunch of greedy "gimme free healthcare" losers.


Ok, so you can't escape microeconomic thinking. Here's what happens on the macro level: Insurance risk pools increase which is good for insurance companies as the pool expands to include low-risk participants. Minor medical conditions are covered which means costly (and mostly unreimbursed) ER treatments are avoided, reducing loss to hospitals, thus reducing the costs of hospitals to provide services. Simple enough for you? More profits for Insurance companies, less revenue loss for hospitals.
 
2013-09-24 02:36:28 AM

simplicimus: SevenizGud: simplicimus: Social Security and Medicare are self funded. What else has talk radio told you?

Want to know how I know you don't know what paygo means?

Oh for deity of choice's sake, just raise the artificial contribution limit or institute means testing. The systems would remain solvent. So what else has talk radio told you?


"Get on the Rocket and see the stars, Rocket Fuel Malt Liquor, DAAAMMMMMNN!"
 
2013-09-24 02:37:45 AM

SevenizGud: simplicimus: institute means testing

In other words, pay into it...but don't get anything out unless your life is a total washout.

Yeah, that's stellar public policy.


I don't get the tax write-offs major corporations get, much less subsidies of such a large scale. What's your point?
 
2013-09-24 02:38:57 AM

From The Woods: Your caricatures generalization of large amounts of people as being unwilling to work, or mentally retarded, stems from the strong current of racism towards impoverished blacks that has been around in the dixiecrat/southern republican area forever.


Yeah, well I'm for telling people of all shades to get a farking job. But way to play the race card. It worked so well for Detroit maybe we should use it nationwide.
 
2013-09-24 02:41:10 AM

SevenizGud: From The Woods: Your caricatures generalization of large amounts of people as being unwilling to work, or mentally retarded, stems from the strong current of racism towards impoverished blacks that has been around in the dixiecrat/southern republican area forever.

Yeah, well I'm for telling people of all shades to get a farking job. But way to play the race card. It worked so well for Detroit maybe we should use it nationwide.


Where there are jobs to give, there are people that will apply for it. Do you agree?
 
2013-09-24 02:43:04 AM

simplicimus: Here's what happens on the macro level: Insurance risk pools increase


Why would I want to be lumped in a risk pool with a bunch of people who smoke and make all those other retarded health care decisions?

Should I also want to be in a car insurance risk pool with 16-year-old boys, because...increased risk pool?
 
2013-09-24 02:43:20 AM

SevenizGud: From The Woods: Your caricatures generalization of large amounts of people as being unwilling to work, or mentally retarded, stems from the strong current of racism towards impoverished blacks that has been around in the dixiecrat/southern republican area forever.

Yeah, well I'm for telling people of all shades to get a farking job. But way to play the race card. It worked so well for Detroit maybe we should use it nationwide.


Numerically, there are far more whites on welfare than nonwhites. Percentage speaking, the distribution is troubling, but based on volume, this is a white persons system.
 
2013-09-24 02:44:11 AM

simplicimus: Numerically, there are far more whites on welfare than nonwhites. Percentage speaking, the distribution is troubling, but based on volume, this is a white persons system.


Drop the rolls to zero. Unambiguous fairness.
 
2013-09-24 02:44:49 AM

SevenizGud: simplicimus: Here's what happens on the macro level: Insurance risk pools increase

Why would I want to be lumped in a risk pool with a bunch of people who smoke and make all those other retarded health care decisions?

Should I also want to be in a car insurance risk pool with 16-year-old boys, because...increased risk pool?


It's how insurance companies work. Blame the actuaries if you don't like the system.
 
2013-09-24 02:45:14 AM

From The Woods: Where there are jobs to give, there are people that will apply for it. Do you agree?


You mean outside of Detroit?
 
2013-09-24 02:46:18 AM

SevenizGud: simplicimus: Numerically, there are far more whites on welfare than nonwhites. Percentage speaking, the distribution is troubling, but based on volume, this is a white persons system.

Drop the rolls to zero. Unambiguous fairness.


Seriously, you're going the "are there no workhouses" route?
 
2013-09-24 02:46:32 AM

SevenizGud: simplicimus: Numerically, there are far more whites on welfare than nonwhites. Percentage speaking, the distribution is troubling, but based on volume, this is a white persons system.

Drop the rolls to zero. Unambiguous fairness.


The bold part is why that will never happen.
 
2013-09-24 02:49:35 AM
A curious paradox defines the politics of welfare in the United States. On the one hand, we are an extraordinarily generous and forgiving people. In 1998 Americans donated more than $170 billion to charity, and we have proven open to giving just about anyone (even, say, a philandering president) a second chance. Americans are willing, even enthusiastic, supporters of vast social programs aimed at protecting individuals from what Franklin Roosevelt called "the hazards and vicissitudes of life."

On the other hand, Americans are more likely to be poor than citizens of other industrial countries, and American government does less than other advanced nations to shield its citizens from poverty. If we're so generous, just why do Americans hate welfare?

This puzzle is at the heart of Martin Gilens's compelling book, and his answer can be summed up in a word: race. Americans dislike the programs most commonly called "welfare"-- especially Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and its successor, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)--not because they are too individualistic to believe in public social provision or too self-interested to pay for it, but because they associate these programs with African Americans. Gilens, a Yale political scientist, traces this connection in the public mind to the mid- to late 1960s, when urban violence drew the spotlight of the national media to ghetto poverty.
But therein lies another paradox. Never have Americans been as tolerant of racial diversity or as supportive of the rights and aspirations of African Americans as in the past few decades (although there is still a long way to travel on both roads). So how can it be that race remains the principal barrier to more generous and universal social policy?
The book's most original contribution is to demonstrate quite ingeniously the distorting impact of the media's focus on urban poverty. Media images of the poor are disproportionately black. While African Americans make up about 30 percent of the poor, about 60 percent of the poor people shown on network television news and depicted in the major newsweeklies between 1988 and 1992 were black. Similarly, the media portray the black poor in a disproportionately negative light. Every single picture in newsweekly stories about the "underclass"--the ghetto poor--between 1950 and 1992 showed African Americans, Gilens finds. In more sympathetic stories about predicaments such as hunger or medical care among the poor, only about one-fourth of the people pictured were black.
As a result of systematic distortion, Americans consistently overestimate the black proportion of the poor and of welfare recipients. More important, however, these slanted images of black poverty evoke age-old stereotypes about African Americans--that they are lazy, unintelligent, and so forth--labeling them as undeserving recipi-ents of public assistance. The white poor more often are seen as striving and hard working, yet helpless in the face of social and economic forces beyond their control.


http://prospect.org/article/why-americans-hate-welfare
 
2013-09-24 02:54:17 AM

SevenizGud: From The Woods: how the modern world which you are enjoying so much came to be

Yeah, I am acutely aware of how I worked hard to get where I am, in spite of a lot of cancers on society demanding I give them my money so they can buy the same shiat as I have, in spite of the fact that they are worthless turds who never did anything useful in their lives.

Just think how much MORE I would be enjoying the modern world if it weren't filled with a bunch of greedy "gimme free healthcare" losers.


Well, going by international quality of life rankings, you'd likely enjoy it quite a bit more if we had socialized universal health care.  Places like Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Iceland, Finland, and Denmark, which have strong socialized safety nets and universal health care systems along with strong capitalist economies, rank ahead of us on that index.
 
2013-09-24 02:55:09 AM

SevenizGud: simplicimus: Here's what happens on the macro level: Insurance risk pools increase

Why would I want to be lumped in a risk pool with a bunch of people who smoke and make all those other retarded health care decisions?

Should I also want to be in a car insurance risk pool with 16-year-old boys, because...increased risk pool?


why would you want...?

Insurance has nothing to do with what you want, it is about providing a large enough pool so that the cost for everyone is low. If you got the insurance you wanted, everyone in your pool would never get sick, never have a car accident, etc. and your rate would be extremely low because no one messes up. But that's not how life works. Accidents happen. People smoke. But even so, when literally everyone pays in to the same system, the cost for everyone is extremely low. This is much better than our current system of healthcare, for instance, and its something the ACA tried to do with the mandate. The problem is, single payer would cost barely any overhead compared to mandated private insurance, whose only function in reality is to rip people off
 
2013-09-24 02:56:55 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Well, going by international quality of life rankings, you'd likely enjoy it quite a bit more if we had socialized universal health care.  Places like Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Iceland, Finland, and Denmark, which have strong socialized safety nets and universal health care systems along with strong capitalist economies, rank ahead of us on that index.


His next comment will be to the effect of "Yeah but there aren't so many stupid blacks in scandinavia" if I have him pegged right.
 
2013-09-24 03:01:13 AM

From The Woods: SevenizGud: simplicimus: Here's what happens on the macro level: Insurance risk pools increase

Why would I want to be lumped in a risk pool with a bunch of people who smoke and make all those other retarded health care decisions?

Should I also want to be in a car insurance risk pool with 16-year-old boys, because...increased risk pool?

why would you want...?

Insurance has nothing to do with what you want, it is about providing a large enough pool so that the cost for everyone is low. If you got the insurance you wanted, everyone in your pool would never get sick, never have a car accident, etc. and your rate would be extremely low because no one messes up. But that's not how life works. Accidents happen. People smoke. But even so, when literally everyone pays in to the same system, the cost for everyone is extremely low. This is much better than our current system of healthcare, for instance, and its something the ACA tried to do with the mandate. The problem is, single payer would cost barely any overhead compared to mandated private insurance, whose only function in reality is to rip people off


Single payer would have the added advantage of much easier cost control.  The government madates that it's accepted everywhere, and sets the reimbursements rates for all procedures, medications, etc, at a reasonable level.  Bingo, you get increased access to care at a lower cost.
 
2013-09-24 03:06:54 AM

SevenizGud: From The Woods: Where there are jobs to give, there are people that will apply for it. Do you agree?

You mean outside of Detroit?


What, a formerly major US city that had a string of bad politicians and was built to provide jobs that evaporated due to variables outside of the control of a local government or populace?

A significant black populace that faced harsh and widespread segregation and discrimination in the 40's, and when they lashed out against it, many of the wealthier whites left taking their white money and their economic source with them?

This is not an excuse for the behavior of some of the black populace in the inner city, but perhaps an explanation. I will blame the individual as well as the circumstances that led to that individual. Just as I will say the same about methhead whites out in the suburbs of Detroit
 
2013-09-24 03:15:33 AM

From The Woods: SevenizGud: From The Woods: Where there are jobs to give, there are people that will apply for it. Do you agree?

You mean outside of Detroit?

What, a formerly major US city that had a string of bad politicians and was built to provide jobs that evaporated due to variables outside of the control of a local government or populace?

A significant black populace that faced harsh and widespread segregation and discrimination in the 40's, and when they lashed out against it, many of the wealthier whites left taking their white money and their economic source with them?

This is not an excuse for the behavior of some of the black populace in the inner city, but perhaps an explanation. I will blame the individual as well as the circumstances that led to that individual. Just as I will say the same about methhead whites out in the suburbs of Detroit


I lived in Dublin for four years, and I saw lots of social dysfunction on the North Side and in South Side neighborhoods like Dolphin's Barn and Tallaght, and that was back in the days when the Celtic Tiger was roaring--yet there were lots of poor, pasty white people doing farked up shiat because they were poor.

Veronica Guerin is unavailable for comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Guerin
 
2013-09-24 03:16:56 AM

From The Woods: SevenizGud: From The Woods: Where there are jobs to give, there are people that will apply for it. Do you agree?

You mean outside of Detroit?

What, a formerly major US city that had a string of bad politicians and was built to provide jobs that evaporated due to variables outside of the control of a local government or populace?

A significant black populace that faced harsh and widespread segregation and discrimination in the 40's, and when they lashed out against it, many of the wealthier whites left taking their white money and their economic source with them?

This is not an excuse for the behavior of some of the black populace in the inner city, but perhaps an explanation. I will blame the individual as well as the circumstances that led to that individual. Just as I will say the same about methhead whites out in the suburbs of Detroit


I've thought that one of the more peculiar things about the Detroit suburbs is that Dearborn's thriving Middle-Eastern population was largely due to their racist mayor Hubbard who hated black people so much he encouraged Arab immigration instead.
 
2013-09-24 03:25:07 AM
SevenIsGud has trolled this thread right into the ground.

What a debacle
 
2013-09-24 03:40:40 AM

SevenizGud: simplicimus: Social Security and Medicare are self funded. What else has talk radio told you?

Want to know how I know you don't know what paygo means?


Want to know how I I know that empathy and compassion are alien concepts to you?
 
2013-09-24 03:42:39 AM
Who is Bob?
 
2013-09-24 03:46:40 AM

kg2095: What happened in the 1980s?


myggm.org
 
2013-09-24 03:50:00 AM

cretinbob: kg2095: What happened in the 1980s?

[myggm.org image 800x556]


www.crawlsf.com
 
2013-09-24 04:06:21 AM

HighOnCraic: cretinbob: kg2095: What happened in the 1980s?

[myggm.org image 800x556]


Are they not men?
 
2013-09-24 04:09:37 AM
Jeez... I've seen some pretty big assholes say some pretty messed-up shiat on Fark over the years, but this thread is in serious contention for Most Despicable Troll Evar award.

I don't normally wish anyone ill, but I'm pretty close to hoping a particular person here reaps the fruit of his words in the form of a very painful and expensive brand of ass-cancer.
 
2013-09-24 06:17:10 AM
The GOP is going to lose this fight and look like even bigger assholes going into the midterms... Well done, Republicans.
 
2013-09-24 07:33:35 AM

kg2095: SevenizGud: LordJiro: So, if someone who can't afford a hospital bill breaks their arm or gets sick, they should either go bankrupt or die, right?

Preferably both.

I was thinking of defending you against Felgraf's assertion that you are a terrible human being. Then I read this.


That is why I have him/her farkied as "Would make Satan blush"
 
2013-09-24 07:52:08 AM

Felgraf: SevenizGud: 12349876: Otherwise, it's better for everyone to have skin in the game taking care of each other.

Yeah, I'm for utopia too.

Meanwhile, in the real world....

In the real world, there was a government shutdown in 1995 and, rather than your magical government-free utopia appearing, people got PISSED.

In the real world, responsible people who work *hard* can still get shafted by sudden, unexpected medical expenses.

In the real world, you are a terrible human being. I pray that you are never put in the position that you would like to put the poor in, where they must choose between medicine and food, fast death and slow death. Even if the world might be a better place if you *were* put in such a position.


Well, you're a better person than I.  Wouldn't bother me in the least.  His family....yes.  Him.....no way, fark him.
 
2013-09-24 08:14:32 AM

keylock71: The GOP is going to lose this fight and look like even bigger assholes going into the midterms... Well done, Republicans.


And yet people will still sit out the 2014 midterms and the Republicans could still win both the House and the Senate.

If you don't vote, you are endorsing the Tea Party. You are saying that you want the rabid and motivated morons to decide who runs the country.
 
2013-09-24 09:05:38 AM

simplicimus: Dimensio: simplicimus: When did the popularity of a law become a meaningful criticism? ACA was passed by both Houses, signed by the President and upheld by the Supreme Courtsimplicimus: Dimensio: simplicimus: When did the popularity of a law become a meaningful criticism? ACA was passed by both Houses, signed by the President and upheld by the Supreme Court. It doesn't get more legitimate than that.

Tea Party activists insist that the law is Unconstitutional, therefore funding it would violate the Constitution, based upon their reasoning.

So the Supreme Court no longer has any say as to what is Constitutional? Strange world these people live in.

. It doesn't get more legitimate than that.

Tea Party activists insist that the law is Unconstitutional, therefore funding it would violate the Constitution, based upon their reasoning.

So the Supreme Court no longer has any say as to what is Constitutional? Strange world these people live in.



Senator Rand Paul does not believe so, making him the intellectual equivalent of individuals who claim that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution does not protect an individual right to keep and bear arms unconnected to membership in a militia.
 
2013-09-24 09:34:04 AM

NateAsbestos: SevenIsGud has trolled  "different opinioned" this thread right into the ground.

What a debacle


/FTFD
//Keep giving him $5 a month, why don't cha
 
2013-09-24 09:42:24 AM
Bob Crane.
 
2013-09-24 10:21:51 AM

twat_waffle: Aristocles: It would also be avoidable if the dems and BOB stood with the Republicans on this one and acted in the interests of, and in accordance with the will of, the people.

Hint: Cruz isn't doing this because he supports Obamacare.

Bob?

[i.huffpost.com image 850x593]
"And over here we're going to build a happy little troll..."


In it's greatest time of need, America will be able to call on the one man that can save them, the one man who was to become the legend to save all that is this country. He will arise from his grave on a happy little hill and save us all.

bobross.com

Happy Trees, motherfarker, DO YOU UNDERSTAND
 
2013-09-24 10:26:51 AM

SevenizGud: Social security should consist of you not stealing my money, and me using what I don't spend for my retirement.


Just out of curiosity, how do you think social security works now?
 
2013-09-24 12:06:57 PM
Can you imagine if you fell into a coma around 1995 and awoke today?   You would see the Democrats pushing for and passing the Republican law for healthcare reform and the Rebublicans fighting tooth and nail to repeal their OWN plan.

I honestly can't tell if the right is so epically genius that they've pulled the left to the right center or if they are just insane.   They can't possibly be this crazy, can they?

/ If Prez Obama was white and had a -R next to his name, he would be considered the greatest Republican president since Lincoln.

//Going back to read the rest of this yummy thread.
 
2013-09-24 12:10:15 PM

maweimer9: I honestly can't tell if the right is so epically genius that they've pulled the left to the right center or if they are just insane.


I look at it another way.  The Dem's shift to the right began, in my mind, under Clinton, when he hijacked the Republican position for welfare reform.  That really seemed to piss off the Republicans, who hadn't yet mobilized as a force to vote against their own proposals.

I think the need to be "to the right" of the Democrats on historical issues forced them to the derp side, as the Democrats happily moved their position to moderate.
 
2013-09-24 12:22:35 PM

Mentat: I plonked Aristocles two days ago, but I've seen no effect.  Thanks y'all.


On the Tools page, there's a checkbox labeled "Ignore posts from unignored users that mention users on your ignore list (Exact match of bolded names)".  It doesn't always work, but it's useful for when people feed the trolls.
 
2013-09-24 01:51:55 PM

HighOnCraic: cretinbob: kg2095: What happened in the 1980s?

[myggm.org image 800x556]

[www.crawlsf.com image 432x288]


That was the 70's although I guess you  could say they hit in 1980. I love me some Devo.
 
2013-09-24 02:21:55 PM

soporific: keylock71: The GOP is going to lose this fight and look like even bigger assholes going into the midterms... Well done, Republicans.

And yet people will still sit out the 2014 midterms and the Republicans could still win both the House and the Senate.

If you don't vote, you are endorsing the Tea Party. You are saying that you want the rabid and motivated morons to decide who runs the country.


Sadly, this is true... The GOP, now more than ever, is relying on the laziness and the ignorance of Americans.
 
2013-09-24 08:40:43 PM

vernonFL: Keep laughing, Libs.

We'll see if you are still laughing in 2014 when the Republican win big majorities in the House and Senate, and then in 2016 when Marco Rubio wins the Presidential election in a landslide. The first bill he'll propose is the repeal of Obamacare.

We'll see who is laughing then.


Hell I'm laughing right now, just reading this.
 
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