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(Telegraph)   "The superhighway to hell is paved with the good intentions of dilettante rockstars whose attitude to aid has kept much of Africa under the boot of foreign powers"   (blogs.telegraph.co.uk) divider line 114
    More: Obvious, Bono, white guilts, Fela Kuti, Paul Wolfowitz, Jesse Helms, Bob Geldof, shuffling  
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6593 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2013 at 3:46 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



114 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-23 03:49:33 PM
No stop signs nor speed limits????
 
2013-09-23 03:50:33 PM
. . . .on a last chance powerdrive!
 
2013-09-23 03:50:59 PM
I never considered Pat Robertson a dilettante rock star but yes he has done more than enough to rape and pillage Africa.
 
2013-09-23 03:51:16 PM
It's interesting how "white guilt" means something different in Britain.
 
2013-09-23 03:51:34 PM
They don't have (the) Jack to prove..

That 'boot' they reference could walk all over you people.
 
2013-09-23 03:52:27 PM
Yes, yes, we can be quite certain that aid, and not a host of economic, military, social, and environmental conditions cripple the stability of Africa.  Lets ignore that things have genuinely been getting better there for decades, and that digging out of a giant whole centuries in the making is easy, and failures can be entirely blamed on misguided attempts to help.

Now, listen to my entirely informed opinion about race relations and affirmative action in the U.S.
 
2013-09-23 03:53:03 PM
So Bono is the male Mother Teresa?
 
2013-09-23 03:54:33 PM

Ishkur: So Bono is the male Mother Teresa?


At least Mother Teresa intentionally tortured people, and spent more time evangelizing to the people she was supposed to be helping than helping them.

No wait.
 
2013-09-23 03:55:46 PM
Another empty political rant long on butthurt and entirely lacking in specifics.
 
2013-09-23 03:56:04 PM
Well, somebody really hates Bono. I wonder what his take on George Clooney is? Or maybe Angelina Jolie?
 
2013-09-23 03:56:49 PM
Okay, as much as  I love Bono-bashing (seriously, I do), it's hard to take serious from Mr. Pouty-face
blogs.telegraph.co.uk
 
2013-09-23 03:56:51 PM
Too
Many
Words
 
2013-09-23 03:57:29 PM
What? Horseshiat. I'm no fan of Bono, but let's be honest - Africa keeps Africa down. My complaint with Bono and his ilk is how they do far less good than they get credit for. Keeping Africa  down, though? Get the fark out of here.

TIA, eh Danny?
 
2013-09-23 03:57:50 PM
Just another whore in the capitalist gangbang.
 
2013-09-23 03:58:07 PM

endmile: Well, somebody really hates Bono. I wonder what his take on George Clooney is? Or maybe Angelina Jolie?


A lot of conservatives despise Bono.  Daring to suggest helping people helps people more than bombing them is a serious crime in their books.
 
2013-09-23 03:58:17 PM
Bono to concert crowd:  "Every time I clap my hands a child in Africa dies..."
Man in crowd:  "Then stop clapping your hands, ya bastard!"
 
2013-09-23 04:00:02 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: What? Horseshiat. I'm no fan of Bono, but let's be honest - Africa keeps Africa down.


Anyone really paying attention to the details sees that areas of deadly poverty, disease, and war are actually shrinking within the continent.  It's not stable, but it is recovering from the dictators that followed in the wake of decolonizing.
 
2013-09-23 04:00:13 PM
Accusing all rock stars of hurting, rather than helping, seems to be painting things with too broad brush. I'm pretty sure that Toto guy just blessed the rains down there, and that sounds like a pretty nice thing. Unless they had floods from too much rain because of all the blessings....
 
2013-09-23 04:00:18 PM
It's not just pasty faced, ivory tower journalists who think Africa is too dependent on foreign aid
http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_mwenda_takes_a_new_look_at_africa.ht ml
 
2013-09-23 04:01:28 PM
Well, Bono is a do-gooder.  And Conservatives hate do-gooders.  Because on the other side of that do-good coin is the fat stinking idea that other people do bad.  And conservatives are not like fancy pants people like Bono.  So to them, Bono has just suggested that they do bad things.  More importantly, he also suggests that God and Jesus aren't real.  Because in their mind, the world is exactly the way God wants it.  Otherwise, he would change it.  See?  It really is that simple.
 
2013-09-23 04:01:38 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Okay, as much as  I love Bono-bashing (seriously, I do), it's hard to take serious from Mr. Pouty-face
[blogs.telegraph.co.uk image 300x300]


Seriously, other than "Bono is bad," what the hell was the article trying to say?  What is it exactly that Bono, or any other rock star with a cause, does counter-productively, and how, exactly is it counter-productive?

Bono (or any other celebrity involved in promoting charity or international aid) may be arrogant as hell, but what has that got to do with anything?  I want to hear about his actions, not his attitude.
 
2013-09-23 04:02:33 PM
So the endless corruption has nothing to do with Africa being a persistent shiat hole?
 
2013-09-23 04:03:34 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: So the endless corruption has nothing to do with Africa being a persistent shiat hole?


That's a cop-out.  What causes the corruption?
 
2013-09-23 04:05:24 PM
Hell itself is paved with do-gooders
 
2013-09-23 04:06:22 PM
i work for the state department and have heard this about AID also. what it does is give the rich and the powerful more money to keep power and money. it allows a country to not focus on the welfare of their people and let someone else worry about it. they can spend the money they do have on keeping power.

i'm not saying they're right but  that's how someone explained it to me. i'm a computer person doing everything but the political, economic, and consular stuff.
 
2013-09-23 04:06:32 PM
Soooo...they need to be more boot-strappy??
 
2013-09-23 04:07:16 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: What? Horseshiat. I'm no fan of Bono, but let's be honest - Africa keeps Africa down. My complaint with Bono and his ilk is how they do far less good than they get credit for. Keeping Africa down, though? Get the fark out of here.


Maybe you missed how all the 1st world countries gave Africa loans it could never repay? The debt from that has been holding them back more than anything else. Next move is to punish them for burning coal with carbon taxes when they can't afford any other power sources. Whitey just won't leave them alone.

And regarding Bono, well, fark Bono.
 
2013-09-23 04:07:34 PM

a particular individual: Another empty political rant long on butthurt and entirely lacking in specifics.


There are actually some pretty solid arguments against the current foreign aid model but it's an institutionalized policy of rich 'first-world' countries, not pop stars.
 
2013-09-23 04:08:14 PM
White people caused, and still cause, ALL the problems in Africa.
 
2013-09-23 04:08:32 PM
I have limited respect for the opinions of a rock star who ran away from his home country to avoid taxes that could have helped his compatriots.
 
2013-09-23 04:09:31 PM
That article sucked.  Whatever happened to clearly stating your argument and then following it up with supporting points?

"Bono sucks and is wrong about Africa because............... [Sound of crickets chirping]"
 
2013-09-23 04:09:40 PM
...says the newspaper preferred by elderly Colonel Blimps who think that Africa was much better off under colonial rule.
 
2013-09-23 04:09:46 PM
Conservatives hate Bono for being inadequately informed, and academics with a lifetime of research under their belt for "living in an ivory tower"...

...it's almost like conservatives are against certain things no matter how little or how much evidence supports it. Shocking...
 
2013-09-23 04:09:59 PM
We're the reason little mujumbo in Ethiopia starves.

See; we give mujumbo's country so much free food that they don't bother growing any of their own. They grow stuff like: poppies, tobacco, cotton and other cash crops. So, in years when the price of said crops drop; little mujumbo starves.
 
2013-09-23 04:11:44 PM

karmaceutical: Well, Bono is a do-gooder.  And Conservatives hate do-gooders.  Because on the other side of that do-good coin is the fat stinking idea that other people do bad.  And conservatives are not like fancy pants people like Bono.  So to them, Bono has just suggested that they do bad things.  More importantly, he also suggests that God and Jesus aren't real.  Because in their mind, the world is exactly the way God wants it.  Otherwise, he would change it.  See?  It really is that simple.


You misspelled attention whore.  Three times.
 
2013-09-23 04:11:49 PM

bump: No stop signs nor speed limits????


Livin' easy, livin' free!
 
2013-09-23 04:13:28 PM

iheartscotch: See; we give mujumbo's country so much free food that they don't bother growing any of their own.


Really, they aren't interested in growing any food to sell? Maybe starting a business? None of them?

Golly, i'm learning lots about African people today from you guys.
 
2013-09-23 04:13:35 PM
I never understand that phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Let's say I want to pay someone to give some African villagers clean water, is that the road to hell? What about vaccinating poor kids from disease?

The main problem is good intentions matched with naivety. Throwing money at African politicians (or frankly any politician) results in them spending it on a farking big house, a fleet of Mercedes and hookers, rather than on the people.
 
2013-09-23 04:14:15 PM

ikanreed: Yes, yes, we can be quite certain that aid, and not a host of economic, military, social, and environmental conditions cripple the stability of Africa.  Lets ignore that things have genuinely been getting better there for decades, and that digging out of a giant whole centuries in the making is easy, and failures can be entirely blamed on misguided attempts to help.


... a bit of cut and paste, since I've written about this previously ...

Frankly, the way in which we have treated those in the underdeveloped countries should have been made criminal. We should have focused on education with the end goal of a self-sustaining culture. Instead of education, we've provided bibles. Instead of medical training, we've taught them that condoms are evil and vaccines are just tricks by white men to infect them with aids. Instead of expert guidance, GMO crops, fertilizer and pesticides, and machinery to cultivate crops, we've given them food packets. Instead of training them to be doctors, surgeons, nurses, mechanics, lawyers, programmers, architects, - anything really - we have made sure that their death rates go down - especially childbirth, that their average age increases, and we do it all with supplies and techniques that they cannot replicate, and provide them no salable or productive skills in the meanwhile.

What we have done is vastly inflated the problem - by themselves, a poor balance was established; many died - especially young - and those who lived had short lives, but now we have a massive dependent population that lacks the skills and resources required to support themselves in a reasonable way, and they're living longer, with less than ever. In effect, we have traded a few thousand lives for a few million and multiplied the net total suffering in the world more than a hundredfold and it's growing exponentially.

Outside of fantastic natural resources (like oil, that'd help a lot!), the only realistic way to fix this problem is with abundant education, and right now, the easiest way to do that is via the internet. You don't even need real guidance. Sugata Mitra has shown that just plugging in a computer into a wall of a rural village results in children teaching themselves english and learning all on their own, and it continued when he gave them internet access.

With education, they can focus on maintaining a subsistence-level agricultural life required at this point to maintain their current populations.  Eventually this will need to be well developed enough to support a white collar populace, as outside of intellectual capital, many of these regions lack real natural resources, which means their best bet will be to leapfrog the industrial era entirely, and move directly into modern technology.

However, they can't even get that first step when they still have to worry about starvation and disease brought due to inadequate infrastructure. We're talking about populations who's primary cause of death is diarrhea often due to malaria or giardia (which indicates people are literally living in their own filth).

It sounds harsh, but if we look at long term reduction of human suffering as a real goal, the right thing to do is cut off all food aid and non-trival medical services, let the population die back down to levels that can be self-sustained, and provide tools, knowledge, and training for free.  It'll take several generations, but eventually (and speedily by relative comparison) their culture will catch up with the rest of the world so that the same population today will be sustainable, without it acting like an anchor around their neck.
 
2013-09-23 04:14:40 PM

ikanreed: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: So the endless corruption has nothing to do with Africa being a persistent shiat hole?

That's a cop-out.  What causes the corruption?


Culture, tolerance, lack of Rule of Law.  It was there before the aid and donations, it is there without it.
 
2013-09-23 04:15:04 PM

ciberido: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Okay, as much as  I love Bono-bashing (seriously, I do), it's hard to take serious from Mr. Pouty-face
[blogs.telegraph.co.uk image 300x300]

Seriously, other than "Bono is bad," what the hell was the article trying to say?  What is it exactly that Bono, or any other rock star with a cause, does counter-productively, and how, exactly is it counter-productive?

Bono (or any other celebrity involved in promoting charity or international aid) may be arrogant as hell, but what has that got to do with anything?  I want to hear about his actions, not his attitude.


Lack of critical thinking.  It's the same reason providing homeless people just enough to get by often leads to perpetuating their homelessness.  If you send 100,000 mosquito nets to Africa, local manufacturers of mosquito nets are forced to fold.  Now they're  more reliant on foreign aid.  If you flood a country with foreign grown food, local producers suffer, and they again become  more reliant on foreign aid.  They see hungry people or needy people and assume that is the problem.  It's not the problem, it's just a symptom of the problem.  Treating the symptom exacerbates the actual problem.

The truth is a lot of countries need a little advice and time for change.  They don't need foreign celebrities stepping into the process, getting their publicity, and then disappearing to let others deal with the consequences.
 
2013-09-23 04:15:39 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Hell itself is paved with do-gooders


Does that mean your Heaven is full of villains?

/explains a lot
 
2013-09-23 04:15:42 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Maybe you missed how all the 1st world countries gave Africa loans it could never repay? The debt from that has been holding them back more than anything else.

...
And regarding Bono, well, fark Bono.


Here's where I show you don't know what you're talking about:

Since 1999, Bono has become increasingly involved in campaigning for third-world debt relief...
...

On 3 April 2005, Bono paid a personal tribute to John Paul II and called him "a street fighter and a wily campaigner on behalf of the world's poor. We would never have gotten the debts of 23 countries completely cancelled without him."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bono
 
2013-09-23 04:16:13 PM

iheartscotch: We're the reason little mujumbo in Ethiopia starves.

See; we give mujumbo's country so much free food that they don't bother growing any of their own. They grow stuff like: poppies, tobacco, cotton and other cash crops. So, in years when the price of said crops drop; little mujumbo starves.


Whenever I'm trolling as an ignoramus, I being my sentences with "see" or "clearly".

There's a reason I do this.
 
2013-09-23 04:16:21 PM

mrinfoguy: White people caused, and still cause, ALL the problems in Africa.



www.afropop.org
"mrinfoguy is 100% correct!"
 
2013-09-23 04:17:42 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Okay, as much as  I love Bono-bashing (seriously, I do), it's hard to take serious from Mr. Pouty-face
[blogs.telegraph.co.uk image 300x300]


Yeah, my douche bag radar went off the minute I saw that photo, too.

Mic's Grandmother: "What kind of an asshole are you?
Mic (making that face in the picture): "Well, I dunno."
 
2013-09-23 04:19:19 PM

J. Frank Parnell: iheartscotch: See; we give mujumbo's country so much free food that they don't bother growing any of their own.

Really, they aren't interested in growing any food to sell? Maybe starting a business? None of them?

Golly, i'm learning lots about African people today from you guys.


Why bother growing food? The price of staple crops, like rice, corn and wheat, are so low that making a profit is impossible.

I do like doctors without borders and engineers without borders; they actually help fix some of the problems; rather than, you know, compounding them.

/ we need to wean them off of the whole free food thing.
 
2013-09-23 04:19:44 PM

Mytch: The truth is a lot of countries need a little advice and time for change. They don't need foreign celebrities stepping into the process, getting their publicity, and then disappearing to let others deal with the consequences.


They don't need foreign anything stepping into the process. No matter how much you may think your country shiats gold nuggets and can do no wrong, ultimately it will serve its own interests. All the debt which was foisted onto Africa was no well intentioned mistake. They used it to gain access to diamonds and other resources, which if left in the hands of African people and their companies would have helped them greatly economically.
 
2013-09-23 04:21:38 PM
Bono is a representative of one of the the worst aspects of the modern White Man's Burden. They demean those in need into less than real people, portraying them as helpless children who need help and guidance in order to survive. They continue the stereotype of a destitute starving Africa because it fits their vision of the world where they're helping those poor Africans who can't take care of themselves. There are many people in Africa who need help. That help should come through foreign investment and loan forgiveness. What they don't need is self-righteous foreign celebrities going around pretending to be heroes.

What this article was trying to say, I have no idea.
 
2013-09-23 04:21:56 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: ikanreed: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: So the endless corruption has nothing to do with Africa being a persistent shiat hole?

That's a cop-out.  What causes the corruption?

Culture, tolerance, lack of Rule of Law.  It was there before the aid and donations, it is there without it.


Yep, Africa has a monotonic culture, and governments that are all the same.  Sorry, your answer smells like racism, and doesn't address countries that are actually doing pretty well.  It seems like what someone would say if they just saw a continent of primitives.  I don't know that racism caused you to form that conclusion, but it fails the smell test.
 
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