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(Kotaku)   "Last week my store sold over a thousand copies of GTA V, at least a hundred of which were sold to parents for children who could barely even see over my counter." WTF is wrong with you parents??   (kotaku.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, GTA V, Grand Theft Auto, ESRB, counters, parents  
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3037 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Sep 2013 at 5:24 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-24 04:11:00 PM  

rpm: Somaticasual: Obviously not, since anything would include explosives, drugs, etc.Keeping the influence away from kids is the goal, and the laws and ratings are there for that purpose.It doesn't matter whether or not it's a minority or a majority.  This has nothing to do with religion, stop shifting your argument. it also doesn't matter what I support past that, since the  laws are targeting bad parenting ostensibly. This is apparently what you just don't get - some parents will not police themselves. It's why lawn darts are banned, etc.

I'm not shifting the argument, you're blind to the flaws in yours.

OK, video games are a bad influence and should be regulated.
So's religion.
So's TV.
Hot dogs are dangerous. So is honey.
So is ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN NAME.

Why is regulation of other things not desirable when it is for video games? Show your work, no special pleading allowed.

If bad parenting is the problem, why not just require licenses for children? After all, a little restriction on freedom is nothing for the sake of future generations. Make sure only the ones that are able to parent actually do.


If you can't see any difference between a violent video game that encourages torture, drug use, murder, etc - and religion, hot dogs, and TV - then no amount of arguing is going to correct a fundamental flaw in your belief.  You can't outlaw religion for first amendment issues, but you can regulate video games since no harm will come to the child if they're deprived of it. Past that, please never have kids.
 
2013-09-24 04:53:40 PM  

Somaticasual: rpm: Somaticasual: Obviously not, since anything would include explosives, drugs, etc.Keeping the influence away from kids is the goal, and the laws and ratings are there for that purpose.It doesn't matter whether or not it's a minority or a majority.  This has nothing to do with religion, stop shifting your argument. it also doesn't matter what I support past that, since the  laws are targeting bad parenting ostensibly. This is apparently what you just don't get - some parents will not police themselves. It's why lawn darts are banned, etc.

I'm not shifting the argument, you're blind to the flaws in yours.

OK, video games are a bad influence and should be regulated.
So's religion.
So's TV.
Hot dogs are dangerous. So is honey.
So is ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN NAME.

Why is regulation of other things not desirable when it is for video games? Show your work, no special pleading allowed.

If bad parenting is the problem, why not just require licenses for children? After all, a little restriction on freedom is nothing for the sake of future generations. Make sure only the ones that are able to parent actually do.

If you can't see any difference between a violent video game that encourages torture, drug use, murder, etc - and religion, hot dogs, and TV - then no amount of arguing is going to correct a fundamental flaw in your belief.  You can't outlaw religion for first amendment issues, but you can regulate video games since no harm will come to the child if they're deprived of it. Past that, please never have kids.


Parents should definitely pay attention to what they're buying their children, but it's their job, not yours.  Nor is it the government's place to do so, especially when the evidence suggesting that there's harm or a correlation to problems in society is significantly lacking.

Please explain how the game 'encourages' torture, murder and drug use?  Also, why is the amendment protecting choice of religion any more important than the amendment protecting against the abridging of free speech?  Hint: it's the same amendment.

Additionally, you said harm will come to children if they're deprived of religion.  What harm is that, exactly?  Your argument (no matter how logical it is or isn't) is missing some significant facts.  Instead, you're assuming that your opinions are fact.

And to be clear, after playing GTA V, I do wish some parents would be a little more careful about what they buy their snowflakes.  That could, however, be because I'm butt hurt that I couldn't watch the Simpsons when all my other friends were allowed to because it was a 'bad influence.'
 
2013-09-24 05:01:43 PM  
rpm:
Hot dogs are dangerous. So is honey.

Agree with most but you are wrong on the honey!  It truly is a gift to us all - one of the few foods that doesn't become toxic over time.
 
2013-09-24 05:02:50 PM  

pjfry: Parents should definitely pay attention to what they're buying their children, but it's their job, not yours. Nor is it the government's place to do so, especially when the evidence suggesting that there's harm or a correlation to problems in society is significantly lacking.


AGAIN - the laws/regs are there to address the parents that just don't care.

Please explain how the game 'encourages' torture, murder and drug use? Also, why is the amendment protecting choice of religion any more important than the amendment protecting against the abridging of free speech? Hint: it's the same amendment.

You'll have ask the supreme court why they've made the distinctions that they have on free speech.

Additionally, you said harm will come to children if they're deprived of religion. What harm is that, exactly? Your argument (no matter how logical it is or isn't) is missing some significant facts. Instead, you're assuming that your opinions are fact.

nowhere have i said any harm will come to children if they're deprived of religion. The ONLY thing I said is that  no harm will come to child if you deprive them of a video game - and at that point, any chance of harm from the video game outweighs the kids' desire to play the game in a risk management sense.. And I've stated that it's my opinion that the regulations make perfect sense vs. RPM's whole "live and let live approach".

And to be clear, after playing GTA V, I do wish some parents would be a little more careful about what they buy their snowflakes. That could, however, be because I'm butt hurt that I couldn't watch the Simpsons when all my other friends were allowed to because it was a 'bad influence.'

Fair enough, and i'm right there in the sheltered class myself as far as the simpsons went in the early 90s. Actually never understood that, since the early seasons had decent moral lessons in reality.
 
2013-09-24 05:53:55 PM  

Somaticasual: pjfry: Parents should definitely pay attention to what they're buying their children, but it's their job, not yours. Nor is it the government's place to do so, especially when the evidence suggesting that there's harm or a correlation to problems in society is significantly lacking.

AGAIN - the laws/regs are there to address the parents that just don't care.

Please explain how the game 'encourages' torture, murder and drug use? Also, why is the amendment protecting choice of religion any more important than the amendment protecting against the abridging of free speech? Hint: it's the same amendment.

You'll have ask the supreme court why they've made the distinctions that they have on free speech.

Additionally, you said harm will come to children if they're deprived of religion. What harm is that, exactly? Your argument (no matter how logical it is or isn't) is missing some significant facts. Instead, you're assuming that your opinions are fact.

nowhere have i said any harm will come to children if they're deprived of religion. The ONLY thing I said is that  no harm will come to child if you deprive them of a video game - and at that point, any chance of harm from the video game outweighs the kids' desire to play the game in a risk management sense.. And I've stated that it's my opinion that the regulations make perfect sense vs. RPM's whole "live and let live approach".

And to be clear, after playing GTA V, I do wish some parents would be a little more careful about what they buy their snowflakes. That could, however, be because I'm butt hurt that I couldn't watch the Simpsons when all my other friends were allowed to because it was a 'bad influence.'

Fair enough, and i'm right there in the sheltered class myself as far as the simpsons went in the early 90s. Actually never understood that, since the early seasons had decent moral lessons in reality.


The Simpsons were probably the only tv family shown actually going to church that wasn't specifically a show about religion or angels.
 
2013-09-24 06:20:09 PM  

Somaticasual: You realize most of your counter-argument is irrelevant, right?


No, it's not, because you're ignoring the fundamental points.

(Violent) video games don't exist in a vacuum. Violence is ubiquitous in contemporary society: games, movies, music, TV, even the news. It's everywhere, and nobody can avoid it without going completely neo-primitive and off-the-grid. The negative impact of violent video games?  it's not limited to video games, the problem is with violent media  altogether. Video games make an easy target, but they're the proverbial drop in a much,  much bigger bucket that's big enough it practically encapsulates the entire of our society.

That means, from the onset, the onus is on parents to make sure when -- not if,  when -- their kids are invariably exposed to it, they're capable of understanding it in its proper context, and that violent media is  not to be emulated nor should it strongly influence their beliefs and values as they develop.

And, a word on that "when". You brought up tobacco yourself. I'll add to that alcohol, porn, sex, and illegal drugs. None of those things are remotely legal for kids to have, yet they get their hands on them invariably  anyway. Prohibition does not work, even for kids -- if a kid wants something bad enough they'll find a way to get it, in the home or not, and the fastest and surest way to make sure a kid wants something is to tell them they can't have it.  Period. Adding one more thing to that list -- violent video games -- won't magically change that simple fact.

Parents can't watch their children twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, from the day they're born until the day they turn the age of majority, and even making the attempt is  seriously not conducive to that child's mental health. At some point, kids have to learn how to be functioning, independent adults, and if society has learned anything it's that helicopter parenting retards that process, even introduces very real potential for blowback. What parents  can do is communicate with their damn kids and raise them with an understanding their choices vis-a-vis certain activities have ramifications, what those ramifications are, how to resist peer pressure and make informed decisions for themselves on participating in those activities, and engage in those activities responsibly and safely. That applies to violent media consumption, including video games, as well.

Now, going back to video games themselves, do you seriously think shiatty, neglectful, parents pay attention to ratings systems and regulations? Do you think parents are  only neglectful, if they are, in exclusively that sphere? Those are tools that good parents, and only good parents, use to control their children's media consumption  when and where applicable. For the crappy parents, video game ratings are just another layer of bullshiat retail bureaucracy.  It doesn't help the fundamental problem.

Good parenting isn't just a solution that "should" be the case. It's the ONLY viable long-term solution to this problem.
 
2013-09-24 07:21:43 PM  

rpm: Somaticasual: You still haven't answered my question, rpm.
Again - and with no mincing words, CAN YOU SAY WITH 100% INTELLECTUAL HONESTY THAT VIDEO GAMES ARE PERFECTLY SAFE FOR CHILDREN?

No. Can you say with 100% intellectual honesty it's significant issues among significant numbers?

Bad parenting is far more impactful than video games. Do you support regulation of child bearing? If not, why not?

Religion has obviously done more damage to children than just about anything else. Do you support its regulation? If not, why not?

CAN YOU SAY WITH 100% INTELLECTUAL HONESTY THAT ANYTHING IS PERFECTLY SAFE FOR CHILDREN?


thumbnails.hulu.com
Agrees
 
2013-09-24 09:05:49 PM  
If you want open world gaming to play alongside your kid, Disney Infinity is pretty darn good.

Cruising around the Caribbean as Jack Sparrow & Barbossa was fun (really enjoyed the ship to ship combat, even if it's simplistic... it's still amusing). The Incredibles has been pretty good as well. I haven't played much Monsters University, although my kids have.

And the Tron Highway download from Disney is great. Difficulty is cranked up from the wee kiddie playsets. Needed the glider backpack from Incredibles to get past the first obstacle, and the Pirate Bombs (from Pirates of the Caribbean) certainly helped with the nasty robots.
 
2013-09-25 04:58:30 AM  

Willas Tyrell: In front of both of them I asked the kid to tell his mom how you replenished health. He started squirming, then eventually told her about the street hookers. She was pretty stunned.


Um, why didn't he just say "you go to the hospital and get health packs"? Calling bullshiat.
 
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