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(Chattanooga Times Free Press)   Tennessee high school cancels field trip for world studies course after parents discover that one of the field trips will be to a mosque. Accuses school district of "promoting Islam"   (timesfreepress.com) divider line 327
    More: Asinine, Tennessee High School, Islam, field trips, school districts, working time, mosques  
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6505 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2013 at 1:59 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-23 12:21:28 PM
The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.
 
2013-09-23 12:29:33 PM

mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.


Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?
 
2013-09-23 12:33:16 PM
When I lived in Nashville for a while back in the '90s, Mormons wanted to build a temple there. The city fought tooth and nail to make sure they couldn't do it, like rezoning the property, etc. And that's the farking Mormons,not Muslims.

/There's a Baptist church on every corner there, and I bet some have 2.
 
2013-09-23 12:34:02 PM

mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.


Yes, your added derp is a bonus.

/I'm guessing you think this has something to do with 'separation of church and state'
//It doesn't
///It's education, plain and simple
 
2013-09-23 12:35:50 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?


Religion is a hot button issue for any government institution. They should have known that at least one parent was going to raise a stink about it. Should it be this way? No. But it shows a lack of intelligence on the side of the school to even plan this kind of a trip.

If the kids want to visit a mosques I'm sure they will be happy to provide a free tour. The one near my house has tours and meet and greets every weekend. Free of charge
 
2013-09-23 12:38:55 PM

scottydoesntknow: I'm guessing


Good for you. Wrong, but good for you!
 
2013-09-23 12:40:00 PM
I'm not saying all people from Tennessee are backwards, inbred, xenophobic, racists, but most people from Tennessee are backwards, inbred, xenophobic, racists.
And I know a few people from that state.
 
2013-09-23 12:40:51 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?

Religion is a hot button issue for any government institution. They should have known that at least one parent was going to raise a stink about it. Should it be this way? No. But it shows a lack of intelligence on the side of the school to even plan this kind of a trip.

If the kids want to visit a mosques I'm sure they will be happy to provide a free tour. The one near my house has tours and meet and greets every weekend. Free of charge


Sigh. I know it revolves around derpy parent's terrified that their precious nuggets might be exposed to conflicting worldviews, but this is something the schools should be challenging head-on. There is a severe lack of critical thinking being taught many places in the U.S., and many kids won't get opportunities like this if it's left up to the parents.
 
2013-09-23 12:41:07 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.

Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?


This was a "World Studies" class, not a "Religious Studies" class.
 
2013-09-23 12:41:26 PM

mediablitz: scottydoesntknow: I'm guessing

Good for you. Wrong, but good for you!


So then why not?

You said they shouldn't be visiting any religious institutions in a class that focuses specifically on religion. Why not?
 
2013-09-23 12:41:57 PM
Derp. Parents, not parent's. Should've edited in an education thread.
 
2013-09-23 12:43:04 PM

mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.


It is perfectly legal and educationally desirable to take public school students to areas of worship for the purpose of learning about religious cultures and practices. Scholars of religion in secular state universities both organize field trips and invite guest speakers to their classes. for this very purpose. All the time. Learning about how people do culture is an indispensable part of a systemic education. Religious Literacy is not rationally optional.
 
2013-09-23 12:43:14 PM

scottydoesntknow: mediablitz: scottydoesntknow: I'm guessing

Good for you. Wrong, but good for you!

So then why not?

You said they shouldn't be visiting any religious institutions in a class that focuses specifically on religion. Why not?


Wait, scratch that. My bad, it is a world studies class, not specifically a religion one.

Sorry!

But point still stands that them learning about religions (but not being indoctrinated or forced into one) is not a bad thing at all and should be encouraged.
 
2013-09-23 12:44:01 PM

mediablitz: UrukHaiGuyz: mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.

Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?

This was a "World Studies" class, not a "Religious Studies" class.


Good thing there's only one religion the world round, then? No student ever benefited from a narrower curriculum.
 
2013-09-23 12:45:27 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: But it shows a lack of intelligence on the side of the school to even plan this kind of a trip.


No it does not. It shows a lack of backbone and knowledge of the law to cancel this trip. The teacher is an educational hero for wanting her students to understand how religion works in sites of worship.
 
2013-09-23 12:47:09 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-09-23 12:53:41 PM

mediablitz: UrukHaiGuyz: mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.

Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?

This was a "World Studies" class, not a "Religious Studies" class.


And with most everyone in the world belonging to a religion, why would be educational to learn about world religions?  Right?
 
2013-09-23 12:55:55 PM
Seriously.  If these parents wanted their kids to learn about diversity, they wouldn't be sending them to public schools in Tennessee.
 
2013-09-23 12:56:29 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Sigh. I know it revolves around derpy parent's terrified that their precious nuggets might be exposed to conflicting worldviews, but this is something the schools should be challenging head-on. There is a severe lack of critical thinking being taught many places in the U.S., and many kids won't get opportunities like this if it's left up to the parents.


Nope. I don't want the school wasting money or time on this. Just teach the basics and get the little snowflakes out the door. Can the read? Can they write? Do they know the three branches of government?

So many schools are failing on these. And you want them to teach critical thinking and problem solving?!

Somacandra: No it does not. It shows a lack of backbone and knowledge of the law to cancel this trip. The teacher is an educational hero for wanting her students to understand how religion works in sites of worship.


Show the kids a PBS video and call it good. Again, too much time and money. I hear public schools have neither so why waste it on this? Hell, I bet you'd have parent biatching about the video.
 
2013-09-23 01:00:38 PM

vudukungfu: I'm not saying all people from Tennessee are backwards, inbred, xenophobic, racists, but most people from Tennessee are backwards, inbred, xenophobic, racists.
And I know a few people from that state.


It's just that 95% of them give the rest a bad name, right?

Seriously, this is probably the reverse. A couple of evangelical nuts raising a stink about something the rest of the parents are fine with.

/Born and raised in TN; still the libbiest lib that ever libbed.
 
2013-09-23 01:01:25 PM
The last thing a parent wants is for their child to learn about the religion that they've been trying to teach their child to be afraid of,
 
2013-09-23 01:03:15 PM

I_Am_Weasel: The last thing a parent wants is for their child to learn about the religion that they've been trying to teach their child to be afraid of,


THIS.
 
2013-09-23 01:03:42 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Sigh. I know it revolves around derpy parent's terrified that their precious nuggets might be exposed to conflicting worldviews, but this is something the schools should be challenging head-on. There is a severe lack of critical thinking being taught many places in the U.S., and many kids won't get opportunities like this if it's left up to the parents.

Nope. I don't want the school wasting money or time on this. Just teach the basics and get the little snowflakes out the door. Can the read? Can they write? Do they know the three branches of government?

So many schools are failing on these. And you want them to teach critical thinking and problem solving?!


I want better, smarter citizens running the country when I'm old. I'm sorry to see you don't have higher aspirations for our young students- if we all adopt that mentality we'll continue to struggle to compete intellectually with the rest of the modern world.
 
2013-09-23 01:07:53 PM
You can simultaneously freak out the squares and tear up the dance floor by going to prom with a Whirling Dervish.
 
2013-09-23 01:08:43 PM

mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.


Churches, mosques, synagogues and the like are great places to learn historical and cultural information about religion.  There's a difference between learning sociological or anthropological information and learning theological information.  If the kids were being taken to a mosque to learn how to recite Islamic prayers or something, I'd agree that would be inappropriate.  However, just learning about Islam as part of a World Studies course....I can't see the issue there.  Of course, we're talking about Tennessee, here.  This is where the Scopes trial took place after all.

I went to a Catholic high school and we took field trips to several different places of worship, not within the context of a Theology class, but rather that of a World History class.  Islam was a major contributor to Western culture, more than most people probably realize.  Learning about that, not to mention seeing examples of some rather stunning architecture, can't possibly be considered a bad thing.  Separation of church and state exists, and it's a very good thing that it does, but this field trip in no way promotes the establishment of a religion at the detriment of any other.  We need to stop being so piss-scared of not just Islam, but anything that is the "other."
 
2013-09-23 01:11:35 PM
Even GI Joe would have gone on this field trip despite being at war with Islam.  Why?  Altogether now....


"Because knowing is half the battle."
 
2013-09-23 01:13:18 PM

I_C_Weener: Even GI Joe would have gone on this field trip despite being at war with Islam.  Why?  Altogether now....


"Because knowing is half the battle."


andiamnotlying.com
 
2013-09-23 01:14:22 PM
Step 1:  Bubble wrap our snowflakes' bodies
Step 2:  Bubble wrap our snowflakes' minds
Step 3:  No prophet
 
2013-09-23 01:20:52 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: I want better, smarter citizens running the country when I'm old. I'm sorry to see you don't have higher aspirations for our young students- if we all adopt that mentality we'll continue to struggle to compete intellectually with the rest of the modern world.


Teach them to write, read and who the VP is and you'll be a step closer to your goal.

Yes this is from 2011, but do you think things have become better or worse?
 
2013-09-23 01:25:04 PM

mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.


If they only went to a Christian church, I'd have issues with it.

I wonder how evangelicals would feel about including pagans in the mix?
 
2013-09-23 01:33:11 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: I want better, smarter citizens running the country when I'm old. I'm sorry to see you don't have higher aspirations for our young students- if we all adopt that mentality we'll continue to struggle to compete intellectually with the rest of the modern world.

Teach them to write, read and who the VP is and you'll be a step closer to your goal.

Yes this is from 2011, but do you think things have become better or worse?


Well thanks to Governor Good-Hair's draconian education cuts, things have undoubtedly gotten worse in my state. I'd love to see education funding hugely increased nationwide. I don't understand your position, though. Our kids aren't receiving a decent education, so dumb it down to the basics? That seems like a race-to-the-bottom sort of approach.
 
2013-09-23 01:47:01 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Well thanks to Governor Good-Hair's draconian education cuts, things have undoubtedly gotten worse in my state. I'd love to see education funding hugely increased nationwide. I don't understand your position, though. Our kids aren't receiving a decent education, so dumb it down to the basics? That seems like a race-to-the-bottom sort of approach.


dollars have nothing to do with it.
 
2013-09-23 01:50:50 PM
Are they being taught about a religion in a context that approaches it academically and educationally? Well then, carry on.

I'm totally fine with kids being taught about religion in schools, but not fine with religion being taught in schools.


Also this

I_Am_Weasel: The last thing a parent wants is for their child to learn about the religion that they've been trying to teach their child to be afraid of,

 
2013-09-23 01:53:02 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Our kids aren't receiving a decent education, so dumb it down to the basics? That seems like a race-to-the-bottom sort of approach.


So you suggest they have the basics down and fund reduction prevents some sort of mind expansion? Wait, I can laugh harder.jpg.
 
2013-09-23 02:02:32 PM
Maybe they should just bring Mulsims in to talk as part of a multicultural tour with other cultures. Why take a field trip to a religious institution? This is stupid.
 
2013-09-23 02:03:38 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?

Religion is a hot button issue for any government institution. They should have known that at least one parent was going to raise a stink about it. Should it be this way? No. But it shows a lack of intelligence on the side of the school to even plan this kind of a trip.



Oh, well - fark a complete education, we might upset a bigot.
 
2013-09-23 02:04:01 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?

Religion is a hot button issue for any government institution. They should have known that at least one parent was going to raise a stink about it. Should it be this way? No. But it shows a lack of intelligence on the side of the school to even plan this kind of a trip.

If the kids want to visit a mosques I'm sure they will be happy to provide a free tour. The one near my house has tours and meet and greets every weekend. Free of charge


When I was in grade school we had released time. You got a one-hour get-out-of-school pass on Wednesday afternoons to go to a church and basically have Sunday school.

At first I wasn't part, and those of us who stayed behind did crafts, so it wasn't onerous. But then I realized I wanted in on it. No protests of kids being allowed to go to church on school time. Just singed up and got in on the bug juice and cookies.
 
2013-09-23 02:04:41 PM
Will they also be visiting Christian churches, Buddhist temples and Jewish synagogues. If not then I have to agree with the parents. To me it's an all or nothing kind of thing.
 
2013-09-23 02:04:43 PM
When I was ten, we went to Egypt. A lot of the memories have faded now, but I remember we went into mosques as well as churches. I really value that experience because, when 9/11 rolled around the next year, I knew a lot more than my peers and was less susceptible to fearmongering.

I also got a weird sense that they were "holy" places even though I'm an atheist now and never really thought about God at that age. The idea that millions of people had worshipped in this building over the centuries was nevertheless really powerful. I don't think you have to believe in a god to recognize a religious site's importance.
 
2013-09-23 02:05:22 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Sigh. I know it revolves around derpy parent's terrified that their precious nuggets might be exposed to conflicting worldviews, but this is something the schools should be challenging head-on. There is a severe lack of critical thinking being taught many places in the U.S., and many kids won't get opportunities like this if it's left up to the parents.

Nope. I don't want the school wasting money or time on this. Just teach the basics and get the little snowflakes out the door. Can the read? Can they write? Do they know the three branches of government?

So many schools are failing on these. And you want them to teach critical thinking and problem solving?!

Somacandra: No it does not. It shows a lack of backbone and knowledge of the law to cancel this trip. The teacher is an educational hero for wanting her students to understand how religion works in sites of worship.

Show the kids a PBS video and call it good. Again, too much time and money. I hear public schools have neither so why waste it on this? Hell, I bet you'd have parent biatching about the video.


Sorry - I don't think education should be dumbed down to accommodate people like you. People like you need to be smartened up. That's why we have education.
 
2013-09-23 02:05:47 PM

vudukungfu: I'm not saying all people from Tennessee are backwards, inbred, xenophobic, racists, but most people from Tennessee are backwards, inbred, xenophobic, racists.
And I know a few people from that state.


It is funny when Americans point fingers at one another. We're to beleive that people from your state are not xenophobic racists?
 
2013-09-23 02:06:07 PM

brap: You can simultaneously freak out the squares and tear up the dance floor by going to prom with a Whirling Dervish.


And then you can give Keapon Laffin the whorl for some dinars
 
2013-09-23 02:06:21 PM

OregonVet: UrukHaiGuyz: Our kids aren't receiving a decent education, so dumb it down to the basics? That seems like a race-to-the-bottom sort of approach.

So you suggest they have the basics down and fund reduction prevents some sort of mind expansion? Wait, I can laugh harder.jpg.


Where did I say that? And yes, lower funding does lead to lower outcomes, in education as in just about anything.
 
2013-09-23 02:07:31 PM
Sorry kids, your parents are dumb racists and want you to take over the family business.
 
2013-09-23 02:09:07 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: OregonVet: UrukHaiGuyz: Our kids aren't receiving a decent education, so dumb it down to the basics? That seems like a race-to-the-bottom sort of approach.

So you suggest they have the basics down and fund reduction prevents some sort of mind expansion? Wait, I can laugh harder.jpg.

Where did I say that? And yes, lower funding does lead to lower outcomes, in education as in just about anything.


I am not the one that brought up "dumbing it down to the basics" and asked if somehow you felt they have them down. Just answer the fooking question.
 
2013-09-23 02:09:47 PM
Whitewashing religion out of education isn't a smart or proper thing to do. It provides context for the world we live in, and that should be all that a reasonable person needs to see in order to be OK with this.

That said, the second stupid thing in this story is the fact that the school canceled the entire class trip due to a single parent. A similiar thing happened when I was in high school- a single parent complained about "The Joy Luck Club" and suddenly the administration ordered the entire sophomore class (500 students) to cancel that unit. Not only did it put the teachers a month behind on their preparation, it totally disrupted the student body and they had bought all the books (something like $7x500=$3500) for nothing. This was  AFTER the teachers had already sent out a permission slip and gotten everyone else's back with no problem. This was  AFTER the permission slip said that the parents could opt out their kids at no penalty to them.

I guarantee you that the administration at this school is filled with gutless ladder-climbers who couldn't care two shiats about education.
 
2013-09-23 02:09:51 PM

show me: When I lived in Nashville for a while back in the '90s, Mormons wanted to build a temple there. The city fought tooth and nail to make sure they couldn't do it, like rezoning the property, etc. And that's the farking Mormons,not Muslims.

/There's a Baptist church on every corner there, and I bet some have 2.


Funny thing, if the class showed up to a Mormon temple they would not be allowed in. At the mosque they would be welcome in. Think about that.
 
2013-09-23 02:10:49 PM

mediablitz: UrukHaiGuyz: mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.

Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?

This was a "World Studies" class, not a "Religious Studies" class.


Well I would imagine that religion plays a huge role in the world, especially during it's history whether you like it or not.
 
2013-09-23 02:11:04 PM

brap: You can simultaneously freak out the squares and tear up the dance floor by going to prom with a Whirling Dervish.


West Side Story, Marrakech Edition
lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-09-23 02:11:23 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: mediablitz: UrukHaiGuyz: mediablitz: The school shouldn't be taking field trips to churches, mosques, synagogues etc.

The added derp is a bonus though.

Why not? There is a valid place in school for religious/cultural studies, as long as they don't force the students to say an Our Father or the Shahada or whatever at the end of the tour. Why shouldn't they be exposed to different belief systems with a historical context?

This was a "World Studies" class, not a "Religious Studies" class.

Good thing there's only one religion the world round, then? No student ever benefited from a narrower curriculum.


How threatened they are that their precious little snowflakes may run off and convert to another religion.

"Beware the lure or sparky new and different religions other than your own!"

Or maybe it's just easier to keep hating people who are different because its easier than talking to people and resolving conflict peacefully.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Christianity, Islam, and Judaism three "sister" religions that all follow a common core of beliefs and just differ on who they regard as prophets? As in Islam and Judaism regards Jesus as a prophet, but not the son of God?

Don't they all worship the same god and just call god by different names?

I never understood the bickering even among differing Christian denominations.
 
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