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(The New York Times)   Sure, plans under Obamacare are cheaper, you just have to get your services from the "Eh, that's not quite green and smelly yet" institute for denying coverage   (nytimes.com) divider line 258
    More: Obvious, obamacare, senate commerce committee, Anthem Blue Cross, out-of-pocket expenses, premiums, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Cigna, health insurance  
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8274 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2013 at 1:47 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



258 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-23 10:29:40 AM
So you're saying I can't get the best while paying the least?

I'm stunned.
 
2013-09-23 11:22:20 AM
So the only difference is you'll be able to see some doctors instead of none.
 
2013-09-23 12:05:45 PM

James!: So the only difference is you'll be able to see some doctors instead of none.


And you won't have to worry about your hospital bill being sent to you instead of your insurance just because you once put a bandage on a papercut.
 
2013-09-23 12:06:44 PM
This entire article boils down to "these exchanges are governed by market forces, which means insurers will bargain harder with doctors, so doctors will get paid less, and fewer doctors will sign up for that".

Is this, like, the definition of how a market works?
 
2013-09-23 12:07:11 PM

James!: So the only difference is you'll be able to see some doctors instead of none.


No, you're supposed to follow the GOP health care plan and go to the emergency room with no intention of paying.
 
2013-09-23 12:25:34 PM
If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.
 
2013-09-23 12:52:36 PM

I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.


Why would they? They already have sweet single-payer insurance. It's only us little people that get stuck with half-measures. Still better than the previous status quo.
 
2013-09-23 01:19:15 PM

I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.


We should have gone further and gotten employers out of the health coverage game.  Including Congress' employer.
 
2013-09-23 01:50:33 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.

Why would they? They already have sweet single-payer insurance. It's only us little people that get stuck with half-measures. Still better than the previous status quo.


Um, no, they don't.
 
2013-09-23 01:52:29 PM
So its like a govt run HMO? Bleh.

Got a letter in the mail friday from my insurance telling me they now cover testicle removal. Good to know if I ever get married.
 
2013-09-23 01:53:49 PM
It was so much better when there were tons of options that nobody could afford.

I hate you Obama. You...you just poop. You poop so hard, you're always all poopy.
 
2013-09-23 01:53:56 PM
My problem is that it shouldn't matter if a rich person or a poor person have the same ailment the price shouldn't be the issue as to whether or not someone gets care.

I wouldn't want anyone's health to be treated like you're leasing a car.
 
2013-09-23 01:54:04 PM

I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.


Nice strawman. No one thinks it's perfect but it's better than what we currently have
 
2013-09-23 01:54:51 PM

groppet: Got a letter in the mail friday from my insurance telling me they now cover testicle removal. Good to know if I ever get married.



If your wife ever points that out to you, run for your life.

/get a divorce before you go in for any procedure that puts you under, or you might wake up a changed man.
 
2013-09-23 01:55:54 PM

HotWingConspiracy: It was so much better when there were tons of options that nobody could afford.


What's the current number? 10% of the population doesn't have coverage?
 
2013-09-23 01:56:10 PM

groppet: So its like a govt run HMO? Bleh.


Govt mandated then outsourced to a for profit insurance company.
 
2013-09-23 01:56:26 PM
Meanwhile, a single-payer option remains the only reasonable solution by the numbers...
 
2013-09-23 01:57:20 PM

Serious Black: UrukHaiGuyz: I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.

Why would they? They already have sweet single-payer insurance. It's only us little people that get stuck with half-measures. Still better than the previous status quo.

Um, no, they don't.


Hey I learned something! Okay, it's not free single payer govt. insurance, like I had thought. But they apparently have a wealth of options and generous employer contributions, in addition to the strong bargaining from the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program for better rates.
 
2013-09-23 01:57:22 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Why would they? They already have sweet single-payer insurance. It's only us little people that get stuck with half-measures. Still better than the previous status quo.


First, no, they don't have single payer*. They have the option to sign up for the same plans as any other federal employee. For now. Second, Congress will soon have to buy insurance on the exchanges, just like most people with decent jobs don't.

* Except for special cases that are not directly related to their service in Congress
 
2013-09-23 01:57:38 PM
We should trash Obamacare and follow the rest of the GOP's economic plan.  I'm curious to see just what an economy based almost totally on health insurance and guns will look like.
 
2013-09-23 01:57:48 PM
I went without insurance for years as a part time working student. To be honest, I have no idea how good/bad my doctors and dentists were. I was just glad to get my chompers powerwashed and an assurance that my death was not imminent.
 
2013-09-23 01:58:27 PM

I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.


But like most people they already have insurance through their employer. Why would they need the exchanges? The exchanges are for people who don't already have insurance. That was kinda the point.
 
2013-09-23 01:59:07 PM
Is this where I point out that we're all screwed?

/ let's sing the doom song
 
2013-09-23 01:59:10 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: But they apparently have a wealth of options and generous employer contributions, in addition to the strong bargaining from the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program for better rates.


For now. Soon, they will be buying on the exchanges. The "exemption" that people talk about is merely their employer kicking in a bit of the cost of the plan on the exchange, which is exactly what their employer does now for insurance without the exchange.
 
2013-09-23 01:59:55 PM

Diogenes: I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.

We should have gone further and gotten employers out of the health coverage game.  Including Congress' employer.


Exactly my thoughts. Why a persons healthcare coverage is tied to their employer makes no sense. We've seen some dbag employers deciding what they will allow the insurance to cover such as birth control if it goes against the employer's religious beliefs, even when it isn't a religion based organization.

Yeah you could just go to another job (good luck in this economy) but if you or a family member has a pre existing condition or illness that they are currently being treated for, you are pretty much stuck in your job.
 
2013-09-23 02:00:00 PM
You get an Obamacare plan and it is like going back to an HMO in 1994.

Less choices.   Less options.

If I recall correctly... people just loved their HMO's
 
2013-09-23 02:02:23 PM

thurstonxhowell: Soon, they will be buying on the exchanges. The "exemption" that people talk about is merely their employer kicking in a bit of the cost of the plan on the exchange, which is exactly what their employer does now for insurance without the exchange.


So in that case, our employers will be shopping on the exchanges, and so will Congress's. Lots of employers contribute at least partially towards the health insurance of their co-workers. And so will Congress's. So a difference that makes no difference is not really a difference. Glad to see its all sorted itself out.
 
2013-09-23 02:03:27 PM
HotWingConspiracy: It was so much better when there were tons of options that nobody could afford. you could pick whatever health insurance you liked as long as it was the one your employer offered.
 
2013-09-23 02:03:51 PM

Serious Black: UrukHaiGuyz: I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.

Why would they? They already have sweet single-payer insurance. It's only us little people that get stuck with half-measures. Still better than the previous status quo.

Um, no, they don't.


Technically we all have single payer insurance...unless we are double insured.
 
2013-09-23 02:04:05 PM

DamnYankees: This entire article boils down to "these exchanges are governed by market forces, which means insurers will bargain harder with doctors, so doctors will get paid less, and fewer doctors will sign up for that".

Is this, like, the definition of how a market works?



Well, minus the part where confused old people drive through and run over people.

Though to be fair, if you are seeing your doctor at a farmer's market, you pretty much deserve what you get.
 
2013-09-23 02:05:23 PM
Not cheaper at all.

Obamacare Will Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four  http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-officia l-obam acare-will-increase-health-spending-by-7450-for-a-typical-family-of-fo ur/
 
2013-09-23 02:06:31 PM

DamnYankees: This entire article boils down to "these exchanges are governed by market forces, which means insurers will bargain harder with doctors, so doctors will get paid less, and fewer doctors will sign up for that".

Is this, like, the definition of how a market works?


flucto: HotWingConspiracy: It was so much better when there were tons of options that nobody could afford.

What's the current number? 10% of the population doesn't have coverage?


Irrelevant.  What is the number that wants it, but doesn't have it?
 
2013-09-23 02:06:45 PM

flucto: HotWingConspiracy: It was so much better when there were tons of options that nobody could afford.

What's the current number? 10% of the population doesn't have coverage?


It's currently down to about 15%
 
2013-09-23 02:09:00 PM
Do persons not understand that using the word "obamacare", in serious discourse, just flags them as Military Grade Stupid?

Like stating "energy independence" and not laughing.
Or calling the TSA a serious part of our "national security".
 
2013-09-23 02:09:15 PM

ocd002: Diogenes: I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.

We should have gone further and gotten employers out of the health coverage game.  Including Congress' employer.

Exactly my thoughts. Why a persons healthcare coverage is tied to their employer makes no sense. We've seen some dbag employers deciding what they will allow the insurance to cover such as birth control if it goes against the employer's religious beliefs, even when it isn't a religion based organization.

Yeah you could just go to another job (good luck in this economy) but if you or a family member has a pre existing condition or illness that they are currently being treated for, you are pretty much stuck in your job.


Entirely false.  As long as you had continual coverage, it goes from employer to employer.   This was designed to keep people from not enrolling until they were 40,
 
2013-09-23 02:10:08 PM
Whatever, man. As long as it's free, I'm all about it. I aint payin for nuthin!
 
2013-09-23 02:10:45 PM

happydude45: Not cheaper at all.

Obamacare Will Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four  http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-officia l-obam acare-will-increase-health-spending-by-7450-for-a-typical-family-of-fo ur/


So I have taken the latest year-by-year projections, divided by the projected U.S. population to determine the added amount per person and multiplied the result by 4.

That's stupid.
 
2013-09-23 02:10:56 PM
Nothing in the article says anything about denying coverage for specific procedures, as the headline implies.  It just says that your choice of specific doctors will be limited.  Not that that's a good thing, but it's different from what the headline says.
 
2013-09-23 02:11:54 PM

snocone: Do persons not understand that using the word "obamacare", in serious discourse, just flags them as Military Grade Stupid?

Like stating "energy independence" and not laughing.
Or calling the TSA a serious part of our "national security".


Military Grade Stupid Barack Obama
 
2013-09-23 02:12:12 PM

James!: happydude45: Not cheaper at all.

Obamacare Will Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four  http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-officia l-obam acare-will-increase-health-spending-by-7450-for-a-typical-family-of-fo ur/

So I have taken the latest year-by-year projections, divided by the projected U.S. population to determine the added amount per person and multiplied the result by 4.

That's stupid.


Yes, but it's the sort of stupid that looks 'smart' to stupid people.
 
2013-09-23 02:12:31 PM
Yes because current insurance companies love paying for treatment.

/treats cancer
//spends more and more time justifying treatments to insurance companies, when a cancer diagnosis used to be all we needed.
 
2013-09-23 02:12:44 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Irrelevant.  What is the number that wants it, but doesn't have it?


Not sure how that's relevant either. You might not want it, but still end up needing it, and thus costing the rest of us.
 
2013-09-23 02:13:30 PM
So simple, and yet, so remote a concept, it just never comes up.

Citizens and Congresscrooks get the same health insurance the parasites give themselves.
Period, Exactly the same.
DONE here, next!
 
2013-09-23 02:13:32 PM

doubled99: Whatever, man. As long as it's free, I'm all about it. I aint payin for nuthin!


You 'will' pay, unless you're dirt poor.  In which case, you probably can't pay.  And if you can't, then there's a program for you to get it for free because being poor is not a legitimate excuse to deny someone health care.
 
2013-09-23 02:14:39 PM

DamnYankees: Nutsac_Jim: Irrelevant.  What is the number that wants it, but doesn't have it?

Not sure how that's relevant either. You might not want it, but still end up needing it, and thus costing the rest of us.


if ifs and butts were candy and nuts......
 
2013-09-23 02:15:11 PM

James!: happydude45: Not cheaper at all.

Obamacare Will Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four  http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-officia l-obam acare-will-increase-health-spending-by-7450-for-a-typical-family-of-fo ur/

So I have taken the latest year-by-year projections, divided by the projected U.S. population to determine the added amount per person and multiplied the result by 4.

That's stupid.


I've done the math for my family.  Increase in premiums is guaranteed.  However, the premiums are already over the luxury tax threshold so my insurance will probably be cut in services and premium to come in under the luxury threshold.  Regardless, that premium plus the $5,000 deductible is over the current "annual out of pocket maximum" so I'd save money...except the out of pocket maximum keeps getting delayed.

Bottom line, my insurance will go up.  The other parts of Obamacare will not go into effect to compensate.  When they do, the insurance company will offer less coverage for the same or less premium.  Which may...some day...be compensated by having a max out of pocket.  If they ever enforce that provision.

There were so many other ways this could have been done to make it easier and cheaper.
 
2013-09-23 02:15:25 PM

happydude45: Not cheaper at all.


I don't get how anyone could think that picking up the tab, all of a sudden, of all the folks who couldn't afford or didn't have coverage for whatever reason, would make anything cheaper for anybody. Even for the folks who didn't have anything before, they'll get dinged for something now, too.
 
2013-09-23 02:16:37 PM

doubled99: Whatever, man. As long as it's free, I'm all about it. I aint payin for nuthin!


You realize it's not free, right?

/and it has rather high deductibles that no one seems to be mentioning.
 
2013-09-23 02:16:42 PM

Nutsac_Jim: ocd002: Diogenes: I_C_Weener: If it was such a great thing, Congress would sign up for it willingly.

Get back to me when that happens.

We should have gone further and gotten employers out of the health coverage game.  Including Congress' employer.

Exactly my thoughts. Why a persons healthcare coverage is tied to their employer makes no sense. We've seen some dbag employers deciding what they will allow the insurance to cover such as birth control if it goes against the employer's religious beliefs, even when it isn't a religion based organization.

Yeah you could just go to another job (good luck in this economy) but if you or a family member has a pre existing condition or illness that they are currently being treated for, you are pretty much stuck in your job.

Entirely false.  As long as you had continual coverage, it goes from employer to employer.   This was designed to keep people from not enrolling until they were 40,


Because every employer has exactly the same coverage, or even has a group healthcare plan at all. Obviously. And everyone gets to keep their job for as long as they want it, without fear of being laid off and unable to afford COBRA coverage. Come on, man.

Sure, it works fine when people are able to go from one job to a new job with good group coverage. That's a hell of a leap of faith for some people to take, though.
 
2013-09-23 02:16:58 PM

I_C_Weener: snocone: Do persons not understand that using the word "obamacare", in serious discourse, just flags them as Military Grade Stupid?

Like stating "energy independence" and not laughing.
Or calling the TSA a serious part of our "national security".

Military Grade Stupid Barack Obama


Partisanship is the poster boy for Apocalyptic Grade Stupid.
The GOP and DFL have made themselves THE operative roadblocks to the survival of "America".
You should know how that ends.
 
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