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(Huffington Post)   RAND PAUL: Yeah....the party is pretty much hosed with this impossible defunding Obamacare thing. Welp, it was both a pleasure and a nightmare knowing you people   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, humans, obamacare, Betsy McCaughey, Louise Slaughter, deem and pass, dual mandate, Cliff Stearns, RNC Chairman Michael Steele  
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5416 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Sep 2013 at 9:39 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-23 12:46:57 PM  

Ned Stark: Weaver95: I have conservative friends who still cannot accept that they've lost this fight. They refuse to accept that Obama won.

In what sense did conservatives lose? Their opponents adopted heritage foundation insanity as their health plan and then ran it across the goal line. Even now with only the house in their hands the most you can say is that conservatives probably wont be able to fark it up even more.

Liberals, uhhhh... didn't look as silly?


They lost because they never actually wanted it passed.

The plan was only put forth to try and prevent greater health reform, especially with the hope of debating the poinnt until things change and they can put the whole issue to rest.

It was, at best, the lesser of two evils in their minds. But still evil.
 
2013-09-23 12:47:35 PM  

BorgiaGinz: Mrbogey: somedude210: As a government employee who already suffered furloughs this summer, fark you TeaTards. You have done nothing to improve this country and done everything to destroy it. I've got bills to pay and you're not helping matters

As a non-govt employee who is tired of govt employees doing their best to feather their own nest at the expense of the private sector, who really cares that bad economic decisions are finally impacting you? Did you think these dumb ideas Obama is implementing would keep screwing over only everyone else forever?

You don't know anything about how DC works, do you? For one thing, federal workers make lower wages than the standard for comparable positions in private industry. You want to know who makes the real money in our area? It's private contractors like SAIC, CACI, and Booz Allen, located across in Northern Virginia, not DC, who make the serious dough.
When mopes like you complain about "fatcat government workers", people who actually live and work here know you're full of shiat.


Well to be fair what they are mostly complaining about is government workers benefits. Benefits like comprehensive health care including vision and dental, disability insurance, life insurance, the large amount of vacation and sick time that we get. They also complain about government workers unions which are still strong and still protect those benefits. Mostly they are jealous and feel that everyone should eat the shiat sandwich that they have to eat in the private sector.

It's okay though, because if the forced me to go private sector I'd earn about 2 maybe 3 times what I earn now, but I sure would miss those 26 vacation days a year, flex time, and working in a supportive non-competitive environment. I've worked the private sector and while the pay is better the stress, hyper aggressive competition, and hostile work environment keeps me here.
 
2013-09-23 12:50:14 PM  

phenn: cameroncrazy1984: SpectroBoy: phenn: verbaltoxin: Alright, tell us what bastion of free living and stateless liberty you relocated to?

Costa Rica. Far from perfect, but a good life.

I get a lot of people here who say things like 'then, why do you care?' So, to make it clear, I still have children in the states and what happens there affects them. Hence, I care.

You know Costa Rica has universal health care right?

And a lot more socialism and government than the US has. I wonder if he went to Costa Rica on Rush's suggestion?

May I ask where you got this information?


All you need to know is that there's government-run insurance available to anyone who wants it That right there is more socialism than the US has.
 
2013-09-23 12:50:18 PM  

friday13: phenn: theknuckler_33: Perhaps you could actually realize that, you know, no one is trying to actually get rid of his job. They are holding it hostage for political purposes. I would imagine that people who work for parts of the government that have nothing to do with healthcare might feel entitled to have their job unaffected by political brinksmanship. I wonder how many 'real job' holders who work in the private sector are worried about their contracts being affected by a potential shutdown? Do they also draw your ire? Or what about the businesses that THOSE contractors purchase goods and services from that also might now be in jeopardy... are THEY worthy of scorn as well? Our entire society is ENTITLED to a government that can function without pushing the entire farking thing off a cliff.

Yes, they draw my ire as well. I realize the whole thing is showtime to house republicans.

If the people whose jobs are being held hostage - instead of those people who are holding their job hostage - draw your ire, you, little biatch, are nothing more than a sociopath.  Kindly EABOD and DIAF.

Put simply:  what if we made it so that your job and paycheck was contingent on us being able to bomb France?  Would you just shut up and take it, or would you complain your ass off?


*favorited!*

/I guess all it takes is a woman with an opinion to out the Farklib sexists.
 
2013-09-23 12:50:44 PM  

phenn: sprawl15: phenn: "Fark you, pay me" is a remark that is blooming with self-interest. Funny how people are dogpiling me for my own self-interest.

"Fark you, pay me for the work I do" is distinct from "Fark you, pay me for existing". The reason people are dogpiling is that you're equating the former with the latter solely because the employer is the government. You feel 'entitled' to the money you earn through your labor, yet criticize them for the money they feel they're 'entitled' to through their labor.

So, an impasse?

There is a slight difference not to be missed. People who work for the government are paid by taxpayers who have no say in how much is paid or anything else. If I do a crap job, I don't get paid. If I cannot find project work, I don't get paid. That is on me. No one is being forced to pay me. Unlike him.


Should have picked a different profession, stop being so jealous.
 
2013-09-23 12:51:47 PM  

Aristocles: *favorited!*

/I guess all it takes is a woman with an opinion to out the Farklib sexists.


Show us on the doll where Bob touched you.
 
2013-09-23 12:53:46 PM  

Cletus C.: Slaves2Darkness: somedude210: As a government employee who already suffered furloughs this summer, fark you TeaTards. You have done nothing to improve this country and done everything to destroy it. I've got bills to pay and you're not helping matters

I don't know about that. The deficit is as low as it has been in ages and the debt looks manageable. Hell, if we just shut the government down every year when we run out of funding, maybe, just maybe, we will actually raise taxes and cut discretionary spending to the point that we no longer have a deficit.

Pop quiz. What is the largest catagory of discretionary spending we currently have on the books?

NPR?


Hey man, you have no idea how many cookies Cookie Monster eats in a fiscal year. It is obscene!
 
2013-09-23 12:53:58 PM  

Aristocles: Old and Busted: Farklibs defending the dems and attacking the GOP with arguments.

New Hotness: Call everyone a troll, then attack each other for responding to the supposed "troll."
 
Good for you, Farklibs.


That's because us poor liberals don't get daily talking points, so we are stuck with our own individual opinions and sometimes disagree with with other
 
2013-09-23 12:54:05 PM  

Mike_1962: thurstonxhowell: phenn: thurstonxhowell: I really, really want to know Phenn's occupation.

She's a mother. They know best, no matter how mind bogglingly stupid the things they say are.

I have been a creative director for 25+ years. These days, I work for myself.

Next question?

How long do you think Costa Rica would remain an independent state if the US military did not exist?

Well, I don't believe you currently provide them with much. About 21 million in total aid since 2009. That includes everything. Prior to 2009 I believe they received little or nothing since they resisted US demands that all US citizens should have ICC immunity.


Costa Rica doesn't have its own military and has over 20% of it's claim to territory disputed by Nicaragua. Absent a super-power just to their north to make sure they abide by the ICC's decisions about where the boundary was between their two nations, I'm thinking Nicaragua might settle that dispute pretty quickly.
 
2013-09-23 12:56:13 PM  

sprawl15: Triple Oak: an island

[i.imgur.com image 400x282]


After all the ice melts, what is left may well be an island.
 
2013-09-23 12:56:14 PM  
TV's Vinnie: [So you're saying there's a chance]

I was actually thinking the same thing when I posted it, but I was on a phone so hard to post an image.

// Internet high five.

machodonkeywrestler: Well, tell us what yours is or STFU. Otherwise you're just being a pedantic prick.

A lot more than 5 years. Maybe 10-20 at least. During which time there was an actual surplus. I'm interested to see where you think you're trying to go with this. You remind me of a used house salesman trying to say houses are "historically" cheap (compared to 2007).
 
2013-09-23 12:57:01 PM  
I always get a big charge out of Republicans who say the government ought to be run more like a business then when they get in office they "govern" in a manner that would, in the private sector, get their asses fired for cause, and would cause the business to fail.
 
2013-09-23 12:59:34 PM  
Here comes the pivot! Get your screencaps ready.
 
2013-09-23 01:00:24 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: BorgiaGinz: Mrbogey: somedude210: As a government employee who already suffered furloughs this summer, fark you TeaTards. You have done nothing to improve this country and done everything to destroy it. I've got bills to pay and you're not helping matters

As a non-govt employee who is tired of govt employees doing their best to feather their own nest at the expense of the private sector, who really cares that bad economic decisions are finally impacting you? Did you think these dumb ideas Obama is implementing would keep screwing over only everyone else forever?

You don't know anything about how DC works, do you? For one thing, federal workers make lower wages than the standard for comparable positions in private industry. You want to know who makes the real money in our area? It's private contractors like SAIC, CACI, and Booz Allen, located across in Northern Virginia, not DC, who make the serious dough.
When mopes like you complain about "fatcat government workers", people who actually live and work here know you're full of shiat.

Well to be fair what they are mostly complaining about is government workers benefits. Benefits like comprehensive health care including vision and dental, disability insurance, life insurance, the large amount of vacation and sick time that we get. They also complain about government workers unions which are still strong and still protect those benefits. Mostly they are jealous and feel that everyone should eat the shiat sandwich that they have to eat in the private sector.

It's okay though, because if the forced me to go private sector I'd earn about 2 maybe 3 times what I earn now, but I sure would miss those 26 vacation days a year, flex time, and working in a supportive non-competitive environment. I've worked the private sector and while the pay is better the stress, hyper aggressive competition, and hostile work environment keeps me here.


AfGE and NTEU Gov't workers don't get disability insurance outside of Social Security, unless you are military (which is not AFGE or NTEU). Vision and dental is extra and not subsidized either unless you are postal or military. Sick time is the short term disability program, and you can't cash it out (but unused time counts towards your service time for your FERS account). Its basically heart attack insurance. Also you don't get the 26 days til you have 15 yrs in government. Its 13 for the first three years and 19.5 until you hit 15 yrs.

I'm not saying its a bad deal. My friends from school make two to three times GS-13 salary (lots of lawyers are 12s and 13s), and they get good benefits. The ones that make partner will eventually make even more than that. However, they also are expected to be on call during their vacations when they are allowed to take them.

Everything else is spot on though.
 
2013-09-23 01:00:41 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Mike_1962: thurstonxhowell: phenn: thurstonxhowell: I really, really want to know Phenn's occupation.

She's a mother. They know best, no matter how mind bogglingly stupid the things they say are.

I have been a creative director for 25+ years. These days, I work for myself.

Next question?

How long do you think Costa Rica would remain an independent state if the US military did not exist?

Well, I don't believe you currently provide them with much. About 21 million in total aid since 2009. That includes everything. Prior to 2009 I believe they received little or nothing since they resisted US demands that all US citizens should have ICC immunity.

Costa Rica doesn't have its own military and has over 20% of it's claim to territory disputed by Nicaragua. Absent a super-power just to their north to make sure they abide by the ICC's decisions about where the boundary was between their two nations, I'm thinking Nicaragua might settle that dispute pretty quickly.


The area you refer to is Guanacaste - the province where I live. Chinchilla has sought UN intervention, but that's about as far as it's gone. No standing army since 1948 has advantages - and some serious disadvantages.
 
2013-09-23 01:01:01 PM  
Also, there is a newly green health care thread re this NYT article.  TFA says insurers that participate in ACA exchanges will use narrower networks of providers, and that some people with pre-existing conditions are expected to choose not to use the insurance for that reason.
 
2013-09-23 01:01:49 PM  

red5ish: I always get a big charge out of Republicans who say the government ought to be run more like a business then when they get in office they "govern" in a manner that would, in the private sector, get their asses fired for cause, and would cause the business to fail.


Government is supposed to do the things businesses can't. It doesn't stand to reason it should be run like a business.
 
2013-09-23 01:10:49 PM  

Ricardo Klement: red5ish: I always get a big charge out of Republicans who say the government ought to be run more like a business then when they get in office they "govern" in a manner that would, in the private sector, get their asses fired for cause, and would cause the business to fail.

Government is supposed to do the things businesses can't. It doesn't stand to reason it should be run like a business.


I agree that government cannot and should not be run like a business. I do think that the government should function, and not be run by folks who think it should be destroyed.
 
2013-09-23 01:11:03 PM  

Ricardo Klement: red5ish: I always get a big charge out of Republicans who say the government ought to be run more like a business then when they get in office they "govern" in a manner that would, in the private sector, get their asses fired for cause, and would cause the business to fail.

Government is supposed to do the things businesses can't. It doesn't stand to reason it should be run like a business.


Problem is, GOP logic doesn't seem to be able to connect those dots.
 
2013-09-23 01:12:14 PM  

Weaver95: Ricardo Klement: red5ish: I always get a big charge out of Republicans who say the government ought to be run more like a business then when they get in office they "govern" in a manner that would, in the private sector, get their asses fired for cause, and would cause the business to fail.

Government is supposed to do the things businesses can't. It doesn't stand to reason it should be run like a business.

Problem is, GOP logic doesn't seem to be able to connect those dots.


Not lately.

/Republican
 
2013-09-23 01:17:19 PM  

Slaxl: When will "welp" die?


As soon as king BoB allows it
 
2013-09-23 01:21:58 PM  

Ricardo Klement: Weaver95: Ricardo Klement: red5ish: I always get a big charge out of Republicans who say the government ought to be run more like a business then when they get in office they "govern" in a manner that would, in the private sector, get their asses fired for cause, and would cause the business to fail.

Government is supposed to do the things businesses can't. It doesn't stand to reason it should be run like a business.

Problem is, GOP logic doesn't seem to be able to connect those dots.

Not lately.

/Republican


I don't know there's anything we can do about it either.
 
2013-09-23 01:24:02 PM  

Dutch Pilsner: Slaves2Darkness: Muta: Aristocles: You know, it's annoying how pathetic the Farklibs are getting on this issue. You know you can't defend BOB's dud, so you try to change the subject.

Who is Bob?

Bob.
Bob's your uncle.
Uncle Sam.
President of the United States Barack Obama.
Barack OBama.
BOB

That's pretty silly.


Poor Aristocles...

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-09-23 01:27:57 PM  

Weaver95: Weaver95: sdd2000: what_now: KingKauff: I find it amusing that the people who are against RomneyObamacare are the ones who won't even need it.

Lowering the number of people who use the ER as primary care, making sure everyone is vaccinated will help everyone. Doing away with pre-existing condition denials and lifetime limits will help most people.

As will requiring health insurance companies to spend at least a specified percentage on health care and not profits.

And remember....actually paying for health care is considered evil. Apparently we aren't supposed to cut CEO pay under any circumstances ever.

Well...using corporate money collected to pay for health care to...ya know, pay for health care is considered evil. We're supposed to let the CEO use that money to buy a trophy wife and a new yacht.


Forget which alt you were logged in as?
 
2013-09-23 01:29:04 PM  

Weaver95: I don't know there's anything we can do about it either.


Vote.
 
2013-09-23 01:34:43 PM  

phenn: jigger: Just because this guy (somedude) feels entitled to a steady, uninterrupted stream of your money (collected by immoral means) doesn't mean that he actually is.

Thank you. This was the point I attempted to make and did a piss poor job of doing so.


No, you did OK.
It's just a piss-poor point.
 
2013-09-23 01:44:00 PM  

red5ish: Weaver95: I don't know there's anything we can do about it either.

Vote.


Pray.
 
2013-09-23 01:48:53 PM  

spartacus_prime: Weaver95: Weaver95: sdd2000: what_now: KingKauff: I find it amusing that the people who are against RomneyObamacare are the ones who won't even need it.

Lowering the number of people who use the ER as primary care, making sure everyone is vaccinated will help everyone. Doing away with pre-existing condition denials and lifetime limits will help most people.

As will requiring health insurance companies to spend at least a specified percentage on health care and not profits.

And remember....actually paying for health care is considered evil. Apparently we aren't supposed to cut CEO pay under any circumstances ever.

Well...using corporate money collected to pay for health care to...ya know, pay for health care is considered evil. We're supposed to let the CEO use that money to buy a trophy wife and a new yacht.

Forget which alt you were logged in as?


Weavs has been doing that self quote and continue rambling thing since forever. Or for at least as long as I've had him in decent poster green.
 
2013-09-23 01:50:17 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: It's gotta be better than one party rule.


At this very moment, the Republicans are planning to shutdown the government and crash the economy just to spite the Democrats.  I think I'd rather have the one party rule, at least until there's another party who's sane.
 
2013-09-23 01:51:49 PM  

Dimensio: phenn: Rwa2play: phenn: somedude210: As a government employee who already suffered furloughs this summer, fark you TeaTards. You have done nothing to improve this country and done everything to destroy it. I've got bills to pay and you're not helping matters

As someone who has been paying salaries like yours for 30+ years, fark you too. Get a real job.

8/10.  Bites acomin'.

Not a troll and I don't care. No one is entitled to the fruits of my labor but me and my family. This idea that my labor is someone else's property is ridiculous.

Let the bites come. I don't give a rip.

I assume, then, that you eschew use of all public roads, and of all goods transported on public roads.



That's the dumbest argument for Statism in the Statist Zombie playbook.  So, the State has taken over the job of planning, building and policing all of the roads, and implements a funding system that forces everyone to pay for it all by taxation, thereby completely destroying the economic viability of any other road system, and then when someone objects to that system as being, oh, inefficient or even insanely deadly, you fault them for using it.  The only road system that exists.  After the State has eradicated any possibility of any particular person having any choice in the matter.  Brilliant.

By that logic, when the US government took complete control over the entire EM spectrum in the 1920s, anyone who might suggest that there were about 1,000 other better ways the State could have gone about dealing with disputes over competing uses of that technology, you'd find fault with anyone who listened to the radio.

If the State tossed someone in prison, for no good reason, and took control of when he ate and what he ate, and he complained about his imprisonment and the food he was given, you'd fault him for eating -- for failing to object to his unjust imprisonment and conditions by starving himself.

If the State seized ownership of all of the Earth's oxygen, and you objected to that move, then you'd have to fault yourself for breathing.

Just think things through for 2 seconds before posting your inane crap.
 
2013-09-23 01:52:49 PM  

Ned Stark: spartacus_prime: Weaver95: Weaver95: sdd2000: what_now: KingKauff: I find it amusing that the people who are against RomneyObamacare are the ones who won't even need it.

Lowering the number of people who use the ER as primary care, making sure everyone is vaccinated will help everyone. Doing away with pre-existing condition denials and lifetime limits will help most people.

As will requiring health insurance companies to spend at least a specified percentage on health care and not profits.

And remember....actually paying for health care is considered evil. Apparently we aren't supposed to cut CEO pay under any circumstances ever.

Well...using corporate money collected to pay for health care to...ya know, pay for health care is considered evil. We're supposed to let the CEO use that money to buy a trophy wife and a new yacht.

Forget which alt you were logged in as?

Weavs has been doing that self quote and continue rambling thing since forever. Or for at least as long as I've had him in decent poster green.


I do my best editing after I hit the send button.
 
2013-09-23 01:53:44 PM  

HeartBurnKid: the Republicans are planning to shutdown the government and crash the economy



The government is not the economy.

The government is not doing much at all, except taking credit for the economic productivity of others.  It's what parasites do.
 
2013-09-23 01:58:38 PM  

Phinn: HeartBurnKid: the Republicans are planning to shutdown the government and crash the economy

The government is not the economy.

The government is not doing much at all, except taking credit for the economic productivity of others.  It's what parasites do.


Oh, go Galt yourself you big baby.
 
2013-09-23 01:58:53 PM  

Weaver95: Ricardo Klement: Weaver95: Ricardo Klement: red5ish: I always get a big charge out of Republicans who say the government ought to be run more like a business then when they get in office they "govern" in a manner that would, in the private sector, get their asses fired for cause, and would cause the business to fail.

Government is supposed to do the things businesses can't. It doesn't stand to reason it should be run like a business.

Problem is, GOP logic doesn't seem to be able to connect those dots.

Not lately.

/Republican

I don't know there's anything we can do about it either.


Not until pragmatic leadership takes over again. I don't know how long the failure has to go for that to happen.
 
2013-09-23 02:00:04 PM  
I see all the brave, bootstrapping, rugged individuals are out today... *rolls eyes*

Rand's a farking childish, myopic hypocritical simpleton like most teabaggers and "libertarians", but he's smart enough to realize the GOP is going to lose this fight.
 
2013-09-23 02:00:39 PM  

Ned Stark: red5ish: Weaver95: I don't know there's anything we can do about it either.

Vote.

Pray.


Love.

The new bestseller from fark.com's politics tab.
 
2013-09-23 02:03:37 PM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Dear Fed Employees & Military: We don't care about your bills or your problems. Private-sector America has it's own problems. STFU & GBTW.
Signed,
America.


The private sector has problems partially because of this ridiculous insistence on deregulation, which is part of what this fight's about. So don't discount the problems of other people just because they have different job titles than you. It all stems from the same root  party problem.
 
2013-09-23 02:07:22 PM  
People act like taxes are tantamount to Francois Mitterand Kool-Aiding his way into their house, punching them in the head and stealing their wallet.
 
2013-09-23 02:08:01 PM  

Phinn: HeartBurnKid: the Republicans are planning to shutdown the government and crash the economy

The government is not the economy.

The government is not doing much at all, except taking credit for the economic productivity of others.  It's what parasites do.


The front left tire is not my truck either, but if you yank that baby off while we're going 75 down an icy road everyone on board will definitely notice the difference for a second or two.
 
2013-09-23 02:09:49 PM  

Ned Stark: Phinn: HeartBurnKid: the Republicans are planning to shutdown the government and crash the economy

The government is not the economy.

The government is not doing much at all, except taking credit for the economic productivity of others.  It's what parasites do.

The front left tire is not my truck either, but if you yank that baby off while we're going 75 down an icy road everyone on board will definitely notice the difference for a second or two.



The US economy consists of over 300 million people, and another few billion outside the US whose economic activity directly affects the US.  That system is infinitely more complex than your truck, and can adapt to changing conditions infinitely better than your truck.
 
2013-09-23 02:10:21 PM  

Weigard: People act like taxes are tantamount to Francois Mitterand Kool-Aiding his way into their house, punching them in the head and stealing their wallet.


It's one thing when the revenue raised from taxes is going to stuff we need, like blowing up sand socialists in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's wasteful, though, when it goes to stupid infrastructure projects that nobody uses like roads and bridges, and it's the most egregious waste of all if it should somehow wind up helping those people.
 
2013-09-23 02:14:32 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Mike_1962: thurstonxhowell: phenn: thurstonxhowell: I really, really want to know Phenn's occupation.

She's a mother. They know best, no matter how mind bogglingly stupid the things they say are.

I have been a creative director for 25+ years. These days, I work for myself.

Next question?

How long do you think Costa Rica would remain an independent state if the US military did not exist?

Well, I don't believe you currently provide them with much. About 21 million in total aid since 2009. That includes everything. Prior to 2009 I believe they received little or nothing since they resisted US demands that all US citizens should have ICC immunity.

Costa Rica doesn't have its own military and has over 20% of it's claim to territory disputed by Nicaragua. Absent a super-power just to their north to make sure they abide by the ICC's decisions about where the boundary was between their two nations, I'm thinking Nicaragua might settle that dispute pretty quickly.


Actually their dispute is over various rights concerning the river that forms the border, not so much a territorial dispute as a usage dispute based on a treaty from the 1800s. The issue was settled by the ICJ ruling. The US had nothing to do with it. As far as the US enforcing ICC decisions, you might want to rethink that. Clinton signed the statute of Rome but chose not to try to ratify the treaty. That signature obligates a signatory to refrain from obstructing the ICC, but without ratification little else. When Bush was in office, he abrogated the signatory status and actively opposed many of the ICCs mandates although that posture moderated over time. To date, I believe the only ICC action actually endorsed by the US was prosecution of Darfur crimes.
 
2013-09-23 02:15:45 PM  

Weigard: People act like taxes are tantamount to Francois Mitterand Kool-Aiding his way into their house, punching them in the head and stealing their wallet.


They understate it then? Because, consequences that enforce taxes are actually far more severe than a hole in your wall and a punch. You'll go to prison or be killed.
 
2013-09-23 02:17:32 PM  

Phinn: The government is not doing much at all, except taking credit for the economic productivity of others. It's what parasites do.


you have no idea how much work the public sector gives to the private sector, do you?
 
2013-09-23 02:25:00 PM  

Phinn: Ned Stark: Phinn: HeartBurnKid: the Republicans are planning to shutdown the government and crash the economy

The government is not the economy.

The government is not doing much at all, except taking credit for the economic productivity of others.  It's what parasites do.

The front left tire is not my truck either, but if you yank that baby off while we're going 75 down an icy road everyone on board will definitely notice the difference for a second or two.

The US economy consists of over 300 million people, and another few billion outside the US whose economic activity directly affects the US.  That system is infinitely more complex than your truck, and can adapt to changing conditions infinitely better than your truck.


Shutting down the government is not like yanking off the front whee. No shutting down the government would be like driving at 25 miles an hour in your truck.
 
2013-09-23 02:30:26 PM  

keylock71: I see all the brave, bootstrapping, rugged individuals are out today...


blogs.miaminewtimes.com
Pree-zent.
 
2013-09-23 02:33:50 PM  

Mike_1962: thurstonxhowell: Mike_1962: thurstonxhowell: phenn: thurstonxhowell: I really, really want to know Phenn's occupation.

She's a mother. They know best, no matter how mind bogglingly stupid the things they say are.

I have been a creative director for 25+ years. These days, I work for myself.

Next question?

How long do you think Costa Rica would remain an independent state if the US military did not exist?

Well, I don't believe you currently provide them with much. About 21 million in total aid since 2009. That includes everything. Prior to 2009 I believe they received little or nothing since they resisted US demands that all US citizens should have ICC immunity.

Costa Rica doesn't have its own military and has over 20% of it's claim to territory disputed by Nicaragua. Absent a super-power just to their north to make sure they abide by the ICC's decisions about where the boundary was between their two nations, I'm thinking Nicaragua might settle that dispute pretty quickly.

Actually their dispute is over various rights concerning the river that forms the border, not so much a territorial dispute as a usage dispute based on a treaty from the 1800s. The issue was settled by the ICJ ruling. The US had nothing to do with it. As far as the US enforcing ICC decisions, you might want to rethink that. Clinton signed the statute of Rome but chose not to try to ratify the treaty. That signature obligates a signatory to refrain from obstructing the ICC, but without ratification little else. When Bush was in office, he abrogated the signatory status and actively opposed many of the ICCs mandates although that posture moderated over time. To date, I believe the only ICC action actually endorsed by the US was prosecution of Darfur crimes.


Oops. There is a territorial dispute in that Ortega wants one of Costa rica's provinces, but since I assume that that province has no desire to leave Costa Rica for Nicaragua I suspect little will come of it.
 
2013-09-23 02:34:43 PM  

somedude210: Phinn: The government is not doing much at all, except taking credit for the economic productivity of others. It's what parasites do.

you have no idea how much work the public sector gives to the private sector, do you?


Yup... I work for a publicly traded and successful medical device company and a large portion of our customers are VA hospitals.
 
2013-09-23 02:43:46 PM  

hugram: Yup... I work for a publicly traded and successful medical device company and a large portion of our customers are VA hospitals.


I have no doubt. Sometime in the late 90s-early 00s, the government (especially DoD) really ran hard to contractors to do most of the work that used to be done in-house.
 
2013-09-23 02:45:30 PM  
There is a rational middle-ground between "OMFG! All taxes are evil, and the government does nothing but take our money!" and "If you've ever looked at a public road, then you should be happy to pay your taxes because we would all die without government!"

It is true that government serves a vital and necessary function in a well regulated free-market economy.
It is true that too much government is toxic to a thriving free market, and to individual liberty.
It is true that too little government is toxic to the protection and preservation of the common good.

Arguing to the absolutes is juvenile.

While I personally think that we have allowed the federal government to expand too far in its role in the economy and regulation of personal affairs, the solution to this is not to argue for the elimination of all government, but rather to shrink the size and influence of the federal government back to the levels and areas where it is effectively and appropriately involved.

For instance, Interstate highways and bridges are indisputably a province of the federal government, and an area where they can be most effective. However, local public schools are not. Regulation of shipping and transport is an area for federal direction, as is environmental protection. Marriage and employer benefits is not.

Obviously, opinions will vary, but it is just silly to be arguing between an absolutist "All tax is theft" position and a "All taxes are for the benefit of the common good" position. Neither is entirely correct, and neither is entirely wrong.
 
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