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(Opposing Views)   Student breaks arm, school won't take her to ER or call 911. School doesn't have ice for her broken arm, so they use ice cream sandwiches   (opposingviews.com ) divider line
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14256 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Sep 2013 at 9:38 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-22 09:10:49 PM  
What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?
 
2013-09-22 09:14:05 PM  
That was a shatia thing to do.
 
2013-09-22 09:19:17 PM  
You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens
 
2013-09-22 09:28:51 PM  

ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens


The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.
 
2013-09-22 09:30:10 PM  

Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.


I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either
 
2013-09-22 09:30:21 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

I suppose peanut butter sandwiched were unavailable?
 
2013-09-22 09:36:13 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?


Just the loco part.

(I fell off the monkey bars and broke my arm too...)
 
2013-09-22 09:36:15 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.

I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either


If the parents can't be contacted then the school can give consent. As was mentioned above: In loco parentis
 
2013-09-22 09:37:09 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.

I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either


I would think they are required to provide card to an injured person, regardless of age, and the whole concept of  in loco parentis should cover consent.  I mean, do they wait to get permission to save a kid shot in the lung during a school shooting?
 
2013-09-22 09:38:58 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.

I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either


Nope. The school better call 911. The kid will get transported and treated unless a parent or legal guardian denies treatment. In person too. Over the phone is not good enough
 
2013-09-22 09:42:45 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?


The official designated 911 caller was busy monitoring kids' Facebook pages.
 
2013-09-22 09:45:54 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: In person too. Over the phone is not good enough


Yep. I was going to point that out as well.

I worked in a *very* low income school district once. I had parents tell me to not call a doctor, or write statements to that effect on school forms. It's understandable, because these people are one car repair away from destitution (to say nothing of a medical bill), but that doesn't mean that the school would stand by and deny a kid treatment.

If you're not there, then you're absent. If you're absent, the school makes the decisions.
 
2013-09-22 09:46:38 PM  
Is it racist to say that this little girl fell off of the monkey bars?
 
2013-09-22 09:46:43 PM  
What would YOU do for a Klondike bar?
 
2013-09-22 09:48:05 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: That was a shatia thing to do.


lol. isn't that some kind of form of adjectival past participle?

no matter, a very unfortunate name for a person to have at any rate.
 
2013-09-22 09:49:36 PM  
I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.
 
2013-09-22 09:49:45 PM  
Does it matter that the school doesn't have an X-ray machine or Superman Vision to accurately determine when a bone is actually broken?  Sure, if it's a compound fracture and the bone's jutting out the kid's arm, I could see phoning 911 pronto; otherwise it's a judgement call.

They called the parents. The kid is fine.
 
2013-09-22 09:50:09 PM  
this is why we need more charter schools, stories like this won't be as surprising.
 
2013-09-22 09:52:03 PM  

mikeray: Is it racist to say that this little girl fell off of the monkey bars?


Yes it is.

I also LOLed

Aisle seat please
 
2013-09-22 09:52:07 PM  
Fist of all, it's a broken arm, she wasn't laying unconscious on the ground. Schools are required to call the emergency contacts in cases like this, that's why you give the school up to date information on how to contact you. Only when the child is in immediate danger would they be able to take her to the hospital (and the hospital be able to treat her) without a parent or guardians permission.
 
2013-09-22 09:52:16 PM  

Fano: What would YOU do for a Klondike bar?


Nothing, I hate Klondike bars.
 
2013-09-22 09:53:39 PM  

Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.


Only the known trolls.
 
2013-09-22 09:54:36 PM  
Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.
 
2013-09-22 09:56:07 PM  

skinink: Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.


Did she not have a darn phone?
 
2013-09-22 09:56:33 PM  

Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.


Do you have kids? If so you may want to call the school and find out what their policy is because I guarantee one of those papers you signed when you enrolled them was about this very subject.
 
2013-09-22 09:56:38 PM  
And my wife had something similar happen. When she was in HS. She fell and broke her foot. They called her mom, who wasn't home, and they refused to cal her emergency contact number because it wouldn't do any good (they said). The break wasn't finally diagnosed until several days later.
Me, I broke my wrist once in gym class, and my dad, who taught at the school, swung by my Bio class the next period (after I finished taking a test), and took me to the ER.
 
2013-09-22 09:57:32 PM  
With the mounds of legal crap schools have to be wary of, things like this cause everyone to lock up and be afraid to make any move.

Some administrator somewhere is still praying the kid wasn't allergic to the red dye on the ice cream sandwich wrapper.
 
2013-09-22 09:57:35 PM  

Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.


Who pays the $1000 for the ambulance ride, and the $300 just to walk in the door of the ER?

/number out of my butt, but not insanely wrong.
 
2013-09-22 09:58:11 PM  
I broke my arm in fourth grade and no one called 911 or an ambulance.  Instead, they called my parents and I waited in the front office until the step-mom showed up to take me to the ER.
 
2013-09-22 09:59:49 PM  
Man, that family is going to be neck deep in KFC after the settlement comes in
 
2013-09-22 10:00:40 PM  

ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens


1. Yes you do.
2. No they can't.

Broken bones can and often do cause considerably more serious damage than you see on TV. Compound fractures can sever blood vessels, tendons, and in any case need to be evaluated by doctors after an X-ray and/or MRI. Yes, the school would be liable for TAKING the kid to the hospital--that's why you call 911 and let some trained medics make that call. If the paramedics arrive and say "This kid needs to go to the ER," then she goes--the ER has to take her, the school has to let her, and the parents have limited lawsuit options after that. If the medics say "She can wait," then the school is absolved of the liability they're going to get nailed with after this little fiasco.

Paramedics are always your first line of defense against injury and lawsuits. That's what 911 is for, people.
 
2013-09-22 10:01:33 PM  

Saul T. Balzac: I broke my arm in fourth grade and no one called 911 or an ambulance.  Instead, they called my parents and I waited in the front office until the step-mom showed up to take me to the ER.


That was the old days before private ambulance companies realized they could make money off non emergency transports

Suddenly EMS became part of comprehensive community health care
 
2013-09-22 10:01:39 PM  
Were they stupidly negligent, on afraid of getting sued?

Because they're going to get sued.

And taxpayers will pay for it.

You know, I figured out that is a lot of what taxes are for. Stupidity insurance.
 
2013-09-22 10:02:52 PM  

RoyBatty: Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?

Just the loco part.

(I fell off the monkey bars and broke my arm too...)


So did I! They called my parents after I told them it was broken (their first reaction was to tell me to walk it off). I had to wait in the nurse's office and didn't even get any ice (or ice cream...)

Too bad it happened in the eighties. My parents didn't sue and didn't switch my school. They just told me to learn how to fall better and bought me a happy meal on the ride home from the hospital.

/css
 
2013-09-22 10:02:56 PM  

Sliding Carp: Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.

Who pays the $1000 for the ambulance ride, and the $300 just to walk in the door of the ER?

/number out of my butt, but not insanely wrong.


Generally, whomever signs the paper at the hospital saying they'll pay.
 
2013-09-22 10:03:17 PM  
CSB time

When i was in 2nd grade my then "Boyfriend" fell in the playground and hurt his leg. I took him to the nurse's office. She was not on call that day and no one else would help in the office. I got a ice pack and wrapped it in papertowels and put it on his leg.

/1978
 
2013-09-22 10:04:16 PM  

ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm


You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.
 
2013-09-22 10:04:40 PM  
When I was in fourth grade, I broke my finger playing kickball during lunch. My teacher, on the basis of his degree in kinesiology, declared that it wasn't broken, and I was fine. Immediately after lunch? Picture day...despite the best efforts of the photographer, I didn't muster much of a smile.
 
2013-09-22 10:05:45 PM  
School messed up, they were too busy trying to cover their asses to get the child the medical care she needed.
 
2013-09-22 10:07:27 PM  

rkiller1: Does it matter that the school doesn't have an X-ray machine or Superman Vision to accurately determine when a bone is actually broken?  Sure, if it's a compound fracture and the bone's jutting out the kid's arm, I could see phoning 911 pronto; otherwise it's a judgement call.

They called the parents. The kid is fine.


You will know when you've broken your arm. It's quite obvious even when it's just a sissy little fracture.

But yeah, I don't see why anything below a displaced fracture merits a 911 call. It seems more sensible to call the parents to drive the kid to the hospital, or drive them yourself.

911 for this seems a waste of the paramedics' valuable time.
 
2013-09-22 10:09:08 PM  

mikeray: skinink: Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.

Did she not have a darn phone?


1992, the dark ages where cell phones weren't everywhere...and internet? Email? What was that? She was on a plane when he got injured, and I don't remember why a simple call from her meeting in New Jersey would not get him admitted. But the hospital insisted I needed a letter giving permission to admit the kid.
 
2013-09-22 10:11:09 PM  

rkiller1: Does it matter that the school doesn't have an X-ray machine or Superman Vision to accurately determine when a bone is actually broken? Sure, if it's a compound fracture and the bone's jutting out the kid's arm, I could see phoning 911 pronto; otherwise it's a judgement call.

They called the parents. The kid is fine.


I've broken both my arms and it pretty hard to miss when they are broken.  I suppose someone could manage it but it would be difficult.
 
2013-09-22 10:11:30 PM  
FTA: Academy?

So like a private school? Or one of them bastard charter schools.
People need to read them private school enrollment documents. They pretty well state that they can beat your kid and any injuries(by the school or by the kid) is not their responsibility.
 
2013-09-22 10:12:00 PM  
When I was in the sixth grade a teacher decided that our free play at recess wasn't good enough and made each class participate in organized team sports that he ran. A friend of mine ended up falling down hard while playing baseball and asked to go to the nurse because his arm was in a lot of pain. The teacher told him to suck it up and quit whining. The kid came in the next day with a cast and sling.

Fortunately the teacher stopped trying to be such a dick and make the male students act like what he assumed was men. I guess he realized the bullet he dodged when the parents didn't sue him or the school.
 
2013-09-22 10:12:31 PM  

hardinparamedic: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm

You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.


Cardiac arrests and car fires. I hope I go the next 13 years without making another one. No chance of that though
 
2013-09-22 10:12:38 PM  

sendtodave: Were they stupidly negligent, on afraid of getting sued?

Because they're going to get sued.

And taxpayers will pay for it.

You know, I figured out that is a lot of what taxes are for. Stupidity insurance.


It's a charter school. Not sure taxpayers will be on the hook for this.
 
2013-09-22 10:13:06 PM  
PS SHE'S BLACK
 
2013-09-22 10:13:48 PM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: But yeah, I don't see why anything below a displaced fracture merits a 911 call. It seems more sensible to call the parents to drive the kid to the hospital, or drive them yourself.

911 for this seems a waste of the paramedics' valuable time.


It's not a waste of their "valuable time". It's their job.

Fractures, at the very least, are incredibly painful. Paramedics can provide immediate pain control appropriate for the level of pain that patient is experiencing. They can also perform proper splinting and re-alignment of the extremity, both preventing further injury to the extremity, as well as decreasing the on-going damage from an unstable fracture. In addition, it's far more comfortable and safer for that person.

A fractured humerus or tib-fib can cause a loss of around 1/12 the volume of the blood in the body. A Femur can cause 1/6th that volume to bleed out into the fracture site.

Paramedics can identify neurovascular compromise and injury, and either intervene to attempt to restore critical perfusion flow, or rapidly transport a person quicker and safer than someone in a private vehicle can to definitive, proper care.

It's not as simple as "oh, you broke a bone".

Peter von Nostrand: That was the old days before private ambulance companies realized they could make money off non emergency transports

Suddenly EMS became part of comprehensive community health care


You think ambulance companies make money off any 911 calls? That's cute.

The real money is in IFT transports. 911 is a general money loss, period.

And EMS has always been a part of comprehensive community healthcare. The only people who don't want to make it that way are certain industry unions who lobby for decreased professional standards and making an EMS License an add-on certificate to Firefighter I.

Community Paramedicine is a real thing. And if the Field EMS bill passes the house and gets to the Senate, it'll be a nationwide thing, rather than a regional experiment.
 
2013-09-22 10:15:28 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: hardinparamedic: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm

You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.

Cardiac arrests and car fires. I hope I go the next 13 years without making another one. No chance of that though


My first car fire as an EMT was in 2005, about two months after I graduated EMT-IV. We pulled up before the engine company, and the car was already fully involved after striking a transformer. The guy was still alive inside, screaming and flailing.

By the time the engine company got there and put hoses on it, he had stopped screaming. We watched him burn alive, because there was no way to get him out.
 
2013-09-22 10:16:35 PM  
So, do I hate on the school, our system or the people that named their daughter Shatia?  I'm so
 
2013-09-22 10:20:00 PM  
I broke my ankle in high school, snowflakemitter and the school didn't do shiat but call my mom.
 
2013-09-22 10:21:07 PM  

sheep snorter: FTA: Academy?

So like a private school? Or one of them bastard charter schools.
People need to read them private school enrollment documents. They pretty well state that they can beat your kid and any injuries(by the school or by the kid) is not their responsibility.


It's a public charter. I figure that was her first mistake.

Based on the GreatSchools listing for Pontiac, Michigan, that academy is right in line with other elementary-level schools in the area in terms of test scores, and has a fairly low community rating. (Public and private parochial schools top the list.)

So yeah. Charter schools...
 
2013-09-22 10:22:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: But yeah, I don't see why anything below a displaced fracture merits a 911 call. It seems more sensible to call the parents to drive the kid to the hospital, or drive them yourself.

911 for this seems a waste of the paramedics' valuable time.

It's not a waste of their "valuable time". It's their job.

Fractures, at the very least, are incredibly painful. Paramedics can provide immediate pain control appropriate for the level of pain that patient is experiencing. They can also perform proper splinting and re-alignment of the extremity, both preventing further injury to the extremity, as well as decreasing the on-going damage from an unstable fracture. In addition, it's far more comfortable and safer for that person.

A fractured humerus or tib-fib can cause a loss of around 1/12 the volume of the blood in the body. A Femur can cause 1/6th that volume to bleed out into the fracture site.

Paramedics can identify neurovascular compromise and injury, and either intervene to attempt to restore critical perfusion flow, or rapidly transport a person quicker and safer than someone in a private vehicle can to definitive, proper care.

It's not as simple as "oh, you broke a bone".

Peter von Nostrand: That was the old days before private ambulance companies realized they could make money off non emergency transports

Suddenly EMS became part of comprehensive community health care

You think ambulance companies make money off any 911 calls? That's cute.

The real money is in IFT transports. 911 is a general money loss, period.

And EMS has always been a part of comprehensive community healthcare. The only people who don't want to make it that way are certain industry unions who lobby for decreased professional standards and making an EMS License an add-on certificate to Firefighter I.

Community Paramedicine is a real thing. And if the Field EMS bill passes the house and gets to the Senate, it'll be a nationwide thing, rather than a regional experiment.


Ummmm, that's why I said make money off non emergency transports
 
2013-09-22 10:22:55 PM  
BigDogDaddy:   So, do I hate on the school, our system or the people that named their daughter Shatia?  I'm so


That's the mom's name. The daughter's name is relatively pedestrian - Brianna.
 
2013-09-22 10:24:27 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Ummmm, that's why I said make money off non emergency transports


Apologies. I thought you were referring to "non-emergency" 911 transports.

911 is ALWAYS a loss of money for any service which enters into it. The reason the privates tend to do it is it gets them either into the regional market, or they have a lucrative contract from that city or municipality to do so.
 
2013-09-22 10:28:27 PM  
@drewcurtis Can you please effing stop linking with auto redirects? It sucks on phones.
 
2013-09-22 10:29:38 PM  
All the schools my kids attended had a release form instructing what to do (contact me and my wife in that order) and where to go (local children's hospital) in such an emergency. Any other non plan is unacceptable.
 
2013-09-22 10:32:49 PM  

skinink: Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.


dbickel.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-22 10:36:44 PM  
On the scale of when to call 911 with 1 being you should go to jail for a very long time for calling including things like McDonald did not give me one of the apple pies I ordered or the guy at the cell phone place told me to make a test call and 911 was the only number I can think of. And 10 being you should go to jail for a long time for not calling including things like being in your 40s 9 months pregnant with a downs baby traveling halfway across the county when you water breaks but you decide to fly to Alaska from Texas then drive for hours to a small town doctor or your frat buddy had 3 5ths of vodka then stopped breathing. Calling 911 over a grade school kids broken arm with no signs of shock and no bones outside the body is about a 3 the only problem I see is letting a perfictly good ice cream sandwich get used like that
 
2013-09-22 10:38:47 PM  

hardinparamedic: By the time the engine company got there and put hoses on it, he had stopped screaming. We watched him burn alive, because there was no way to get him out.


As an aside, I remember reading about an incident, Mark Twain might've written on it, where a man was burning alive trapped by an exploded boiler on a ship. Another man shot him (mercy killing). There was no possible way to save him and he was suffering terribly. Made sense to me. I'm honestly kinda surprised we never see incidents where cops do that, but I also suppose its due to the fact that there is so much that can be done today to try to save people.

I seriously hope I never see something like that in my lifetime. And as someone who's had to use an ambulance...thanks for doing it.
 
2013-09-22 10:39:39 PM  

hardinparamedic: Peter von Nostrand: Ummmm, that's why I said make money off non emergency transports

Apologies. I thought you were referring to "non-emergency" 911 transports.

911 is ALWAYS a loss of money for any service which enters into it. The reason the privates tend to do it is it gets them either into the regional market, or they have a lucrative contract from that city or municipality to do so.


Probably my fault, I'm not totally familiar with how transports are broken down and the exact terminology
 
2013-09-22 10:41:01 PM  
Well, she did scream....
 
2013-09-22 10:43:10 PM  
When I was in school they just threw the broken kids in a ditch out back and let them worry about themselves....
 
2013-09-22 10:47:09 PM  

GDubDub: @drewcurtis Can you please effing stop linking with auto redirects? It sucks on phones.


Ohhh...someone thinks drew personally green lights and inspects each link. That's precious
 
2013-09-22 10:47:53 PM  

skinink: Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.


That's nothing. A friend of mine was babysitting some kids one Halloween night, and this escaped mental patient showed up and stabbed all her friends across the street, then broke in on her and the kids and tried to finish them off too. She had to send the kids screaming down the road for help because nobody's parents could be found. Her worthless mom and dad didn't even show up after she'd been taken to the hospital to be treated for knife wounds and shock.

Come to think of it, she had a lot of problems on almost every Halloween night that followed, and her parents were always conveniently missing. I think they were in on it.
 
2013-09-22 10:52:22 PM  
My kid has had 2 broken bones while at school.  In neither case did they call 911.  They correctly tried to call my wife first, then me.  And in neither case did I take her to the ER.  I called her primary doctor, got a referral to the orthopedist over the phone and took her straight there.  That's a $30 copay.  An ambulance trip to the ER is a $350+ copay.  She's kind of accident prone, we have her orthopedist on speed dial.  sigh.
 
2013-09-22 10:53:32 PM  

Sliding Carp: Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.

Who pays the $1000 for the ambulance ride, and the $300 just to walk in the door of the ER?

/number out of my butt, but not insanely wrong.


i think that everybody is supposed to have insurance for this, right?  oh wait, that starts next year
 
2013-09-22 10:54:05 PM  

ReapTheChaos: Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.

Do you have kids? If so you may want to call the school and find out what their policy is because I guarantee one of those papers you signed when you enrolled them was about this very subject.


No. My mother is a retired teacher though, so I'm familiar with public school policies on such things. In CA this would be a non-issue. They'd have called 911. This shiat happens all the time at schools, it's not uncommon. An EMT can also asess the situation (and/or consult w/ other medical ppl) and decide if transport is needed.

I don't think kids should be wrapped in bubblewrap. I am a fan of dodgeball (and was when I was a kid too). I don't think everyone should get a trophy for participating and interestingly enough as selfish as a human being as my mother could be, she was an incredibly selfless teacher who actually gave a shiat about her students. She put a lot of her own money into the classroom and is the teacher kids talk about 20 years later. I know the bullshiat schools and teachers have to go through. I also know the number of idiots employed by districts and how difficult it is to get rid of some asshats with tenure, despite the massive cutbacks, layoffs and essentially forced retirements.

My mom was pushed out. She's completely okay financially and she was going to retire soon anyway, she just didn't like how they pushed out the older teachers (reassignments, shady shiat, etc). I only mention this because a lot of the really good and dedicated professionals have been pushed out due to budget reasons (older teachers with higher education get paid a lot more) and other financial cutbacks just make it worse and worse.

When I was a kid, I had a head injury that resulted in a skull fracture and I didn't see a doctor for four days. And only then because the head swelling was so...gross. Today that would be unthinkable, because we know how serious head injuries can be. If a child gets a good knock on the head today, you have it checked out because while odds are good it's going to be just fine, we know about intracranial bleeds and how you can just die hours later.

Anyhoo, I rambled a lot but the point basically is...I'm not about swaddling precious snowflakes, but there's no reason to fark around when someone's hurt. And if you're not sure if it's broken, calling 911 gets it assessed and if they do not need to transport, AFAIK there's no charge.

As far as costs which someone else raised, most medical programs are shiatty for poor people, unless you're a child under 18. Most states have incredible programs for kids, because where some people don't give a fark about poor adults, kids are seen as 'innocent' of their circumstance. (I don't buy that shiat, but some do). So if you're poor, it's probably covered for your kids. If you're not poor, it may suck but you can pay for it. It sucks having to pay for a cast too. Or a cavity.

//so glad she has no kids. So glad.
 
2013-09-22 10:59:16 PM  
When you hire inhuman people to teach your children you get inhuman responses to situations such as this. The teachers first thought in this case was themselves, not what was right for the kid.
 
2013-09-22 11:06:15 PM  
Are you people insane? You don't call 911 and incur thousands of dollars in bills for a non emergency.
No one at school is authorized to take a child off grounds for any reason.
Where I live it's $2500 just for the ambulance.
They did exactly as most parents would have wanted them to.
Kids break bones thousands of times a year at school, it's just part of life.

/they should have had an ice pack
 
2013-09-22 11:10:36 PM  

optikeye: GDubDub: @drewcurtis Can you please effing stop linking with auto redirects? It sucks on phones.

Ohhh...someone thinks drew personally green lights and inspects each link. That's precious


Also that this place works like twitter?
 
2013-09-22 11:11:46 PM  

daisygrrl: RoyBatty: Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?

Just the loco part.

(I fell off the monkey bars and broke my arm too...)

So did I! They called my parents after I told them it was broken (their first reaction was to tell me to walk it off). I had to wait in the nurse's office and didn't even get any ice (or ice cream...)

Too bad it happened in the eighties. My parents didn't sue and didn't switch my school. They just told me to learn how to fall better and bought me a happy meal on the ride home from the hospital.

/css


Now that you mention it, and this was at least 4 decades ago, I remember them saying "it might be broken" and my telling them "Oh, it's definitely broken."

(There's a very cool story of my 6th grade teacher leading a field trip to the tide pools (which was actually a disguised tax payer funded graduation beach party), and my mom helping me wrap up my cast in plastic wrap so I could go into the water, but that's for a different thread.)
 
2013-09-22 11:13:29 PM  

grimlock1972: School messed up, they were too busy trying to cover their asses to get the child the medical care she needed.


Not the schools job.
Your kid, your problem.
They aren't farking babysitters.
 
2013-09-22 11:15:11 PM  

Dwindle: Are you people insane? You don't call 911 and incur thousands of dollars in bills for a non emergency.

"Thousands of dollars?"

Jesus Christ, what country do YOU live in?

"Non-emergency?" Jesus Christ, BRO. KEN. ARM.

Do you live in the equatorial province of Lesser Guam, or something?
 
2013-09-22 11:15:45 PM  
I'd have to see an X-ray before I pass judgement.

Could have been a greenstick fracture. Most people don't even know those exist.
 
2013-09-22 11:16:50 PM  

Gyrfalcon: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

1. Yes you do.
2. No they can't.

Broken bones can and often do cause considerably more serious damage than you see on TV. Compound fractures can sever blood vessels, tendons, and in any case need to be evaluated by doctors after an X-ray and/or MRI. Yes, the school would be liable for TAKING the kid to the hospital--that's why you call 911 and let some trained medics make that call. If the paramedics arrive and say "This kid needs to go to the ER," then she goes--the ER has to take her, the school has to let her, and the parents have limited lawsuit options after that. If the medics say "She can wait," then the school is absolved of the liability they're going to get nailed with after this little fiasco.

Paramedics are always your first line of defense against injury and lawsuits. That's what 911 is for, people.


Pretty dang much. When I was bouncing, that's why we had an incident log, you had something go futzy, you called 911. You logged what happened, you compared notes with the paramedics, you got names, you handed folks off to them, or you talked to the police for a minute or two. Or ten or twenty depending on the incident. When I was teaching, for DAMN sure you called 911 in the case of an emergency, AND the parents. Parents might decide that they'd rather drive the kid to the hospital, but in the case of a serious injury, that was beyond the school nurse's ability--you called 911. There's a difference between a bloody nose from a dodgeball, and a broken bone. Well, to be fair, a dodgeball injury can break a nose, but there's a reason that you use some f*cking judgment.
 
2013-09-22 11:21:00 PM  

weltallica: Dwindle: Are you people insane? You don't call 911 and incur thousands of dollars in bills for a non emergency.

"Thousands of dollars?" Jesus Christ, what country do YOU live in?

"Non-emergency?"  Jesus Christ, BRO. KEN. ARM.

Do you live in the equatorial province of Lesser Guam, or something?


Yes, a BRO KEN ARM is not a serious medical emergency. You have hours to treat it properly and even in the worst cases death is not going to result without outside factors, like other trauma from the injury that also caused the broken arm.

It sucks when your arm is broke, and the lack of ice packs is disturbing, but a broken arm isn't like a heroin OD or a disembowelment. It's not a priority medical emergency.
 
2013-09-22 11:23:16 PM  

weltallica: Dwindle: Are you people insane? You don't call 911 and incur thousands of dollars in bills for a non emergency.

"Thousands of dollars?" Jesus Christ, what country do YOU live in?

"Non-emergency?"  Jesus Christ, BRO. KEN. ARM.

Do you live in the equatorial province of Lesser Guam, or something?


I'm expecting someone to say they should've just pulled it straight and strapped some boards to it. $13.00 at ACE hardware.
 
2013-09-22 11:27:08 PM  

Lady Indica: weltallica: Dwindle: Are you people insane? You don't call 911 and incur thousands of dollars in bills for a non emergency.

"Thousands of dollars?" Jesus Christ, what country do YOU live in?

"Non-emergency?"  Jesus Christ, BRO. KEN. ARM.

Do you live in the equatorial province of Lesser Guam, or something?

I'm expecting someone to say they should've just pulled it straight and strapped some boards to it. $13.00 at ACE hardware.


Nah, these days they graft the bone to titanium. They sell titanium sporks at the camping supply store. $7.00 a pop. That and some duct tape...
 
2013-09-22 11:32:11 PM  

Albino Squid: When I was in fourth grade, I broke my finger playing kickball during lunch. My teacher, on the basis of his degree in kinesiology, declared that it wasn't broken, and I was fine. Immediately after lunch? Picture day...despite the best efforts of the photographer, I didn't muster much of a smile.


Fourth grade was awesome, wasn't it.

/spent 3/4 of the year sitting in the hallway, and the rest on recess.
 
2013-09-22 11:33:00 PM  

EdgeRunner: skinink: Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.

That's nothing. A friend of mine was babysitting some kids one Halloween night, and this escaped mental patient showed up and stabbed all her friends across the street, then broke in on her and the kids and tried to finish them off too. She had to send the kids screaming down the road for help because nobody's parents could be found. Her worthless mom and dad didn't even show up after she'd been taken to the hospital to be treated for knife wounds and shock.

Come to think of it, she had a lot of problems on almost every Halloween night that followed, and her parents were always conveniently missing. I think they were in on it.


You magnificent bastard.
 
2013-09-22 11:39:38 PM  
Don't worry everyone.  This is a charter school.  The free market will sort this out.
 
2013-09-22 11:43:18 PM  
I don't think you all understand the potential severity of a broken bone.  What this school district did was not within guidelines and I'd be surprised if they didn't get sued.
 
2013-09-22 11:43:43 PM  
I broke my wrist in grade school (this was in the '90s).  No ambulance, they called my parents, who picked me up and took me to the doctor.

My friend's little sister fell off the monkey bars once at the same grade school, and broke both of her arms (tried to put her hands out to catch herself but was too slow, instead landed with both forearms parallel to the ground; compression fractures in both humeri).  No ambulance, they called her mom, who took her to the ER.  My brother fractured his arm twice during his time as a student at that school, and again, no 911 calls.  I knew of other kids who broke fingers, hands, and arms at various times at that school, and no 911 call was ever placed.

And you know something?  Not a single parent ever thought that was an issue.  For non-life-threatening injuries, the school called your emergency contacts.  911 was only for truly dire injuries.  And to me, that seems perfectly reasonable.  Given that the kid in question was 7, she most likely had a greenstick fracture, which is hardly a dire injury.
 
2013-09-22 11:56:35 PM  
Now this little girls mom will be able to buy her grills and spinners


// got nuttin boss
 
2013-09-23 12:01:21 AM  

ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens


Actually, you really should, unless it has already been enough time that you know no further injury has occurred.

Take it from me, I have led a very stupid, unlucky life. Broken bones need attention immediately. Farking IMMEDIATELY. What you think is a simple fracture could end your life within a few hours.
 
2013-09-23 12:01:50 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-23 12:02:44 AM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: Now this little girls mom will be able to buy her grills and spinners


// got nuttin boss


If you fell down a well and died, the world's average IQ would rise.
 
2013-09-23 12:03:32 AM  

LavenderWolf: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

Actually, you really should, unless it has already been enough time that you know no further injury has occurred.

Take it from me, I have led a very stupid, unlucky life. Broken bones need attention immediately. Farking IMMEDIATELY. What you think is a simple fracture could end your life within a few hours.


She fell off the monkey bars no out of a plane.
 
2013-09-23 12:03:57 AM  

95BV5: I broke my ankle in high school, snowflakemitter and the school didn't do shiat but call my mom.


Similar, I broke a finger playing some made up game the PE coach thought up.  Mom made the school cover the medical cost.  Then when I had to sit out of PE, per doctors orders due to possible ligament damage, the same coach docked my class grade because he didn't believe I had a broken finger.  His reason, the new plastic splint just being introduced that only requires a single piece of tape, just didn't look real to him.  Stupid jerk couldn't figure out why I turned him down flat the following year for his invitation to join track.

Two years prior, I wrecked my bike and got a nasty goose egg over my right eye.  Mom knew how to treat concussions the old school way, so I got tylenol and stayed awake most of the night.  My next day of school, I show up with most of the swelling still there and they freak out.  They screamed at my mom, she came down and took me in, they found I was battered but okay.  Yes, mom made them pay for the hospital trip.

The same year I broke my finger, I threw up in class.  They called my mom, and like before she gave them permission to release me on my own.  They chose not to do it that time, so instead I went back to class still sick.  I threw up a second time in class, and again they sent me back to class this time stinking of puke.  Teacher sent me back to office, and I sat till school ended and still had to walk home.  At no point being allowed to lay down, tylenol or get water while waiting in the office.

This mom has no complaint.

/my mom worked full time, so it took something serious for her to get me
 
2013-09-23 12:14:56 AM  

Lachwen: I broke my wrist in grade school (this was in the '90s).  No ambulance, they called my parents, who picked me up and took me to the doctor.

My friend's little sister fell off the monkey bars once at the same grade school, and broke both of her arms (tried to put her hands out to catch herself but was too slow, instead landed with both forearms parallel to the ground; compression fractures in both humeri).  No ambulance, they called her mom, who took her to the ER.  My brother fractured his arm twice during his time as a student at that school, and again, no 911 calls.  I knew of other kids who broke fingers, hands, and arms at various times at that school, and no 911 call was ever placed.

And you know something?  Not a single parent ever thought that was an issue.  For non-life-threatening injuries, the school called your emergency contacts.  911 was only for truly dire injuries.  And to me, that seems perfectly reasonable.  Given that the kid in question was 7, she most likely had a greenstick fracture, which is hardly a dire injury.


We've come a long way since the 1800s.
 
2013-09-23 12:17:42 AM  

sendtodave: Lachwen: I broke my wrist in grade school (this was in the '90s).  No ambulance, they called my parents, who picked me up and took me to the doctor.

My friend's little sister fell off the monkey bars once at the same grade school, and broke both of her arms (tried to put her hands out to catch herself but was too slow, instead landed with both forearms parallel to the ground; compression fractures in both humeri).  No ambulance, they called her mom, who took her to the ER.  My brother fractured his arm twice during his time as a student at that school, and again, no 911 calls.  I knew of other kids who broke fingers, hands, and arms at various times at that school, and no 911 call was ever placed.

And you know something?  Not a single parent ever thought that was an issue.  For non-life-threatening injuries, the school called your emergency contacts.  911 was only for truly dire injuries.  And to me, that seems perfectly reasonable.  Given that the kid in question was 7, she most likely had a greenstick fracture, which is hardly a dire injury.

We've come a long way since the 1800s.


This was in the 1990s, but hey, whatevs.
 
2013-09-23 12:33:44 AM  

sendtodave: We've come a long way since the 1800s.


No kidding. It gets a little tiresome to see all the toughguy "Well in MY day we wouldn't have called the hospital, we would have toughed it out!" Ya well, in your day more people died of various things. One of the things our nice modern society buys us is good medical care and safety equipment, which means less people need to die needlessly. It also means that ya, we are more "pussies" about things and go and seek care rather than just "manning up" and going on with things, hoping it doesn't get serious. Broken bones can be something that are no big deal, or they can cause complications. Know how you find out which one is which? You get a medical professional to check.

To see the synthesis of this in action, check traffic fatalities by year. You'll notice that they've been plummeting for quite some time. This is a combination of better safety systems and designs in cars, better medical technology, and cellphones, which allow first responders to be summoned faster. Net effect? In 1970 there were over 50,000 traffic fatalities, in 2011 there were about 32,000. That is despite the fact that the US population grew by 100 million people in that time and automobile ownership grew similarly. The reason is because cars got more safety features, and because people can, and do, call for help after accidents.
 
2013-09-23 12:36:16 AM  

Dwindle: grimlock1972: School messed up, they were too busy trying to cover their asses to get the child the medical care she needed.

Not the schools job.
Your kid, your problem.
They aren't farking babysitters.


Yes it is, from the time your kid arrives at the school or sets foot on the bus to the time they leave the school to walk home or step off the bus the school is responsible for the safety and well being of your kid.
 
2013-09-23 12:42:51 AM  

sycraft: sendtodave: We've come a long way since the 1800s.

No kidding. It gets a little tiresome to see all the toughguy "Well in MY day we wouldn't have called the hospital, we would have toughed it out!" Ya well, in your day more people died of various things. One of the things our nice modern society buys us is good medical care and safety equipment, which means less people need to die needlessly. It also means that ya, we are more "pussies" about things and go and seek care rather than just "manning up" and going on with things, hoping it doesn't get serious. Broken bones can be something that are no big deal, or they can cause complications. Know how you find out which one is which? You get a medical professional to check.

To see the synthesis of this in action, check traffic fatalities by year. You'll notice that they've been plummeting for quite some time. This is a combination of better safety systems and designs in cars, better medical technology, and cellphones, which allow first responders to be summoned faster. Net effect? In 1970 there were over 50,000 traffic fatalities, in 2011 there were about 32,000. That is despite the fact that the US population grew by 100 million people in that time and automobile ownership grew similarly. The reason is because cars got more safety features, and because people can, and do, call for help after accidents.


Good god man, she fell off the farking monkey bars.
 
2013-09-23 12:43:44 AM  

Dwindle: Are you people insane? You don't call 911 and incur thousands of dollars in bills for a non emergency.
No one at school is authorized to take a child off grounds for any reason.
Where I live it's $2500 just for the ambulance.
They did exactly as most parents would have wanted them to.
Kids break bones thousands of times a year at school, it's just part of life.

/they should have had an ice pack


The 911 call is free, dumbass. The paramedics respond because that's what your tax money pays for. You know, the guys sitting down at the fire house waiting for someone to call 911? You don't pay for that. (Well, not extra)

And if the medics respond and say, This kid MUST go to the hospital, then the school is relieved of liability--now a medical professional (the paramedic) is taking responsibility and saying in MY professional estimation, this child needs care and you WILL allow me to take her. If the parents cannot be located, or if there is no directive signed, then laws allow the paramedics (again) to presumptively act in the child's best interests and treat the child AS IF THEY WERE the parents. If the parents wish later to challenge the ambulance bill on the grounds that they would not have authorized it had they been there, well, that's what courts are for.

Now, if the medics arrived and determined that the child was in no immediate danger and it would not harm her to wait till her mother could be contacted, then fine. She would have been released back to school custody and all would be good (although I'm guessing that, if all the school had was ice cream sammiches for treatment, they would not have done so).

But in either case, it was not the school's place to make that decision without consulting 911 and to decide "There's nothing wrong" based on their complete lack of knowledge and the same post hoc rationalizations I'm seeing here on this thread. Call 911 and let them decide. They're judgement-proof. You aren't.
 
2013-09-23 12:45:47 AM  

sycraft: One of the things our nice modern society buys us is good medical care


No, that's money the school has to pay sending your snowflake by ambulance to the ER for every little thing. Then you'd biatch about that.

Or maybe the school would pass the bill for you kid to you. Then you'd biatch about that.

Or maybe the schools would each hire a full time EMT, taxes would go up. And then you'd biatch about that.

Some people just like to biatch.
 
2013-09-23 12:50:41 AM  

doglover: sycraft: One of the things our nice modern society buys us is good medical care

No, that's money the school has to pay sending your snowflake by ambulance to the ER for every little thing. Then you'd biatch about that.

Or maybe the school would pass the bill for you kid to you. Then you'd biatch about that.

Or maybe the schools would each hire a full time EMT, taxes would go up. And then you'd biatch about that.

Some people just like to biatch.


You are correct, they act like she fell into a wood chipper.
 
2013-09-23 01:21:51 AM  

sheep snorter: FTA: Academy?

So like a private school? Or one of them bastard charter schools.
People need to read them private school enrollment documents. They pretty well state that they can beat your kid and any injuries(by the school or by the kid) is not their responsibility.


A quick Google search shows it's a public school, a charter (no tuition).
 
2013-09-23 01:24:59 AM  

Dwindle: Are you people insane? You don't call 911 and incur thousands of dollars in bills for a non emergency.
No one at school is authorized to take a child off grounds for any reason.
Where I live it's $2500 just for the ambulance.
They did exactly as most parents would have wanted them to.
Kids break bones thousands of times a year at school, it's just part of life.

/they should have had an ice pack


I have seen some dumb sh*t in my years on Fark, but this is up there...
 
2013-09-23 01:28:49 AM  

RoyBatty: Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?

Just the loco part.

(I fell off the monkey bars and broke my arm too...)


Yep. I, too, broke my arm falling off the monkey bars, except the monkey bars were part of the Big Toy (one of those massive playground structure doohickeys). Fortunately for me, my school had ice packs and my dad is an orthopedist. But they didn't call 911 or a hospital either. Unless the bone is through the skin or there are signs of concussion, calling the parents first is normal.... or was in the 80s.

On the other hand, I broke my thumb in first grade, because they were trying to teach us to set a volleyball.... with the choice of either full regulation-weight ones or foam ones that were falling apart so badly you had to close your eyes so foam bits didn't fall in. Regulation weight ones are plenty heavy enough to bend a 7-year-old girl's thumb back if her hands are too far apart when setting, as it turns out. The damn nurse didn't even realize I'd broken it, and didn't even call my parents.... again, fortunately, my dad is an orthopedist. (Breaking your thumb turns out to entail an actual cast, not just a finger splint, btw. Don't ever do it. Especially your writing hand. >.<)
 
2013-09-23 01:35:15 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The 911 call is free, dumbass.


You sound insured and well employed. This is the first time I've heard of ambulances being free. Maybe, instead of wasting their money on "click-it-or-ticket" bullshiat that's already built into all cars by law they could go ahead and advertise "Cost of 911 call: $0 Cost of ambulance: $0 Being alive: Priceless"
 
2013-09-23 01:36:12 AM  

fusillade762: sendtodave: Were they stupidly negligent, on afraid of getting sued?

Because they're going to get sued.

And taxpayers will pay for it.

You know, I figured out that is a lot of what taxes are for. Stupidity insurance.

It's a charter school. Not sure taxpayers will be on the hook for this.


GOP-controlled Michigan. The girl whose Ivy League education is about to get paid in full is black.

If there isn't already a law on the books in Michigan that says that private schools can get their lawsuit settlements paid for by the taxpayers instead of the school itself in situations like this, then expect such a law to pass by the end of the Session (if not the end of this week).

Also expect said law to be carefully written so as to only apply to this particular case, and possibly have a Tort Reform™-style cap designed to limit her maximum potential settlement payout from "full scholarship at Harvard Law School, including room & board and Spring Break in Aruba" down to "10% off one semester's tuition at Hollywood Upstairs Medical College."

Finally, expect these provisions to also be carefully written so as not to run afoul of the whole "No Bills Of Attainder" bit in the US Constitution... or at least make it financially unfeasible for the girl or her parents to challenge that law.


/and if all else fails -- if they can't stop them from getting a respectable settlement through hook and crook -- then expect the Governor to send State Troopers to her house so they can "find" some crack, and use the existence of the totally-not-planted drugs to legally seize all their assets, worldly possessions, every last penny they got from the lawsuit, and also to pin down any pets they have and blow the pets' brains out with a shotgun at point-blank range
//did I mention that I'm a cynic?
 
2013-09-23 01:46:15 AM  

rkiller1: A quick Google search shows it's a public school, a charter (no tuition).


Well in that case, the lawsuit will most likely be paid for in full by taxpayers regardless of whether or not those turd burglars in Lansing pass the hypothetical "private schools don't have to worry about losing one penny to darkies" law I described above.

/still, I fully expect them to pass a law designed to reduce the new home they'll be able to buy from "chateau with a foyer big enough to hold a rugby scrum" to "3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage, oh by the way its copper wiring and AC ducts have been stripped out completely and it's in Detroit"
 
2013-09-23 01:50:46 AM  
Compound fracture, sure that's a 911 call. But a regular broken arm? From personal experience both times I broke an arm in the public school system (middle school) it was to nurse's office for an ice pack (one of those gel ones wrapped in paper towels) and a call to my parents to come pick me up since it wasn't imminently life threatening. Certainly the orthopedist's office was far faster (l waiting around in pain) and more cost effective than an ambulance ride to sit in an ER waiting for any real emergencies to go first. And no, this wasn't onion-belt days, it was the early 90's. Unless those are the onion-belt days now.

But the school in TFA should have at least had a damn ice pack somewhere. What kind of crap school doesn't have a simple ice pack? Kids get hurt, basic first aid supplies should be a thing to have on hand.

/CSB?
 
2013-09-23 01:59:07 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The 911 call is free, dumbass. The paramedics respond because that's what your tax money pays for. You know, the guys sitting down at the fire house waiting for someone to call 911? You don't pay for that. (Well, not extra)


Eh, not everywhere. Were I am air and ground ambulance service is a separate entity that's not part of police or fire or any hospital, and they don't receive any tax subsidies.
 
2013-09-23 02:12:13 AM  

doglover: Gyrfalcon: The 911 call is free, dumbass.

You sound insured and well employed. This is the first time I've heard of ambulances being free. Maybe, instead of wasting their money on "click-it-or-ticket" bullshiat that's already built into all cars by law they could go ahead and advertise "Cost of 911 call: $0 Cost of ambulance: $0 Being alive: Priceless"


I had a cataplexy attack (collapsed, couldn't move for awhile) in public and someone called an ambulance, and I didn't have to pay anything. I believe you're missing that if they don't transport you, there isn't a fee. So they can come see if you need to see a doctor immediately.

My CSBs:

I had a fever of 103 in gym once and tried to tell my teacher I was sick. He dismissed it, think he even called me honey. Guy was kind of a dick. I also farked up my knee in dodgeball. Knocked my legs out from under my and I landed on my kneecaps. One is still numb (the skin all over the knee) and I can't kneel with pressure on them because its extremely painful. I have to have all my weight on my shins or ankles. Waited forever to see a doctor for it, and the doctor did nothing (he was a shiatty doctor).

On the plus side, this thread reminded me of a few times when I had to go rest on a couch in the home ec room in high school that I'd forgotten and I think those might've been cataplexy attacks. I'd had trouble just collapsing in the hall a few times too, but I wasn't diagnosed with narcolepsy for years so I never thought about it.
 
2013-09-23 02:17:25 AM  

Glendale: Compound fracture, sure that's a 911 call. But a regular broken arm? From personal experience both times I broke an arm in the public school system (middle school) it was to nurse's office for an ice pack (one of those gel ones wrapped in paper towels) and a call to my parents to come pick me up since it wasn't imminently life threatening. Certainly the orthopedist's office was far faster (l waiting around in pain) and more cost effective than an ambulance ride to sit in an ER waiting for any real emergencies to go first. And no, this wasn't onion-belt days, it was the early 90's. Unless those are the onion-belt days now.

But the school in TFA should have at least had a damn ice pack somewhere. What kind of crap school doesn't have a simple ice pack? Kids get hurt, basic first aid supplies should be a thing to have on hand.

/CSB?


I dunno, I mentioned in my post that my experiences happened in the '90s and the only direct response I got was "We've come a long way since the 1800s."  So yeah, I guess twenty years ago now counts as long ago in the dim ages, when bear and bison swarmed the forest and the prairie.
 
2013-09-23 02:18:58 AM  
Reason school acted so badly? Our litigious society.

(1) Most hospitals will not treat a minor without parental consent for something less than a life threatening injury.

(2) Many ambulance and rescue services have started billing the callers/patients again for services rendered -- which can be quite pricey.

(3) Having the child taken to the hospital without notifying the parent first opens the school up for several lawsuits, which, even if they 'win' they have to pay out half the national debt in legal costs.

(4) The school probably did not have a legal release paper for the girl, signed and notarized, giving them permission to release her to emergency services in the event of an incident.

(5) Budget cuts have nearly wiped out the old 'School Nurse' who used to be on duty and on campus for just such incidents and the 'School Nurse' would have to carry liability insurance, paid for by the school. Parents will sue if you put a band aid on a cut without their permission.

(6) Since the incident happened on school grounds, the administration was probably trying to contact their lawyers to find out how much it was going to cost them and what they could or could not do.

(7) Budget cuts probably eliminated having an ice machine which runs 24/7, requiring the school to buy bagged ice or make their own in trays.
(7-A) Ice machines can become contaminated by frequent use, which might make a student ill, which can result in a lawsuit for medical expenses, pain and suffering and neglect.

(8) Chances are the school did not have a physical education program, where the coach would have had an ice machine for use in treating soft tissue injuries obtained by athletes. They probably did not have the program because the parents listened to their winy kids about how exercising is too hard and they're exposed to the cancerous sun and if they loose, their feelings get hurt, which can scar them for life.

Common sense goes out the window when you get lawyers involved.
 
2013-09-23 02:19:35 AM  

Ivan the Tolerable: Ivan the Tolerable: I_Am_Weasel: That was a shatia thing to do.

lol. isn't that some kind of form of adjectival past participle?

no matter, a very unfortunate name for a person to have at any rate.


It gets even worse:  her full name is Shatia Hill. It's practically Poo Mound.
 
2013-09-23 02:51:02 AM  

hardinparamedic: Peter von Nostrand: hardinparamedic: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm

You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.

Cardiac arrests and car fires. I hope I go the next 13 years without making another one. No chance of that though

My first car fire as an EMT was in 2005, about two months after I graduated EMT-IV. We pulled up before the engine company, and the car was already fully involved after striking a transformer. The guy was still alive inside, screaming and flailing.

By the time the engine company got there and put hoses on it, he had stopped screaming. We watched him burn alive, because there was no way to get him out.


Holy shiat.
 
2013-09-23 03:04:03 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: doglover: Gyrfalcon: The 911 call is free, dumbass.

You sound insured and well employed. This is the first time I've heard of ambulances being free. Maybe, instead of wasting their money on "click-it-or-ticket" bullshiat that's already built into all cars by law they could go ahead and advertise "Cost of 911 call: $0 Cost of ambulance: $0 Being alive: Priceless"

I had a cataplexy attack (collapsed, couldn't move for awhile) in public and someone called an ambulance, and I didn't have to pay anything. I believe you're missing that if they don't transport you, there isn't a fee. So they can come see if you need to see a doctor immediately.

My CSBs:

I had a fever of 103 in gym once and tried to tell my teacher I was sick. He dismissed it, think he even called me honey. Guy was kind of a dick. I also farked up my knee in dodgeball. Knocked my legs out from under my and I landed on my kneecaps. One is still numb (the skin all over the knee) and I can't kneel with pressure on them because its extremely painful. I have to have all my weight on my shins or ankles. Waited forever to see a doctor for it, and the doctor did nothing (he was a shiatty doctor).

On the plus side, this thread reminded me of a few times when I had to go rest on a couch in the home ec room in high school that I'd forgotten and I think those might've been cataplexy attacks. I'd had trouble just collapsing in the hall a few times too, but I wasn't diagnosed with narcolepsy for years so I never thought about it.


Dodgeball gave me a concussion -- I went home with a headache to sleep it off -- school called my mom later to say to go to the ER and not to let me sleep.

shiat, I realize now elementary school almost killed me a couple of times.
 
2013-09-23 03:19:32 AM  

Rik01: Common sense goes out the window when you get lawyers involved.


Shakespeare solved that problem.

doloresonthedottedline: I had a fever of 103 in gym once and tried to tell my teacher I was sick. He dismissed it, think he even called me honey.


He was a gym teacher. They're supposed to be dismissive of physical ailments. Most people are impressed when they are able to refrain from kidnapping the fat kids and forcing them to become athletes in a boot-camp style setting with planned meals and daily calisthenics.
 
2013-09-23 03:58:33 AM  
I can see not calling 911 for a broken arm. If it was a compound - obvious break then 911 should have been called. If no contact with parent or emergency contact then 911 should have been called and school acted according to parentis locos.


I am more bothered that the skill doesn't have basic first aid necessities.  In a school ice packs should be part of their first aid kits because kids fall all the time.  At my daughter's middle school they had real ice packs and they had paper towels frozen in zip lock bags.  If you got a real ice pack you most likely were going home.

Heck, I even think the first aid kit at my work has instant cold packs for injuries.
 
2013-09-23 04:34:16 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: doglover: Gyrfalcon: The 911 call is free, dumbass.

You sound insured and well employed. This is the first time I've heard of ambulances being free. Maybe, instead of wasting their money on "click-it-or-ticket" bullshiat that's already built into all cars by law they could go ahead and advertise "Cost of 911 call: $0 Cost of ambulance: $0 Being alive: Priceless"

I had a cataplexy attack (collapsed, couldn't move for awhile) in public and someone called an ambulance, and I didn't have to pay anything. I believe you're missing that if they don't transport you, there isn't a fee. So they can come see if you need to see a doctor immediately.

My CSBs:

I had a fever of 103 in gym once and tried to tell my teacher I was sick. He dismissed it, think he even called me honey. Guy was kind of a dick. I also farked up my knee in dodgeball. Knocked my legs out from under my and I landed on my kneecaps. One is still numb (the skin all over the knee) and I can't kneel with pressure on them because its extremely painful. I have to have all my weight on my shins or ankles. Waited forever to see a doctor for it, and the doctor did nothing (he was a shiatty doctor).

On the plus side, this thread reminded me of a few times when I had to go rest on a couch in the home ec room in high school that I'd forgotten and I think those might've been cataplexy attacks. I'd had trouble just collapsing in the hall a few times too, but I wasn't diagnosed with narcolepsy for years so I never thought about it.


Finally, someone gets it. Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick.

In a city, where this child was, the fire response is free. The transport is what is optional and what costs money. No drivee to hospital, no payee the money. And as I've been saying apparently to myself since people keep arguing that calling 911 costs money IF THE MEDICS DETERMINE CHILD MUST GO, SHE GOES. Parents have the option of not paying the ambulance later, saying they would not have agreed, and will probably win in court. You think this doesn't happen in other cases where kids' parents are unavailable and medics have to make a snap decision to transport injured kids?

Considering all the b/s calls medics DO roll on, if it did cost money just to respond paramedics to your bruised ego or annoyed poodle, cities would be rolling in cash. Since they are not, you can safely assume that merely calling 911 for a medical response does not cost money in any town of any size. There is nothing to indicate this child lived in backcountry Alaska or the depths of Wyoming where a medical response might have been more expensive.
 
2013-09-23 04:37:05 AM  
My son jumped off a slide at daycare and got a greenstick fracture in his forearm.  He sat in the office for an hour after they called me.  I drove over to daycare, picked him up, and took him to the ER.  A greenstick fracture in a little kid isn't a life-threatening injury.
 
2013-09-23 04:39:23 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Finally, someone gets it


What you don't get is that no one knows about this.

Everyone thinks it costs money. Not everyone can afford to fight bills in court.

It's nice to learn this information, but it's not relevant to the situation in the article because a bunch of elementary school teachers at a school so small they don't have an ice machine probably are not well versed in the ins and outs of medical billing.
 
2013-09-23 05:01:38 AM  

hardinparamedic: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: But yeah, I don't see why anything below a displaced fracture merits a 911 call. It seems more sensible to call the parents to drive the kid to the hospital, or drive them yourself.

911 for this seems a waste of the paramedics' valuable time.

It's not a waste of their "valuable time". It's their job.

Fractures, at the very least, are incredibly painful. Paramedics can provide immediate pain control appropriate for the level of pain that patient is experiencing. They can also perform proper splinting and re-alignment of the extremity, both preventing further injury to the extremity, as well as decreasing the on-going damage from an unstable fracture. In addition, it's far more comfortable and safer for that person.

A fractured humerus or tib-fib can cause a loss of around 1/12 the volume of the blood in the body. A Femur can cause 1/6th that volume to bleed out into the fracture site.

Paramedics can identify neurovascular compromise and injury, and either intervene to attempt to restore critical perfusion flow, or rapidly transport a person quicker and safer than someone in a private vehicle can to definitive, proper care.

It's not as simple as "oh, you broke a bone".

Peter von Nostrand: That was the old days before private ambulance companies realized they could make money off non emergency transports

Suddenly EMS became part of comprehensive community health care

You think ambulance companies make money off any 911 calls? That's cute.

The real money is in IFT transports. 911 is a general money loss, period.

And EMS has always been a part of comprehensive community healthcare. The only people who don't want to make it that way are certain industry unions who lobby for decreased professional standards and making an EMS License an add-on certificate to Firefighter I.

Community Paramedicine is a real thing. And if the Field EMS bill passes the house and gets to the Senate, it'll be a nationwide thing, rather than a regional experime ...


I'm an EMT in CA, and I never heard the term, "Community Paramedicine" before.  After reading a couple of the links, I'm still unsure what it really means.  What's your understanding?  EIP.
 
2013-09-23 05:45:15 AM  
I necropsied a peregrine falcon that had a broken wing and then died suddenly. Looked like a bone splinter had shifted while he was being worked on and nicked an artery.

I know people =/= birds, but I'm just saying, it's impossible to tell what's going on inside someone's body without, you know, looking inside. Broken bones can lead to nerve damage.
 
2013-09-23 05:48:40 AM  

cardex: On the scale of when to call 911 with 1 being you should go to jail for a very long time for calling including things like McDonald did not give me one of the apple pies I ordered or the guy at the cell phone place told me to make a test call and 911 was the only number I can think of. And 10 being you should go to jail for a long time for not calling including things like being in your 40s 9 months pregnant with a downs baby traveling halfway across the county when you water breaks but you decide to fly to Alaska from Texas then drive for hours to a small town doctor or your frat buddy had 3 5ths of vodka then stopped breathing. Calling 911 over a grade school kids broken arm with no signs of shock and no bones outside the body is about a 3 the only problem I see is letting a perfictly good ice cream sandwich get used like that


s12.postimg.org

You could call a cab.
 
2013-09-23 05:57:05 AM  
This happened to me as a kid. I broke the bones and smashed the growth plate in both wrists. Asshole nurse and school admins wouldnt call ambulance. Parents were working. I suffered for 6 hours waiting to get help.

I should have walked to a hospital.
 
2013-09-23 06:43:29 AM  
School can only call the police on your kid - and they probably have a couple in the building anyway to cart them off to juvie. Despite a million and one medical emergency forms filled out in quadruplicate, they ware unable to call 911 to take your kid to a hospital.
 
2013-09-23 06:50:24 AM  
I work in Pontiac....getting a kick.....etc..
 
2013-09-23 07:05:28 AM  

Sliding Carp: Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.

Who pays the $1000 for the ambulance ride, and the $300 just to walk in the door of the ER?

/number out of my butt, but not insanely wrong.


You're actually pretty accurate about the ambulance bill.

I had a heart scare two years ago, and the university infirmary called for an ambulance to take me less than two miles to the emergency room. It was a five-minute ride in a trainee unit, and for that I was charged $1500.

/ER diagnosed me as "prone to anxiety attacks"
//Gave me antianxiety meds which I will need to have on hand the rest of my life
///Grateful for the ambulance, but waaay to expensive
////Thanks, Acadian Ambulance of Lafayette, Louisiana
 
2013-09-23 07:37:51 AM  

maram500: Sliding Carp: Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.

Who pays the $1000 for the ambulance ride, and the $300 just to walk in the door of the ER?

/number out of my butt, but not insanely wrong.

You're actually pretty accurate about the ambulance bill.

I had a heart scare two years ago, and the university infirmary called for an ambulance to take me less than two miles to the emergency room. It was a five-minute ride in a trainee unit, and for that I was charged $1500.

/ER diagnosed me as "prone to anxiety attacks"
//Gave me antianxiety meds which I will need to have on hand the rest of my life
///Grateful for the ambulance, but waaay to expensive
////Thanks, Acadian Ambulance of Lafayette, Louisiana


But don't you understand? Ambulances are free. Fark told me so.
 
2013-09-23 07:48:56 AM  

maram500: Thanks, Acadian Ambulance of Lafayette, Louisiana


Should have signed up for them when the enrollment period was open.  Free market ambulances (well.. local monopoly), aren't they great!

Just down the road to the east of you, had the parish ambulance service drive my wife to the hospital once (really, really bad food poisoning.  She was out of her mind, demanding an ambulance).  Bill: $0.  ER was a different matter.
 
2013-09-23 07:51:53 AM  

wingnut396: maram500: Thanks, Acadian Ambulance of Lafayette, Louisiana

Should have signed up for them when the enrollment period was open.  Free market ambulances (well.. local monopoly), aren't they great!

Just down the road to the east of you, had the parish ambulance service drive my wife to the hospital once (really, really bad food poisoning.  She was out of her mind, demanding an ambulance).  Bill: $0.  ER was a different matter.


St Mary? Or Terrebonne? I wasn't even aware any parish had its own ambulance service. I've lived in Louisiana my whole life and just assumed Acadian was a governent-allowed monopoly.
 
2013-09-23 08:14:38 AM  

hardinparamedic: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm

You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.


I just lay on the floor and cough and punch myself in the chest when I get a lil infarcty. Works fine for me. Bunch of pansies.
 
2013-09-23 08:39:57 AM  
Government employees in action at a good old government school.


But home schooling and vouchers for school choice are bad.
 
2013-09-23 08:54:12 AM  

ransack.: hardinparamedic: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm

You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.

I just lay on the floor and cough and punch myself in the chest when I get a lil infarcty. Works fine for me. Bunch of pansies.


2.bp.blogspot.com

Don't worry, it's just another heart attack, nothing serious!
 
2013-09-23 08:55:49 AM  
I think we can all agree putting ice cream sandwiches on the broken arm is not the proper treatment.
 
2013-09-23 08:58:32 AM  
Sounds like Universal Healthcare would have eliminated a lot of the objections the school may have had to calling for an ambulance.
 
2013-09-23 08:59:46 AM  
Having broken my arm at a private school in '92 for which my parents paid a lot of money, they did the same farking thing.  Broke my arm, ushered me into one of the small side rooms and laid me down.  I was going into shock.  Who did they call? My father who has half in his death bed with severe bronchitis. I didn't even get any farking ice cream sammiches.
 
2013-09-23 09:01:21 AM  
It's true.  There are people running schools now who have no experience or knowledge on how to do certain things, and this is a prime example.  These people are being hired by people who also have no idea what the fark they're doing.  It's like a lib arts major weaseled his way into an IT organization and started hiring more lib arts-tards to do the job of the company.
 
2013-09-23 09:08:03 AM  

Target Builder: Sounds like Universal Healthcare would have eliminated a lot of the objections the school may have had to calling for an ambulance.


And tossing all the lawyers into the sea would solve the rest of the objections.
 
2013-09-23 09:20:01 AM  

maram500: wingnut396: maram500: Thanks, Acadian Ambulance of Lafayette, Louisiana

Should have signed up for them when the enrollment period was open.  Free market ambulances (well.. local monopoly), aren't they great!

Just down the road to the east of you, had the parish ambulance service drive my wife to the hospital once (really, really bad food poisoning.  She was out of her mind, demanding an ambulance).  Bill: $0.  ER was a different matter.

St Mary? Or Terrebonne? I wasn't even aware any parish had its own ambulance service. I've lived in Louisiana my whole life and just assumed Acadian was a governent-allowed monopoly.


EBR.  Orleans Parish has it own EMS as well.  AA has some fine techs working for them I'm sure, but their business model sucks for EMS type service IMO.  Its fine for patient transport.
 
2013-09-23 11:01:26 AM  

maram500: wingnut396: maram500: Thanks, Acadian Ambulance of Lafayette, Louisiana

Should have signed up for them when the enrollment period was open.  Free market ambulances (well.. local monopoly), aren't they great!

Just down the road to the east of you, had the parish ambulance service drive my wife to the hospital once (really, really bad food poisoning.  She was out of her mind, demanding an ambulance).  Bill: $0.  ER was a different matter.

St Mary? Or Terrebonne? I wasn't even aware any parish had its own ambulance service. I've lived in Louisiana my whole life and just assumed Acadian was a governent-allowed monopoly.


I'll be in Terrebone parish, like every year, mowing down Mama's jambalaya and dirty rice and uncle Boo's gumbo at Christmas.

My question is how are you guys on the inter webs? In my experience without my wifi hot spot it doesn't exist there.
 
2013-09-23 12:13:04 PM  

Gyrfalcon: The 911 call is free, dumbass. The paramedics respond because that's what your tax money pays for. You know, the guys sitting down at the fire house waiting for someone to call 911? You don't pay for that. (Well, not extra)


That hasn't been true in a long time.  There are an increasing number of cities that bill for each fire, medics, or police response.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/automobiles/05CRASHTAX.html?pagewa nt ed=all&_r=0

In California, Vallejo and Tracy are preparing to charge 911 callers, which is a good way to discourage good Samaritans.
 
2013-09-23 12:18:25 PM  

SlothB77: I think we can all agree putting ice cream sandwiches on the broken arm is not the proper treatment.


And we can also agree that they are a cool, refreshing treat. So there.
 
2013-09-23 12:32:54 PM  
Lawyers lined around the block wanting to take this one on.
 
2013-09-23 01:20:07 PM  

fnordfocus: Gyrfalcon: The 911 call is free, dumbass. The paramedics respond because that's what your tax money pays for. You know, the guys sitting down at the fire house waiting for someone to call 911? You don't pay for that. (Well, not extra)

That hasn't been true in a long time.  There are an increasing number of cities that bill for each fire, medics, or police response.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/automobiles/05CRASHTAX.html?pagewa nt ed=all&_r=0

In California, Vallejo and Tracy are preparing to charge 911 callers, which is a good way to discourage good Samaritans.


Yeah, I've been billed for 911 calls for pretty serious emergencies that were no one's fault.

Six months after a heart surgery I experienced a wildly racing heart and thought should I drive 3 miles to the ER or call 911.  I called 911 and an Fire Department ambulance arrived within minutes.  I was billed north of $500 for the ride, which definitely makes me want to rethink that decision: drive 3 miles or call 911.
 
2013-09-23 01:33:00 PM  

hardinparamedic: You think ambulance companies make money off any 911 calls? That's cute.


This.  He should hit the road with that comedy tour.

Just for anyone who really thinks like the guy that prompted hardinparamedic's reply:

An ambulance that is sitting still is losing money and trucks dedicated to 911 response are often sitting still.  In those parts of the country where 911 trucks are running all the time (large metro areas), many of the calls are medicare or total non-pay meaning once again the truck is losing money.

If your 911 service comes from a private provider, he's subsidizing that service off non-emergency pickups and interfacility transports
 
2013-09-23 01:45:13 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Ummmm, that's why I said make money off non emergency transports


In the EMS world, a call that comes in through 911 will be counted as an emergency transport even if said call isn't an actual emergency.

Where ambulance companies make their money is the scheduled three days a week pickup to take granny to dialysis and then bring her back to the nursing home.
 
2013-09-23 03:19:14 PM  
Ice cream sandwiches are delicious
 
2013-09-23 04:51:47 PM  

mikeray: LavenderWolf: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

Actually, you really should, unless it has already been enough time that you know no further injury has occurred.

Take it from me, I have led a very stupid, unlucky life. Broken bones need attention immediately. Farking IMMEDIATELY. What you think is a simple fracture could end your life within a few hours.

She fell off the monkey bars no out of a plane.


Do you have reading comprehension problems? Long story short, yes, you can die from a broken arm. Faster than you'd think, too. That's why emergency rooms have triage nurses, to recognize when a minor injury is not a minor injury.
 
2013-09-23 07:53:45 PM  
If this had been me, I would've put on my big girl panties and dealt with it. No way my parents would have wanted an ambulance called. They couldn't afford it and had no insurance.

On the other hand, I did learn the difference between life-threatening and non-. When I was sick, I didn't end up at the doctor unless my parents thought there was something the doctor could actually do about it. Viruses, for instance, were allowed to run their course.

I think I would have been more traumatized by the ambulance than the injury. If you make a huge deal out of something, kids are bound to think it's worse than it really is. This could even create a phobia of playground equipment.

Being told to suck it up is hard, but it's good that kids learn the relative threat level of various things. Pain sucks but it mostly won't kill you.
 
2013-09-23 11:05:45 PM  
pineapplesherbet: This could even create a phobia of playground equipment.


Good. The little troggs might learn a respect for gravity.

In the meantime, "Call a cab" is perhaps the most obnoxiously middle-class thing you could say in a situation like this. A cabbie isn't trained in stabilizing a wound, a cab isn't built to handle shock and heavy divots in the road while transferring minimal energy to the rear compartment, and perhaps most importantly, a cabbie wastes your time by fiddling with billing and the like the moment you get to your destination, costing you time between getting the kid into the hospital and treated for something that could very quickly go from bad to worse. 

Are ambulances free? No. They will bill you. If you have insurance, you'll get a reduced bill. If not, well, medical bills can be taken care of over time. A couple hundred in long-term low interest bills is a lot better than your child being permanently stunted for life because you decided to see if you could squeeze oil out of a penny. 

In the case of serious injury(Which a bone break applies as), 911 needs to be called no matter what. The possibility that it can go from seriously bad to a hell of a lot worse in the case of a bone break is astronomically high, and a school nurse is not trained to handle that. Hell, these days they can barely be expected to be able to handle stabilizing the injury. 

Also, Pineapple, I'm curious. How exactly would you consider an ambulance ride(With an O2 feed which will CALM the child) MORE traumatizing than "Hey, my arm hurts now more than anything in my life ever has and is suddenly the wrong shape"?
 
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