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(Opposing Views)   Student breaks arm, school won't take her to ER or call 911. School doesn't have ice for her broken arm, so they use ice cream sandwiches   (opposingviews.com) divider line 148
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14212 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Sep 2013 at 9:38 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-22 09:10:49 PM
What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?
 
2013-09-22 09:14:05 PM
That was a shatia thing to do.
 
2013-09-22 09:19:17 PM
You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens
 
2013-09-22 09:28:51 PM

ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens


The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.
 
2013-09-22 09:30:10 PM

Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.


I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either
 
2013-09-22 09:30:21 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com

I suppose peanut butter sandwiched were unavailable?
 
2013-09-22 09:36:13 PM

Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?


Just the loco part.

(I fell off the monkey bars and broke my arm too...)
 
2013-09-22 09:36:15 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.

I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either


If the parents can't be contacted then the school can give consent. As was mentioned above: In loco parentis
 
2013-09-22 09:37:09 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.

I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either


I would think they are required to provide card to an injured person, regardless of age, and the whole concept of  in loco parentis should cover consent.  I mean, do they wait to get permission to save a kid shot in the lung during a school shooting?
 
2013-09-22 09:38:58 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.

I don't think the hospital can treat without express consent, either


Nope. The school better call 911. The kid will get transported and treated unless a parent or legal guardian denies treatment. In person too. Over the phone is not good enough
 
2013-09-22 09:42:45 PM

Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?


The official designated 911 caller was busy monitoring kids' Facebook pages.
 
2013-09-22 09:45:24 PM

Fubini: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens

The school could be held extra-liable if they don't take the child to the hospital and something worse happens. Nerve damage, internal bleeding, bad set, etc. If they couldn't contact the parents immediately, someone should have been taking the kid there.


Legally the school has to call 911 and administer care until they arrive.
 
2013-09-22 09:45:54 PM

Peter von Nostrand: In person too. Over the phone is not good enough


Yep. I was going to point that out as well.

I worked in a *very* low income school district once. I had parents tell me to not call a doctor, or write statements to that effect on school forms. It's understandable, because these people are one car repair away from destitution (to say nothing of a medical bill), but that doesn't mean that the school would stand by and deny a kid treatment.

If you're not there, then you're absent. If you're absent, the school makes the decisions.
 
2013-09-22 09:46:38 PM
Is it racist to say that this little girl fell off of the monkey bars?
 
2013-09-22 09:46:43 PM
What would YOU do for a Klondike bar?
 
2013-09-22 09:48:05 PM

I_Am_Weasel: That was a shatia thing to do.


lol. isn't that some kind of form of adjectival past participle?

no matter, a very unfortunate name for a person to have at any rate.
 
2013-09-22 09:49:36 PM
I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.
 
2013-09-22 09:49:45 PM
Does it matter that the school doesn't have an X-ray machine or Superman Vision to accurately determine when a bone is actually broken?  Sure, if it's a compound fracture and the bone's jutting out the kid's arm, I could see phoning 911 pronto; otherwise it's a judgement call.

They called the parents. The kid is fine.
 
2013-09-22 09:50:09 PM
this is why we need more charter schools, stories like this won't be as surprising.
 
2013-09-22 09:52:03 PM

mikeray: Is it racist to say that this little girl fell off of the monkey bars?


Yes it is.

I also LOLed

Aisle seat please
 
2013-09-22 09:52:07 PM
Fist of all, it's a broken arm, she wasn't laying unconscious on the ground. Schools are required to call the emergency contacts in cases like this, that's why you give the school up to date information on how to contact you. Only when the child is in immediate danger would they be able to take her to the hospital (and the hospital be able to treat her) without a parent or guardians permission.
 
2013-09-22 09:52:16 PM

Fano: What would YOU do for a Klondike bar?


Nothing, I hate Klondike bars.
 
2013-09-22 09:53:39 PM

Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.


Only the known trolls.
 
2013-09-22 09:54:36 PM
Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.
 
2013-09-22 09:56:07 PM

skinink: Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.


Did she not have a darn phone?
 
2013-09-22 09:56:33 PM

Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.


Do you have kids? If so you may want to call the school and find out what their policy is because I guarantee one of those papers you signed when you enrolled them was about this very subject.
 
2013-09-22 09:56:38 PM
And my wife had something similar happen. When she was in HS. She fell and broke her foot. They called her mom, who wasn't home, and they refused to cal her emergency contact number because it wouldn't do any good (they said). The break wasn't finally diagnosed until several days later.
Me, I broke my wrist once in gym class, and my dad, who taught at the school, swung by my Bio class the next period (after I finished taking a test), and took me to the ER.
 
2013-09-22 09:57:32 PM
With the mounds of legal crap schools have to be wary of, things like this cause everyone to lock up and be afraid to make any move.

Some administrator somewhere is still praying the kid wasn't allergic to the red dye on the ice cream sandwich wrapper.
 
2013-09-22 09:57:35 PM

Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.


Who pays the $1000 for the ambulance ride, and the $300 just to walk in the door of the ER?

/number out of my butt, but not insanely wrong.
 
2013-09-22 09:58:11 PM
I broke my arm in fourth grade and no one called 911 or an ambulance.  Instead, they called my parents and I waited in the front office until the step-mom showed up to take me to the ER.
 
2013-09-22 09:59:49 PM
Man, that family is going to be neck deep in KFC after the settlement comes in
 
2013-09-22 10:00:40 PM

ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm and the school could be held liable for bringing the child to the hospital if anything happens


1. Yes you do.
2. No they can't.

Broken bones can and often do cause considerably more serious damage than you see on TV. Compound fractures can sever blood vessels, tendons, and in any case need to be evaluated by doctors after an X-ray and/or MRI. Yes, the school would be liable for TAKING the kid to the hospital--that's why you call 911 and let some trained medics make that call. If the paramedics arrive and say "This kid needs to go to the ER," then she goes--the ER has to take her, the school has to let her, and the parents have limited lawsuit options after that. If the medics say "She can wait," then the school is absolved of the liability they're going to get nailed with after this little fiasco.

Paramedics are always your first line of defense against injury and lawsuits. That's what 911 is for, people.
 
2013-09-22 10:01:33 PM

Saul T. Balzac: I broke my arm in fourth grade and no one called 911 or an ambulance.  Instead, they called my parents and I waited in the front office until the step-mom showed up to take me to the ER.


That was the old days before private ambulance companies realized they could make money off non emergency transports

Suddenly EMS became part of comprehensive community health care
 
2013-09-22 10:01:39 PM
Were they stupidly negligent, on afraid of getting sued?

Because they're going to get sued.

And taxpayers will pay for it.

You know, I figured out that is a lot of what taxes are for. Stupidity insurance.
 
2013-09-22 10:02:52 PM

RoyBatty: Bathia_Mapes: What part of In loco parentis don't these idiots understand?

Just the loco part.

(I fell off the monkey bars and broke my arm too...)


So did I! They called my parents after I told them it was broken (their first reaction was to tell me to walk it off). I had to wait in the nurse's office and didn't even get any ice (or ice cream...)

Too bad it happened in the eighties. My parents didn't sue and didn't switch my school. They just told me to learn how to fall better and bought me a happy meal on the ride home from the hospital.

/css
 
2013-09-22 10:02:56 PM

Sliding Carp: Lady Indica: I can't believe some people in this thread are that stupid too. Of course you farking call 911.

Who pays the $1000 for the ambulance ride, and the $300 just to walk in the door of the ER?

/number out of my butt, but not insanely wrong.


Generally, whomever signs the paper at the hospital saying they'll pay.
 
2013-09-22 10:03:17 PM
CSB time

When i was in 2nd grade my then "Boyfriend" fell in the playground and hurt his leg. I took him to the nurse's office. She was not on call that day and no one else would help in the office. I got a ice pack and wrapped it in papertowels and put it on his leg.

/1978
 
2013-09-22 10:04:16 PM

ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm


You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.
 
2013-09-22 10:04:40 PM
When I was in fourth grade, I broke my finger playing kickball during lunch. My teacher, on the basis of his degree in kinesiology, declared that it wasn't broken, and I was fine. Immediately after lunch? Picture day...despite the best efforts of the photographer, I didn't muster much of a smile.
 
2013-09-22 10:05:45 PM
School messed up, they were too busy trying to cover their asses to get the child the medical care she needed.
 
2013-09-22 10:07:27 PM

rkiller1: Does it matter that the school doesn't have an X-ray machine or Superman Vision to accurately determine when a bone is actually broken?  Sure, if it's a compound fracture and the bone's jutting out the kid's arm, I could see phoning 911 pronto; otherwise it's a judgement call.

They called the parents. The kid is fine.


You will know when you've broken your arm. It's quite obvious even when it's just a sissy little fracture.

But yeah, I don't see why anything below a displaced fracture merits a 911 call. It seems more sensible to call the parents to drive the kid to the hospital, or drive them yourself.

911 for this seems a waste of the paramedics' valuable time.
 
2013-09-22 10:09:08 PM

mikeray: skinink: Reminds me of the time I was babysitting three kids, and the boy fell and sprained his toe. I took him to the hospital, where they refused to admit him because I did not have a medical release letter from his mother. so for the next couple of days he had to suffer, and he couldn't go to school because he was injured.

I'm so bad as a babysitter. The kid had injured himself four hours after his mother had left on her business trip.

Did she not have a darn phone?


1992, the dark ages where cell phones weren't everywhere...and internet? Email? What was that? She was on a plane when he got injured, and I don't remember why a simple call from her meeting in New Jersey would not get him admitted. But the hospital insisted I needed a letter giving permission to admit the kid.
 
2013-09-22 10:11:09 PM

rkiller1: Does it matter that the school doesn't have an X-ray machine or Superman Vision to accurately determine when a bone is actually broken? Sure, if it's a compound fracture and the bone's jutting out the kid's arm, I could see phoning 911 pronto; otherwise it's a judgement call.

They called the parents. The kid is fine.


I've broken both my arms and it pretty hard to miss when they are broken.  I suppose someone could manage it but it would be difficult.
 
2013-09-22 10:11:30 PM
FTA: Academy?

So like a private school? Or one of them bastard charter schools.
People need to read them private school enrollment documents. They pretty well state that they can beat your kid and any injuries(by the school or by the kid) is not their responsibility.
 
2013-09-22 10:12:00 PM
When I was in the sixth grade a teacher decided that our free play at recess wasn't good enough and made each class participate in organized team sports that he ran. A friend of mine ended up falling down hard while playing baseball and asked to go to the nurse because his arm was in a lot of pain. The teacher told him to suck it up and quit whining. The kid came in the next day with a cast and sling.

Fortunately the teacher stopped trying to be such a dick and make the male students act like what he assumed was men. I guess he realized the bullet he dodged when the parents didn't sue him or the school.
 
2013-09-22 10:12:31 PM

hardinparamedic: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm

You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.


Cardiac arrests and car fires. I hope I go the next 13 years without making another one. No chance of that though
 
2013-09-22 10:12:38 PM

sendtodave: Were they stupidly negligent, on afraid of getting sued?

Because they're going to get sued.

And taxpayers will pay for it.

You know, I figured out that is a lot of what taxes are for. Stupidity insurance.


It's a charter school. Not sure taxpayers will be on the hook for this.
 
2013-09-22 10:13:06 PM
PS SHE'S BLACK
 
2013-09-22 10:13:48 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: But yeah, I don't see why anything below a displaced fracture merits a 911 call. It seems more sensible to call the parents to drive the kid to the hospital, or drive them yourself.

911 for this seems a waste of the paramedics' valuable time.


It's not a waste of their "valuable time". It's their job.

Fractures, at the very least, are incredibly painful. Paramedics can provide immediate pain control appropriate for the level of pain that patient is experiencing. They can also perform proper splinting and re-alignment of the extremity, both preventing further injury to the extremity, as well as decreasing the on-going damage from an unstable fracture. In addition, it's far more comfortable and safer for that person.

A fractured humerus or tib-fib can cause a loss of around 1/12 the volume of the blood in the body. A Femur can cause 1/6th that volume to bleed out into the fracture site.

Paramedics can identify neurovascular compromise and injury, and either intervene to attempt to restore critical perfusion flow, or rapidly transport a person quicker and safer than someone in a private vehicle can to definitive, proper care.

It's not as simple as "oh, you broke a bone".

Peter von Nostrand: That was the old days before private ambulance companies realized they could make money off non emergency transports

Suddenly EMS became part of comprehensive community health care


You think ambulance companies make money off any 911 calls? That's cute.

The real money is in IFT transports. 911 is a general money loss, period.

And EMS has always been a part of comprehensive community healthcare. The only people who don't want to make it that way are certain industry unions who lobby for decreased professional standards and making an EMS License an add-on certificate to Firefighter I.

Community Paramedicine is a real thing. And if the Field EMS bill passes the house and gets to the Senate, it'll be a nationwide thing, rather than a regional experiment.
 
2013-09-22 10:15:28 PM

Peter von Nostrand: hardinparamedic: ArkAngel: You don't need to call 911 for a broken arm

You don't need to call 911 for a cardiac arrest, either.

However, it's a good idea to do it for both situations.

Cardiac arrests and car fires. I hope I go the next 13 years without making another one. No chance of that though


My first car fire as an EMT was in 2005, about two months after I graduated EMT-IV. We pulled up before the engine company, and the car was already fully involved after striking a transformer. The guy was still alive inside, screaming and flailing.

By the time the engine company got there and put hoses on it, he had stopped screaming. We watched him burn alive, because there was no way to get him out.
 
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