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(Guardian)   British columnist demands world step in to stop civil war. In the United States   (theguardian.com) divider line 324
    More: Unlikely, United States, Lexington and Concord, global citizens, humanitarian crisis, Lexington, Kentucky  
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4546 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Sep 2013 at 4:10 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-22 02:38:23 PM
Too bad Britain lost their balls to do anything about.
 
2013-09-22 02:47:44 PM
Good luck with that. Your concern is noted, and in the mean time, don't you have a few nations closer to you that are in the throes of their own messes that you're steadily ignoring quietly?
 
2013-09-22 03:10:43 PM
The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.
 
2013-09-22 03:17:07 PM
Eh... only one side is really doing all the shooting. But if the UN wants to send some high powered weaponry over, I'll take some.
 
2013-09-22 03:21:00 PM
Bring it.
 
2013-09-22 03:25:47 PM

Shostie: The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.


Nono... trolling is saying something everyone agrees with.

At least, that's how it was explained to me.
 
2013-09-22 03:35:03 PM
The Finns are tougher than you Brits, ya punk.
 
2013-09-22 03:37:49 PM
Go away.
 
2013-09-22 04:13:49 PM
Bollocks.
 
2013-09-22 04:14:44 PM
Who would the UN send in? I wonder if our soldiers have been conditioned to shoot at our citizens


/listens to too much Alex Jones
 
2013-09-22 04:16:43 PM
That 212,994 more Americans lost their lives from firearms in the last 45 years than in all wars involving the US is a staggering fact, particularly when you place it in the context of the safety-conscious, "secondary smoke" obsessions that characterise so much of American life.

He does have a point.
 
2013-09-22 04:17:45 PM

SauronWasFramed: Who would the UN send in? I wonder if our soldiers have been conditioned to shoot at our citizens


/listens to too much Alex Jones


There's a few congressmen I wouldn't mind.....


Nope. Not gonna finish that thought
 
2013-09-22 04:18:33 PM
Sod off ya wanker
 
2013-09-22 04:19:29 PM

spcMike: SauronWasFramed: Who would the UN send in? I wonder if our soldiers have been conditioned to shoot at our citizens


/listens to too much Alex Jones

There's a few congressmen I wouldn't mind.....


Nope. Not gonna finish that thought


...to undergo that conditioning. That's what you were going to say, right?
 
2013-09-22 04:20:34 PM

Shostie: The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.


Then would you like to take a stab at explaining the 11,000 or so annual deaths from firearms in this country?
 
2013-09-22 04:25:55 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: That 212,994 more Americans lost their lives from firearms in the last 45 years than in all wars involving the US is a staggering fact, particularly when you place it in the context of the safety-conscious, "secondary smoke" obsessions that characterise so much of American life.

He does have a point.


He has a point, but as an American living in Britain I can tell you they're the last people who should be accusing us of being safety obsessed. There's a written safety protocol at my work for using a tea kettle.
 
2013-09-22 04:31:35 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Benevolent Misanthrope: That 212,994 more Americans lost their lives from firearms in the last 45 years than in all wars involving the US is a staggering fact, particularly when you place it in the context of the safety-conscious, "secondary smoke" obsessions that characterise so much of American life.

He does have a point.

He has a point, but as an American living in Britain I can tell you they're the last people who should be accusing us of being safety obsessed. There's a written safety protocol at my work for using a tea kettle.


From what I recall, they take their tea very seriously in that part of the world.
 
2013-09-22 04:32:26 PM
Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.
 
2013-09-22 04:35:02 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Benevolent Misanthrope: That 212,994 more Americans lost their lives from firearms in the last 45 years than in all wars involving the US is a staggering fact, particularly when you place it in the context of the safety-conscious, "secondary smoke" obsessions that characterise so much of American life.

He does have a point.

He has a point, but as an American living in Britain I can tell you they're the last people who should be accusing us of being safety obsessed. There's a written safety protocol at my work for using a tea kettle.


Our safety obsession isn't really the point.  The point is that we apply that obsession in an arbitrary and nonsensical way.  At least the brits are consistent.
 
2013-09-22 04:35:14 PM
His figures ARE pretty damning. The level of gun violence in America is among outrageous, there's no other way around it.

That said, how we deal with it (or whether we deal with it at all) is our business, not the rest of the world's.
 
2013-09-22 04:35:58 PM

The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.


I've already decided to boycott Chicago as a holiday destination
 
2013-09-22 04:36:43 PM
To be fair, the author does have a point when he calls us morans.

I'm trying to figure out what happened to this country after WWII through the 60s into the 70s even.  Was it an aberration?  We had economic growth and had a real desire to make good on the solutions we came up with during the Great Depression.  We'd take care of our own.  We built the interstate system.  We invested in science.  Technology was going nuts.

Was it the counter-culture movement and the Vietnam war that divided us initially?  Reagan's economic policies didn't help.  And here we are today where we believe that the only way forward is to screw your countrymen.

We can't feed ourselves.  We can't clothe ourselves.  We can't go to the doctor.  We can't go to college.  Why?  Because we're morans and can't see past our own noses - which is only temporary until we cut it off to spite our faces.

Can you imagine trying to build something like the interstate system in today's political climate?
 
2013-09-22 04:38:41 PM
60% of gun deaths in the US are suicides. Of the remaining homicide deaths, the vast majority took place between people who knew each other -- i.e., crimes of passion. Murders committed in the commission of a felony are relatively rare, outside of gang-related violence. Since a gun used in a crime is incriminating, guns are usually discarded after they've been used. Since they're not cheap, that's a good reason to avoid actually using a gun (as opposed to just waving one around) in the commission of a property crime. Incidentally, 70% of guns used in property crimes were stolen from law-abiding citizens who lacked the wit to install burglar alarms or hide their guns anywhere more imaginative than the drawer of their nightstand. So if we outlawed guns, for a while only criminals would have guns, then no one would have guns.

So is the US in the midst of a civil war? Obviously not. Now let's talk about airlifting dentists and cooks into Britain to deal with their problems.
 
2013-09-22 04:39:00 PM

HMS_Blinkin: That said, how we deal with it (or whether we deal with it at all) is our business, not the rest of the world's.


l1.yimg.com

would probably disagree.
 
2013-09-22 04:39:24 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Shostie: The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.

Then would you like to take a stab at explaining the 11,000 or so annual deaths from firearms in this country?


is suicide by firearm part of that number?  You can also discount criminals shooting other criminals, accidental shootings, and self defense/in the line of duty shootings.

So how many garden variety, put a bullet in a gun and seek out another human to kill, in the commission of a crime, and passion killings do we have each year?
 
2013-09-22 04:39:36 PM
Sounds like we'll need our guns and militias after all.. THANKS OBRITAIN.
 
2013-09-22 04:39:45 PM

The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.


Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."
 
2013-09-22 04:40:56 PM

SoupGuru: To be fair, the author does have a point when he calls us morans.

I'm trying to figure out what happened to this country after WWII through the 60s into the 70s even.  Was it an aberration?  We had economic growth and had a real desire to make good on the solutions we came up with during the Great Depression.  We'd take care of our own.  We built the interstate system.  We invested in science.  Technology was going nuts.

Was it the counter-culture movement and the Vietnam war that divided us initially?  Reagan's economic policies didn't help.  And here we are today where we believe that the only way forward is to screw your countrymen.

We can't feed ourselves.  We can't clothe ourselves.  We can't go to the doctor.  We can't go to college.  Why?  Because we're morans and can't see past our own noses - which is only temporary until we cut it off to spite our faces.

Can you imagine trying to build something like the interstate system in today's political climate?


You could stop locking up large numbers of young males and provide them with jobs so they can build a life, thereby giving them a stake in society and something to lose so they don't turn to crime.
 
2013-09-22 04:42:18 PM
Oh look another "America is bad click here and agree and generate us some yummy ad revenue. Because for every click, America is bad." article from The Guardian.

Also some of the comments in response to the article haha.
 
2013-09-22 04:42:20 PM

HMS_Blinkin: The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.

Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."


As someone who works in Harvard Square and constantly deals with hordes of clueless, blank-eyed foreign tourists gumming up the works wherever they go, all I can say is "Oh please, please, please,  please,  please,  please..."
 
2013-09-22 04:45:04 PM

clowncar on fire: Dwight_Yeast: Shostie: The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.

Then would you like to take a stab at explaining the 11,000 or so annual deaths from firearms in this country?

is suicide by firearm part of that number?  You can also discount criminals shooting other criminals, accidental shootings, and self defense/in the line of duty shootings.

So how many garden variety, put a bullet in a gun and seek out another human to kill, in the commission of a crime, and passion killings do we have each year?


My bad- the 11k number was homicides and did not include accidental or suicide..

We still shoot our selves intentionally more often than we shoot others though.  Eventually the problem will rectify itself.
 
2013-09-22 04:45:27 PM

clowncar on fire: Dwight_Yeast: Shostie: The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.

Then would you like to take a stab at explaining the 11,000 or so annual deaths from firearms in this country?

is suicide by firearm part of that number?  You can also discount criminals shooting other criminals, accidental shootings, and self defense/in the line of duty shootings.

So how many garden variety, put a bullet in a gun and seek out another human to kill, in the commission of a crime, and passion killings do we have each year?


why not count them, aren't they dead too?
 
2013-09-22 04:45:29 PM

clowncar on fire: You can also discount criminals shooting other criminals, accidental shootings, and in the line of duty shootings.


Um, how so?  Are criminals judge, jury and executioner over other criminals?  Are accidental shootings A-OK?  And would in the line of duty shootings even occur were it not for the very real possibility of the cop getting shot?
 
2013-09-22 04:46:18 PM
FTA:
Although it was brave of Howard Schultz, the company's chief executive, to go even this far in a country where people are better armed and only slightly less nervy than rebel fighters in Syria,

I'm better armed than rebel fighters in Syria? I don't own a gun...so what are the rebels fighting with? Dreams?


TheGregiss: Oh look another "America is bad click here and agree and generate us some yummy ad revenue. Because for every click, America is bad." article from The Guardian.

 
2013-09-22 04:46:29 PM
America is in a jam and that international pressure may be one way of reducing the slaughter over the next generation. This has reached the point where it has ceased to be a domestic issue. The world cannot stand idly by.


This could actually unite libs and Conservatives.

In our time, no foreign army has ever occupied American Soil....

WOLVERINES!!!!
 
2013-09-22 04:47:29 PM
Yeah, come over here and "do something about it". See how that works out for you.
 
2013-09-22 04:49:02 PM

clambam: HMS_Blinkin: The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.

Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."

As someone who works in Harvard Square and constantly deals with hordes of clueless, blank-eyed foreign tourists gumming up the works wherever they go, all I can say is "Oh please, please, please,  please,  please,  please..."


Why do you hate the tourism industry?
 
2013-09-22 04:49:47 PM

clambam: HMS_Blinkin: The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.

Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."

As someone who works in Harvard Square and constantly deals with hordes of clueless, blank-eyed foreign tourists gumming up the works wherever they go, all I can say is "Oh please, please, please,  please,  please,  please..."


When I was living in Germany, we called those "Americans."
 
2013-09-22 04:52:59 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Shostie: The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.

Then would you like to take a stab at explaining the 11,000 or so annual deaths from firearms in this country?


Two words: drug war.
 
2013-09-22 04:53:22 PM

HMS_Blinkin: The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.

Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."


And so the tourism wars start as our travel agents convince US travelers that Cancun in Fall is far more agreeable and buck-banging than standing out in the rain in line just to view some stuffy old vault packed with metal suits, baubles and trinkets of royal families past.
 
2013-09-22 04:55:34 PM

HMS_Blinkin: His figures ARE pretty damning. The level of gun violence in America is among outrageous, there's no other way around it.

That said, how we deal with it (or whether we deal with it at all) is our business, not the rest of the world's.


I understood the point he was making was that USA! USA! should have same standards applied to them, as they apply to others. Quick to condemn slaughter of citizens by their countrymen when it happens in Africa ("darkies need guidance") or Mid East ("let Allah sort it out").

But going by responses above, some Americans get all butthurt when an outsider points out how crazy the American gun culture has become.
 
2013-09-22 04:56:05 PM

clowncar on fire: HMS_Blinkin: The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.

Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."

And so the tourism wars start as our travel agents convince US travelers that Cancun in Fall is far more agreeable and buck-banging than standing out in the rain in line just to view some stuffy old vault packed with metal suits, baubles and trinkets of royal families past.


Believe me, it doesn't take an ad campaign to get Americans to choose an amusement park over a museum.
 
2013-09-22 04:56:23 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Shostie: The death toll from firearms in the US suggests that the country is gripped by civil war

Oh, f*ck off, you troll.

Then would you like to take a stab at explaining the 11,000 or so annual deaths from firearms in this country?


Accidents, suicides, and crime? If those things are what a civil war makes, every country is in a civil war.
 
2013-09-22 04:58:57 PM

The Name: HMS_Blinkin: That said, how we deal with it (or whether we deal with it at all) is our business, not the rest of the world's.

[l1.yimg.com image 850x974]

would probably disagree.


He knew the risks.  Or should have.  It's not like this is a new problem.
 
2013-09-22 04:59:29 PM

theknuckler_33: Accidents, suicides, and crime?


Oh, well okay then.  That changes everything.
 
2013-09-22 04:59:46 PM

HighOnCraic: clambam: HMS_Blinkin: The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.

Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."

As someone who works in Harvard Square and constantly deals with hordes of clueless, blank-eyed foreign tourists gumming up the works wherever they go, all I can say is "Oh please, please, please,  please,  please,  please..."

Why do you hate the tourism industry?


1) the English only make up a small number of visitors to our country- absolutely clueless when it comes to tipping
2) there are other European countries as much more interesting to visit
 
2013-09-22 05:00:46 PM

The Name: clambam: HMS_Blinkin: The Name: Actual, physical intervention is obviously a tongue-in-cheek idea, but a boycott of US goods and tourism would probably be appropriate.

Nations have the right to advise their citizens not to travel to certain foreign countries due to health and/or safety concerns.  It would be totally acceptable for any country to advise against travel to the US---we do much the same for countries that we consider "dangerous."

As someone who works in Harvard Square and constantly deals with hordes of clueless, blank-eyed foreign tourists gumming up the works wherever they go, all I can say is "Oh please, please, please,  please,  please,  please..."

When I was living in Germany, we called those "Americans."


American tourists at least reject the idea they're nothing more than mindless herd animals, but the tourists (mostly Asian, alas) I see walking slowly down the sidewalk five abreast, or stopping in a crosswalk to have a conversation, or pouring en masse into a restaurant or shop, positively glory in it. I can't even imagine they contribute that much to the economy around here, except for half a dozen tourist traps they all frequent.
 
2013-09-22 05:01:15 PM

The Name: theknuckler_33: Accidents, suicides, and crime?

Oh, well okay then.  That changes everything.


I tried that angle already.  The 11k are homicides not including suicide or accidents.
 
2013-09-22 05:03:05 PM

clowncar on fire: 1) the English only make up a small number of visitors to our country- absolutely clueless when it comes to tipping


The reason they're clueless when it comes to tipping is because they're civilized and actually pay their workers a living hourly wage and don't leave them to ass-kiss their way to making rent each month.
 
2013-09-22 05:05:55 PM

TheGregiss: Oh look another "America is bad click here and agree and generate us some yummy ad revenue. Because for every click, America is bad." article from The Guardian.

Also some of the comments in response to the article haha.


The Guardian is owned by a non-profit.

theknuckler_33: Accidents, suicides, and crime? If those things are what a civil war makes, every country is in a civil war.


If we're killing 11,000 people through accidental gun deaths, then we REALLY need to do something about gun education.

If we're killing 11,000 people through gun-related suicides, then we REALLY need to build a working mental healthcare system for this country, one accessible to everyone.
 
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