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    More: Sad, Alex Rodriguez, Lou Gehrig, Jason Giambi, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds  
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3568 clicks; posted to Sports » on 21 Sep 2013 at 8:17 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-21 08:28:13 AM
Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.
 
2013-09-21 08:42:35 AM
When all the players are on PED's, isn't the playing field leveled? Or are we all just (foolishly) assuming only the ones who are caught are the ones taking drugs?
 
2013-09-21 08:44:54 AM
Am i a geezer for being concerned about steroids? Am i becoming my old man, flailing about dollar gas?
 
2013-09-21 08:53:10 AM

wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.


One of those guys admitted to cheating the other is Gehrig.
 
2013-09-21 08:53:20 AM
Does anyone actually think that players in Gehrig's era wouldn't have used every PED they could have gotten their hands on?  Remember, this is back when cigarettes were advertised by "doctors" telling people how smooth they were on the throat.

Every record is going to be broken.  Besides, you can't have a grand slam without an epic fail by the opposing pitcher.
 
2013-09-21 08:54:17 AM
It's time for him to commission another celebratory centaur painting.
 
2013-09-21 08:54:49 AM

DubyaHater: When all the players are on PED's, isn't the playing field leveled? Or are we all just (foolishly) assuming only the ones who are caught are the ones taking drugs?


This, there wasn't any testing done but its well documented players will do anything to get to that next level. Cheating in baseball is as old as the game is. in 1917 there was a guy who enjoyed spiking players - when he slid into a base if he was going to be out he figured he'd take out the opposing player, that hall of famer is known as Ty cobb. If PED's were available back then I would bet your ass someone would be on them, since there was no testing who can say who wasn't on anything?

/Hotdogs and beer,  whatever - I love baseball much as the next guy but PED isn't destroying the game, its destroying the idiots taking them so its a double win.
 
2013-09-21 09:04:06 AM
I will give the headline a +1 Internets w/out an *   That was good

A-Roid taints another record
 
2013-09-21 09:13:13 AM

RAWISRADFORD: wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.

One of those guys admitted to cheating the other is Gehrig.


Oh, bullshiat.
 
2013-09-21 09:14:53 AM
My thoughts were best summed up thinking about the McGwire-Sosa home run race.

MLB players needed steroids to break records set by an obese fall-down drunk and a three pack a day smoker.

As for A-Rod, congratulations on using PEDs to surpass the accomplishment of a man with Lou Gehrig's Disease.
 
2013-09-21 09:28:49 AM

stoli n coke: My thoughts were best summed up thinking about the McGwire-Sosa home run race.

MLB players needed steroids to break records set by an obese fall-down drunk and a three pack a day smoker.

As for A-Rod, congratulations on using PEDs to surpass the accomplishment of a man with Lou Gehrig's Disease.


That's a good point, although Ruth never had to face Satchel Page, Bill Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Hilton Smith, Ted Radcliffe, Martin Dihigo, or Nip Winters.  You add a dozen Negro League pitchers to the AL, and his home run totals would suffer.
 
2013-09-21 09:59:17 AM

wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.


Aaron used PEDs, too, you know. He's admitted to using amphetamines
 
2013-09-21 10:03:22 AM

machoprogrammer: wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.

Aaron used PEDs, too, you know. He's admitted to using amphetamines


No, "greenies" are not in the same league as designer steroids and HGA. That's a bunch of nonsense peddled by Bonds apologists and repeated only by people with absolutely no knowledge of pharmacology.
 
2013-09-21 10:04:07 AM
HGH, not HGA.
 
2013-09-21 10:11:06 AM

Nabb1: machoprogrammer: wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.

Aaron used PEDs, too, you know. He's admitted to using amphetamines

No, "greenies" are not in the same league as designer steroids and HGA. That's a bunch of nonsense peddled by Bonds apologists and repeated only by people with absolutely no knowledge of pharmacology.


Yes, but aren't they "performance enhancing"?

You know what? Don't answer that. It's not like you care.

/Sadaharu Oh
/argument invalid
 
2013-09-21 10:24:12 AM

Great_Milenko: Does anyone actually think that players in Gehrig's era wouldn't have used every PED they could have gotten their hands on?  Remember, this is back when cigarettes were advertised by "doctors" telling people how smooth they were on the throat.

Every record is going to be broken.  Besides, you can't have a grand slam without an epic fail by the opposing pitcher.


So you think baseball is better now than when Gherig played?
 
2013-09-21 10:36:44 AM

Nabb1: RAWISRADFORD: wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.

One of those guys admitted to cheating the other is Gehrig.

Oh, bullshiat.


You are what you hate.
 
2013-09-21 10:40:11 AM

UNC_Samurai: stoli n coke: My thoughts were best summed up thinking about the McGwire-Sosa home run race.

MLB players needed steroids to break records set by an obese fall-down drunk and a three pack a day smoker.

As for A-Rod, congratulations on using PEDs to surpass the accomplishment of a man with Lou Gehrig's Disease.

That's a good point, although Ruth never had to face Satchel Page, Bill Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Hilton Smith, Ted Radcliffe, Martin Dihigo, or Nip Winters.  You add a dozen Negro League pitchers to the AL, and his home run totals would suffer.



True, but it doesn't explain Maris. He hit 61 against black and white pitchers, and he used to light up in the dugout.
 
2013-09-21 10:46:39 AM
Wasn't A-Rod suppose to be suspended for the season or something? What happened?
 
2013-09-21 10:54:33 AM

Aar1012: Wasn't A-Rod suppose to be suspended for the season or something? What happened?


Yankees.
 
2013-09-21 11:03:42 AM

stoli n coke: UNC_Samurai: stoli n coke: My thoughts were best summed up thinking about the McGwire-Sosa home run race.

MLB players needed steroids to break records set by an obese fall-down drunk and a three pack a day smoker.

As for A-Rod, congratulations on using PEDs to surpass the accomplishment of a man with Lou Gehrig's Disease.

That's a good point, although Ruth never had to face Satchel Page, Bill Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Hilton Smith, Ted Radcliffe, Martin Dihigo, or Nip Winters.  You add a dozen Negro League pitchers to the AL, and his home run totals would suffer.


True, but it doesn't explain Maris. He hit 61 against black and white pitchers, and he used to light up in the dugout.


Part of it is that 1961 was a crazy good year for offense in the AL. The league expanded by two teams and one of them played in a bandbox (Angels at LA Wrigley Field).

Norm Cash had one of the great outlier years in history. I know BA isn't end all be all, but he hit .361 that year. He never hit over .300 in any other year in his career.

Maris had the talent, but the stars aligned just right for him in '61. He had a great year and the offensive environment was incredible.
 
2013-09-21 11:04:22 AM

UNC_Samurai: stoli n coke: My thoughts were best summed up thinking about the McGwire-Sosa home run race.

MLB players needed steroids to break records set by an obese fall-down drunk and a three pack a day smoker.

As for A-Rod, congratulations on using PEDs to surpass the accomplishment of a man with Lou Gehrig's Disease.

That's a good point, although Ruth never had to face Satchel Page, Bill Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Hilton Smith, Ted Radcliffe, Martin Dihigo, or Nip Winters.  You add a dozen Negro League pitchers to the AL, and his home run totals would suffer.


Ruth played tons-possible hundreds- exhibition games and played many of those against the Negro League players. They couldn't keep him in the park either. Babe Ruth wasn't the one keeping the game segregated, he didn't give a damn who he played and I have a feeling his home run totals wouldn't have changed if everyone was included.
There's a book called The Year Babe Ruth Hit 101 Homeruns, written by a guy who claims he started out researching a book to prove Ruth was overratted and ended up coming to the opposite conclusion. It Might be a touch or so on the hype side, but it's an interesting read. Especially where this guy charts where Ruth's long outs and doubles landed in the old ball parks and shows how far into the stands they'd be in modern parks. But the author does mention barnstorming games where Ruth took Paige deep.

If it's possible, Gehrig and Aaron are way underrated. Had he not gotten sick, Gehrig would have easily gone over 600 homers and probably put the RBI mark out of reach of everyone. Aaron never had that one incredible season, just fantastic ones year after year for twenty years. Has to be the one of or the most consistent players ever. And yet, his name hardly comes up in the discussion of greatest right handed hitters.

Babe Ruth in today's game: probably a first basemen, in shape, not swinging a telephone pole bat, smaller ball parks, team management and fear of the press keeping his off field adventures more in check.......imagine how scary that'd be.
 
2013-09-21 11:12:22 AM

Nabb1: RAWISRADFORD: wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.

One of those guys admitted to cheating the other is Gehrig.

Oh, bullshiat.


He's one of the people arguing that he used amphetamines and since he used those then he probably used steroids. Even though steroids weren't thought to be useful for anything other than power lifters/strength competitors until almost the 80s.
 
2013-09-21 11:16:43 AM
Asterisks are for little children.
 
2013-09-21 11:18:56 AM

UNC_Samurai: stoli n coke: My thoughts were best summed up thinking about the McGwire-Sosa home run race.

MLB players needed steroids to break records set by an obese fall-down drunk and a three pack a day smoker.

As for A-Rod, congratulations on using PEDs to surpass the accomplishment of a man with Lou Gehrig's Disease.

That's a good point, although Ruth never had to face Satchel Page, Bill Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Hilton Smith, Ted Radcliffe, Martin Dihigo, or Nip Winters.  You add a dozen Negro League pitchers to the AL, and his home run totals would suffer.


Yeah that's bullshiat, Paige was the only one to be a real top flight starter in MLB, the rest are middle of the pack at best. The players in the negro leagues are greatly exaggerated, its why the HR totals of Gibson are so varied, most are pushed up like old southern folklore.

Not saying they weren't good but let's not act like it would affect Ruth very much, or the other elite players.
 
2013-09-21 11:28:01 AM

rjakobi: Nabb1: machoprogrammer: wichitaleaf: Aaron and Gehrig.
Still the record holders.

Aaron used PEDs, too, you know. He's admitted to using amphetamines

No, "greenies" are not in the same league as designer steroids and HGA. That's a bunch of nonsense peddled by Bonds apologists and repeated only by people with absolutely no knowledge of pharmacology.

Yes, but aren't they "performance enhancing"?

You know what? Don't answer that. It's not like you care.

/Sadaharu Oh
/argument invalid


In the 70s? No they weren't very performance enhancing, they made you jittery like really strong coffee, adderral today is what players love for its timed release effect over a few hours, hell the XR are over released over a day.

And you can't even compare the two since what Aaron admits to is using it once and feeling dizzy and sick, which was common for amphetamines back then.

Oh and fark saduhura oh, he wouldn't have done jack shiat in MLB, get back to me when Japanese leagues don't walk foreign players the rest of the year for getting close to the single season mark. These were middle of the road MLB players a they lit their pitchers up, I have no doubt that if a foreign player got close to the record no team would sign them to a contract.
 
2013-09-21 11:33:19 AM
a-rod: phony.
 
2013-09-21 11:43:24 AM
steamingpile:

That's a good point, although Ruth never had to face Satchel Page, Bill Foster, Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Hilton Smith, Ted Radcliffe, Martin Dihigo, or Nip Winters.  You add a dozen Negro League pitchers to the AL, and his home run totals would suffer.

Yeah that's bullshiat, Paige was the only one to be a real top flight starter in MLB, the rest are middle of the pack at best. The players in the negro leagues are greatly exaggerated, its why the HR totals of Gibson are so varied, most are pushed up like old southern folklore.

Not saying they weren't good but let's not act like it would affect Ruth very much, or the other elite players.


Not being a baseball historian or talent evaluator, I can't argue for or against your "middle of the road" comment.  But even if for the sake of atrgument it is accepted as true, I'm not sure that your conclusions follow from it.  Wouldn't a bunch of middle-level pitchers added to MLB rosters displace a bunch of crappy (or at least "crappier") pitchers that hitters of the day would have padded there stats against?

Also, just from a statistical perspective, I find it hard to believe that adding 12-15% more people to the pool of talent competing for MLB jobs wouldn't raise the overall talent level of not only pitchers but fielders.  Especially since that 12-15% has since proven to contain some of the most athletic and talented players in the country.
 
2013-09-21 11:55:17 AM
Can we pretend this is the Japanese Home Run record thread? Because that's far more interesting.
 
2013-09-21 11:57:39 AM
Why is A-Rod hitting 24 grand slams news? His stats are tainted. That'd be like giving OJ a Humanitarian Award for his life from 1995-2006.
 
2013-09-21 11:59:08 AM
Oh and fark saduhura oh, he wouldn't have done jack shiat in MLB, get back to me when Japanese leagues don't walk foreign players the rest of the year for getting close to the single season mark. These were middle of the road MLB players a they lit their pitchers up, I have no doubt that if a foreign player got close to the record no team would sign them to a contract.

Wladimir Balentein just broke the NPB single season record.

As to the other stuff, Gehrig and Ruth would still be elite players, but to suggest that they played against the highest level of talent is absurd. It isn't their fault of course, but facts is facts.
 
2013-09-21 12:00:49 PM

ladodger34: Wladimir Balentein just broke the NPB single season record.


And the SF Giants, at least, have already said they want to sign him in the offseason, though it sounds like he'd rather just stay there and crush the league again.
 
2013-09-21 12:07:32 PM

JDawgNJ: Why is A-Rod hitting 24 grand slams news? His stats are tainted. That'd be like giving OJ a Humanitarian Award for his life from 1995-2006.


what team does not have a tainted player? going to laugh when Boston wins the WS, their 3 wins in the past 15 years are all tainted. List goes on and on.
 
2013-09-21 12:20:50 PM

Misconduc: going to laugh when Boston wins the WS, their 3 wins in the past 15 years are all tainted.


Yeah, the Sox this year are rife with cheaters. Scrappy, play-all-nine-until-the-end cheaters.
 
2013-09-21 12:22:20 PM
This stat seems like mostly a measure of team performance, although I'll grant that Rodriguez's career numbers with the bases loaded (.346/.392/.713) is exceptionally good in a decent sample size (288 PAs).  A homer every dozen PAs is impressive.  So my reaction is "huh, kind of interesting."
 
2013-09-21 12:26:50 PM
Heh, and there was gnashing of teeth because a PED user holds a couple of records for a sport. Just let A-Rod have it. he's not the nicest of players but he got the record. If people are gonna get pissy about bad things a player has done, then there should be an uproar over Ty Cobbs. What a dirtbag. Him and all his records should be banished with Pete Rose.
 
2013-09-21 12:38:56 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Asterisks are for little children.


So beware vans covered in them!
 
2013-09-21 12:52:38 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-21 01:09:03 PM
Gehrig was a cheater too!! The whole time he had Lou Gehrig's disease!!
 
2013-09-21 01:17:58 PM
FWIW, bonds/mcguire/sosa/arod/palmeiro no longer exist.
 
2013-09-21 01:28:06 PM

Death Whisper: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 463x463]


Do you know if a gif exists for (or better yet have handy a copy of) ARod yelling "got it" on the fly ball to third base? I feel that is more indicative of his "competitive spirit" (i.e. underhanded to the point of breaking rules) that slapping away a glove.
 
2013-09-21 01:39:16 PM
Like it or not?  Then I have a choice.

So I won't like it.

/Go Red Sox
 
2013-09-21 02:16:52 PM

JDawgNJ: Why is A-Rod hitting 24 grand slams news? His stats are tainted. That'd be like giving OJ a Humanitarian Award for his life from 1995-2006.


I've seen some flat out dumbass comments, but you...you are special.

i149.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-21 02:34:59 PM

Death Whisper: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 463x463]


Here's a better angle on that:
cltampa.com
 
2013-09-21 03:06:32 PM

born_yesterday: Aar1012: Wasn't A-Rod suppose to be suspended for the season or something? What happened?

Yankees.


I believe at first the Yankees wanted him to be suspended because of the possibility of voiding his contract.  However now that they are i a playoff race, I am sure they are singing a different tune.
 
2013-09-21 03:25:45 PM

Aar1012: Wasn't A-Rod suppose to be suspended for the season or something? What happened?


Due process happened.

Had A-Rod been suspended per the terms of the CBA, he'd be suspended.  Instead, Selig wanted to make an example of him, and pulled a huge number of games out of his ass and suspended him for that.  So, it's all up in the air.
 
2013-09-21 03:53:42 PM

Dafatone: nstead, Selig wanted to make an example of him, and pulled a huge number of games out of his ass and suspended him for that.  So, it's all up in the air.


Well it wasn't a -completely- arbitrary number.. had he accepted the suspension it would have exactly equaled the rest of this season (at the time) and all of next season.
 
2013-09-21 04:17:04 PM

Great_Milenko: Does anyone actually think that players in Gehrig's era wouldn't have used every PED they could have gotten their hands on?  Remember, this is back when cigarettes were advertised by "doctors" telling people how smooth they were on the throat.

Every record is going to be broken.  Besides, you can't have a grand slam without an epic fail by the opposing pitcher.


Hey now...my Pall Malls are smooooth.
 
2013-09-21 05:10:52 PM
A-Rod is six home runs from passing Willie Mays on the all-time list. He receives a six million dollar bonus for accomplishing this. Hypothetical question: If it's the last day of the season, and he's one away from passing Willie, and you're on the mound, do you pitch to him?
 
2013-09-21 05:19:08 PM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: A-Rod is six home runs from passing Willie Mays on the all-time list. He receives a six million dollar bonus for accomplishing this. Hypothetical question: If it's the last day of the season, and he's one away from passing Willie, and you're on the mound, do you pitch to him?


Better question: does Hal drop hints to Girardi that maybe Alex should get the day off?
 
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