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(My Fox NY)   Remember when they said your E-ZPass wasn't used to track anything but your tolls on toll roads? Yeah, about that   (myfoxny.com) divider line 163
    More: Interesting, E-ZPass, New York News, New York Civil Liberties Union  
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20234 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Sep 2013 at 8:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



163 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-20 10:32:25 PM  
Thanks for the help guys.

/off to reprogram and test my V1.
 
2013-09-20 10:34:34 PM  

freak7: ThisIsntMe: So just have your nephew change the license plate every week. What's the big deal?

Christopher is dead, duh. They shot him and dumped him overboard.


Oh, and so in your world you only have one nephew?
 
2013-09-20 10:38:01 PM  
Google maps is getting your live traffic data from somewhere, guys.
 
2013-09-20 10:38:45 PM  

ThisIsntMe: Oh, and so in your world you only have one nephew?


The rest have had "accidents".
 
2013-09-20 10:44:10 PM  
Well crap.

3.872

time to go to the shop with it.
 
2013-09-20 10:46:50 PM  
The cities are missing  a marketing and revenue gimmick.  Put the ez pass reader at the entrance and exit of parking lots, and you can use your ez pass to pay without stopping and digging out cards, etc.   But this can easily expand to on-street, meter-free parking as well, and that parking can have variable rates depending on things like snow routes, pollution control days, where they pay you or don;t charge you, if you leave the car unused all day... local sports like a Cubs game in Wrigleyville, variable rate for local resident vs. visitor...   metal signs announce the rates, you decide if you wanna park there and for how long. Readers attached to passing busses and cabs or meter-maid cars circulate round the blocks and scan your pass every so often.

Turn this into a feature of commerce and convenience, and people will give up their privacy in a heartbeat. Willingly.
 
2013-09-20 10:47:34 PM  
So... can we trade police having access to an omnipresent traffic monitoring system for NOT GETTING AMBER ALERTS PUSHED TO MY PHONE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE farkING NIGHT!
 
2013-09-20 10:49:35 PM  

baltimoreblonde: RoyBatty: Hermione_Granger: Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I was thinking about this today. If had a decent enough high res photo of my license plate and put it beneath a holder - I think if it looked realistic enough, it could stand up to a visual test and beat the scanners because it would just be photo paper?

Just a theory....I'm willing to entertain all rejections as to why this wouldn't work.

[i.imgur.com image 620x729]

I call BS on that. As someone who's been caught by those damn cameras twice, I can say there's an easy way to prove it wasn't your vehicle: the images you get on the citation show not just the tag, but the car itself as well. Got some nice pics of my truck's rear end, and I'd know in a millisecond if it was my tag # on a different vehicle. Oh, yeah, I'd go to court on that one.


Well I suspect you should get off pretty easily but it's still a huge hassle and seems like a fun way to troll and payback the City Council, Chief of Police, etc.
 
2013-09-20 10:50:39 PM  

Daniels: Google maps is getting your live traffic data from somewhere, guys.


you mean its not from Arnie Pye in the sky?

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-09-20 10:52:21 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: Could just as easily use TPMS.  Google it: you have radios in your tires.


Your car radio can also be tracked. See how the ratings companies monitor actual radio listening habits. The BBC can do a similar thing with TV receivers.

/Not a tinfoil hat guy
 
2013-09-20 10:52:50 PM  
So this is how they get those real time traffic maps.  Cool.

I heard a bunch of government employees today complaining about how the government was going to use this to track them.  You work for the government, you jackholes.
 
2013-09-20 10:54:56 PM  
My podunk town of south nowheresville MA has had license plate scanners for quite a while.    They hoover up plate info wherever they drive including parking lots..... according to my cop buddies.
 
2013-09-20 10:57:50 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Ivo Shandor
It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I have read suggestions that RFID tags be put on license plates. Maybe you know something I don't but I won't take your word on it.


Optical character recognition is kind of old hat. It's been done on scanners for years. Scanners and copiers can also tell when you are trying to copy currency and either not allow it to happen, or distort the result for it to be unusable for counterfeiting.
 
2013-09-20 10:58:05 PM  

Strobeguy: Deep Contact: Creoena: Anyone who thinks the government and corporations are not spying on your every move is a fool.

/Nothing to see here
//Move along

Still not right. They work for us. If anyone needs tracking, it's them.

Thats why we have the second amendment


mass delusion.  we have guns so we have freedom!
 
2013-09-20 11:03:38 PM  

Hermione_Granger: I was thinking about this today. If had a decent enough high res photo of my license plate and put it beneath a holder - I think if it looked realistic enough, it could stand up to a visual test and beat the scanners because it would just be photo paper?  Just a theory....I'm willing to entertain all rejections as to why this wouldn't work.


It wouldn't work because while it's true that police departments disqualify applicants whose IQs are too high, they also won't hire complete retards.
 
2013-09-20 11:03:57 PM  
We've known this shiat for a decade, it was in the papers, people freaked out, etc.
 
2013-09-20 11:06:18 PM  
Why do people keep complaining about privacy?  The USA gave that up about 12 years ago.
 
2013-09-20 11:06:50 PM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I don't see what the problem is.

If you're not doing anything wrong, why have a problem with being tracked everywhere you go?


You know how I know you're not Jewish?
 
2013-09-20 11:18:29 PM  

HairBolus: ISO15693: There are countless RFID systems using the UHF band around 900Mhz. You can buy UHF band detectors very cheaply, walk around any modern city or mall, and see for yourself. His detector would certainly "Moo" if he drove down my street, within 300 feet or so of my home office, yet it would have absolutely nothing to do with any of the fear-mongering claims he is making, absolutely nothing to do with EZ-pass- it would just be my own UHF rfid projects or possibly the local grocery store (many of those use UHF inventory control systems)

If I am "one of those guys", its only because this is my profession, and I make my living by being an expert in RFID systems. (ISO15693 is an RFID protocol in the HF 13.56 Mhz range, but I have been focused on long range UHF ~900 mhz rfid for the past 3 years, such as what the EZ-pass system uses)

This guy is very, very, silly. It's silliness crafted to generate fear and,,, wait a sec

You could try reading his DEFCON PDF. On page 85 he explains how he detects when the "active RDIF" is active and then shows photos of the readers that activate it.


That pdf negated the argument how?
 
2013-09-20 11:20:33 PM  
The Millennial Generation is ripe for the rise of authoritarianism. Most seem to have no concept of my ubiquitous surveillance is a bad thing.
 
2013-09-20 11:21:08 PM  

Prophet of Loss: The Millennial Generation is ripe for the rise of authoritarianism. Most seem to have no concept of why ubiquitous surveillance is a bad thing.

 
2013-09-20 11:22:33 PM  
I don't have a car so they can't track me and have no idea where I'm at hahahahaha

Hold on, my cell phone's ringing.
 
2013-09-20 11:27:54 PM  

AltheaToldMe: Mark Ratner: We're being tracked everywhere! I blame the jews and HAARP.

[www.historylives.com image 440x383]


www.bitlogic.com
 
2013-09-20 11:43:46 PM  
bicycles only
 
2013-09-20 11:45:41 PM  
I heard one has to pay the

images1.wikia.nocookie.net

to get into that boy's hole.
 
2013-09-20 11:56:45 PM  

Jim_Callahan: On the one hand, this use of the tags should be disclosed.

On the other hand, I don't think that people have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding what they do with their 20-foot, two-ton metal vehicle with clear individual marks at both ends on roadways used by thousands or millions of other people.  It's a reasonable discussion to have, yes, thus the disclosure, but I don't think it's necessarily something one should automatically win.

ISO15693: I'm an RFID sw/fw engineer. My analogy was that many systems use UHF-band RFID carriers in the ~900 Mhz range, like the EZ-Pass, but that his "detection" system was only set up to notice UHF broadcasts in that frequency range, and may have had as little to do with EZ-Pass as your library card barcode does to your grocery store.

Firstly, there's no information in TFA about the device.  He may have been monitoring the device response itself, not general incoming signals. So it may be more specific than that.


He posted his schematics. The cow moos when the tag is read (ostensibly it's EPC) which would happen from any number of UHF systems broadcasting inventory commands. His cow would moo in walmart, or near a DHL office.

Secondly, the read distance on passive tags is something like 20 feet, so if you're driving around and getting pinged then it's probably something on the actual road.

The read distance of standard UHF tags in the 900Mhz range is up to about 30m or about 100 feet. That's for standard C1G2 passive tags. For C3, its 100 meters, but thats battery assisted passive, and fairly new. He

Thirdly, the news contacted NYC-DoT and the city told them that the readers were theirs and that they were using them to monitor vehicles.

Ok? Did they say whose vehicles? I've had RFID clients who use UHF to monitor their own fleets. I've helped install similar systems. Yes, it notices tags from other systems when they come by, but you know what?  - they ignore that data, because it isnt what they are concerned about. Most of the time the EPC code is utterly meaningless other than identifying the manufacturer of the IC embedded in the tag is (NXP, TI, Fujitsu, etc) - Fedex, DHL, UPS, and other uncountable shipping companies use rfid to track their fleets, pallets, people, all using tags that would be "read" just as an "EZ-Pass" tag would be "read". But the EPC data is only meaningful if it is cross referenced to some database. And any other data on the data isn't read in these inventory broadcasts - that would require additional, targeted commands. Making the jump that the type of "reading" that he detects is sinister is, like I mentioned, as silly as making the jump that your grocery store is spying on your reading habits because they both use barcodes. Vehicles already have licenses plates to identify the vehicle, and they can already be logged visually - at an even greater distance I might add.

Now, if you found evidence that your tags were being -written- to, that's a whole other kettle of fish.  That would require additional, deliberate, commands targeted at specific tags. But there isn't anything anywhere (that I've seen) to hint that this is happening. That would cause some raised eyebrows, but not just tags wandering into random UHF fields and being activated. Even crazy rfid time-cube guy with the screaming monkey and mooing cow doesn't make that claim.

This guy's website is entertaining, in a sort of "grandpa forgot his medication" sort of way.   "It will become obvious to "watchers" you aredoing this" ...."The Watchers".. nice.

... your professional credentials are rendered somewhat less impressive when they lead you to say obviously stupid shiat that anyone reading TFA would notice are incorrect.  You may not want to bring them up immediately upon being called out on something legitimately dumb.

Rendered less impressive to you, maybe. That's fine - I don't have any personal investment in your opinion. I'm just letting you know that from a professional RFID guy's perspective, this guy is loopy, and probably schizophrenic. (The last part is my wife's opinion, and that is HER area of expertise)
 
2013-09-20 11:59:13 PM  
A government agency exceeded its mandate? I'm shocked -- SHOCKED!
 
rpm
2013-09-21 12:06:50 AM  

freak7: If any of this were true, we'd certainly have had court cases where this data was used to aid a conviction.


You think?
 
2013-09-21 12:12:40 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: Could just as easily use TPMS.  Google it: you have radios in your tires.


May have radios in your tires. The median car age in the US is about 2003 right now, which before the legislated TPMS phase-in even started in 2005. Some cars before then had them, but I suspect most didn't until the legislation took effect. If true, then if you select a random car off the road, it's more likely than not that it will not have TPMS.

And of course there's the range issue.
 
2013-09-21 12:14:31 AM  

ISO15693: This guy's website is entertaining, in a sort of "grandpa forgot his medication" sort of way. "It will become obvious to "watchers" you aredoing this" ...."The Watchers".. nice.


Always fun to read posts from engineers who read '1984' in college and realized it was more interesting than their EE textbooks.
 
2013-09-21 12:23:31 AM  

lifeboat: Is it also tracking my television viewing habits?

I knewthis would happen!


Never missed "Melrose Place" or "Lost In Space"
I've seen each "Amazing Race" and "Without A Trace"
But I only watched "Will And Grace" one time one day
Wish I hadn't 'cause E-ZPass now thinks I'm gay
 
2013-09-21 12:26:42 AM  

Mark Ratner: We're being tracked everywhere! I blame the jews and HAARP.


upload.wikimedia.org
What do  lamellophones have to do with it?
 
2013-09-21 12:28:19 AM  

styckx: They still aren't tracking my fapping habits though right?


1.bp.blogspot.com
You've been a very naughty boy.
 
2013-09-21 12:34:50 AM  

Oldiron_79: 1984 is now less dystopian than the current US.


Yeah, because we have to use razors for weeks on end, words are removed from use secretly, there is a video camera that can't be turned off looking at me at all times and yesterday someone strapped a rat cage to my face and farked up my ability to do basic arithmetic and made me think that one biatch gave me syph.

Man On Pink Corner: Always fun to read posts from engineers who read '1984' in college and realized thought it was more interesting than their EE textbooks.


Those are suck ass engineers if so.  Any decent EE knows Horowitz > Huxley > any boundary value problems book >> Orwell
 
2013-09-21 12:47:32 AM  

styckx: They still aren't tracking my fapping habits though right?


Ain't no 'puter large enough for that.

Or, my pron collection.
 
2013-09-21 12:52:41 AM  

gerbilpox: Man On Pink Corner: Could just as easily use TPMS.  Google it: you have radios in your tires.

Damn, I'd never heard of those. And they're hackable too:
http://arstechnica.com/security/2010/08/cars-hacked-through-wireless -t yre-sensors/

Every time I read the news these days, I want to surround myself with another layer of Faraday cage.


Now they are tracking you as a hole in the background chatter.

Ask Kenneth what the frequency is, and adjust.
 
2013-09-21 12:56:55 AM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: I think we could solve this with a simple compromise.  Anybody who works in any kind of occupation which tracks data on people should have all of their own personal information tracked and published in a central location.

Good for the goose and all that.

/no, not serious


Why not? Not just a central location but in the local newspaper. If their job is that important a little loss of privacy should be a small price to pay
 
2013-09-21 01:04:32 AM  
I wouldn't mind getting a detector the the FasTrak system used here in the San Francisco Bay Area.
 
2013-09-21 01:09:04 AM  
Well for those of us who aren't Liberals who masturbate at night thinking about red light cameras and tolls over every single inch of pavement, here you go:

http://www.stealthperformanceproducts.com/

Anti-Laser system:

http://shop.stealthperformanceproducts.com/Anti-Laser_c2.htm

Stealth license plates:

http://shop.stealthperformanceproducts.com/Stealth-License-Plate-5.h tm

And last but not least, buy a Valentine Radar detector.  I own all 3 of these.  Although my anti-laser cost upwards of about $1,200.00 that I found on a 1%er car forum.  My lefty leaning friends rage over my car.  They rage because I choose to not conform to the ways we police and info gather.  It's all in the name of control, and power.  Politicians do not care about you, they want your money.  I am not going to get a 43 in a 35 speeding ticket because some douchebag cop had a quota to fill instead of raiding the meth house down the street.  I'm not going to pay for a red light camera ticket because instead of spending the money they get from gas taxes and licensing fees to repair roads, they pay off union bosses that got em elected and build billion dollar light raid systems that move 10 people at a time while the rest of us are in gridlock.

The air pollution from the Smug that comes out of a Prius owner's ass has nothing on me.  Your butthurt tears sustain me.
 
2013-09-21 02:28:14 AM  

snocone: Slowly I turned...step by step...inch by inch...,"


I used to say that to my very young kids when we were playing monster chase.
 
2013-09-21 02:30:41 AM  

Enemabag Jones: Ivo Shandor
It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I have read suggestions that RFID tags be put on license plates. Maybe you know something I don't but I won't take your word on it.


The cameras work pretty damned well. However, you have to have a line of sight on the plate, which you can't always get.
 
2013-09-21 03:02:23 AM  

ciberido: styckx: They still aren't tracking my fapping habits though right?


You've been a very naughty boy.


That's the first time I've seen a man wearing glasses frames from the Sophia Loren collection.
 
2013-09-21 03:03:31 AM  

Satanic panic in the attic: Just get it over with already and microchip us all.


Embedded RFID has a very short read range. It's a lot better to use biometrics. Cheaper, too.

Heck, with sensor fusion and a lot of compute power (yay graphics chips!) you can merge several cheap camera feeds together to create a much higher pseudo-resolution, you can read iris prints from people, moving, at a distance. I've seen a demo. THAT kicked ass. Not very utopian, but it was masterful.
 
2013-09-21 03:04:15 AM  
High-end cars with GPS as standard are also being fitted with systems that feed back data on things like when the windscreen wipers are being switched on, when the ABS is activated, and so on. This is then used for live traffic information on weather and road conditions.  http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/06/inrix-real-time/
 
2013-09-21 05:48:33 AM  

rpm: freak7: If any of this were true, we'd certainly have had court cases where this data was used to aid a conviction.

You think?


Nothing in that story says they were tracking it outside of toll booths.
 
2013-09-21 06:22:18 AM  

pjbreeze: Why do people keep complaining about privacy?  The USA gave that up about 12 years ago.


That should read "Why are people still surprised by a lack of privacy?". You wouldn't kill a Jew just because the world seemed to give up on not doing that decades ago, would you?

Well maybe you would, but in any case, the answer isn't simply "give up and accept it". It should never be accepted.
 
2013-09-21 06:28:33 AM  
GOOD!

I go back and forth using my EZPass like Clockwork.If I'm ever accused of a Crime somewhere they can see that I'm at Work almost every Goddamn Day! Same with cell phone tracking. Basically if I'm not Home, I'm at Work. I have no Life anymore. I don't have the Time to break the Law doing anything I'm Not supposed to be doing anywhere. Go ahead look up anything you want, all that will do is show how Pathetic my life has become.

So There!
 
2013-09-21 06:53:06 AM  

RoyBatty: Hermione_Granger: Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I was thinking about this today. If had a decent enough high res photo of my license plate and put it beneath a holder - I think if it looked realistic enough, it could stand up to a visual test and beat the scanners because it would just be photo paper?

Just a theory....I'm willing to entertain all rejections as to why this wouldn't work.

[i.imgur.com image 620x729]


I wasn't so much thinking of the traffic and red light cams. I was thinking of the license plates scanners police use. But this was a pretty cool article.
 
2013-09-21 07:21:51 AM  

RoyBatty: baltimoreblonde: RoyBatty: Hermione_Granger: Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I was thinking about this today. If had a decent enough high res photo of my license plate and put it beneath a holder - I think if it looked realistic enough, it could stand up to a visual test and beat the scanners because it would just be photo paper?

Just a theory....I'm willing to entertain all rejections as to why this wouldn't work.

[i.imgur.com image 620x729]

I call BS on that. As someone who's been caught by those damn cameras twice, I can say there's an easy way to prove it wasn't your vehicle: the images you get on the citation show not just the tag, but the car itself as well. Got some nice pics of my truck's rear end, and I'd know in a millisecond if it was my tag # on a different vehicle. Oh, yeah, I'd go to court on that one.

Well I suspect you should get off pretty easily but it's still a huge hassle and seems like a fun way to troll and payback the City Council, Chief of Police, etc.


True dat. But since I freely admit to a lead foot, I paid the ticket (40 bucks) just to be done with it. I'd only raise hell if it wasn't my vehicle that tripped the camera in the first place. Cie la vie.
 
2013-09-21 07:55:45 AM  
OBEY OBEY  OBEY  OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY  OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY OBEY
 
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