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(My Fox NY)   Remember when they said your E-ZPass wasn't used to track anything but your tolls on toll roads? Yeah, about that   (myfoxny.com) divider line 163
    More: Interesting, E-ZPass, New York News, New York Civil Liberties Union  
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20221 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Sep 2013 at 8:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-20 09:26:36 PM  

hasty ambush: And GPS sytems will only be used to tax you on the miles you drive

Bay Area Drivers Could Be Tracked By GPS, Taxed Per Mile Driven


We are all taxed per mile driven
 
2013-09-20 09:27:44 PM  
My ezpass shows the same commute every day 5 days a week 49 or 50 weeks a year.  I roll through the tollbooths between 25-30 every day each way, if I'm not doing 80 I'm pissed at whoever is holding up the left lane.  I have never once been cited for speeding or anything else from the gizmo since the day it started on the NJ Turnpike.  I check the statement every time, never anything I couldn't account for.  Never.  Works for me.
 
2013-09-20 09:28:20 PM  
Traffic control centers track Bluetooth devices and determine average speed in a given area. This is how your morning radio traffic announcer knows average trip times for your morning commute. So if your phone or vehicle uses Bluetooth technology, you are already being tracked by your local Department of Transportation. But don't worry; they won't tell anyone you weren't really where you were supposed to be. They only use a coded unique identifier for each vehicle, not your actual MAC address or other personal identifier.
 
2013-09-20 09:28:59 PM  

Deep Contact: Creoena: Anyone who thinks the government and corporations are not spying on your every move is a fool.

/Nothing to see here
//Move along

Still not right. They work for us. If anyone needs tracking, it's them.


Thats why we have the second amendment
 
2013-09-20 09:30:54 PM  

Ivo Shandor: e.

Vancouver's new toll bridge offers an optional RFID decal, but if you don't have one (which I don't) they use the plate number. It's not 100% accurate but it's close enough for government work.


Here in PA, if you don't have an E-ZPass, you end up paying like 20% more for a cash toll vs the electronic toll.  Fark PA in the arse with a stale Olive Garden breadstick!

/Looking to relocate to a nicer state.
//Subby
 
2013-09-20 09:31:30 PM  

Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.


For example: The London congestion charge has been entirely run using license plate recognition for over a decade now.
 
2013-09-20 09:32:36 PM  

gerbilpox: Man On Pink Corner: Could just as easily use TPMS.  Google it: you have radios in your tires.

Damn, I'd never heard of those. And they're hackable too:
http://arstechnica.com/security/2010/08/cars-hacked-through-wireless -t yre-sensors/

Every time I read the news these days, I want to surround myself with another layer of Faraday cage.


Now we know how the CIA kills people these days.
 
2013-09-20 09:33:28 PM  

Satanic panic in the attic: Just get it over with already and microchip us all.


Why bother with microchips when everyone is already willing to carry smartphones?

It is only a matter of time before life in modern society is not really livable without one.  As more and more businesses set up apps to manage customer accounts and do business, they will eventually decide the non-smartphone owning portion of the population isn't worth doing business with.

/you might be able to survive as an Amish stereotype though
 
2013-09-20 09:36:25 PM  

styckx: They still aren't tracking my fapping habits though right?


Don't worry. No one knows about your My Little Pony fetish. Bronies are safe
 
2013-09-20 09:36:47 PM  

SevenizGud: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: If you're not doing anything wrong, why have a problem with being tracked everywhere you go?

Because I don't want my parents to find out that I drive every Tuesday to the pancreatic cancer clinic? Jus' sayin'


Oh, if you're being serious, hon, you have sympathy and mental hugs shooting your way.  Please tell me you're fooling, so I can just be a little irritated at you.  I'd rather be pissed at you than you have that awful thing.
 
2013-09-20 09:37:14 PM  
This is why Tony Soprano always paid cash for tolls.
 
2013-09-20 09:38:41 PM  

GeeksAreMyPeeps: styckx: They still aren't tracking my fapping habits though right?

Don't worry. No one knows about your My Little Pony fetish. Bronies are safe


i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-20 09:38:50 PM  

Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.


I used to try to explain that at places like the Volokh Conspiracy where some of the professor/bloggers there would discuss things like GPS trackers, and it was like deaf ears.

But yeah, who needs expensive rfid or expensive gps trackers when a network of cameras capable of reading license plates will do.
 
2013-09-20 09:41:54 PM  

ThisIsntMe: This is why Tony Soprano always paid cash for tolls.


Too bad they take a picture of your license plate at every toll booth.
 
2013-09-20 09:43:20 PM  
And people said I was crazy when I didn't get an EZ Pass tag because they saved you 10% off your tolls. I'd rather preserve my privacy than sell it for $0.10 per transaction.
 
2013-09-20 09:44:11 PM  
Silly people thinking the Emocrats and Rapeublicans won't use this to try to enslave you.  The funny thing is, it's only possible in the cities.  Who lives in the cities?  Liberals.
 
2013-09-20 09:45:51 PM  
Well as long as corporate owned government don't  keep track of the GPS in your car, or Cell phone text's and calls, or Email, or the crap you buy with your credit card, or who you vote for, or what kind of car you drive, or what you DVR,  or every farking nickle you made last year and how much you saved, and what you spent the rest on,,,,  we should be secure in our privacy.
 
2013-09-20 09:47:54 PM  
The NYC area E-ZPass info comes from "pukingmonkey" si0.twimg.com

Here is a PDF he presented at DEFCON-21: "THE ROAD LESS SURREPTITIOUSLY TRAVELED". The E-ZPass details are around page 85.
 
2013-09-20 09:54:29 PM  

Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.


I was thinking about this today. If had a decent enough high res photo of my license plate and put it beneath a holder - I think if it looked realistic enough, it could stand up to a visual test and beat the scanners because it would just be photo paper?

Just a theory....I'm willing to entertain all rejections as to why this wouldn't work.
 
2013-09-20 09:56:44 PM  

lewismarktwo: ISO15693: My library card has a barcode on it - but I recently discovered my grocery store uses barcode scanners! - just what are they doing with this information? And why does the grocery store want to know my reading habits? SECRET GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE PROGRAMS!

/roll eyes

^There's always these people.  You just can't accept the fact that these things matter, so you make light of them.


I'm an RFID sw/fw engineer. My analogy was that many systems use UHF-band RFID carriers in the ~900 Mhz range, like the EZ-Pass, but that his "detection" system was only set up to notice UHF broadcasts in that frequency range, and may have had as little to do with EZ-Pass as your library card barcode does to your grocery store.

There are countless RFID systems using the UHF band around 900Mhz. You can buy UHF band detectors very cheaply, walk around any modern city or mall, and see for yourself.   His detector would certainly "Moo" if he drove down my street, within 300 feet or so of my home office, yet it would have absolutely nothing to do with any of the fear-mongering claims he is making, absolutely nothing to do with EZ-pass- it would just be my own UHF rfid projects or possibly the local grocery store (many of those use UHF inventory control systems)

If I am "one of those guys", its only because this is my profession, and I make my living by being an expert in RFID systems. (ISO15693 is an RFID protocol in the HF 13.56 Mhz range, but I have been focused on long range UHF ~900 mhz rfid for the past 3 years, such as what the EZ-pass system uses)

This guy is very, very, silly. It's silliness crafted to generate fear and,,, wait a sec.. FOX NEWS! Doh. Of course they are going to leave out important facts, and spin it into a nonsensical, misleading, fear-mongering story that targets the uneducated.
 
2013-09-20 09:58:24 PM  

big pig peaches: ThisIsntMe: This is why Tony Soprano always paid cash for tolls.

Too bad they take a picture of your license plate at every toll booth.


So just have your nephew change the license plate every week. What's the big deal?
 
2013-09-20 09:59:46 PM  

ThisIsntMe: So just have your nephew change the license plate every week. What's the big deal?


Christopher is dead, duh. They shot him and dumped him overboard.
 
2013-09-20 10:02:13 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Silly people thinking the Emocrats and Rapeublicans corporations won't use this to try to enslave you.  The funny thing is, it's only possible in the cities.  Who lives in the cities?  Liberals.


FTF my paranoid brain.
 
2013-09-20 10:03:25 PM  

Mark Ratner: We're being tracked everywhere! I blame the jews and HAARP.


Thanks for the brain worm. And for the rest of you... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRSt803o04I
 
2013-09-20 10:03:42 PM  

Hermione_Granger: Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I was thinking about this today. If had a decent enough high res photo of my license plate and put it beneath a holder - I think if it looked realistic enough, it could stand up to a visual test and beat the scanners because it would just be photo paper?

Just a theory....I'm willing to entertain all rejections as to why this wouldn't work.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-20 10:04:59 PM  

ISO15693: There are countless RFID systems using the UHF band around 900Mhz. You can buy UHF band detectors very cheaply, walk around any modern city or mall, and see for yourself. His detector would certainly "Moo" if he drove down my street, within 300 feet or so of my home office, yet it would have absolutely nothing to do with any of the fear-mongering claims he is making, absolutely nothing to do with EZ-pass- it would just be my own UHF rfid projects or possibly the local grocery store (many of those use UHF inventory control systems)

If I am "one of those guys", its only because this is my profession, and I make my living by being an expert in RFID systems. (ISO15693 is an RFID protocol in the HF 13.56 Mhz range, but I have been focused on long range UHF ~900 mhz rfid for the past 3 years, such as what the EZ-pass system uses)

This guy is very, very, silly. It's silliness crafted to generate fear and,,, wait a sec


You could try reading his DEFCON PDF. On page 85 he explains how he detects when the "active RDIF" is active and then shows photos of the readers that activate it.
 
2013-09-20 10:05:35 PM  

Shadow Blasko: big pig peaches: Next time you drive on any interstate, pay attention. There are cameras and various sensors everywhere. There main purpose is likely for traffic control but I'm sure if the various agencies want the information they can get it.

I hate those damned K-band solar powered radar units ohio has on all the highways.

I know that traffic flow rate is useful to google for travel time and traffic updates (thats what they told us they use them for) but they have made my radar detector useless.

(I wonder how constant k-band radar bombardment of the public, which is potentially hazardous, is legal for profit)


On my Valentine 1 I disabled K and X band warnings. Every drug store, grocery store and gas station around here has K band auto door sensors and my detector was worthless until I changed the settings. I looked it up on their website and it only took a couple minutes. Now it only sounds off for KA or laser.
 
2013-09-20 10:06:57 PM  
And people laughed at us librarians when we tried to explain how this would happen because of the nature of information and the ubiquity of information sharing and curiosity...
 
2013-09-20 10:07:13 PM  

qorkfiend: Smeggy Smurf: Silly people thinking the Emocrats and Rapeublicans corporations won't use this to try to enslave you.  The funny thing is, it's only possible in the cities.  Who lives in the cities?  Liberals.

FTF my paranoid brain.


You didn't change what I posted one bit
 
2013-09-20 10:07:50 PM  

dahmers love zombie: GeeksAreMyPeeps: styckx: They still aren't tracking my fapping habits though right?

Don't worry. No one knows about your My Little Pony fetish. Bronies are safe

[i.imgur.com image 443x311]


true bronies clop, not fap.  study it out...
 
2013-09-20 10:08:14 PM  

Shadow Blasko: I know that traffic flow rate is useful to google for travel time and traffic updates (thats what they told us they use them for) but they have made my radar detector useless.


Time to buy one that doesn't suck. Escort, Beltronics, and Valentine all use TSR- Traffic Sensor Rejection. Whistler might too. It creates a half second delay in the detector on K band... the pulses from those sensors are shorter than that so they get ignored. Anything longer than that is a more real concern, so it alerts.

Just don't buy a Cobra. Those are damn near worthless and have a nasty habit of setting off everybody else's decent units from a harmonic of the oscillator... when I get a Ka alert in the 33.6 range I look around and sure enough, some asshole is using a useless POS Cobra, often pointed right at the sky.
 
2013-09-20 10:08:25 PM  

styckx: They still aren't tracking my fapping habits though right?


Your optometrist already is.
 
2013-09-20 10:09:04 PM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I don't see what the problem is.

If you're not doing anything wrong, why have a problem with being tracked everywhere you go?


radiofreethinker.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-20 10:11:40 PM  
What's is say down there on the bottom?

upload.wikimedia.org

"NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION"
/we'll only stick it in part way
 
2013-09-20 10:14:10 PM  

skwerl: Shadow Blasko: big pig peaches: Next time you drive on any interstate, pay attention. There are cameras and various sensors everywhere. There main purpose is likely for traffic control but I'm sure if the various agencies want the information they can get it.

I hate those damned K-band solar powered radar units ohio has on all the highways.

I know that traffic flow rate is useful to google for travel time and traffic updates (thats what they told us they use them for) but they have made my radar detector useless.

(I wonder how constant k-band radar bombardment of the public, which is potentially hazardous, is legal for profit)

On my Valentine 1 I disabled K and X band warnings. Every drug store, grocery store and gas station around here has K band auto door sensors and my detector was worthless until I changed the settings. I looked it up on their website and it only took a couple minutes. Now it only sounds off for KA or laser.


How the HELL do I do that on my V1?

I asked Mike V and he said it was more trouble than it was worth till they were done with the firmware update.

/eip.. or just email. This username (no space) at gmail.

//I mean. . If you want to share.
 
2013-09-20 10:15:42 PM  

akula: Shadow Blasko: I know that traffic flow rate is useful to google for travel time and traffic updates (thats what they told us they use them for) but they have made my radar detector useless.

Time to buy one that doesn't suck. Escort, Beltronics, and Valentine all use TSR- Traffic Sensor Rejection. Whistler might too. It creates a half second delay in the detector on K band... the pulses from those sensors are shorter than that so they get ignored. Anything longer than that is a more real concern, so it alerts.

Just don't buy a Cobra. Those are damn near worthless and have a nasty habit of setting off everybody else's decent units from a harmonic of the oscillator... when I get a Ka alert in the 33.6 range I look around and sure enough, some asshole is using a useless POS Cobra, often pointed right at the sky.


I have a V1.

Tell me again to buy one that doesn't suck?

/worked for Cincy Microwave wayyyy back when they were on Escort drive in Mason.
 
2013-09-20 10:15:48 PM  
Is there still a way for people to use the superhighways in NY and NJ without a transponder?
 
2013-09-20 10:16:11 PM  
Your actions are being recorded.

Whether anyone's actually LOOKING at those recordings is another matter.
 
2013-09-20 10:17:19 PM  

akula: Shadow Blasko: I know that traffic flow rate is useful to google for travel time and traffic updates (thats what they told us they use them for) but they have made my radar detector useless.

Time to buy one that doesn't suck. Escort, Beltronics, and Valentine all use TSR- Traffic Sensor Rejection. Whistler might too. It creates a half second delay in the detector on K band... the pulses from those sensors are shorter than that so they get ignored. Anything longer than that is a more real concern, so it alerts.

Just don't buy a Cobra. Those are damn near worthless and have a nasty habit of setting off everybody else's decent units from a harmonic of the oscillator... when I get a Ka alert in the 33.6 range I look around and sure enough, some asshole is using a useless POS Cobra, often pointed right at the sky.


Oh... and Ohio doesnt use TSR.

The Ohio units are 5 to 7 second broadcast every 30 seconds. No short pulse.

/goes to look up how to fix my V1
 
2013-09-20 10:17:26 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Ivo Shandor
It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I have read suggestions that RFID tags be put on license plates. Maybe you know something I don't but I won't take your word on it.


In California they're piloting digital license plates.

Nothing to see here folks.

Move along...
 
2013-09-20 10:19:54 PM  
(Also hate those damned Laser rangefinders on the high end SUVs that set of lidar detection. Making all our toys useless)
 
2013-09-20 10:21:04 PM  

Fast Moon: Your actions are being recorded.

Whether anyone's actually LOOKING at those recordings is another matter.


If any of this were true, we'd certainly have had court cases where this data was used to aid a conviction.
 
2013-09-20 10:21:31 PM  

RoyBatty: Hermione_Granger: Ivo Shandor: It doesn't really matter any more. License plate readers are good enough that you don't need dedicated RF transmitters.

I was thinking about this today. If had a decent enough high res photo of my license plate and put it beneath a holder - I think if it looked realistic enough, it could stand up to a visual test and beat the scanners because it would just be photo paper?

Just a theory....I'm willing to entertain all rejections as to why this wouldn't work.

[i.imgur.com image 620x729]


I call BS on that. As someone who's been caught by those damn cameras twice, I can say there's an easy way to prove it wasn't your vehicle: the images you get on the citation show not just the tag, but the car itself as well. Got some nice pics of my truck's rear end, and I'd know in a millisecond if it was my tag # on a different vehicle. Oh, yeah, I'd go to court on that one.
 
2013-09-20 10:23:45 PM  

Aces and Eights: Traffic control centers track Bluetooth devices and determine average speed in a given area. This is how your morning radio traffic announcer knows average trip times for your morning commute. So if your phone or vehicle uses Bluetooth technology, you are already being tracked by your local Department of Transportation. But don't worry; they won't tell anyone you weren't really where you were supposed to be. They only use a coded unique identifier for each vehicle, not your actual MAC address or other personal identifier.


I read that Palm Beach, Florida is currently doing that, is it anywhere else yet?
 
2013-09-20 10:24:22 PM  
On the one hand, this use of the tags should be disclosed.

On the other hand, I don't think that people have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding what they do with their 20-foot, two-ton metal vehicle with clear individual marks at both ends on roadways used by thousands or millions of other people.  It's a reasonable discussion to have, yes, thus the disclosure, but I don't think it's necessarily something one should automatically win.

ISO15693: I'm an RFID sw/fw engineer. My analogy was that many systems use UHF-band RFID carriers in the ~900 Mhz range, like the EZ-Pass, but that his "detection" system was only set up to notice UHF broadcasts in that frequency range, and may have had as little to do with EZ-Pass as your library card barcode does to your grocery store.


Firstly, there's no information in TFA about the device.  He may have been monitoring the device response itself, not general incoming signals. So it may be more specific than that.

Secondly, the read distance on passive tags is something like 20 feet, so if you're driving around and getting pinged then it's probably something on the actual road.

Thirdly, the news contacted NYC-DoT and the city told them that the readers were theirs and that they were using them to monitor vehicles.

... your professional credentials are rendered somewhat less impressive when they lead you to say obviously stupid shiat that anyone reading TFA would notice are incorrect.  You may not want to bring them up immediately upon being called out on something legitimately dumb.
 
2013-09-20 10:27:52 PM  

LeroyB: My EZ Pass is wrapped up in it's metallic bag in the storage compartment of the center console.

I attach it to my window when I happen to be going on a toll road.

Doesn't the police already keep track our location by reading our license plates with cameras on the back of police cars and at traffic lights?


================

Couple of years ago a bicycle riding arsonist was caught when cops started with the security camera videos of the torched structures, and worked backwards patching together all the security and traffic videos along the route the arsonist took, leading right back to the arsonist's house.    Some nights he rode is bike 20 miles to his targets.
 
2013-09-20 10:28:39 PM  
News, people still believe we are not in a police state.
 
2013-09-20 10:28:41 PM  

Southern100: Houston has been doing this for at least 5-6 years, and even told us about it when they started doing it. Not sure why they think this is "News".


Where do you think they get the info for the "XX MINUTES TO I45" signs from?
 
2013-09-20 10:31:33 PM  

Macular Degenerate: And people said I was crazy when I didn't get an EZ Pass tag because they saved you 10% off your tolls. I'd rather preserve my privacy than sell it for $0.10 per transaction.


Your plate gets photo'd, you gain no privacy, you waste time and gas in line for the toll, and you pay more (and it's far more than a 10% discount in NYC)

/I actually really wished they issued speeding tickets with the traffic data
//fastest way to get limits raised that I can think of is ticket everyone!
 
2013-09-20 10:31:50 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: hasty ambush: And GPS sytems will only be used to tax you on the miles you drive

Bay Area Drivers Could Be Tracked By GPS, Taxed Per Mile Driven

We are all taxed per mile driven


No, we're taxed per gallon of gas consumed.

Wear is a function of vehicle weight, speed, and tires (contact area.)

Mileage is a function of mass, speed, tires, engine design, drivetrain type, driving habits, etc. You change enough of the other variables, you throw it off.

My dad's Prius averages mpg in the high 40s, low 50s, depending on time of year. My Focus averages about 27mpg. I drive a little over half as many miles a year as he does, so I cause a little over half as much road wear, but I use about the same amount of gas, which means I'm paying ~2x as much per mile travelled, and/or ~2x as much per unit of road wear.

I get back a little every year at registration time - he pays a lot more for license plate tabs, because his car's newer and pricier. But it hardly makes a dent in the difference and he got a tax credit to buy the damn thing in the first place.

But imo, a completely fair road maintenance tax system would be too complicated to administer effectively. (An income-adjusted base rate for basic road maintenance necessitated by weather, freeze-frost cycles, etc., and an additional surcharge based on city street miles driven, highway miles driven, COLA adjustments for each county, weighted for the type of vehicle being driven and whether or not it was hauling a trailer at the time, etc.)

So we fudge it.
 
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