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(Global Geopolitics)   BRICS tells America to shove its US-centric global internet infrastructure up its ass, will soon move on without it with the creation of a world internet system INDEPENDENT from it and Britain by mid-2015   (glblgeopolitics.wordpress.com) divider line 92
    More: Scary, BRIC, Britain, Dilma Rousseff, President of Brazil  
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4248 clicks; posted to Business » on 20 Sep 2013 at 7:10 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-20 05:32:59 PM
The Internet began here in the US

We will always have a say in the future of the net
 
2013-09-20 05:38:21 PM
To BRICS a lot of investment is foreign. To us it's outsourcing. The two can't function separated. They can't pretend to be too mad for long. The internet is a powerful thing in global economics. These things will come together.

Surely these people aren't stupid enough that they will fail to realise an internet built by Russia and China might have privacy issues of their own?
 
2013-09-20 05:41:00 PM
Somehow I don't think they quite got a grasp on the actual meaning of the word internet. Are they planning on keeping their network separate from the current internet? Good luck with that. Oh and if you are looking to create an independent, open 'internet', starting with China and Russia as your partners probably isn't the best way to go.
 
2013-09-20 05:48:39 PM

Slaxl: To BRICS a lot of investment is foreign. To us it's outsourcing. The two can't function separated. They can't pretend to be too mad for long. The internet is a powerful thing in global economics. These things will come together.

Surely these people aren't stupid enough that they will fail to realise an internet built by Russia and China might have privacy issues of their own?


I think it comes down to a question of WHICH government would you rather have spying on you. For most Americans, the government of China isn't a threat.
 
2013-09-20 05:52:01 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: For most Americans, the government of China isn't a threat.


I am in far greater danger from hackers, scammers, and phishers from Russia and China than from anything the NSA is doing.
 
2013-09-20 06:08:58 PM
www.hogdb.com
 
2013-09-20 06:35:42 PM

Dinki: Somehow I don't think they quite got a grasp on the actual meaning of the word internet. Are they planning on keeping their network separate from the current internet? Good luck with that. Oh and if you are looking to create an independent, open 'internet', starting with China and Russia as your partners probably isn't the best way to go.


Yeah, it sounds like the plan is to build a new internet backbone cable, which doesn't really do anything but provide better redundancy and data throughput between the connected points.  If it isn't connected to the rest of the internet I don't see what they plan on doing with it or why people would use it.
 
2013-09-20 06:40:15 PM
TuteTibiImperes:   If it isn't connected to the rest of the internet I don't see what they plan on doing with it or why people would use it.

I think the Chinese government would be happy with that. Not so sure about the rest of the users tho.
 
2013-09-20 06:52:03 PM

Dinki: I am in far greater danger from hackers, scammers, and phishers from Russia and China than from anything the NSA is doing


.... today.
 
2013-09-20 07:10:34 PM
Huh. Guess I missed it when South Africa got added to that bloc.
 
2013-09-20 07:17:06 PM
and in 1975 they formed the WFL
 
2013-09-20 07:24:19 PM
They've got a lot of work to do if they want to escape the NSA:
1. Build their own computers
2. Build their own OS and software from scratch
3. Build their own communication infrastructure

Have fun, guys!
 
2013-09-20 07:25:10 PM
How cute, are those so ignorant  to not realize spy organizations will began tapping into this as soon s possible once it is in operation?
 
2013-09-20 07:28:22 PM

Dinki: ecmoRandomNumbers: For most Americans, the government of China isn't a threat.

I am in far greater danger from hackers, scammers, and phishers from Russia and China than from anything the NSA is doing.


That's because you are a U.S citizen. For those living in Central and South America the USA is not a bringer of freedom and democracy.
 
2013-09-20 07:49:49 PM
No more BRs in my online games?  I can live with that.
 
2013-09-20 07:58:25 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Dinki: Somehow I don't think they quite got a grasp on the actual meaning of the word internet. Are they planning on keeping their network separate from the current internet? Good luck with that. Oh and if you are looking to create an independent, open 'internet', starting with China and Russia as your partners probably isn't the best way to go.

Yeah, it sounds like the plan is to build a new internet backbone cable, which doesn't really do anything but provide better redundancy and data throughput between the connected points.  If it isn't connected to the rest of the internet I don't see what they plan on doing with it or why people would use it.


It's actually a huge boon to Brazil and South America, and something that needs to be done, but probably couldn't be without popular support from a people that largely are still mired in poverty.  By selling it as "Sticking it to the Americans" they actually get support.

More redundancy is a good thing
 
2013-09-20 08:07:22 PM
meat0918:

It's actually a huge boon to Brazil and South America, and something that needs to be done, but probably couldn't be without popular support from a people that largely are still mired in poverty.  By selling it as "Sticking it to the Americans" they actually get support.

More redundancy is a good thing


Yep, this is a good thing.

Their petulant little manifesto invites a knee-jerk response of "Fark off and die, you whiny biatch" and "Don't let the door hit you on the way out", but other than that, good on 'em.
 
2013-09-20 08:09:33 PM
So they are going to lay some new cables that won't run through the US or UK? The BRICS trust each other just as much as the trust the US and the UK. Even if they lay that cable they'll be listening in on each others traffic. Information is power.
 
2013-09-20 08:09:36 PM

MrEricSir: They've got a lot of work to do if they want to escape the NSA:
1. Build their own computers
2. Build their own OS and software from scratch
3. Build their own communication infrastructure

Have fun, guys!


What are you talking about? They build all that already and the USA doesn't build any of it. The USA just makes money off the BRICS labour and assumes they will always access BRICS factories.
 
2013-09-20 08:12:05 PM

Bennie Crabtree: MrEricSir: They've got a lot of work to do if they want to escape the NSA:
1. Build their own computers
2. Build their own OS and software from scratch
3. Build their own communication infrastructure

Have fun, guys!

What are you talking about? They build all that already and the USA doesn't build any of it. The USA just makes money off the BRICS labour and assumes they will always access BRICS factories.


Well, I really meant "design," not "build." You can't trust hardware that someone else designed.
 
2013-09-20 08:19:29 PM

Bennie Crabtree: MrEricSir: They've got a lot of work to do if they want to escape the NSA:
1. Build their own computers
2. Build their own OS and software from scratch
3. Build their own communication infrastructure

Have fun, guys!

What are you talking about? They build all that already and the USA doesn't build any of it. The USA just makes money off the BRICS labour and assumes they will always access BRICS factories.


Well, we build some of it here, but yes, a lot of it is built overseas.  There's also not much of a chance that we'll lose access to those factories because it would hurt them worse than it would hurt us.  The biggest reason that China's economy has been booming has been trade with the US.  Stopping that to try to prove some point would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.  There are other places that we can go to get cheap labor, China doesn't have a replacement for one of the largest markets in the world.
 
2013-09-20 08:25:07 PM
"Independent from the US"... is that the new euphemism for "attempting to put more controls on what their citizens can access"?
 
2013-09-20 08:25:37 PM
This is about infrastructure. A lot of people seem to be going on about something else.

Think of it like having your only water source being a river. Upstream sits a rather powerful state which can turn on or off the tap as they see fit. Obviously there's immense value to finding a second water source. Sure there's some other powers sitting on that source as well but the chance of both sources being cut off at the same time is still better than being tied to one source.
 
2013-09-20 09:17:30 PM

Dinki: ecmoRandomNumbers: For most Americans, the government of China isn't a threat.

I am in far greater danger from hackers, scammers, and phishers from Russia and China than from anything the NSA is doing.


This.

At least American corporations aren't official arms of the government.
 
2013-09-20 09:18:37 PM
NSA has had a BRICS intercept division for years.
Does BRICS think the NSA is stupid?
Is BRICS stupid?
Probably.
 
2013-09-20 09:22:13 PM
This new Internet backbone my be less hobbled by the locking up ideas as property form of censorship, but will have even more of the suppressing of ideas the ruling class disapproves of form of censorship, so it will not improve the free flow of ideas.
 
2013-09-20 09:26:41 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bennie Crabtree: MrEricSir: They've got a lot of work to do if they want to escape the NSA:
1. Build their own computers
2. Build their own OS and software from scratch
3. Build their own communication infrastructure

Have fun, guys!

What are you talking about? They build all that already and the USA doesn't build any of it. The USA just makes money off the BRICS labour and assumes they will always access BRICS factories.

Well, we build some of it here, but yes, a lot of it is built overseas.  There's also not much of a chance that we'll lose access to those factories because it would hurt them worse than it would hurt us.  The biggest reason that China's economy has been booming has been trade with the US.  Stopping that to try to prove some point would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.  There are other places that we can go to get cheap labor, China doesn't have a replacement for one of the largest markets in the world.


Profit margin on manufacturing and export is getting slimmer and slimmer. China is all about boosting domestic consumption now.
 
2013-09-20 09:31:10 PM
Fark em
 
2013-09-20 09:41:19 PM

meyerkev: Dinki: ecmoRandomNumbers: For most Americans, the government of China isn't a threat.

I am in far greater danger from hackers, scammers, and phishers from Russia and China than from anything the NSA is doing.

This.

At least American corporations aren't official arms of the government.


Technically correct, which is the best kind of correct. ;)
 
2013-09-20 09:49:22 PM
Will it also have BLACKJACK? And HOOKERS?
 
2013-09-20 09:54:49 PM

cman: The Internet began here in the US

We will always have a say in the future of the net


Maybe, but influence like that isn't completely hereditary it has to be re-earned every so often, which isn't done by resting on laurels.
 
2013-09-20 10:28:41 PM

Norfolking Chance: That's because you are a U.S citizen. For those living in Central and South America the USA is not a bringer of freedom and democracy.


Oh yeah. It's kind of like Iran. Every time a light bulb goes out, that was the world of American and Jewish agent saboteurs.

American is responsible for ALL the evils of the world. It's the vogue thing.

/Yes, I know you're talking about the Cold War.
//And ignoring the fact that the Soviets did the same thing.
///Both sides are bad. The question is which government would you want controlling the information flow. At least the United States doesn't censor information damaging to it.
 
2013-09-20 10:28:48 PM
Unless it never touches the Internet near the US (or a US friendly country) they are still susceptible to spying. Look at TOR for an example of end points.

I don't see how they think it's going to make anything different from what it is now. I mean, great, you built a new cable. Oh goody, 13TB capacity. You're still hooking it up to the regular intarwebs. You're still using the same protocols. You've gained very little, if anything.
 
2013-09-20 10:38:09 PM
GPS is the same in a way in a way. The US built it, shared it, then supplied higher accuracy for civilians, etc. Other countries are trying to develop their own now.

Just because.
 
2013-09-20 10:51:26 PM
Good luck.
 
2013-09-20 10:52:27 PM
Did no one else read that site and conclude that it's like Inforwars but paranoid?

There is a proposal for a BRICS cable.  It's a stupid proposal, basically someone combining the buzzwords "BRICS" and "bandwidth."  You can meet them here.

South Africa may end up supporting it, because most of their bandwidth runs about 20 hops before hitting civilization.  China has less need for bandwidth (and, frankly, less desire for foreign bandwidth) but may invest in it because they'll invest in any damn thing these days.  Russia's actual internet users are on the opposite side of the continent from Vladivostock; any additional cables to there just have to go to South Korea or Japan.

It's not a massive conspiracy to build an alternative internet.  It's a business plan looking for enough money to pay the executives before its inevitable failure.
 
2013-09-20 10:52:36 PM
So the BRICS countries are 45% of the world's population, and put together would be the #8 economy in the world, about the size of Italy? Huehuehue, Brazil.
 
2013-09-20 11:02:58 PM
I wish them the best of luck.
 
2013-09-20 11:10:24 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: meyerkev: Dinki: ecmoRandomNumbers: For most Americans, the government of China isn't a threat.

I am in far greater danger from hackers, scammers, and phishers from Russia and China than from anything the NSA is doing.

This.

At least American corporations aren't official arms of the government.

Technically correct, which is the best kind of correct. ;)


More like the American government (and military) are enforcement arms of its corporations.
 
2013-09-20 11:12:52 PM

Manfred J. Hattan: Did no one else read that site and conclude that it's like Inforwars but paranoid?

There is a proposal for a BRICS cable.  It's a stupid proposal, basically someone combining the buzzwords "BRICS" and "bandwidth."  You can meet them here.

South Africa may end up supporting it, because most of their bandwidth runs about 20 hops before hitting civilization.  China has less need for bandwidth (and, frankly, less desire for foreign bandwidth) but may invest in it because they'll invest in any damn thing these days.  Russia's actual internet users are on the opposite side of the continent from Vladivostock; any additional cables to there just have to go to South Korea or Japan.

It's not a massive conspiracy to build an alternative internet.  It's a business plan looking for enough money to pay the executives before its inevitable failure.


Plus, for all of the talk about keeping the USA out, all of the diagrams show it connecting to the USA.
 
2013-09-20 11:15:52 PM
This is better known as the "Best Korea" strategy. Biatch and moan that you've got the power to blow THE WORLD WORLD TO HELL, then see what Emperor Sam offers you to not do it.

If these nations try to build a separate infrastructure and then cut it off from the US, UK, and anyone else they don't like then they'll only hurt themselves...badly. Want to send an e-mail to that American oil company that wanted to buy drilling rights? Nope

Want to buy a shipment of american micro-brew for your swanky Americana themed bar in Beijing? Better break out the telephone and start calling around for the next few days.

Want to sell your surplus hand crafted nesting dolls for 10000% profit to some shlub with too much money in the states? Better hope your village invents a teleporter for him to casually waltz by your crappy farmer's hut on his way to your village's world renowned brothel and distillery and notices your wares.

Redundancy is good, but having worked for an ISP, generally we already have a lot of it. These people want to crash their global trade with the people that have money, the West, from the people who want to get at the money, their own citizens, in the name of a seriously stupid form of nationalism.
 
2013-09-20 11:16:38 PM
BRICS decides to pull a Bender..

"We'll have our own internet.. with hookers! and blackjack!"
 
2013-09-20 11:18:33 PM

cman: The Internet began here in the US

We will always have a say in the future of the net


Hence why the American automobile industry is so healthy, and directing the future development of the car.
 
2013-09-20 11:22:22 PM

MrEricSir: They've got a lot of work to do if they want to escape the NSA:
1. Build their own computers
2. Build their own OS and software from scratch
3. Build their own communication infrastructure

Have fun, guys!


1. Made in China
2. Made in India
3. Launched by Russia
 
2013-09-20 11:29:47 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-20 11:49:50 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: cman: The Internet began here in the US

We will always have a say in the future of the net

Hence why the American automobile industry is so healthy, and directing the future development of the car.


GM is either #1 or #2 worldwide by sales volume (depending on how you count VW may have the edge), and Ford is #5 worldwide, I'd say we're doing OK.

When it comes to the internet, we have 8 of the top 10 site by traffic, and 15 of the top 20.  Intel and AMD are both US based, Microsoft and Apple are US based, when it comes to things computing and Internet related, the US dominates.
 
2013-09-21 12:09:08 AM
I love the "haha good luck escaping the u.s. spy machine!! ROFL!!"

Seems like a good goal for other nations to pursue.
 
2013-09-21 12:10:39 AM

TuteTibiImperes: LouDobbsAwaaaay: cman: The Internet began here in the US

We will always have a say in the future of the net

Hence why the American automobile industry is so healthy, and directing the future development of the car.

GM is either #1 or #2 worldwide by sales volume (depending on how you count VW may have the edge), and Ford is #5 worldwide, I'd say we're doing OK.

When it comes to the internet, we have 8 of the top 10 site by traffic, and 15 of the top 20.  Intel and AMD are both US based, Microsoft and Apple are US based, when it comes to things computing and Internet related, the US dominates.


Sure, but consider the following:

1. A Scottish developer just made a billion dollars on the world's top video game.
2. Israel produces much of the world's security software.
3. A British guy is responsible for much of computer science.
4. Many American software and hardware engineers were not born in the US.

I hope we don't, but we could stop building cars and developing computer technology. The rest of the world would eventually get along fine without us.
 
2013-09-21 12:33:42 AM

Pubby: This is better known as the "Best Korea" strategy. Biatch and moan that you've got the power to blow THE WORLD WORLD TO HELL, then see what Emperor Sam offers you to not do it.

If these nations try to build a separate infrastructure and then cut it off from the US, UK, and anyone else they don't like then they'll only hurt themselves...badly. Want to send an e-mail to that American oil company that wanted to buy drilling rights? Nope

Want to buy a shipment of american micro-brew for your swanky Americana themed bar in Beijing? Better break out the telephone and start calling around for the next few days.

Want to sell your surplus hand crafted nesting dolls for 10000% profit to some shlub with too much money in the states? Better hope your village invents a teleporter for him to casually waltz by your crappy farmer's hut on his way to your village's world renowned brothel and distillery and notices your wares.

Redundancy is good, but having worked for an ISP, generally we already have a lot of it. These people want to crash their global trade with the people that have money, the West, from the people who want to get at the money, their own citizens, in the name of a seriously stupid form of nationalism.



Separate infrastructure probably means different URL and address scheme. These two will be connected but someone will have to write the translation software in the middle.

Like telephone networks. If you want to call out of the country, you have to dial all those country codes etc etc, maybe internet will also have that on it

Or could mean same URL and address scheme but making sure that NSA isn't doing traffic analysis in the middle and they are.

But does not mean they are not connected.
 
2013-09-21 01:23:55 AM
Direct from the "good luck with that" file.
 
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