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(Politico)   Pentagon: All soldiers, including National Guard members, can get benefits for same-sex partners. OK Gov Fallin: not in my state they can't Pentagon: fine, they can just go to the nearest FEDERAL military base and apply for them there then   (politico.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Oklahoma National Guard, Gov. Fallin, same-sex couples, soldiers  
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3704 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Sep 2013 at 12:04 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-20 02:37:54 PM  
Shut down all military bases in states that do not conform to the law granting benefits to same-sex couples.  Only states that can follow the law should get federal spending for these institutions.
 
2013-09-20 02:39:57 PM  

Jackson Herring: It really is amazing how one single relatively new gimmick account can run every single thread on the entire politics tab.

 
2013-09-20 02:42:10 PM  

Nem Wan: Aristocles: Fallin spokesman Alex Weintz said the governor was following the wish of Oklahoma voters, who approved a constitutional amendment in 2004 that prohibits giving benefits of marriage to gay couples. "Because of that prohibition, Gov. Fallin's general counsel has advised the National Guard not to process requests for benefits of same-sex couples," Weintz said. "Gay couples that have been legally married in other states will be advised they can apply for those benefits on federal facilities, such as Tinker Air Force Base, rather than state run facilities."

So, what's the story, Farklibs? The Gov. is following the letter of the law and advising same-sex couples how to get benefits.

2004 is an eternity ago on this issue. Even in Oklahoma. Would voters approve that amendment today? This is an example of panic legislation, old conservatives trying to lock down the laws they like because society is moving fast away from their position.


Oklahoma would.  Even now I would say there are only a few states that don't currently have gay marriage that would.  Especially if there's no President on the ballot.
 
2013-09-20 02:43:46 PM  

Jackson Herring: It really is amazing how one single relatively new gimmick account can run every single thread on the entire politics tab.


I only currently have 1 person on ignore and that spammer is it, nothing wrong with a little trollin but when you start spamming every single thread it gets annoying quick.
 
2013-09-20 02:45:47 PM  

grumpfuff: Jackson Herring: It really is amazing how one single relatively new gimmick account can run every single thread on the entire politics tab.


Come on. We need to have a gimmick accounts in this place. If it weren't for the trolls most threads would be 1 comment with 20 this' and maybe 3 more correcting grammar.
 
2013-09-20 02:52:21 PM  
this is so easy to fix
ban any and all federal DOD payments to these states until they uphold federal law.

TADA
problem gets fixed in 1 day
 
2013-09-20 02:54:00 PM  

lockers: grumpfuff: Jackson Herring: It really is amazing how one single relatively new gimmick account can run every single thread on the entire politics tab.

Come on.Wwe need to have a gimmick accounts in this place. If it weren't for the trolls most threads would be 1 comment with 20 this' and maybe 3 more correcting grammar.


FTFY
 
2013-09-20 03:27:00 PM  

Aristocles: This thread is amazing.

I used to think Farklibs were just misguided ideologues but, it seems, they're intentionally ignoring the fact that this Gov. is merely following state law. Additionally, she's instructed same-sex couples on how to obtain benefits directly from the Federal Gov't.

Yet, the Farklibs here have nothing but blind hatred and unfounded contempt.


Or maybe the Farklibs and centrists understand that an immoral and unjust law should be ignored or fought, and grant her the disgust due her for not standing up for the rights of her minority citizens.
 
2013-09-20 03:27:03 PM  

Headso: Jackson Herring: It really is amazing how one single relatively new gimmick account can run every single thread on the entire politics tab.

I only currently have 1 person on ignore and that spammer is it, nothing wrong with a little trollin but when you start spamming every single thread it gets annoying quick.


Who is it this time?

My ignore list is up to a billion people by now, so I must have already blocked ours truly.
 
2013-09-20 03:31:15 PM  

lockers: grumpfuff: Jackson Herring: It really is amazing how one single relatively new gimmick account can run every single thread on the entire politics tab.

Come on. We need to have a gimmick accounts in this place. If it weren't for the trolls most threads would be 1 comment with 20 this' and maybe 3 more correcting grammar.


I can appreciate trolls. Just not sad, lazy, repetitive, tired trolls.

Coming to every thread and going "HERP DERP LIBRULS EVIL 0BUMMER IS A FACIST SOCIALIST EMPTY SUIT DICTATOR DERP HERP!" is not trolling. It's a plea for attention.
 
2013-09-20 03:32:47 PM  

rwhamann: Aristocles: This thread is amazing.

I used to think Farklibs were just misguided ideologues but, it seems, they're intentionally ignoring the fact that this Gov. is merely following state law. Additionally, she's instructed same-sex couples on how to obtain benefits directly from the Federal Gov't.

Yet, the Farklibs here have nothing but blind hatred and unfounded contempt.

Or maybe the Farklibs and centrists understand that an immoral and unjust law should be ignored or fought, and grant her the disgust due her for not standing up for the rights of her minority citizens.


EXACTLY!

That's why the Great COMMONWEALTH of VIRGINIA! will be opposing the Stalinistic Obamacare~!!
 
2013-09-20 03:40:41 PM  

Aristocles: rwhamann: Aristocles: This thread is amazing.

I used to think Farklibs were just misguided ideologues but, it seems, they're intentionally ignoring the fact that this Gov. is merely following state law. Additionally, she's instructed same-sex couples on how to obtain benefits directly from the Federal Gov't.

Yet, the Farklibs here have nothing but blind hatred and unfounded contempt.

Or maybe the Farklibs and centrists understand that an immoral and unjust law should be ignored or fought, and grant her the disgust due her for not standing up for the rights of her minority citizens.

EXACTLY!

That's why the Great COMMONWEALTH of VIRGINIA! will be opposing the Stalinistic Obamacare~!!


Because if there's one person who really wanted to make sure everyone had healthcare, it was Stalin.
 
2013-09-20 03:52:29 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Shut down all military bases in states that do not conform to the law granting benefits to same-sex couples.  Only states that can follow the law should get federal spending for these institutions.


And the states that respect our constitution should refuse any help to those states who fark around with our soldiers benefits.  You know, for the next time God takes her shiatty aim at all the gays living near OKC, misses, and destroys and kills schools and kids.
 
2013-09-20 04:03:26 PM  
So, Ahmadinijad is having a nice chuckle
 
2013-09-20 04:14:04 PM  
Pentagon: fine, they can just go to the nearest FEDERAL military base and apply for them there then

Followup: OK Legislature passes complex laws to BRAC all the military bases in OK. "Hey, that's how they closed down Planned Parenthood in TX!"
 
2013-09-20 04:18:02 PM  
Testiclaw

THIS. I was going through my list and saw some oldies there, and wondered for half a second if they were still around, but thought better of checking them out. Not worth it.....
 
2013-09-20 04:38:09 PM  
Saint Reagan must be spinning in his grave as today's republicans fight so hard to be just like Russia.
 
2013-09-20 04:58:59 PM  
Why do Republicans hate a well regulated militia?
 
2013-09-20 05:50:12 PM  

edmo: Given the old "at least one guard unit per state" idea is soon to die, you'd think they want to make a better effort to ingratiate themselves with the Pentagon.


Exactly how does a state benefit by providing the Pentagon with a national guard unit?  Couldn't a state just say to heck with it, let the federal government pay for its own army, we won't do the national guard thing anymore?  They could beef up the state police a bit and have a state-run corps of firefighters, EMT's, and "support volunteers" to do disaster response, without having to worry about the Pentagon sending those people away overseas.
 
2013-09-20 05:58:38 PM  

Dimensio: Theres only one amendment I need and I think you know which one it is.

The twenty-first?


Seen in Crestone, Colorado:

farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2013-09-20 06:02:18 PM  

COMALite J: It is, of course, a fundamental law of logic, math, law, and, well, pretty much everything in every field of human endeavor, that anything is always "identical to" itself! A is A. X = X. The Identity Property.


I could see a lawyer making an argument that the laws are not based on logic, if it would benefit his case.  And there would be no shortage of examples to back up such a claim.
 
2013-09-20 06:02:24 PM  

Magorn: lockers: If I recall right, Fallin said they could go to a base herself. God I hate living here.

So, in other words she admits that her action is merely a symbolic gesture to add another level or harrasment and symbolic dispproval to gays, not anything that will have any actual, practical effect?   Support the troops indeed.  Particularly disgraceful since she's technically thier commander


no, it seems more a "ride the derp wave" move...  OK amendment happened before DADT and DOMA got thrown out.  so, federal ruling DIDN'T throw out any state law...  the threads here have been talking about the GOP imploding for MONTHS now.  and here it is in blatant form.  unless she can get OK to overturn THEIR amendment, the only way she CAN comply with DoD is by sending folks to the feds...

rock vs. hard place.  she's in a lose/lose situation.  deservedly so, but still...
 
2013-09-20 06:06:42 PM  

Magorn: DarkSoulNoHope: Magorn: Sofa_king_kewl: FTFA "the governor was following the wish of Oklahoma voters, who approved a constitutional amendment in 2004 that prohibits giving benefits of marriage to gay couples."

I guess since libs don't give a damn about the US Constitution, not following a single states is a given.

That US constitution you speak of? It has something in it called "The federal Supremacy CLause" which state, to wit: "

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding. it ALSO has something called the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment which says:


 No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Now this last bit is super-important since the cited provision of the OK state Constitution is in clear violation of it.

It's the primary reason why these "strict constitutionalists" want to do away with the 14th amendment, they want to create any crazy law they can in order to abridge the rights of people they feel are "icky".

I thought we rather settled that particular State's rights vs federal power arguement with some finality a few years back everyone seemed quite cordial but definite on that point:
[graphics8.nytimes.com image 600x470]:


wow.  painter's bias...  lee gets gethsemane lighting?
 
2013-09-20 06:11:15 PM  

flondrix: edmo: Given the old "at least one guard unit per state" idea is soon to die, you'd think they want to make a better effort to ingratiate themselves with the Pentagon.

Exactly how does a state benefit by providing the Pentagon with a national guard unit?  Couldn't a state just say to heck with it, let the federal government pay for its own army, we won't do the national guard thing anymore?  They could beef up the state police a bit and have a state-run corps of firefighters, EMT's, and "support volunteers" to do disaster response, without having to worry about the Pentagon sending those people away overseas.


It benefits by getting a lot of sweet, sweet federal dollars.  The National Guard is primarily funded by the federal government.
 
2013-09-20 06:15:55 PM  
COMALite J:  That's right: All Texas marriages were annulled on November 8, 2005. For the past n ...

point of order there...  any pre-existing marriage in TX would not have been annulled.  TX would just no longer be able to recognize them.  they'd still be recognized in other states...
 
2013-09-20 06:21:34 PM  

Marquis de Sod: Aristocles: This thread is amazing.

I used to think Farklibs were just misguided ideologues but, it seems, they're intentionally ignoring the fact that this Gov. is merely following state law. Additionally, she's instructed same-sex couples on how to obtain benefits directly from the Federal Gov't.

Yet, the Farklibs here have nothing but blind hatred and unfounded contempt.

She isn't going to sleep with you


isn't that a GOOD thing?
 
2013-09-20 06:27:56 PM  

mod3072: Pete and Repeat were in a boat. Pete fell out. Who's left?

That being said, this was really the best move for the governor to make politically. She gets to appeal to the derpers by being tough on the homoqueers without actually blocking anything, not to mention the fact that she is legally obligated to uphold the state constitution. She herself acknowledged that they could just go to a federal installation and apply for the benefits. It's do-nothing appearance politics. It's the one thing that our "leaders" are really good at.

Crotchrocket Slim: The US Constitution supercedes anything that might contradict it in state constitutions, and civil rights are not doled out via referendum. That's part of the whole point of the US (at least originally).

Yet another Teabagger Philosopher who slept through high school civics...

Unless/until the state amendment fails a court challenge, it has the weight of law. It's not the governor's place to just decide what is constitutional and what isn't. That's why we have the judicial branch. Maybe that Teabagger Philosopher wasn't the only one who slept through high school civics....


wtf is "high school civics?"  that's what happened two decades before i went through "social studies" and now it's not even HS anymore it's a "PoliSci Major"

/OTOH, start implementing "high school civets"... leads to better coffee
 
2013-09-20 06:43:07 PM  

JollyMagistrate: Aristocles: This thread is amazing.

I used to think Farklibs were just misguided ideologues but, it seems, they're intentionally ignoring the fact that this Gov. is merely following state law. Additionally, she's instructed same-sex couples on how to obtain benefits directly from the Federal Gov't.

Yet, the Farklibs here have nothing but blind hatred and unfounded contempt.

The Governor is breaking national law re: the constitution, which (as mentioned many times in this thread) specifically bars such actions from occurring in several ways. If the Oklahoma State Legislature legalized murder and required the Governor to kill 20 people a day she still would be immediately arrested because state law does not. and cannot, override federal law.

Blind hate/unfounded contempt is only involved here with legislation concerning banning a specific population from rights for the sole reason of hate. If you have a reason why LGBT couples should not have the same rights of others that is not based on hate or contempt I think much of the country, the Supreme Court included, would love to hear it. Because so far, the bigoted masses such as yourselves have not been able to come up with any legal justification for their self loathing and impotent rage.


cue "young frankenstein":

PUT ZE GOALPOSHTSH BECK!

your kneejerk wharrgarbl does more damage to any lgbtqwtfbbq equality than the impotent (and it worked if you're looking for attention) rage.

the longer "gay marriage" is an issue, the longer "#OMFGdiscrimination" will be a "#thing"...  it is GOING AWAY.  there's no real FIGHT anymore, unless it self-perpetuates...

so i'll paraphrase a political cartoon because i forget the artist, but it was BEAUTIFUL...  said essentially, "guess what, the newest generation of voters don't care what race/gender/orientation/identifier/etc. someone uses... so stop using those as talking points if you want votes.  the only reason we watch election debates is to mock you..."
 
2013-09-20 06:47:57 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Karac: [T]there's going to be a picture of you.  Right next to George Wallace, James Earl Ray, and the Ku Klux Klan.

Now that's not fair. George Wallace was smart and honest enough to realize he was wrong and publicly renounce his past support for segregation.


"does george wallace LOOK like a biatch?"
 
2013-09-20 06:48:56 PM  

Aristocles: So I guess you think the Feds should start busting up the head shops popping up in states that have decriminalized mary jane?


The Feds were busting medical dispensaries and grow operations until recently; we libs are all too aware that the current reprieve (if real--Obama promised something similar when he took office, but enforcement actually stepped up) is entirely a matter of policy, not law, and will end if the next president is a Republican.

"Head shops", on the other hand, can't be busted for selling glass pipes and groovy posters, only for selling actual illegal drugs.  The better run ones try to avoid that.

And, according to you, the Federal government should punish states that don't comply with Obamacare?

Yep.
 
2013-09-20 06:52:36 PM  

BeesNuts: Rapmaster2000: Ed Grubermann: Aristocles: So I guess you think the Feds should start busting up the head shops popping up in states that have decriminalized mary jane?

Christ, I know you're nothing but a bottom of the barrel troll, but "Mary Jane"? You try way too hard to be hep and with it.

I've seriously gone back to calling it reefer.  I love the old school terminology.

Jazz Cigarettes has been my preferred terminology since college.


would those be like "press-on blunts?"  keeps 'em from accidentally activating....
 
2013-09-20 06:53:37 PM  

Ed Grubermann: Now that's not fair. George Wallace was smart and honest enough to realize he was wrong

that he needed the black vote to get re-elected and publicly renounce his past support for segregation.

FTFY.
 
2013-09-20 07:01:32 PM  

Karac: It benefits by getting a lot of sweet, sweet federal dollars. The National Guard is primarily funded by the federal government.


Well, then, that suggests a simple way to deal with the current issue.  It worked for most universities.  (Bob Jones required the additional threat of taking away their tax-exempt status, IIUC.)
 
2013-09-20 07:03:19 PM  

cynicalminion: point of order there... any pre-existing marriage in TX would not have been annulled. TX would just no longer be able to recognize them. they'd still be recognized in other states...


For that matter, wouldn't other states be able to recognize recent marriages recognized in TX?  Just because Texas went full bore stupid doesn't mean other states have to follow.
 
2013-09-20 07:10:29 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Followup: OK Legislature passes complex laws to BRAC all the military bases in OK. "Hey, that's how they closed down Planned Parenthood in TX!"


Huh?  Base Realignment and Closure is something the federal government does to the states, not the other way around.

I don't know if a state could shut down a federal military base it didn't like, or if any has ever tried since 1865.
 
2013-09-20 07:13:32 PM  

cynicalminion: I thought we rather settled that particular State's rights vs federal power arguement with some finality a few years back everyone seemed quite cordial but definite on that point:
[graphics8.nytimes.com image 600x470]:

wow. painter's bias... lee gets gethsemane lighting?


Nice catch, the painting makes it look like the Union is surrendering to Lee!
 
2013-09-20 08:34:09 PM  

grumpfuff: That...that's beautiful. Your newsletter, sir. I wants.


Karac: [JokerAsCitizenKaneSlowClap.animgif]


Thanks, guys. It's not my own insights, though. Save Texas Marriage was pointing this out well before the November 8, 2005 election (link goes to Internet Wayback Machine ― do not attempt to go to that domain directly, as it's been bought out by Chinese, apparently for hacking purposes!)

Consider some of the other ramifications of this: every child born in Texas on or after November 8, 2005 is illegitimate, and since "recognize" is stated, this retroactively includes everyone in Texas all the way back to its Statehood, etc.!


flondrix: COMALite J: It is, of course, a fundamental law of logic, math, law, and, well, pretty much everything in every field of human endeavor, that anything is always "identical to" itself! A is A. x = x. The Identity Property.

I could see a lawyer making an argument that the laws are not based on logic, if it would benefit his case.  And there would be no shortage of examples to back up such a claim.

Certainly this one isn't.


cynicalminion: COMALite J:  That's right: All Texas marriages were annulled on November 8, 2005. For the past n ...

point of order there...  any pre-existing marriage in TX would not have been annulled.  TX would just no longer be able to recognize them.  they'd still be recognized in other states...

The whole thing was concerning how Texas law would see things, not other states. "Annulled" in Texas, as in Texas cannot recognized that any marriages (its own or any other States') ever existed, as far as its own law and Constitution are concerned.

Of course, the US Constitution might have something to say about all this, what with the States being explicitly forbidden from doing Ex Post Facto, not to mention the Full Faith and Credit clause and the oft-mentioned-in-this-thread Supremacy Clause. I was talking solely about Texas Constitutional law.
 
2013-09-20 08:37:11 PM  

MFAWG: sprawl15: Why do Republicans hate the troops?

They don't hate the troops. They just hate gay people more than they love America.


Given how often they try and get them killed unnecessarily for corporate profit and political power, and how they refuse to support them when they come home, I think it's fair to say that they most certainly DO hate the troops.

But they sure do like to CLAIM they support the troops, just like they claim they support the Constitution, support the American Dream, believe in fiscal responsibility, follow the Bible, and countless other moral positions short enough to fit on bumper stickers and crappy political comic strips.
 
2013-09-20 10:03:25 PM  
The anti gay rights movement is going to become increasingly petty and stupid as time continues to inevitably march forward.
 
2013-09-21 03:36:43 AM  

cynicalminion: the longer "gay marriage" is an issue, the longer "#OMFGdiscrimination" will be a "#thing"...  it is GOING AWAY.  there's no real FIGHT anymore, unless it self-perpetuates...

so i'll paraphrase a political cartoon because i forget the artist, but it was BEAUTIFUL...  said essentially, "guess what, the newest generation of voters don't care what race/gender/orientation/identifier/etc. someone uses... so stop using those as talking points if you want votes.  the only reason we watch election debates is to mock you..."


Let's not even try to change the laws because we can just call them changed even though they aren't.  Nobody in history has ever reformed anything by drawing attention to the problem.  It has always been the heroes who have bravely looked the other way and ignored injustice until it just sort of fixed itself.
 
2013-09-21 08:12:20 AM  
Eh I used to live in OK as a wee tyke when my parents were stationed at Tinker. I attended a "Christian" school there where, in hindsight, the staff seemed damn near rabid in their fundamentalist derpiness. This was back when corporal punishment was all the rage, and I remember trips to the principals office for ass whoopings for such egregious offenses as: bringing a HeMan action figure for show and tell, not remembering my prayers correctly, and using too much glue during a craft project.

The fact that this kind of news is coming out of OK does not surprise me in the least. fark that place.
 
2013-09-21 10:00:49 AM  

Aristocles: rwhamann: Aristocles: This thread is amazing.

I used to think Farklibs were just misguided ideologues but, it seems, they're intentionally ignoring the fact that this Gov. is merely following state law. Additionally, she's instructed same-sex couples on how to obtain benefits directly from the Federal Gov't.

Yet, the Farklibs here have nothing but blind hatred and unfounded contempt.

Or maybe the Farklibs and centrists understand that an immoral and unjust law should be ignored or fought, and grant her the disgust due her for not standing up for the rights of her minority citizens.

EXACTLY!

That's why the Great COMMONWEALTH of VIRGINIA! will be opposing the Stalinistic Obamacare~!!


See, here's the thing.

As absurd as it sounds, there are respected trolls on fark.

To be one, you must be smart - above all, entertaining.

It makes me kind of sad for you because you seem to want it so bad, but your efforts so far just aren't good enough.

I hope you can up your game. Otherwise it's just going to be the same tired, pathetic, regurgitation that we keep seeing.

And that will make sad. Like seeing a not so witty waiter trying to interject at the Algonquin round table.
 
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