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(Simons Foundation)   Physicists have discovered a jewel-like geometric object that simplifies particle interactions and challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality. So, like that cat toy Will Smith was after in Men in Black?   (simonsfoundation.org) divider line 90
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3775 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Sep 2013 at 11:23 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-19 10:37:42 AM
Sounds like a physicists' philosopher stone,er jewel.
 
2013-09-19 10:40:56 AM
I thought he was after Linda Fiorentino.
 
2013-09-19 10:46:40 AM
That's cool...so which one of us is Neo?
 
2013-09-19 10:56:03 AM

UberDave: That's cool...so which one of us is Neo?


One of those white mice scientists keep playing with. Unfortunately, he's a quantum mouse, so I can't really tell you where he is.
 
2013-09-19 10:57:13 AM
I reject your components of reality and substitute my own.
 
2013-09-19 11:00:44 AM

Nogrhi: I reject your components of reality and substitute my own.


That option is not available in this dimension. Please try another one.
 
2013-09-19 11:07:12 AM

simplicimus: UberDave: That's cool...so which one of us is Neo?

One of those white mice scientists keep playing with. Unfortunately, he's a quantum mouse, so I can't really tell you where he is.


Schrodinger's Cat ate him.

/maybe
 
2013-09-19 11:09:50 AM
"Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
 
2013-09-19 11:28:58 AM
So can this thing be used for wart removal or not?
 
2013-09-19 11:29:20 AM
DeBeers will immediately corner the market., forcing you to pay 3 months salary for particle computations.
 
2013-09-19 11:29:37 AM
The real question is can Bob Mackie make me a dress out of it?
 
2013-09-19 11:32:50 AM
And by 'discovered,' you mean 'invented.'
 
2013-09-19 11:34:47 AM

I_C_Weener: Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat


That kinda ruined the line for me because it's totally ignorant.
 
2013-09-19 11:37:49 AM
Yeah, that was a really well written article about a potentially really cool discovery.

Here's a good talk on it given by Arkani-Hamed for those interested

Mostly unrelated, but this sort of reminded me on this guys theory, which I always kind of hoped would pan out, though the math goes way over my head once your in the weeds.

An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything
 
2013-09-19 11:37:49 AM
Space and time might be fundamental to our reality but we're just a thin layer of gabardine away from public indecency 24 hours a day.

And that's public indecency as defined by a species that regularly slaughters millions of its own kind for the most specious of reasons.

I figure--as the dross of truly sophisticated forms of life--our primordial ancestors needed to invent time and space just so they could find a decent spot for a morning bowel movement.
 
2013-09-19 11:38:41 AM
i1151.photobucket.com
`A jewel-like geometric object that simplifies particle interactions and challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality.'

`It's starting to NOT make sense again. I suggest we re-visit the bong.'
 
2013-09-19 11:39:27 AM
So the New Age nutaballs and meth addicts were right all along ...

Its all about the crystal.
 
2013-09-19 11:41:29 AM
My pretty farking high hypothesis (PFHP):

Energy filtered through these crystals to produce spacetime at the quantum level. How that matter is realized depends of the path it takes through the crystals matrix.

/Woah
 
2013-09-19 11:43:31 AM
42
 
2013-09-19 11:51:01 AM

Bacontastesgood: I_C_Weener: Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat

That kinda ruined the line for me because it's totally ignorant.


And if they'd said "Five hundred years ago the majority of the uneducated population, which which was virtually everybody, believed the world was flat even though the prevailing view among the educated elite was that it was spherical, and it should be remarked that in any society there is a knowledge gap between the educated and the everyman even more so in an environment where there was limited access to books and widespread illiteracy" then the line would have been ruined because it would be a shiat line.
 
2013-09-19 11:51:16 AM
I read the article, and now I have a nosebleed.
 
2013-09-19 11:53:45 AM
I'd like to say I understood all of that, but first I'd have to read all of that, and it's a bit heavy when you know you wont understand all of that.......
 
2013-09-19 11:56:54 AM
Good luck with that.
 
2013-09-19 12:05:01 PM

simplicimus: UberDave: That's cool...so which one of us is Neo?

One of those white mice scientists keep playing with. Unfortunately, he's a quantum mouse, so I can't really tell you where he is.


Ok, so what's his momentum?
 
2013-09-19 12:07:23 PM
This is most definitely a bookmark. I can't wait to dive into this when I get home tonight. Man, I love this stuff. I just wish I could afford the classwork to get a degree in these fields. *fanboy gushing continues*
 
2013-09-19 12:07:43 PM

error 303: Yeah, that was a really well written article about a potentially really cool discovery.

Here's a good talk on it given by Arkani-Hamed for those interested

Mostly unrelated, but this sort of reminded me on this guys theory, which I always kind of hoped would pan out, though the math goes way over my head once your in the weeds.

An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything


That Wikipedia article contains my favorite "non-technical overview" ever.

Maybe someone could sum it up for those of us who only had a couple of grad-level discrete math classes.
 
2013-09-19 12:08:23 PM

Tigger: Bacontastesgood: I_C_Weener: Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat

That kinda ruined the line for me because it's totally ignorant.

And if they'd said "Five hundred years ago the majority of the uneducated population, which which was virtually everybody, believed the world was flat even though the prevailing view among the educated elite was that it was spherical, and it should be remarked that in any society there is a knowledge gap between the educated and the everyman even more so in an environment where there was limited access to books and widespread illiteracy" then the line would have been ruined because it would be a shiat line.


...which would also not be true. Anybody who lived in a port or fishing village and had either sailed over the horizon or watched a boat sail over the horizon and back again knew perfectly well that the Earth was not flat. Heck, merely climbing a cliff and noticing that the horizon was more distant would be enough. If people were being taught nothing, it's far more likely they would conclude from their own experience that the Earth was not flat.

AFAIK there is no evidence that even the uneducated and illiterate masses believed in a flat Earth. Do you have a citation to the contrary? Maybe a letter or journal by one of the "educated elite" mocking the ignorance of the masses? Or perhaps a parish priest's letter to his bishop bemoaning the stupidity of his rural congregation? Is there anything at all contemporary or near contemporary or only long-after-fact condescension?
 
2013-09-19 12:11:44 PM
Wow, this is actually big. This is E=MC2 big. This is something that could eventually change physics and even our comprehension of physics and reality itself.

Whoa dot jpeg.
 
2013-09-19 12:11:52 PM
This thing?

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-19 12:12:31 PM

Bacontastesgood: I_C_Weener: Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat

That kinda ruined the line for me because it's totally ignorant.


Thank you for posting that.
 
2013-09-19 12:14:45 PM

Zombalupagus: Wow, this is actually big. This is E=MC2 big. This is something that could eventually change physics and even our comprehension of physics and reality itself.

Whoa dot jpeg.


Almost makes me wish I was a theoretical physicist instead of an experimentalist.

*Almost*.
 
2013-09-19 12:16:55 PM

jfarkinB: error 303: Yeah, that was a really well written article about a potentially really cool discovery.

Here's a good talk on it given by Arkani-Hamed for those interested

Mostly unrelated, but this sort of reminded me on this guys theory, which I always kind of hoped would pan out, though the math goes way over my head once your in the weeds.

An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything

That Wikipedia article contains my favorite "non-technical overview" ever.

Maybe someone could sum it up for those of us who only had a couple of grad-level discrete math classes.


His FAQ section does perhaps a slightly better job?

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/107
 
2013-09-19 12:17:10 PM
tl;dr:

Natural assumptions of in quantum mechanics of Locality (particles interacting at discrete points in space) and Unitarity (the probabilities of all possible quantum outcomes of an interaction equaling exactly 1) lead to unwieldy calculations under normal circumstances, and lead to gobbledygook in regions of extreme gravity.

There is now a relatively straightforward (though extra-dimensional) geometric construct that seems to simplify everything drastically, and perhaps even allows for meaningful calculations in the gobbledygook zone. The side effect is that Locality and Unitarity are thrown overboard.

This further implies that spacetime is emergent from quantum interactions, rather than being a fundamental aspect of reality -- in other words, that our 3-space/1-time universe is a kind of cosmic printout of what's really going on behind the scenes in a higher-dimensional CPU.

/I think I got this right.
 
2013-09-19 12:17:45 PM
Great, now my brains have oozed out of my nose.
 
2013-09-19 12:18:40 PM

basscomm: This thing?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 629x476]


Cave Dwellers!!!!

(Watched it a couple of months ago...MST3K version of course)
 
2013-09-19 12:20:07 PM

BKITU: tl;dr:

Natural assumptions of in quantum mechanics of Locality (particles interacting at discrete points in space) and Unitarity (the probabilities of all possible quantum outcomes of an interaction equaling exactly 1) lead to unwieldy calculations under normal circumstances, and lead to gobbledygook in regions of extreme gravity.

There is now a relatively straightforward (though extra-dimensional) geometric construct that seems to simplify everything drastically, and perhaps even allows for meaningful calculations in the gobbledygook zone. The side effect is that Locality and Unitarity are thrown overboard.

This further implies that spacetime is emergent from quantum interactions, rather than being a fundamental aspect of reality -- in other words, that our 3-space/1-time universe is a kind of cosmic printout of what's really going on behind the scenes in a higher-dimensional CPU.

/I think I got this right.


That's what I got out of it too. I'll spare the cpu cycles tonight to really dive in and read the supporting docs.
 
2013-09-19 12:23:55 PM

I_C_Weener: "Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."


Then what was that small four legged thing begging for scraps I saw this afternoon?

/And why couldn't anyone else aee it?
 
2013-09-19 12:24:03 PM

Zavulon: simplicimus: UberDave: That's cool...so which one of us is Neo?

One of those white mice scientists keep playing with. Unfortunately, he's a quantum mouse, so I can't really tell you where he is.

Ok, so what's his momentum?


He's on one of those wheel things. He moves a lot, but doesn't go anywhere.
 
2013-09-19 12:24:33 PM

I_C_Weener: "Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."


I am pretty sure that 21 years after Columbas sailed to North America, the flat earthers had seen a huge decrease in membership.
 
2013-09-19 12:26:42 PM
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 
2013-09-19 12:27:59 PM
So can this thing power an infinite improbability drive, or is it more of a cosmic cube thing?
 
2013-09-19 12:29:11 PM
Am I the first?
i183.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-19 12:33:44 PM
BKITU:
This further implies that spacetime is emergent from quantum interactions, rather than being a fundamental aspect of reality -- in other words, that our 3-space/1-time universe is a kind of cosmic printout of what's really going on behind the scenes in a higher-dimensional CPU.

/I think I got this right.



That's the part that has my brain going tilt, even moreso than ditching locality and unitarity.  I'm wondering, if this all pans out...  wtf might an eventual theory of space/time/gravity really look like, coming out of this?  "At some level, matter/energy generates space and time, so it has the room to do stuff and the time to do stuff in?"

/More coffee.  Yes.
 
2013-09-19 12:34:28 PM

Nurglitch: And by 'discovered,' you mean 'invented.'


Asking whether mathematics is discovered or invented is like asking whether it's duck season or rabbit season. Opinions differ.
 
2013-09-19 12:35:56 PM
Time only exists to keep everything from happening all at once

Space only exists to keep everything from happening all together.

/don't get me started about Lunchtime.
//doubly so
 
2013-09-19 12:36:21 PM

basscomm: This thing?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 629x476]


"It is everything... and nothing."
"Could you be a little more vague, please?"

/has more pauses than a Pinter play
 
2013-09-19 12:36:37 PM

xanadian: simplicimus: UberDave: That's cool...so which one of us is Neo?

One of those white mice scientists keep playing with. Unfortunately, he's a quantum mouse, so I can't really tell you where he is.

Schrodinger's Cat ate him.

/maybe


Did you observe this? If you did, you affected the outcome. YOU'RE the killer!
 
2013-09-19 12:45:12 PM
Layman's question: Why was locality not thrown out the window as soon as quantum entanglement was proven?  It seems like that's a nail in the coffin.
 
2013-09-19 12:49:48 PM

dfacto: Layman's question: Why was locality not thrown out the window as soon as quantum entanglement was proven?  It seems like that's a nail in the coffin.


Quantum entanglement doesn't work the way most people think it works. If you jiggle one quantum entangled particle, it doesn't actually make the other one jiggle: No information is transferred.
 
2013-09-19 12:56:53 PM

dfacto: Layman's question: Why was locality not thrown out the window as soon as quantum entanglement was proven?  It seems like that's a nail in the coffin.


Because entanglement is not an interaction between particles, but rather a spatially-independent correlation of states between them.

This may seem like splitting hairs, but it's the difference between Alice and Bob having a car accident (interaction), and Alice and Bob always buying the same type of car at the exact same time and driving the same number of miles per day (correlation). The correlation happens without the particles interacting.

Tossing Locality is like saying that Alice and Bob can have a car accident with each other when Alice is in Pittsburgh and Bob is in Dallas. The fact that they happened to have the same type of car when they collided is irrelevant.
 
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