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(Guardian)   It took a whole day for a group to condemn something about GTA V. Rockstar North has lost its edge apparently   (theguardian.com) divider line 128
    More: Interesting, Rockstar North, interrogation scene  
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3132 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Sep 2013 at 11:17 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-19 09:54:05 AM
I knew it! I knew it was a documentary. It seemed too real to not be.
 
2013-09-19 09:54:57 AM
They really should try playing Spec Ops: The Line.
 
2013-09-19 10:02:19 AM
Also, spoiler alert. Some of us haven't made it that far, dicks.
 
2013-09-19 10:07:53 AM

The Goddamn Batman: Also, spoiler alert. Some of us haven't made it that far, dicks.


Did you know that Bruce Way---wait, of course you do. What am I, dense? Am I retarded or something? Who the hell do I think you are?

/Sephiroth kills Aerith
//the ship hits an iceberg
///Bill cheats on Hillary with a fat chick
 
2013-09-19 10:21:24 AM
I haven't made it that far yet either.....
 
2013-09-19 10:34:23 AM
I like how they equate "participation" with "glamorizing". They're not the same. I've seen a number of reviewers say that the scene made them extremely uncomfortable, a few to the point of not continuing the game. I'd wager they represent the majority of people.

As a participatory medium, videogames tap into the player's sense of agency. Thus, the player feels responsible in some small way for the torture taking place on the screen, in a way that can't be achieved in books or movies. For most decent people, this has the opposite of the claimed effect- they take notice and are repulsed in a way that they would not be if they were merely passive observers. The thoughtful ones will translate the pain and suffering found in the game and realize that the same thing happens to real people in the world, which activates the player as an agent of change. For comparison, this is the exact same type of thing that performance artists have been trying to do forever.
 
2013-09-19 10:38:33 AM
I condemn the lack of a PC version.
 
2013-09-19 10:38:51 AM
I haven't gotten that far yet.  I've just been going to the strip club and trying to touch the girls while the bouncer isn't looking.
 
2013-09-19 10:44:29 AM

RedPhoenix122: They really should try playing Spec Ops: The Line.


That game conspires to make me feel like crap, especially where you use that thing and it does that thing to the group of people.
 
2013-09-19 11:20:12 AM
 
2013-09-19 11:24:41 AM
I'd like to condemn it for the crappy AI and overused pedestrian models instead.
 
2013-09-19 11:25:00 AM

RexTalionis: RedPhoenix122: They really should try playing Spec Ops: The Line.

That game conspires to make me feel like crap, especially where you use that thing and it does that thing to the group of people


Yeah, you can't unsee that.
 
2013-09-19 11:25:28 AM
I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.
 
2013-09-19 11:31:39 AM

Carth: I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.


Not less XBone or PonyStation change their content licenses. The only reason you can't kill kids is because the console overlords don't want you to. Maybe Steam box will be different and just go the fark it do whatever the hell your sick twisted mind wants. Not sure on the liability of that though. I mean if you make a video game console and have no rules on content, does it make you liable if some sick fark makes a game about raping and killing  kids?
 
2013-09-19 11:34:53 AM

Slaves2Darkness: Carth: I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.

Not less XBone or PonyStation change their content licenses. The only reason you can't kill kids is because the console overlords don't want you to. Maybe Steam box will be different and just go the fark it do whatever the hell your sick twisted mind wants. Not sure on the liability of that though. I mean if you make a video game console and have no rules on content, does it make you liable if some sick fark makes a game about raping and killing  kids?


I didn't know MS and Sony went out of their way to prevent kids being killed in video games with content regulations. It makes sense now that i think about it with all the Elderscrolls games and open world games either not having kids or ignoring the fact many gang members are 14-17 in real life.
 
2013-09-19 11:41:12 AM
I'm surprised this wasn't about the sex scene.
 
2013-09-19 11:42:20 AM
Here I thought it was going to be about the sex and exposed boobies.
 
2013-09-19 11:43:14 AM
PETA is going to have a damn coronary when they find out about all the wildlife you can run over.
 
2013-09-19 11:43:33 AM
Torturing one guy is worse than murdering a hundred bystanders in a drive-by, got it.
 
2013-09-19 11:44:04 AM

Carth: Slaves2Darkness: Carth: I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.

Not less XBone or PonyStation change their content licenses. The only reason you can't kill kids is because the console overlords don't want you to. Maybe Steam box will be different and just go the fark it do whatever the hell your sick twisted mind wants. Not sure on the liability of that though. I mean if you make a video game console and have no rules on content, does it make you liable if some sick fark makes a game about raping and killing  kids?

I didn't know MS and Sony went out of their way to prevent kids being killed in video games with content regulations. It makes sense now that i think about it with all the Elderscrolls games and open world games either not having kids or ignoring the fact many gang members are 14-17 in real life.


Yeah, this particular restriction pops up a lot.  Examples: There are no children (at all) in the Saint's Row series.  You can't kill the child Boomers in Fallout: New Vegas.

I don't think Valve has any particular restriction like this on Steam, but PC (and the Steam Box if/when it ever materializes) is a smaller market that the consoles anyways.
 
2013-09-19 11:47:18 AM
Just read there are $800 million reasons for you to STFU
 
2013-09-19 11:47:24 AM
"Jack Thompson, a now-disbarred attorney in the state of Florida..."

That statement put a huge smile on my face.  I had forgotten about that jack-hole.
 
2013-09-19 11:54:06 AM

Geotpf: You can't kill the child Boomers in Fallout: New Vegas.


Not for lack of trying, though.  Those kids in Fallout 3 especially.  I even entered cheat codes to get the nuke launcher in order to try and blast those obnoxious assholes into the next life.

All they did was run away.
 
2013-09-19 11:55:14 AM
Yankton is an actual place.  Still waiting for people (say, the gta wiki) to realize that.

It's probably one of the more likely towns in the Dakotas for a bank robbery.
 
2013-09-19 11:58:56 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Torturing one guy is worse than murdering a hundred bystanders in a drive-by, got it.


The only quest in a particular MMO I never want to do involves torturing the enemy.  "Go kill 12 of those guys", no problem, but the "go over to those same guys, capture one, and torture him."?

No thanks.

There is a line.

I still kinda hate the Brotherhood in Saint's Row 2.  Poor Carlos....

//And Jessica, holy fark, I put the game down for a bit after that.
 
2013-09-19 12:00:21 PM
I love that people cherry pick the things games "teach".   OMG it teaches you that torture is ok!   By that standard it also teaches you that if you blow up 10 people with a hand grenade on a busy street the cops will stop searching for you if you run around the corner out of direct line of sight.
 
2013-09-19 12:02:40 PM
Meanwhile...
www-deadline-com.vimg.net
 
2013-09-19 12:03:49 PM
CHARLIE M?  CHARLIE M?
 
2013-09-19 12:03:55 PM
FTA: "The graphics are so realistic that little ones don't think what they're watching is a game," she said. "Four to five-year-olds have a tendency to copy what they see on TV, whether it's this or Fireman Sam putting out fires"

Any time someone fires up that excuse, I know they're morons who should be ignored.  The problem is not the content, the problem is some idiot letting a 4 year old play or watch this game.  I guess they support banning rated R & X movies too, because "think of the children!"
 
2013-09-19 12:05:49 PM

Theaetetus: Meanwhile...
[www-deadline-com.vimg.net image 600x781]


Until Zero Dark Thirty gets cited in the Supreme Court Jack Bauer is still winning.
 
2013-09-19 12:09:08 PM

Carth: I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.


Interestingly, there have never been kids in GTA games for precisely this reason. It would be immersion-breaking if kids were all immortal, and yet they didn't want to allow the player to kill kids.
There also haven't been animals other than pigeons or rats previously, for the same reason. This is the first GTA with dogs... which leads to this. (large GIF)
 
2013-09-19 12:11:23 PM

Theaetetus: Carth: I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.

Interestingly, there have never been kids in GTA games for precisely this reason. It would be immersion-breaking if kids were all immortal, and yet they didn't want to allow the player to kill kids.
There also haven't been animals other than pigeons or rats previously, for the same reason. This is the first GTA with dogs... which leads to this. (large GIF)


Well, there's Bully, but there was no killing in that.  Even then, it got huge amounts of outrage.  Too bad, it was probably my favorite Rock* game to date.  Small map, but so much personality and character.
 
2013-09-19 12:12:41 PM

Theaetetus: Carth: I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.

Interestingly, there have never been kids in GTA games for precisely this reason. It would be immersion-breaking if kids were all immortal, and yet they didn't want to allow the player to kill kids.
There also haven't been animals other than pigeons or rats previously, for the same reason. This is the first GTA with dogs... which leads to this. (large GIF)


It does seem really weird when I think about it that they spend 200+ million dollars creating a lifelike functional city and there are no people under 18 or moms pushing strollers. If you're going to have people committing mass murder, torture and drug hits why not go the whole way.
 
2013-09-19 12:14:28 PM

Shadowknight: Geotpf: You can't kill the child Boomers in Fallout: New Vegas.

Not for lack of trying, though.  Those kids in Fallout 3 especially.  I even entered cheat codes to get the nuke launcher in order to try and blast those obnoxious assholes into the next life.

All they did was run away.


There's a mod for that.

/ Glorious etc.
 
2013-09-19 12:19:34 PM

Carth: It does seem really weird when I think about it that they spend 200+ million dollars creating a lifelike functional city and there are no people under 18 or moms pushing strollers. If you're going to have people committing mass murder, torture and drug hits why not go the whole way.


There's the Bethesda route of having kids but making them invincible, or the Bioshock Infinite route of doing the same AND teleporting them out of whatever battle arena you happen to be in once the bullets start flying.

/or the Fallout 1&2 route of letting you kill children, then marking you with the stigma
 
2013-09-19 12:21:49 PM

Luse: Shadowknight: Geotpf: You can't kill the child Boomers in Fallout: New Vegas.

Not for lack of trying, though.  Those kids in Fallout 3 especially.  I even entered cheat codes to get the nuke launcher in order to try and blast those obnoxious assholes into the next life.

All they did was run away.

There's a mod for that.

/ Glorious etc.


Fallout 2 handled it very well, I thought.  You could do it, but it caused people to treat you...  Well, about as warmly as you'd expect a known child-killer to be treated.  Good balance to discourage nutjobs.  Of course, it's not just that gaming has gotten more uptight, there's also an element of the way better graphics make kid-killing a whole lot squickier than it was in low-res sprites.  It's a falling safe in Looney Toons as opposed to a falling ATM in Breaking Bad.  There's a big visual component that makes a difference.
 
2013-09-19 12:27:08 PM
Jeez, the folks in TFA are all wound up about little kids playing the game and seeing what happens.

The GTA series ought to be considered as an R rated movie. If you're letting 4 and 5 year olds consume that media, you've failed as a parent. If you're dealing with a parent who is foolish enough to let their kids consume stuff like this, then the existence or absence of GTA V in that kid's gaming portfolio isn't going to change one single thing- you're still going to end up with a little jackass that's been screwed up because he had shiatty parents.

It's not for kids. The only people doubting that it isn't for kids are "parents" who don't spend two seconds critically examining the media their kids are consuming. And they're bad parents. If we're going to create a society where bad parents can't screw up their kids because they don't have any available poor choices to make for their children then life is going to suck and suck hard for anybody who isn't a kid.
 
2013-09-19 12:27:36 PM

Last Man on Earth: Luse: Shadowknight: Geotpf: You can't kill the child Boomers in Fallout: New Vegas.

Not for lack of trying, though.  Those kids in Fallout 3 especially.  I even entered cheat codes to get the nuke launcher in order to try and blast those obnoxious assholes into the next life.

All they did was run away.

There's a mod for that.

/ Glorious etc.

Fallout 2 handled it very well, I thought.  You could do it, but it caused people to treat you...  Well, about as warmly as you'd expect a known child-killer to be treated.  Good balance to discourage nutjobs.  Of course, it's not just that gaming has gotten more uptight, there's also an element of the way better graphics make kid-killing a whole lot squickier than it was in low-res sprites.  It's a falling safe in Looney Toons as opposed to a falling ATM in Breaking Bad.  There's a big visual component that makes a difference.


Never played Fallout but how do those interactions occur?  Like is the killing of a child something you can actually avoid?   For instance in PayDay 2 you get a hit off your money for killing a civilian, however those same civilians will run directly in the middle of a gun battle and the cops don't even stop shooting to let them clear the area.   Nothing like what would actually happen and for most players if the choice is die (and have to restart or take penalty) or blaze through bad AI driven NPCs it's not even something anyone would think about.  
So are the situations controlled to where the killing or not killing of a kid is very clear cut or do you have to deal with shiat AI for NPCs and find yourself in an "unwinnable" situation?
 
2013-09-19 12:27:56 PM
Still, it draws attention away from the ongoing Dickwolves saga I suppose
 
2013-09-19 12:33:21 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: For instance in PayDay 2 you get a hit off your money for killing a civilian, however those same civilians will run directly in the middle of a gun battle and the cops don't even stop shooting to let them clear the area. Nothing like what would actually happen


Actually that sounds about right.

/Just kidding NYPD dont shoot me.
 
2013-09-19 12:34:14 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: Like is the killing of a child something you can actually avoid?


Yep.  However, you have guns that spray and you can miss your target and accidently shoot a kid.  At least that is what happened with me in Fallout 2.  I owned it though, carried it as a badge of shame (didn't reload).

/also, you get bad karma for being a grave robber
 
2013-09-19 12:35:52 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: Never played Fallout but how do those interactions occur? Like is the killing of a child something you can actually avoid? For instance in PayDay 2 you get a hit off your money for killing a civilian, however those same civilians will run directly in the middle of a gun battle and the cops don't even stop shooting to let them clear the area. Nothing like what would actually happen and for most players if the choice is die (and have to restart or take penalty) or blaze through bad AI driven NPCs it's not even something anyone would think about.
So are the situations controlled to where the killing or not killing of a kid is very clear cut or do you have to deal with shiat AI for NPCs and find yourself in an "unwinnable" situation?


Fallout 1 and 2 are isometeric, more-or-less turn-based RPGs, as opposed to 3/NV's FPS/RPG hybrid.  Generally, civvies run for the hills when shooting starts.  Hit percentages being what they are, it's possible to hit a noncombatant with a bad miss, or catch one in a grenade's detonation, but that's rare if you have even a fraction of a brain.  In practice, you pretty much have to try to kill them, either by direct fire, or through "reverse pickpocketing" (prime a bomb, plant it on the person, BOOM).
 
2013-09-19 12:36:43 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: Never played Fallout but how do those interactions occur? Like is the killing of a child something you can actually avoid?


Generally, bugs aside. They aren't running around in combat zones, but if you open up with automatic weapons or explosives in a civilian area you can clip them. And of course you can just kill them if you feel like being a bastard.

DoBeDoBeDo: So are the situations controlled to where the killing or not killing of a kid is very clear cut


It's not totally clear cut, but that's systemic; kids will run up to you and pickpocket your shiat. You can kill them to get it back, or steal it back, or just say it's gone and let them live. Very few things are clear cut in FO1/2.
 
2013-09-19 12:37:52 PM

Last Man on Earth: DoBeDoBeDo: Never played Fallout but how do those interactions occur? Like is the killing of a child something you can actually avoid? For instance in PayDay 2 you get a hit off your money for killing a civilian, however those same civilians will run directly in the middle of a gun battle and the cops don't even stop shooting to let them clear the area. Nothing like what would actually happen and for most players if the choice is die (and have to restart or take penalty) or blaze through bad AI driven NPCs it's not even something anyone would think about.
So are the situations controlled to where the killing or not killing of a kid is very clear cut or do you have to deal with shiat AI for NPCs and find yourself in an "unwinnable" situation?

Fallout 1 and 2 are isometeric, more-or-less turn-based RPGs, as opposed to 3/NV's FPS/RPG hybrid.  Generally, civvies run for the hills when shooting starts.  Hit percentages being what they are, it's possible to hit a noncombatant with a bad miss, or catch one in a grenade's detonation, but that's rare if you have even a fraction of a brain.  In practice, you pretty much have to try to kill them, either by direct fire, or through "reverse pickpocketing" (prime a bomb, plant it on the person, BOOM).


One game I shot one because he wouldn't move out of the doorway and I would have to reload the last 15 mins.  I did reload, but I took my frustration out on the kid.
 
2013-09-19 12:39:43 PM

Carth: DoBeDoBeDo: For instance in PayDay 2 you get a hit off your money for killing a civilian, however those same civilians will run directly in the middle of a gun battle and the cops don't even stop shooting to let them clear the area. Nothing like what would actually happen

Actually that sounds about right.

/Just kidding NYPD dont shoot me.


Heh, I WISH the cops in PayDay2 shot like that.
 
2013-09-19 12:47:16 PM

Shadowknight: Geotpf: You can't kill the child Boomers in Fallout: New Vegas.

Not for lack of trying, though.  Those kids in Fallout 3 especially.  I even entered cheat codes to get the nuke launcher in order to try and blast those obnoxious assholes into the next life.

All they did was run away.


Atleast you can still sell them into slavery!
 
2013-09-19 12:47:22 PM
erm

Their argument seems to be "little kids could be playing/watching this" WTF ?????? sooo you are worried little Timmy is going to watch/play this whole game and the only thing you are concerned about him mimicking is ... torture? O_o
 
2013-09-19 12:49:57 PM

ToastTheRabbit: erm

Their argument seems to be "little kids could be playing/watching this" WTF ?????? sooo you are worried little Timmy is going to watch/play this whole game and the only thing you are concerned about him mimicking is ... torture? O_o


People are farking stupid. I'm not suprised anymore.
 
2013-09-19 12:53:51 PM
Didn't RTFA, but is no one going to mention how Trevor suddenly becomes very anti torture after he's done?
 
2013-09-19 12:56:19 PM

Theaetetus: Carth: I have no problems with GTA including senseless mass murder of thousands of people because most sane people know that is wrong. The fact so many people support either the US government or 24 style torture makes it so this squicks me out a bit more.

Where are they going to go from here though? Maybe GTA VI will include schools you can walk into and shoot up? That would make some headlines.

Interestingly, there have never been kids in GTA games for precisely this reason. It would be immersion-breaking if kids were all immortal, and yet they didn't want to allow the player to kill kids.
There also haven't been animals other than pigeons or rats previously, for the same reason. This is the first GTA with dogs... which leads to this. (large GIF)


Dogs, coyotes, deer, boars, fish, and sharks. Anybody know if there are any other animals out there in GTA 5? I've not seen a snake yet.
 
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