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(Slate)   Twas circumcision and fringe groups that broke the internet, not those videos of your Mom   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, systematic review, marketplace of ideas, penile cancers, male sexuality, circumcisions, amputations, female genital mutilation, mutilation  
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7993 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2013 at 5:17 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-18 08:15:34 PM  
FTFA: "None of intactivists' cornerstone beliefs are based in reality or science; rather, they're founded in lore."

So Dr. Noonien Soong gave Lore the emotion chip and Data got a foreskin. I see.


Don't ask how I came up with this, I'm not even a Trekkie.
 
2013-09-18 08:16:25 PM  

Quinsisdos: Shostie: This was a fun thread.

I know, right? The fact a pro-circumcision lobby exists makes my farking skin crawl.

/Would rather suck on an uncut dick
//Picked a guy with good dick hygene


How many did you go through before finding the clean guy? Or did you just get lucky?
 
2013-09-18 08:16:38 PM  

Boojum2k: Argyle82: You have a list of favorite female fark posters on your bio.

Yep, from a long time back, from long nights on TFD. I also keep the beer/coffee list for those I disagreed with and argued with but I respect. Your profile shows a given name that may or may not be made up, a crap map, and a reminder when I look that you are, in fact, a bigot. An insecure one at that.


You're right, I'm a huge bigot, because I believe that;
Americans will defend American ways.
Jews will defend Jewish ways.
Muslims will defend Muslim ways
Athiests will defend Atheist ways
Hindus will defend Hindu ways
Christians will defend Christain ways
Mongolians will defend Mongolian ways
Djiboutis will defend Djibouti ways
Finnish will defend Finland ways,

etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
 
2013-09-18 08:17:55 PM  

Boojum2k: MaestroJ: Boojum2k: MaestroJ: Why is it that I seem to be the most emotionally stable person on this page... yet by all accounts I should be the most distraught? And this is including the people on "my side"

Personal bias. You've actually been a bit histrionic, really, but since to you that's normal you project that out, and since others don't share your experiences you feel like you are the stable one.

Perhaps I was dramatic in one admittedly, though, I was indeed telling the truth when referring to a bloody puberty and medical procedure. Must admit yes, I got more emotional than I probably should have.

I am finding some of the actual biting vitriol here, on both sides, very confusing though. I'll try to sound less dramatic in the future, however.

You've had a personally traumatic experience related to the topic, though extremely rare, it would be surprising if you didn't have an emotional reaction.


I did have the "emotional" time in the early 20s. I'm 27 now, made peace with my folks and with the fact I'm likely not going to get a partner. I think the one thing that ever does get to me is if someone confronts me with the idea that I don't exist.
 
2013-09-18 08:18:22 PM  

Jill'sNipple: Look, you're welcome to get all sexually excited about this issue, misquote folks and troll the hell out of this thread, but WOULD YOU PLEASE START SPELLING 'GENITAL' CORRECTLY? I should have known that someone who's too stupid to learn how to clean his own penis without cutting part of it off would also be too stupid to spell the basic terms pertaining to what is apparently your favorite topic.


Well, at least we know that iphone autocorrect transposing the I in genital makes you froth at the mouth.

Had I actually any desire to troll you (Which you seem to be doing yourself, since you're ignoring the substance of the post to nit-pick at spelling errors), at least I know how to set off pedantic OCD attacks of impotent rage upon the internet from this point forward.

Also, how would I have any control over whether I was circumcised or not? I'm curious how your insult has any bearing on this discussion?
 
2013-09-18 08:18:24 PM  

hardinparamedic: Mike Chewbacca: There's no NEED to circumcise every boy, especially since we as a nation started doing so to keep boys from whacking off (and it didn't even work). Just let your kid decide when he's old enough to understand what's going on.

No one has said there is a NEED to circumcise every boy. What people have said is that it should be a decision left to parents after getting both the pros and the cons of doing so.


OR, since we've all already agreed that the benefits (and risks) are slim, especially for virgin males, why don't we just let the actual owner of the penis make the decision?
 
2013-09-18 08:18:40 PM  

Argyle82: You're right, I'm a huge bigot, because I believe that If you're Jewish, you're more likely to conduct/make up research that supports your outdated religious ritual, to defend it.


FTFY with your own statement.
 
2013-09-18 08:20:03 PM  

Boojum2k: How many did you go through before finding the clean guy? Or did you just get lucky?


First time was the charm. Then again, I live in a sensible country.
 
2013-09-18 08:20:09 PM  

Argyle82: Jews will defend Jewish ways.


You've yet to demonstrate any of those authors were Jewish, or are of Jewish descent. That's the hillarious thing here, despite claiming otherwise based on their names.

For someone who's NOT a bigot, you sure are going a long way to justify using racial and ethnic stereotypes about Jews.
 
2013-09-18 08:21:45 PM  

Boojum2k: Quinsisdos: Shostie: This was a fun thread.

I know, right? The fact a pro-circumcision lobby exists makes my farking skin crawl.

/Would rather suck on an uncut dick
//Picked a guy with good dick hygene

How many did you go through before finding the clean guy? Or did you just get lucky?


I was actually about to ask that.

I envision it went something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6eTTaY1a6M

/probably nsfw
 
2013-09-18 08:22:45 PM  

Shostie: Boojum2k: Quinsisdos: Shostie: This was a fun thread.

I know, right? The fact a pro-circumcision lobby exists makes my farking skin crawl.

/Would rather suck on an uncut dick
//Picked a guy with good dick hygene

How many did you go through before finding the clean guy? Or did you just get lucky?

I was actually about to ask that.

I envision it went something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6eTTaY1a6M

/probably nsfw


One of the best movies of all times. You sir, are an Officer and a Gentleman.
 
2013-09-18 08:23:10 PM  

Argyle82: Boojum2k: Argyle82: You have a list of favorite female fark posters on your bio.

Yep, from a long time back, from long nights on TFD. I also keep the beer/coffee list for those I disagreed with and argued with but I respect. Your profile shows a given name that may or may not be made up, a crap map, and a reminder when I look that you are, in fact, a bigot. An insecure one at that.

You're right, I'm a huge bigot, because I believe that;
Americans will defend American ways.
Jews will defend Jewish ways.
Muslims will defend Muslim ways
Athiests will defend Atheist ways
Hindus will defend Hindu ways
Christians will defend Christain ways
Mongolians will defend Mongolian ways
Djiboutis will defend Djibouti ways
Finnish will defend Finland ways,

etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum.


I'm trying to give the impression of a clear, calm, rational tone:

You're not helping people like me.

If you're going to criticize someone, do so as an individual. Don't categorize entire groups, and don't do it in the name of a cause you believe in. Trust me, when it comes to any debate, you won't only hurt your own argument, you'll hurt others who may have legitimate points, and you'll only make it last longer.
 
2013-09-18 08:24:16 PM  

Quinsisdos: Boojum2k: How many did you go through before finding the clean guy? Or did you just get lucky?

First time was the charm. Then again, I live in a sensible country.


I've lived in the UK, sensible is not the word I would use to describe it, even in comparison to the U.S.
Maybe compared to Russia.
 
2013-09-18 08:25:11 PM  
Man, I need more popcorn for this thread.
 
2013-09-18 08:26:04 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Man, I need more popcorn for this thread.


Made beef stir fry through the whole thing. Sliced the red pepper only to find mold on the inside. Just onions for the vegetable.
 
2013-09-18 08:26:11 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Man, I need more popcorn for this thread.


Did you get the kind with cheese on it?
 
2013-09-18 08:27:07 PM  
Meh. If the foreskin is harmfull, we should let nature take its course until we evolve to no longer have them.
 
2013-09-18 08:27:16 PM  

MaestroJ: RedPhoenix122: Man, I need more popcorn for this thread.

Made beef stir fry through the whole thing. Sliced the red pepper only to find mold on the inside. Just onions for the vegetable.


Still sounds good.
 
2013-09-18 08:28:18 PM  

Boojum2k: RedPhoenix122: Man, I need more popcorn for this thread.

Did you get the kind with cheese on it?


Nah, I save that for the politics tab.

/to go with the whine

img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-09-18 08:28:26 PM  

MaestroJ: Made beef stir fry through the whole thing. Sliced the red pepper only to find mold on the inside. Just onions for the vegetable.


Meh. I had a peanut butter sandwich. Was a bit nutty with a little bit of jelly along the edges.

Boojum2k: Did you get the kind with cheese on it?


Yellow Liquid. AND, as an added bonus, it's non-dairy.
 
2013-09-18 08:29:10 PM  

MaestroJ: RedPhoenix122: Man, I need more popcorn for this thread.

Made beef stir fry through the whole thing. Sliced the red pepper only to find mold on the inside. Just onions for the vegetable.


Ahhhhh, veggie smeg.
 
2013-09-18 08:29:55 PM  

FunkOut: radarlove: All I need to know is that uncut cocks look disgusting and I would never stick one in my mouth.  Up my ass MAYBE, but only if I didn't see it beforehand.

Cut cocks, on the other hand, are sexy as hell.

Men's genitals are no good unless they have been surgically modified? Humans genetics says they're supposed to look a certain way.


human genes do a lot of things that we don't care for or are no longer biologically relevant.    At this point foreskin is vestigial.   You can take it or leave it, up to your style preferences.
 
2013-09-18 08:33:05 PM  

dbaggins: human genes do a lot of things that we don't care for or are no longer biologically relevant.    At this point foreskin is vestigial.   You can take it or leave it, up to your style preferences.


There are noted sexual functions to the foreskin. It is indeed not required to have sex, but it does have use. The problem with "leave it," is that it can't really come back, and the negative effects are for life. The possible problems with "take it" are not observed to cause any problems worldwide, and they're easily preventable.
 
2013-09-18 08:34:32 PM  

Jill'sNipple: The double standard on this is pretty crazy. Some extremely well-educated female friends feel completely comfortable advocating for circumcision based entirely on aesthetics. These same friends would be horrified if some guy said he wouldn't sleep with them unless they had a little nip-and-tuck on their own undercarriage for the same reason. I think either way is insane.

/circumcised
//not that that is relevant


Except that FGM isn't a "little nip-and-tuck on their own undercarriage."

First world people comparisons to third world problems.  There is no comparison between male circumcision and FGM, at all.  None.  Stop even thinking there is.

That being said, why the hell can't we just leave our kid's genitals alone?  As long as they can eliminate waste and there's no immediate health issues, let it be until the kid is 18 and makes their own decisions.
 
2013-09-18 08:36:28 PM  
We don't circumcise. We just do a scrotum tuck.

No one wants to see a wrinkly ball-sack.

Especially freshly shorn.
 
2013-09-18 08:41:39 PM  
Re: mutilation. Maybe that's a strong word - but - name one piece of a baby that parents can choose to have cut off, besides the foreskin, that wouldn't be termed mutilation. Ear lobes? Nipples? Anyone?

Am I entitled to tattoo a list of my child's allergies on them in the hope of averting a fatal allergic reaction?

I don't think a parent has the right to irrevocably change their child physically just because they're a parent.
 
2013-09-18 08:42:27 PM  

dbaggins: FunkOut: radarlove: All I need to know is that uncut cocks look disgusting and I would never stick one in my mouth.  Up my ass MAYBE, but only if I didn't see it beforehand.

Cut cocks, on the other hand, are sexy as hell.

Men's genitals are no good unless they have been surgically modified? Humans genetics says they're supposed to look a certain way.

human genes do a lot of things that we don't care for or are no longer biologically relevant.    At this point foreskin is vestigial.   You can take it or leave it, up to your style preferences.


You mean I could have had this tail REMOVED?!?!?!
 
2013-09-18 08:44:31 PM  
I just thought of something.  Is the headline supposed to be a play on, "T'was beauty killed the beast," spoken so famously by our hero, Jack Black in King Kong?
 
2013-09-18 08:49:14 PM  

gnosis301: I just thought of something.  Is the headline supposed to be a play on, "T'was beauty killed the beast," spoken so famously by our hero, Jack Black in King Kong?


I think the internet wouldn't know what to do if Jack Black read this headline. Remember when Rick Astley himself Rick Rolled the USA in the Thanksgiving Day Parade? Rick Rolling went to a standstill.
 
2013-09-18 08:52:27 PM  

MaestroJ: I think the internet wouldn't know what to do if Jack Black read this headline. Remember when Rick Astley himself Rick Rolled the USA in the Thanksgiving Day Parade? Rick Rolling went to a standstill.


You know what I was just thinking?  It's a shame Brutal Legend sucked after the metal spider fight.  That game could've been more awesome than it was.  I wanna play Psychonauts.
 
2013-09-18 08:53:28 PM  

EmmaLou: Jill'sNipple: The double standard on this is pretty crazy. Some extremely well-educated female friends feel completely comfortable advocating for circumcision based entirely on aesthetics. These same friends would be horrified if some guy said he wouldn't sleep with them unless they had a little nip-and-tuck on their own undercarriage for the same reason. I think either way is insane.

/circumcised
//not that that is relevant

Except that FGM isn't a "little nip-and-tuck on their own undercarriage."

First world people comparisons to third world problems.  There is no comparison between male circumcision and FGM, at all.  None.  Stop even thinking there is.

That being said, why the hell can't we just leave our kid's genitals alone?  As long as they can eliminate waste and there's no immediate health issues, let it be until the kid is 18 and makes their own decisions.


No, I don't think we're disagreeing here - I should have clarified. I was actually roughly equating cosmetic vaginoplasty with male circumcision - if the decisions were made by the adults themselves. However an adult wants to alter his or her genitals, fine, whatever. But I was talking about societal pressures connected with whittling on our genitalia, and the disparity in attitudes toward it.

They shouldn't cut on children, period.
 
2013-09-18 08:57:54 PM  

hardinparamedic: Also, how would I have any control over whether I was circumcised or not?


It is possible to be circumcised as an adult. Uncut converts to Judaism and Islam do it, or guys who have something wrong with the foreskin, or people who just like the look.

I don't feel bitter about my parents having my foreskin removed, it never stopped me from experiencing pleasure (and the Jewish chicks preferred it). Apparently in Baltimore in the early '60s it was routinely done. But it might have been more ethical to wait till I was older to decide for myself.

My father wasn't circumcised; it wasn't routine where he was born, I don't think he was born in a city. He said the doctor said it was a routine procedure and he said "Okay." His subservience to Authority Figures usually bugged me, except in this case: I never knew the difference and like I said it never stopped me from enjoying my penis.

I do prefer the circumcised look, but I don't think I would have decided to get it done until after I'd had my wisdom teeth slowly removed with pliers, a chisel and a butter knife (or so it felt).
 
2013-09-18 09:01:38 PM  

dbaggins: FunkOut: radarlove: All I need to know is that uncut cocks look disgusting and I would never stick one in my mouth.  Up my ass MAYBE, but only if I didn't see it beforehand.

Cut cocks, on the other hand, are sexy as hell.

Men's genitals are no good unless they have been surgically modified? Humans genetics says they're supposed to look a certain way.

human genes do a lot of things that we don't care for or are no longer biologically relevant.    At this point foreskin is vestigial.   You can take it or leave it, up to your style preferences.


With only about a hundred dead babies per year, in the U.S., from botched circumcision.

A small price to pay for style, I'm sure...
 
2013-09-18 09:04:47 PM  

weltallica: [m.memegen.com image 491x512]


le sorry for le meme, but it remains le true.


Le "Popular Opinion Bear" strikes again.
 
2013-09-18 09:12:44 PM  

PunGent: dbaggins: FunkOut: radarlove: All I need to know is that uncut cocks look disgusting and I would never stick one in my mouth.  Up my ass MAYBE, but only if I didn't see it beforehand.

Cut cocks, on the other hand, are sexy as hell.

Men's genitals are no good unless they have been surgically modified? Humans genetics says they're supposed to look a certain way.

human genes do a lot of things that we don't care for or are no longer biologically relevant.    At this point foreskin is vestigial.   You can take it or leave it, up to your style preferences.

With only about a hundred dead babies per year, in the U.S., from botched circumcision.

A small price to pay for style, I'm sure...



I'm curious about your source. A quick Google only turns up biased websites (the "Intaction" movement) and a mommy blog full of conjecture and "we think/can assume"
 
2013-09-18 09:17:03 PM  

eggrolls: 1) If you haven't got the testicular fortitude to make tough decisions for your kid, you probably shouldn't reproduce in the first place.

2) If my circumcised wang was any more effective at providing sexual pleasure, my first orgasm probably would have killed me.


THIS
 
2013-09-18 09:17:48 PM  

maelstrom0370: PunGent: dbaggins: FunkOut: radarlove: All I need to know is that uncut cocks look disgusting and I would never stick one in my mouth.  Up my ass MAYBE, but only if I didn't see it beforehand.

Cut cocks, on the other hand, are sexy as hell.

Men's genitals are no good unless they have been surgically modified? Humans genetics says they're supposed to look a certain way.

human genes do a lot of things that we don't care for or are no longer biologically relevant.    At this point foreskin is vestigial.   You can take it or leave it, up to your style preferences.

With only about a hundred dead babies per year, in the U.S., from botched circumcision.

A small price to pay for style, I'm sure...


I'm curious about your source. A quick Google only turns up biased websites (the "Intaction" movement) and a mommy blog full of conjecture and "we think/can assume"


There are a lot of conjecture websites. I don't know if I am considered reliable but I would be considered one of the few "unlucky" ones to put it lightly. But, when it comes to possible harm to human beings, I don't like being considered a number.

Unlike a lot of "intactivists," I have no desire to put some kind of federal law in place to ban circumcision, but instead I promote education of what it's like to live the sexual life I've got. I feel that's far more educational and productive than a lot of the conjectures and wildly confusing comparisons a lot of people are making.
 
2013-09-18 09:30:21 PM  
For the folks mentioning Africa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlsUg0sdAtE

the South Africa study by the numbers:
http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA.html

For those of you still arguing that MGM is a non issue because FGM exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98f3IavuEgQ

For those of you saying the prepuce has no purpose, doesn't matter, or "funnels disease into your peehole" like one moron posted, watch this (medical-grade nsfw material) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_dzeDvx2QA


And before any of this information should come the staple pro-choice mantra: my body, my decision.
 
2013-09-18 09:31:21 PM  

Moonlightfox: For the folks mentioning Africa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlsUg0sdAtE

the South Africa study by the numbers:
http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA.html

For those of you still arguing that MGM is a non issue because FGM exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98f3IavuEgQ

For those of you saying the prepuce has no purpose, doesn't matter, or "funnels disease into your peehole" like one moron posted, watch this (medical-grade nsfw material) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_dzeDvx2QA


And before any of this information should come the staple pro-choice mantra: my body, my decision.


Doesn't circumcision give people a false sense of protection and encourages to forego condoms?
 
2013-09-18 09:31:31 PM  
Two eight year old boys were in the hospital sharing a room.
First boy: What are you here for?
Second boy: Getting my tonsils out.
First boy: Oh, that's not so bad, I had that done...all the ice cream and hello you can eat!
Second boy: What are you here for?
First boy: Circumcision
Second boy: Holy shiat!!! I had that done when I was first born...couldn't walk for a year!!
 
2013-09-18 09:31:52 PM  
Summary of events in a Fark circumcision thread:

The normal uncircumcised male - "Well, I'm glad I'm not cut"
The normal circumcised male     - "Well, I'm glad I'm cut"
A normal woman                         - "I have a preference for this style, because I've been with guys that have it"

The circumcised with a sexual dysfunction - "It's because they mutilated my penis!"
A woman that's dated a guy with a sexual dysfunction - "It's because they mutilated his penis!"

The racist crazy - "it's a Jewish conspiracy, I don't want to be like those dirty <insert racial slur here>"
The pure crazy - "It's the same as cutting off his whole penis! just like with a women in Africa! How could you do this to a child with no choice! Here's some crazy websites, sign up for my 9/11 truth meeting while you're visiting."

The troll  - "I went on the pure crazy website and I'm going to use those stats as a basis for argument, also how could you to this to your kids!"
 
2013-09-18 09:42:22 PM  

super_grass: Doesn't circumcision give people a false sense of protection and encourages to forego condoms?


No, that's religion.
 
2013-09-18 09:42:33 PM  
I am not going into my thoughts on circumcision itself.

The point of the article is how the Internet gets flooded with false facts, exuberantly exaggerated stories, made up statistics, and fake counter-studies in order to add to the confusion. The Internet has made it so murky to find the truth and get legitimate questions to answers that it keeps fueling the debate.

Personally, I think the study needs to be done with more factors being considered to clarify once and for all whether it's really needed or not. I see both sides, and even have questions myself. It doesn't matter for me though as I had no choice as most men in the US, and I can't have kids of my own so it's not a decision I will ever have to make.
 
2013-09-18 09:54:32 PM  

Moonlightfox: "funnels disease into your peehole" like one moron posted


Aww, look, someone's mad. Normally I would just say my work here is done and move along, but I feel like I should point out that I was responding to that idiotic statement that circumcision is the equivalent of cutting off a baby's ears so they wouldn't have to wash behind them. I was f*cking with you intactivists while pointing out the stupidity of alt boy's claim.

I got a couple bites from it, so meh, it was semi successful. In the future, please feel free to get upset with anything I say. Your tears are delicious.
 
2013-09-18 09:56:00 PM  
Pretty simple, really.
They're white males doing it, so Slate and the ilk are going to be against it.
 
2013-09-18 10:10:04 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Circumcision is like cutting off a baby's ears so that it won't have to deal with the hassle of washing behind them later in life.


Personally I think any guy who calls circumcision "genital mutilation" or equates it to female genital mutilation ought to have their penis cut off of, as a way of helping them understand the difference.
 
2013-09-18 10:10:39 PM  

Moonlightfox: For those of you still arguing that MGM is a non issue because FGM exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98f3IavuEgQ


No one in this post claimed "Male Genital Mutilation" isn't a thing. Or that it never happens in certain cultures. (Orthodox Judaism, for example)

What they did point out that NEITHER Male Genital Mutilation NOR Female Genital Mutilation is comparable to medical circumcision performed by a licensed physician in a medical facility in either motive or procedure.

pedobearapproved: Summary of events in a Fark circumcision thread:

The normal uncircumcised male - "Well, I'm glad I'm not cut"
The normal circumcised male     - "Well, I'm glad I'm cut"
A normal woman                         - "I have a preference for this style, because I've been with guys that have it"

The circumcised with a sexual dysfunction - "It's because they mutilated my penis!"
A woman that's dated a guy with a sexual dysfunction - "It's because they mutilated his penis!"

The racist crazy - "it's a Jewish conspiracy, I don't want to be like those dirty <insert racial slur here>"
The pure crazy - "It's the same as cutting off his whole penis! just like with a women in Africa! How could you do this to a child with no choice! Here's some crazy websites, sign up for my 9/11 truth meeting while you're visiting."

The troll  - "I went on the pure crazy website and I'm going to use those stats as a basis for argument, also how could you to this to your kids!"


images.wikia.com
 
2013-09-18 10:14:27 PM  

ciberido: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Circumcision is like cutting off a baby's ears so that it won't have to deal with the hassle of washing behind them later in life.

Personally I think any guy who calls circumcision "genital mutilation" or equates it to female genital mutilation ought to have their penis cut off of, as a way of helping them understand the difference.


That's an interesting philosophy. I hope you find someone in this thread who has done so.
 
2013-09-18 10:19:55 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: That's an interesting philosophy. I hope you find someone in this thread who has done so.


Is misread the earlier post's "or" for an "and," so I suppose I did call circumcision genital mutilation, but in no way equated it to female genital mutilation.
 
2013-09-18 10:31:01 PM  

hardinparamedic: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Do you disagree that genitals are involved or that circumcision "is an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function" of the penis?

Is circumcision performed without the consent of the responsible parties, and done so against the will of the other person with the express intent of removing their ability to sexually perform and ensuring the person remains a virgin because sex before marriage quite possibly would kill that girl from infection and trauma?

I love first world arrogance and exceptionalism on this topic. "MY CIRCUMCISION AT BIRTH, WHICH I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER AND WAS DONE UNDER SEDATION BY A TRAINED SURGEON, UROLOGIST, OR PEDIATRICIAN IS  EXACTLY THE SAME  AS A PREPUBESCENT GIRL BEING HELD DOWN BY THE MEN IN HER FAMILY AND HAVING HER LABIA SLICED OFF, HER CLIT SCRAPED OUT, AND HER GENTIALS FUSED SHUT EXCEPT FOR A HOLE FOR HER TO URINATE AND MENSTRATE THROUGH, AND ON HER WEDDING NIGHT HAVING HER HUSBAND USE A POCKET KNIFE TO CUT HER SCAR OPEN SO HE CAN fark HER."

So yes. People who compare FGM with circumcision done by a medical provider are disingenious at best, and a prime example of first world privilege at worse.


technically, I think it's usually the women that do it to the girls, whatever difference that makes.

And you've irritated me in other threads, but you are beacon of sanity amongst lunatics here. Keep fighting the good fight for science vs woo.
 
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