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(Chicago Trib)   SEC votes to force corporations to disclose the ratio between CEO compensation and the median pay of employees and whooo, Nellie, had you better believe that corporations have a problem with this   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 224
    More: Spiffy, Securities and Exchange Commission, executive directors, executive compensation, Institute for Policy Studies, ratios  
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9206 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2013 at 4:14 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-18 03:58:58 PM
I have absolutely no idea why corporations would have a problem of full disclosure to its workers how much they are getting SCREWED!
 
2013-09-18 04:08:24 PM
"But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


s22.postimg.org
 
2013-09-18 04:09:52 PM
I thought everyone knew the players got nothing and the coaches made millions.  Oops wrong SEC.
 
2013-09-18 04:16:14 PM
Before this vote:

24.media.tumblr.com

After this vote:

www.zunshine.com
 
2013-09-18 04:16:38 PM

UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[s22.postimg.org image 270x214]


I'm sure they'll spend lots of money to make sure the data don't get disclosed.
 
2013-09-18 04:17:02 PM

UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[s22.postimg.org image 270x214]


I think I know how I can get rich!  I can offer my services to these corporations to set up a simple Excel spreadsheet that does the calculations for them.  I'll perform this for ... $25,000.
 
2013-09-18 04:17:05 PM
31.media.tumblr.com

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-18 04:17:25 PM

UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]


Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.
 
2013-09-18 04:18:03 PM
This is where the "invisible hand" of the market place fails. Because for the "invisible hand" to work the public must be able to make an informed decision on what they want to purchase however the same people who believe we should have less regulation and use the "invisible hand" also are against laws that would give people the information to make an informed decision.

You can't honestly say people can make informed decisions, and then on the other hand believe that they should get no information to make those decisions with.
 
2013-09-18 04:18:17 PM
"This rule is really, really important to investors because it will shine a light on the pay ladder within a company," said Vineeta Anand

Ladder? I think by the time you get to the CEO you're at less of a ladder and more of a... I don't know, what do you call two 7,000 foot long vertical planks?
 
2013-09-18 04:18:37 PM
I'm not anti corporation, but I have no problem with this requirement. They know damn well how much each employee makes, the whole process could be automated. It's just organizing data every company already has and anyone can figure out a close approximation through what is publicly available.
 
2013-09-18 04:18:44 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-18 04:19:48 PM
Suggested listening: The Scientists' "I Cried No Tears"
 
2013-09-18 04:20:28 PM
do it, DO IT!
 
2013-09-18 04:20:30 PM
The SEC...showing signs of growing a pair? Is it Armageddon yet?
 
2013-09-18 04:21:09 PM
You peons just can't handle learning that the CEO is working *exactly* 7,891 times harder than you while he's on the corporate G5 heading to his golf retreat in Maui!
 
2013-09-18 04:21:10 PM
Good. They can pay their C-level people as much as they like, but they'll have to publish the numbers to show how badly the grunts are getting screwed. A little public shaming might go a long way.

I'm surprised we haven't seen our favorite corporate water-carrier in here. I like to call him "Porto Aquam Pecuniorum".
 
2013-09-18 04:21:20 PM
We're all aware we're all getting f*cked in the ass.  We just want a nice chart that lets us know how hard.
 
2013-09-18 04:21:36 PM
Ok farkers: please submit your suggested names for this new economic ratio of CEO to AWJ (average working Joe) pay.

Something tells me this thread count will grow exponentially.
 
2013-09-18 04:21:47 PM

UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


Yeah that's the worst argument to make. I work at a company of 300k people and I guarantee you we could spit those numbers out in about a half hour.
 
2013-09-18 04:22:12 PM

Treygreen13: "This rule is really, really important to investors because it will shine a light on the pay ladder within a company," said Vineeta Anand

Ladder? I think by the time you get to the CEO you're at less of a ladder and more of a... I don't know, what do you call two 7,000 foot long vertical planks?


The ladder resembles the learning curve of dwarf fortess...

images2.wikia.nocookie.net


So basically, it helps if you start on top.
 
2013-09-18 04:22:17 PM

robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.


This. Somebody could probably come up with that number in a day, including time to write a script to run the query. And that's only because a lot of DBMS don't have a median function built in.
 
2013-09-18 04:23:29 PM
In other news today, the eventual Republican candidate for President received commitment from various business groups for "however much farking money it takes to win"
 
2013-09-18 04:23:35 PM

UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


This is what happens when you vomit commas.
 
2013-09-18 04:23:40 PM
You'd think that companies might be happy to publish those figures, after all, it just shows how rich those people down below can hope to be in the future. A rising tide lifts all boats, right? The US is a nation of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, right? Hard work and dedication will move you up to those loft heights in no time, right?
 
2013-09-18 04:24:05 PM

robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.


I'd be willing to bet that there are some "compensation" methods that are hard to calculate...but yeah, this.
 
2013-09-18 04:24:12 PM
Doing this would cost too much? I don't know much about corporate financial management, but I figure they know how much they pay their own employees.
 
2013-09-18 04:25:00 PM
Hell, after three weeks they're 27-11 as a conference. Sure the the defenses are shaky, but what the hell does the SEC care about this?
 
2013-09-18 04:25:05 PM

robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.


That's what I was thinking. Any halfway decent HR database person should be able to query this stuff and crack it out in an afternoon.
 
2013-09-18 04:25:18 PM
...the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives...

Ahh, so one of Satan's embassies here on the Mortal Plane.
 
2013-09-18 04:25:32 PM

Cybernetic: robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.

This. Somebody could probably come up with that number in a day, including time to write a script to run the query. And that's only because a lot of DBMS don't have a median function built in.


I'd be surprised if Oracle Financials doesn't have this built in or that ADP can't provide this on request.
 
2013-09-18 04:25:44 PM

James10952001: I'm not anti corporation, but I have no problem with this requirement. They know damn well how much each employee makes, the whole process could be automated. It's just organizing data every company already has and anyone can figure out a close approximation through what is publicly available.


I think where they're going with the "too costly" is taking the data from various databases - probably one for each country - converting it all to dollars (and what date do you use, or do you have to do a floating calculation where each pay-period is converted by that weeks exchange rate), and then averaging it out.


Don't get me wrong; I still don't think that this is all that complex.  I think they really want to avoid non-US nations for all the third world employees that are paid an absolutely crap wage (compared to the US - it may be good where they are), which would drag down the median pay value.
 
2013-09-18 04:25:51 PM

Cybernetic: robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.

This. Somebody could probably come up with that number in a day, including time to write a script to run the query. And that's only because a lot of DBMS don't have a median function built in.


So export the results to a spreadsheet, sort them by salary, and take the row in the dead center.

/Yeah, I'm lazy, how did you know?
 
2013-09-18 04:26:15 PM

Cybernetic: robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.

This. Somebody could probably come up with that number in a day, including time to write a script to run the query. And that's only because a lot of DBMS don't have a median function built in.


You farking bet it's BS!  That excuse isn't even trying!  I've heard better excuses from 5-year-olds.
 
2013-09-18 04:26:58 PM
They have urged the SEC to scale it back, possibly by allowing companies with global offices to compile the median annual pay of average workers using compensation data from only their U.S.-based employees.

Don't want to average in the $0.35/hour you pay those guys in Malaysia, do ya?
 
2013-09-18 04:28:11 PM

theorellior: You'd think that companies might be happy to publish those figures, after all, it just shows how rich those people down below can hope to be in the future. A rising tide lifts all boats, right? The US is a nation of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, right? Hard work and dedication will move you up to those loft heights in no time, right?


Right, this is exactly why I listen to conservative radio so I can make sure I align my opinions with just exactly how rich I will be in the future.
 
2013-09-18 04:28:17 PM

robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.


I'm guessing it is as simple as...


select first_name, last_name, a.gross_comp
from emp_paycheck a inner join emp_curr b on a.emp_id = b.emp_id
and a.pay_date > to_date('09/01/2013','mm/dd/yyyy')
 
2013-09-18 04:28:30 PM
"Republican Commissioners Michael Piwowar and Daniel Gallagher criticizing the measure as a special interest provision that would not help investors."

Either they're wrong, or Warren Buffet is wrong.

I'm going with them being wrong, and not just because they're Republicans.
 
2013-09-18 04:28:59 PM

itsaidwhat: Ok farkers: please submit your suggested names for this new economic ratio of CEO to AWJ (average working Joe) pay.

Something tells me this thread count will grow exponentially.


I submit "The Gilded Ratio" because I was told there would be no math.
 
2013-09-18 04:29:25 PM
I expect a wave of butthurt from the right before the data is released and a wave of butthurt from the left afterwards.
 
2013-09-18 04:29:26 PM

The Third Man: Cybernetic: robbiex0r: UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "


[yaolaugh.img image 270x214]

Too costly? I'm going to call BS. That data is easily available and usually in one single DB.

This. Somebody could probably come up with that number in a day, including time to write a script to run the query. And that's only because a lot of DBMS don't have a median function built in.

So export the results to a spreadsheet, sort them by salary, and take the row in the dead center.

/Yeah, I'm lazy, how did you know?


Just make sure you're using something after Excel 2003 as it had a 65,000ish row limit.
 
2013-09-18 04:30:01 PM
What is it I've seen the past few days?  95% of the earnings gains over the last five years have gone to the top 2%?

/Too lazy to google
 
2013-09-18 04:30:13 PM

mithras_angel: James10952001: I'm not anti corporation, but I have no problem with this requirement. They know damn well how much each employee makes, the whole process could be automated. It's just organizing data every company already has and anyone can figure out a close approximation through what is publicly available.

I think where they're going with the "too costly" is taking the data from various databases - probably one for each country - converting it all to dollars (and what date do you use, or do you have to do a floating calculation where each pay-period is converted by that weeks exchange rate), and then averaging it out.


Don't get me wrong; I still don't think that this is all that complex.  I think they really want to avoid non-US nations for all the third world employees that are paid an absolutely crap wage (compared to the US - it may be good where they are), which would drag down the median pay value.


If they are global company and don't have this data already compiled into some common currency amount, they should not be in business. Besides, the people that are getting dollars per day don't actually work for these global companies.  They are just sub-contractors or suppliers, so it should not be on their books in the first place.
 
WGJ
2013-09-18 04:30:16 PM

Tom_Slick: I thought everyone knew the players got nothing and the coaches made millions.  Oops wrong SEC.


You still have the wrong SEC if you think the players get nothing.
 
2013-09-18 04:30:18 PM
You bunch of commies. CEOs work hard for every cent they get. They're the real heroes. I mean, it's not like any one of them could be replaced by a nearly identical white guy in a suit.
 
2013-09-18 04:30:22 PM
You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
 
2013-09-18 04:31:04 PM
>the Center on Executive Compensation

Why am I not shocked that that is a real entity?

>have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors.

You mean the same organization that designed performance metrics for executive compensation now feels using a straight-up calculation on executive salary (including compensation) is too complicated?

From the link:

>Although relative TSR is favored by investors as the best indicator of alignment of executive compensation with shareholder interests, it may not make sense for a company to utilize TSR as its sole or even primary incentive plan metric because executives often do not have the same line of sight between their decisions and shareholder value in the near term.

Kind of like teachers being held responsible for how well their kids perform on tests? I'm sure the same organization and their executives would say that's a COMPLETELY different thing.
 
2013-09-18 04:31:20 PM

PunGent: "Republican Commissioners Michael Piwowar and Daniel Gallagher criticizing the measure as a special interest provision that would not help investors."

Either they're wrong, or Warren Buffet is wrong.

I'm going with them being wrong, and not just because they're Republicans.


Although there is a strikingly strong correlation these days.
 
2013-09-18 04:31:52 PM
There are a lot of variables here, but just because a corporation does well does not mean that everyone in the organization has to prosper equally - or some cases at all. Our sales staff makes a hell of a lot more than an overhead position. Sales will almost always make more than a salaried position if the person is a producer. That isn't unfair that there is a huge disparity in pay, even if the salaried positions are working their asses off and feel that they are contributing to the "actual" work more-so than the sales person themselves. The fact of the matter is that the salaried position would not even have a job if the sales person did not create business. Management, to most people is a bad word. It does not necessarily mean that. There are plenty of management roles that require a hell of a lot of of work, even if that work isn't very visible. Hopefully, the person in the management role has actual job experience and at one point in time was on the "grunt" side of things. Where I have an issue with is someone in a management role who has only had experience managing. The old adage, those that cannot sell manage is true for these people.
 
2013-09-18 04:32:24 PM

UberDave: "But companies and business organizations such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, as well as, the Center on Executive Compensation, which represents human resources executives, have vehemently opposed the measure, saying it is too costly to compile the data and will not be useful for investors. "



There is really a such thing as the 'center for executive compensation?'
seriously?  What do they do?  Say 'shiat dog, you got that bonus, this year, awesome' and then flood the media with a hoard of propaganda about how good for America that is?
 
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