If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Science Daily)   Environmentally friendly cement made with waste ash is not just cleaner and cheaper, but stronger. This is a repeat from Ancient times when the Romans made their best cement with volcanic ash   (sciencedaily.com) divider line 42
    More: Hero, Niels Bohr, environmentally friendly, volcanic ash, fly ashes, cement mixed, waste ash, scientific reports, chemical processes  
•       •       •

2837 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Sep 2013 at 2:46 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



42 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-09-18 11:25:02 AM
Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.
 
2013-09-18 11:36:45 AM
No, no, no subby. Romans made the best statues when covered in ash
 
2013-09-18 11:44:38 AM
cdn.sciencefocus.com

I see what you did there.
 
2013-09-18 11:46:16 AM

Voiceofreason01: Hence the term "cinder block"


Goddamn I did not know that...themoreIknow.jpg
 
2013-09-18 01:17:28 PM

Voiceofreason01: Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.


Yeah, but fly ash typically means coal ash.

I'm still wondering though, how is cement production rendered even remotely environmentally friendly with this?

I know it says that you don't need to heat it up as much if they use this, but why don't they need to?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-18 01:27:57 PM

meat0918: Voiceofreason01: Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.

Yeah, but fly ash typically means coal ash.

I'm still wondering though, how is cement production rendered even remotely environmentally friendly with this?


It get's rid of the ash?
 
2013-09-18 02:02:12 PM
Didn't they just recently, like this year, finally re-discover the method for Roman cement?
 
2013-09-18 02:08:23 PM

Relatively Obscure: [cdn.sciencefocus.com image 490x319]

I see what you did there.


Uggh, gross. Knees are too ashy.
 
2013-09-18 02:31:20 PM

Cagey B: Didn't they just recently, like this year, finally re-discover the method for Roman cement?


No. That news came out a long time ago.
 
2013-09-18 02:41:09 PM

meat0918: I know it says that you don't need to heat it up as much if they use this, but why don't they need to?


I dunno the specifics, but cement making is a chemical process. I'm assuming it just reacts easier.
 
2013-09-18 03:00:29 PM

Cagey B: Didn't they just recently, like this year, finally re-discover the method for Roman cement?


Aye. Although I dunno if "discover" is correct. I think they confirmed that a particular combination of the usual ingredients allows for slower drying and makes it stronger... Which is fine, except we can't wait that long. :\
 
2013-09-18 03:15:59 PM
Requires a boomstick.
 
2013-09-18 03:19:28 PM
Made of Ash

images3.wikia.nocookie.net

Toughest concrete ever.
 
2013-09-18 03:21:01 PM
Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.
 
2013-09-18 03:25:01 PM

error 303: Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.


How many bananas is it equal to?
 
2013-09-18 03:33:01 PM

Voiceofreason01: Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.


Fortunately, the EPA is making it a hazardous waste material, and requiring it to be taken to special landfills instead of getting the benefits from it.  Our saviors.
 
2013-09-18 03:36:36 PM
Is this the new Syncrete?
 
2013-09-18 03:38:16 PM

Kiler: error 303: Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.

How many bananas is it equal to?


Eh. Radioactivity in fly ash/bottom ash is typically concentrated to 3x - 10x above normal. If you figure normal exposure to coal material would result in 200 uSv a year, we're talking about an increase up to maybe 600 usV to 2 mSv. 1 banana ~ 0.1 uSv, so maybe 6,000 to 20,000 bananas?
 
2013-09-18 03:40:49 PM

Voiceofreason01: Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.


Mind.  Blown.  I learned today!
 
2013-09-18 03:43:03 PM

lordargent: Made of Ash

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 425x620]

Toughest concrete ever.


That's some good ash.
 
2013-09-18 03:54:57 PM

The Muthaship: Voiceofreason01: Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.

Fortunately, the EPA is making it a hazardous waste material, and requiring it to be taken to special landfills instead of getting the benefits from it.  Our saviors.


Fly ash from coal contains a lot of heavy metals.  Mixing it into concrete is a good disposal method, but it does raise the radioactivity of the resultant product.
 
2013-09-18 03:57:25 PM

error 303: Kiler: error 303: Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.

How many bananas is it equal to?

Eh. Radioactivity in fly ash/bottom ash is typically concentrated to 3x - 10x above normal. If you figure normal exposure to coal material would result in 200 uSv a year, we're talking about an increase up to maybe 600 usV to 2 mSv. 1 banana ~ 0.1 uSv, so maybe 6,000 to 20,000 bananas?


So about 2-5 bananas a week, basically then?
 
2013-09-18 04:56:20 PM
I thought the environmentally friendly concrete was the stuff porous enough for rain water to seep through it, as opposed to running off.
 
2013-09-18 05:03:54 PM

error 303: Kiler: error 303: Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.

How many bananas is it equal to?

Eh. Radioactivity in fly ash/bottom ash is typically concentrated to 3x - 10x above normal. If you figure normal exposure to coal material would result in 200 uSv a year, we're talking about an increase up to maybe 600 usV to 2 mSv. 1 banana ~ 0.1 uSv, so maybe 6,000 to 20,000 bananas?


Straying off topic here but...

Recently I wanted to look up the radioactivity of some substances.  There was a flame war raging about depleted uranium, and I thought it would be nice if I could find some actual numbers on DU's radioactivity relative to other substances.  I figured it would be easy to google up a table of alpha, beta and gamma activity per mass for things like depleted uranium, natural uranium, plutonium, tritium, americium, etc.  I couldn't find shiat.

Anyone know where I could find this information?  Am I missing some reason for why this seems so hard to find?  Do I suck a googling?
 
2013-09-18 05:18:35 PM

Fish in a Barrel: error 303: Kiler: error 303: Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.

How many bananas is it equal to?

Eh. Radioactivity in fly ash/bottom ash is typically concentrated to 3x - 10x above normal. If you figure normal exposure to coal material would result in 200 uSv a year, we're talking about an increase up to maybe 600 usV to 2 mSv. 1 banana ~ 0.1 uSv, so maybe 6,000 to 20,000 bananas?

Straying off topic here but...

Recently I wanted to look up the radioactivity of some substances.  There was a flame war raging about depleted uranium, and I thought it would be nice if I could find some actual numbers on DU's radioactivity relative to other substances.  I figured it would be easy to google up a table of alpha, beta and gamma activity per mass for things like depleted uranium, natural uranium, plutonium, tritium, americium, etc.  I couldn't find shiat.

Anyone know where I could find this information?  Am I missing some reason for why this seems so hard to find?  Do I suck a googling?


Well, the specific activity of pure DU is about 40,000 pCi/g, which is pretty high relative to every day objects. Glossy magazine paper contains uranium at concentrations of about 0.4 pCi/g, so it's 100,000 times more radioactive than magazine paper, which maybe doesn't help much?

Merril Eisenbud has a good book called Environmental Radioactivity that's got a lot of good info in it, though by now it may be a bit dated. Hell, I've got a spreadsheet I use at work sometimes which will calculate activites from weight for you if youre really interested.
 
2013-09-18 05:23:39 PM
Good: The ash helps the cement retail moisture which helps it cure harder. Bad: The ash helps the cement retain moisture which is a problem for moisture sensitive flooring (vinyl, wood, etc)
 
2013-09-18 05:26:25 PM

error 303: Fish in a Barrel: error 303: Kiler: error 303: Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.

How many bananas is it equal to?

Eh. Radioactivity in fly ash/bottom ash is typically concentrated to 3x - 10x above normal. If you figure normal exposure to coal material would result in 200 uSv a year, we're talking about an increase up to maybe 600 usV to 2 mSv. 1 banana ~ 0.1 uSv, so maybe 6,000 to 20,000 bananas?

Straying off topic here but...

Recently I wanted to look up the radioactivity of some substances.  There was a flame war raging about depleted uranium, and I thought it would be nice if I could find some actual numbers on DU's radioactivity relative to other substances.  I figured it would be easy to google up a table of alpha, beta and gamma activity per mass for things like depleted uranium, natural uranium, plutonium, tritium, americium, etc.  I couldn't find shiat.

Anyone know where I could find this information?  Am I missing some reason for why this seems so hard to find?  Do I suck a googling?

Well, the specific activity of pure DU is about 40,000 pCi/g, which is pretty high relative to every day objects. Glossy magazine paper contains uranium at concentrations of about 0.4 pCi/g, so it's 100,000 times more radioactive than magazine paper, which maybe doesn't help much?


Edit - Oops, missed a 0, 400,000 pCi/g and 1,000,000 times more radioactive than magazine paper.
 
2013-09-18 05:27:21 PM

error 303: Hell, I've got a spreadsheet I use at work sometimes which will calculate activites from weight for you if youre really interested.


Yeah, actually.  EIP, if you don't mind.
 
2013-09-18 05:39:05 PM

MechaPyx: lordargent: Made of Ash

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 425x620]

Toughest concrete ever.

That's some good ash.


Good ash... Bad ash ... He's the one with the gun.
 
2013-09-18 05:56:55 PM

error 303: Just don't tell the environmentally friendly folk how radioactive coal ash/fly ash can be and we'll be good.


This article concerns ash left over from sugar production, which is probably the burnt sugar cane stalks, and maybe the piles of spent "beet ash" we called it whenever we drove by the Michigan Sugar plant in Sebewaing.

We know how environmentally friendly coal ash/fly ash isn't
 
2013-09-18 06:41:16 PM
Can we use cremains? I'd like to make some stepping stones for the garden with Great Aunt Ruby.
 
2013-09-18 06:51:08 PM
Pompeii Construction Company..We make fly buildings...
 
2013-09-18 07:02:12 PM
Did someone say ashy?
www.edwarddejesus.com
 
2013-09-18 07:06:38 PM

Fish in a Barrel: error 303: Hell, I've got a spreadsheet I use at work sometimes which will calculate activites from weight for you if youre really interested.

Yeah, actually.  EIP, if you don't mind.


BIE?
 
2013-09-18 08:10:36 PM
The scientist says he's been studying cement with quasi-elastic neutron scattering, to which I must call bullshiat, because I haven't the faintest idea what he's talking about. The sample is lowered into a cryostat? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
 
2013-09-18 08:18:15 PM
puteolanum
 
2013-09-18 10:30:15 PM

Shazam999: Fish in a Barrel: error 303: Hell, I've got a spreadsheet I use at work sometimes which will calculate activites from weight for you if youre really interested.

Yeah, actually.  EIP, if you don't mind.

BIE?


Well... if you've got 'em, sure.
 
2013-09-18 10:55:49 PM

scottydoesntknow: Relatively Obscure: [cdn.sciencefocus.com image 490x319]

I see what you did there.

Uggh, gross. Knees are too ashy.


i487.photobucket.com
/disapproves
 
2013-09-18 11:26:53 PM

The Muthaship: Voiceofreason01: Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.

Fortunately, the EPA is making it a hazardous waste material, and requiring it to be taken to special landfills instead of getting the benefits from it.  Our saviors.


90% of buildings erected in the SF Bay Area are made with aggregates taken from quarries rich in serpentine.  When these buildings are demolished in the next 50 years, how do we plan on dealing with the huge amounts of asbestos that could potentially be released into the environment?
 
2013-09-19 12:11:46 AM

SCUBA_Archer: The Muthaship: Voiceofreason01: Concrete has been made with fly ash since forever. Hence the term "cinder block" that most people use to describe concrete masonry units regardless of whether they're made with fly ash or not.

Fortunately, the EPA is making it a hazardous waste material, and requiring it to be taken to special landfills instead of getting the benefits from it.  Our saviors.

90% of buildings erected in the SF Bay Area are made with aggregates taken from quarries rich in serpentine.  When these buildings are demolished in the next 50 years, how do we plan on dealing with the huge amounts of asbestos that could potentially be released into the environment?


Get all the people affected to sign waivers
 
2013-09-19 12:31:07 AM

Cagey B: Didn't they just recently, like this year, finally re-discover the method for Roman cement?


I think it was during the Victorian Age.
 
2013-09-19 04:36:35 AM

meat0918: I'm still wondering though, how is cement production rendered even remotely environmentally friendly with this?

I know it says that you don't need to heat it up as much if they use this, but why don't they need to?


Chemistry.

Specifically, cement contains compounds that absorb water. When they do, the hydrated versions bind together causing the mass to solidify. In order for cement to be workable, you need to drive off all the water first... by heating. The ash is very low moisture and doesn't need to be heated as much to dry it completely.

Then there's CO2 production. If limestone is used (and it almost always is) the limestone (CaCO3) is crushed and baked to produce lime (CaO) and carbon dioxide (CO2). part of the long-time curing process of some cements is to re-absorb CO2 and basically turn back into limestone, but there's almost always a net CO2 release. The use of ash may offset that, which is nice.
=Smidge=
 
Displayed 42 of 42 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report