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(Forbes)   The mythical crime of "insider trading" should really be called "freedom trading"   (forbes.com) divider line 154
    More: Amusing, political freedom, Mises, trade, Spitzer  
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1747 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Sep 2013 at 1:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-18 03:02:58 PM

Aristocles: You're getting rather hysterical over this, no?


Unfortunately, I can't, I don't have one of those.
 
2013-09-18 03:03:30 PM

joeshill: Words evolve. Get used to it. Or get used to being regarded as a douche. Pick one.


Douche is the French word for "shower".  Anyone who uses it in any other way is a moron.

/this is a fun threadjack!
 
2013-09-18 03:03:45 PM
I just went to his blog.

He's hidden his blog posts behind a paywall. He wants $14 a month, or $145 a year, for the pleasure of reading his nonsense.
 
2013-09-18 03:03:54 PM
The inevitable result of unfettered Capitalism.
 
2013-09-18 03:06:01 PM
Time to set one of these up right on Wall Street
i280.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-18 03:06:43 PM

Gosling: I just went to his blog.

He's hidden his blog posts behind a paywall. He wants $14 a month, or $145 a year, for the pleasure of reading his nonsense.


And ya know, I bet there's people out there who'd be willing to pay it.
 
2013-09-18 03:08:33 PM

vpb: ikanreed: How is insisting on an antiquated usage in the face of obvious meaning in context not trolling?

It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

It means reduce by 1/10th.


Yeah, I had my 4 years of Latin, and ancient roman history class, thanks.  I don't need the patronizing explanation.   The usage literally comes from Ancient History.  It's safe to call it antiquated.
 
2013-09-18 03:28:43 PM
You've got to wonder if "Harry Binswanger" isn't some sort of troll.  He's almost a parody.  One of his other articles is titled, "Give Back? Yes, It's Time For The 99% To Give Back To The 1%".  A quote from it:

Anyone who earns a million dollars or more should be exempt from all income taxes. Yes, it's too little. And the real issue is not financial, but moral. So to augment the tax-exemption, in an annual public ceremony, the year's top earner should be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Imagine the effect on our culture, particularly on the young, if the kind of fame and adulation bathing Lady Gaga attached to the more notable achievements of say, Warren Buffett. Or if the moral praise showered on Mother Teresa went to someone like Lloyd Blankfein, who, in guiding Goldman Sachs toward billions in profits, has done infinitely more for mankind.
 
2013-09-18 03:30:22 PM

Gosling: I just went to his blog.

He's hidden his blog posts behind a paywall. He wants $14 a month, or $145 a year, for the pleasure of reading his nonsense.


And yet he seems to hold himself up as some kind of expert on the economy.
 
2013-09-18 03:31:13 PM
Forbes contributors get paid by the traffic. Don't click on the work of these clowns.
 
2013-09-18 03:32:11 PM

2chris2: You've got to wonder if "Harry Binswanger" isn't some sort of troll.


His name is an anagram for Brawny Rash Reign.
 
2013-09-18 03:33:27 PM
i.imgur.com

Regulation FD is a reasonable compromise to protect the interests of shareholders against corruptible fiduciaries. There is a fine line between due diligence, expert networks, and insider trading. Stay on the legal side of that line, and it's due diligence. Cross that line, in the ways that Galleon Group and SAC Capital were alleged to have done, and you turn a pyramid of ability into an aristocracy of pull. This isn't even taking into account the fact that employees have responsibilities towards their employers, and that director-level employees have fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders, etc. etc. etc. If we want to dig up scandals from a decade ago, Martha Stewart got railroaded over ImClone, but Waksal's actions were so far over the line against his own company's fiduciary interests that I can't see any rational justification for them.

In this essay, Binswanger argues that insider trading is a good thing because he appears to (a) uncritically accept the literal truth of everything Rand wrote, and because (b) Rand was on record as having written positively about it. In poorly attempting to rehash Rand's original essay on the topic, he inadvertently makes the case for an "aristocracy of pull" over the "pyramid of ability" that he lauded in the immediately-preceding essay. In light of this contradiction, I would humbly suggest that Mr. Binswanger check his premises: he will find that one of them is wrong.
 
2013-09-18 03:42:36 PM

vpb: It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.


must be why next month is December.
 
2013-09-18 03:48:04 PM

heap: vpb: It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

must be why next month is December.


Actually, December was originally the tenth month. October was the eighth and November was the ninth.
 
2013-09-18 03:50:31 PM

Aristocles: heap: vpb: It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

must be why next month is December.

Actually, December was originally the tenth month. October was the eighth and November was the ninth.


NOOOOOO, REEEAAAAAAAALLLLLLY????

you mean at some point, the word meant one thing, and now it means another? give me room, i've got the vapors. your startling insight was so needed, thank you!
 
2013-09-18 03:52:28 PM

Aristocles: heap: vpb: It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

must be why next month is December.

Actually, December was originally the tenth month. October was the eighth and November was the ninth.


Yeah, but September was the fourth.
 
2013-09-18 03:57:01 PM
The grabbing hands
Grab all they can
All for themselves
After all
It's a competitive world
Everything counts in large amounts. . .
 
2013-09-18 03:59:35 PM

sprawl15: Aristocles: heap: vpb: It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

must be why next month is December.

Actually, December was originally the tenth month. October was the eighth and November was the ninth.

Yeah, but September was the fourth.


Err, no it wasn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar
 
2013-09-18 04:01:18 PM

nmrsnr: This guy cannot be real, right? I mean you can't write this:

"Take a worst case scenario: a fire has just broken out in one of the firm's warehouses. Insiders start dumping their stock, selling it to hapless, ignorant outsiders who are about to see their newly bought stock plunge in price. But what is the cause of the stock's fall? The cause is not insider trading, but the fire."

And actually mean it. Because that's not even close to the worst case scenario. An obviously worse scenario is a bunch of CEOs shorting their own stock because they have direct control over whether their stock tanks, making a killing by destroying their own company, and walking away. The company is decimated not by accident, not by random act like fire, but because greedy people actively destroyed it for their own gain, putting hard working people out of work. And I'm pretty sure even that's not a worst case scenario, but I didn't want to spend more than a minute on this ridiculous human being.


He completely misunderstands criminal law.  I'm not a lawyer, but from what I remember about mens rea, someone who sold their stock but didn't know about the fire wouldn't be committing a crime; someone who sold their stock and did know about the fire would be committing a crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea
 
2013-09-18 04:11:50 PM

HighOnCraic: nmrsnr: This guy cannot be real, right? I mean you can't write this:

"Take a worst case scenario: a fire has just broken out in one of the firm's warehouses. Insiders start dumping their stock, selling it to hapless, ignorant outsiders who are about to see their newly bought stock plunge in price. But what is the cause of the stock's fall? The cause is not insider trading, but the fire."

And actually mean it. Because that's not even close to the worst case scenario. An obviously worse scenario is a bunch of CEOs shorting their own stock because they have direct control over whether their stock tanks, making a killing by destroying their own company, and walking away. The company is decimated not by accident, not by random act like fire, but because greedy people actively destroyed it for their own gain, putting hard working people out of work. And I'm pretty sure even that's not a worst case scenario, but I didn't want to spend more than a minute on this ridiculous human being.

He completely misunderstands criminal law.  I'm not a lawyer, but from what I remember about mens rea, someone who sold their stock but didn't know about the fire wouldn't be committing a crime; someone who sold their stock and did know about the fire would be committing a crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea


I can't say exactly for stock, but I do know that if you're a real estate broker closing a deal and you neglect to tell the buyer that the place burned down last night that you're going to be in a bit of a legal pickle.
 
2013-09-18 04:20:29 PM

Karac: I can't say exactly for stock, but I do know that if you're a real estate broker closing a deal and you neglect to tell the buyer that the place burned down last night that you're going to be in a bit of a legal pickle.


Hey man, buyer beware. You should have known to go look at the property before you bought it. The free market will take care of that broker anyway.
 
2013-09-18 04:24:30 PM
Binswanger is a horrible person. Can we all at least agree on that point?
 
2013-09-18 04:35:00 PM

White Lobster: Binswanger is a horrible person. Can we all at least agree on that point?


Well, no - the word horrible comes from horror, and I'm not scared of him.

/Are the words actually related? I'm too lazy to look up the etymology.
 
2013-09-18 04:36:02 PM

odinsposse: Karac: I can't say exactly for stock, but I do know that if you're a real estate broker closing a deal and you neglect to tell the buyer that the place burned down last night that you're going to be in a bit of a legal pickle.

Hey man, buyer beware. You should have known to go look at the property before you bought it. The free market will take care of that broker anyway.


That's why I said 'closing' and 'last night'.  As in, you've already looked at the property and agreed to buy it, but it went up the last night before money actually changed hands - but the agent was told about it but not you.
 
2013-09-18 04:44:27 PM
img202.imageshack.us
 
2013-09-18 04:47:43 PM

Aristocles: I'm not regarded as a douche


Sure you are.
 
2013-09-18 04:48:47 PM
Wow - that is a huge load of hogwash.

This is part of why I could never be a Libertarian.
 
2013-09-18 04:50:43 PM

Ricardo Klement: Wow - that is a huge load of hogwash.

This is part of why I could never be a Libertarian.


The author despises Libertarians, actually.
 
2013-09-18 05:01:11 PM

gnosis301: Ricardo Klement: Wow - that is a huge load of hogwash.

This is part of why I could never be a Libertarian.

The author despises Libertarians, actually.


I despise people who think there is a real difference between Objectivism and Libertarianism.

This sort of splitting hairs is about as creepy as to someone objecting to the word "pedophile" because there are more specific words for desire for specific age ranges and the person knows them all.
 
2013-09-18 05:11:53 PM
I agree with Forbes, the US needs to become a third world banana republic just like our forefathers wanted.

While we're at it, let's bring back royalty and slavery so the GOP can finally be happy.
 
2013-09-18 05:13:03 PM

heap: Aristocles: heap: vpb: It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

must be why next month is December.

Actually, December was originally the tenth month. October was the eighth and November was the ninth.

NOOOOOO, REEEAAAAAAAALLLLLLY????

you mean at some point, the word meant one thing, and now it means another? give me room, i've got the vapors. your startling insight was so needed, thank you!


Yes, really. You are quite welcome.
 
2013-09-18 05:15:24 PM
Next week from Harry Binswanger: Why it's okay for Major League Baseball managers to bet on games their team plays.
 
2013-09-18 05:18:43 PM

vpb: ikanreed: How is insisting on an antiquated usage in the face of obvious meaning in context not trolling?

It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

It means reduce by 1/10th.


"Literally" doesn't even mean literally anymore.

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/22/according_to_the_dictionary_literall y_ now_also_means_figuratively_newscred/
 
2013-09-18 05:25:19 PM

rosebud_the_sled: I agree with Forbes, the US needs to become a third world banana republic just like our forefathers wanted.

While we're at it, let's bring back royalty and slavery so the GOP can finally be happy.


2055: Why do these peasants look so slovenly? They should costume themselves in a manner more pleasing to my eye.
 
2013-09-18 05:25:39 PM
FTA: "The hostility toward insider trading is based not on any legal consideration but on a vicious perversion of morality: egalitarianism-the same twisted, envy-ridden idea of morality our President is now promulgating in speeches around the nation."

You mean that everyone involved in any business deal should have all the information available for that deal at the same time - a level playing field, if you will? Like how capitalism is supposed to work?

What is up with these Randian assholes today?
 
2013-09-18 05:40:59 PM

m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?


Well, I thought it was funny.
 
2013-09-18 05:45:25 PM

joeshill: Just to assuage your pet peeve.  The Theban Legion was reportedly decimated (for refusing to worship the emperor?) repeatedly.   "until none were left"


Sweet Caesar. What'd they do with the last guy, cut a tenth of his body off at a time till he died? (I wouldn't put that past the Romans - they weren't shy about brutality to make a point.)
 
2013-09-18 05:48:55 PM

HairBolus: I despise people who think there is a real difference between Objectivism and Libertarianism.

This sort of splitting hairs is about as creepy as to someone objecting to the word "pedophile" because there are more specific words for desire for specific age ranges and the person knows them all.


So, I guess there's no real difference between Progressivism and Communism then.

Or, you might say there is some overlap here and there, but the two philosophies start with different premises and come to different conclusions?
 
2013-09-18 05:53:10 PM

nmrsnr: This guy cannot be real, right? I mean you can't write this:

"Take a worst case scenario: a fire has just broken out in one of the firm's warehouses. Insiders start dumping their stock, selling it to hapless, ignorant outsiders who are about to see their newly bought stock plunge in price. But what is the cause of the stock's fall? The cause is not insider trading, but the fire."

And actually mean it. Because that's not even close to the worst case scenario. An obviously worse scenario is a bunch of CEOs shorting their own stock because they have direct control over whether their stock tanks, making a killing by destroying their own company, and walking away. The company is decimated not by accident, not by random act like fire, but because greedy people actively destroyed it for their own gain, putting hard working people out of work. And I'm pretty sure even that's not a worst case scenario, but I didn't want to spend more than a minute on this ridiculous human being.


The article seems like the kind of hyperbole that appears to be arguing one thing while actually making the case for the opposition. A Modest Free Market Proposal, but probably not on purpose.
 
2013-09-18 06:19:26 PM

rewind2846: FTA: "The hostility toward insider trading is based not on any legal consideration but on a vicious perversion of morality: egalitarianism-the same twisted, envy-ridden idea of morality our President is now promulgating in speeches around the nation."

You mean that everyone involved in any business deal should have all the information available for that deal at the same time - a level playing field, if you will? Like how capitalism is supposed to work?

What is up with these Randian assholes today?


Asymmetrical information is cool, as long as I'm making money off you. It's just evidence that I am smarter than you, and deserve more. But if you use asymmetrical information to make money off me, that's what we call fraud, and that's just like theft. Speaking of which, it's not theft if I let you to work for me for half of what you're labor is worth, and you agree to my terms because for some reason you think you'll starve. But it is theft if, for whatever reason, I think you'll beat me up if I don't give you money.
Objectivism is really pretty simple, when you understand the objective, so to speak: I have something I don't want to share, and I need to convince the everyone that's the way nature intended it to be.
 
2013-09-18 06:41:07 PM

strathcona: Aristocles: I'm not regarded as a douche

Sure you are.


In what way is he a shower?

//I know this game.
 
m00
2013-09-18 06:57:40 PM

nmrsnr: m00: Sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine.

I'll bet you use a dozen words exactly like that every day and don't notice.

The "dashboard" of your car? Comes from the board that used to be in front of the driver of a carriage that the mud kicked up from the horses would "dash" against. Nothing to do with gauges or meters.

Is a fancy party "decadent?" I doubt the building it was in was falling apart, but the word stems from the same root as "decay."

Give me an hour and I'm sure I could come up with ten more.


Yeah but a dashboard on a car is skeuomorphic. It's a design feature that exists as vestigial ornament of the form from which an automobile was derived. It's no longer functional, but the term is correct because that's what it is. Calling a party decadent refers to moral decay so that is also proper usage. It's an abstract usage, but it's valid.

But the word decimate literally means to reduce by a tenth.

Just like annihilate means to reduce to nothing since its root is nihil (see: nihilism).

I suspect that's the meaning you intended to convey: that the hypothetical company in your example was reduced to nothing.

I'm just saying... if you want to convey your ideas in a clear and precise manner, it's helpful to know the meaning of the words in your vocabulary. :)
 
2013-09-18 06:59:58 PM

ox45tallboy: Dusk-You-n-Me: 6. Intelligence? Why did we need intelligence?

There's another joke right there about his Randian philosophy, it's just not coming to me right now.


Saw that and was about to jump all over it but you beat me too it! Darn you Ox.
 
2013-09-18 07:46:42 PM
I defend laissez-faire capitalism, using Ayn Rand's Objectivism.


archive.foolzashit.com
 
2013-09-18 08:08:28 PM
So can we call the mythical crime of voter fraud "freedom voting" too?
 
2013-09-18 09:34:00 PM
This guy needs or is asking for an SEC boitch-slap.
The rules are there because everyone has a legitimate interest, including non-stockholders, and the government from ensuring a fair market place. Caveat emptor as it is known, the philosophy is guy is schlepping around in this column (he knows the word but knows that legally its a very very dirty word) doesn't work for one principal reason. People stop buying. If you cant trust that the goods you're buying at least have some warranty that what they what they are being sold as and appear to be at face value, are in fact what they are, then as a buyer you should demand a much lower price. The seller of the stock is demanding that you accept a risk as the buyer. But sellers want to make a profit and unless they  willing to offer some warranty they won't be able to make one because who would rationally take the risk. This leads of course to sellers intentionally or unintentionally violating said warranty because they either had no intention of honoring it, claim lack of consideration, or someone somewhere makes an oops. Now the buyer cannot trust the warranties they are issued with their purchase of stock and stop buying, and thus stop investing in the stock of corporations. Likewise the courts now overflow with contract cases for implied and actual warranties. Most of you probably aren't old enough to remember strike suits (I'm not) but we've already had to deal with stockholder shenanigans from both buyers and sellers earlier this century that clogged the courts. How do we solve this problem you ask? By mandating under law that everyone gets the same information. That way the buyer does not have to give a warranty because he can only act on the same information you have. The playing field is now somewhat leveled and risk is spread around.
/Objectivists are morans
 
2013-09-18 10:27:51 PM

crab66: I defend laissez-faire capitalism, using Ayn Rand's Objectivism.


[archive.foolzashiat.com image 850x606]


Yeah, that's one thing that Forbes is great at doing: All of their opinion columns have a short statement at the beginning that very succinctly tells the reader what the author's personal bias is. The same goes for those writing from the left in their pages, as well. It's kind of interesting, really- they're basically making sure their readers are aware of what lens to use when reading the column.
 
2013-09-18 10:40:32 PM
Forbes is really terrible. Some of the articles are "shout in public" bad. Just purely offensive on every level. This is one of them.

Although the article about spending $50k on tax preparation fees was my personal favorite.
 
2013-09-18 11:27:57 PM

HairBolus: gnosis301: Ricardo Klement: Wow - that is a huge load of hogwash.

This is part of why I could never be a Libertarian.

The author despises Libertarians, actually.

I despise people who think there is a real difference between Objectivism and Libertarianism.

This sort of splitting hairs is about as creepy as to someone objecting to the word "pedophile" because there are more specific words for desire for specific age ranges and the person knows them all.


In this case: Libertarians have far too many blue collar folks who are championing their cause, and that makes the Job Creators nervous, because they don't like to mix with "the help."
 
2013-09-18 11:33:18 PM

PanicMan: Forbes is really terrible. Some of the articles are "shout in public" bad. Just purely offensive on every level. This is one of them.

Although the article about spending $50k on tax preparation fees was my personal favorite.


In fairness, their online publication has to compete with the National Review Online, and that is a sea of DERP that just shames their parent magazine with every damn sentence. Forbes has long been about patting folks on the back, and telling them that they're OK for being rich, and they deserve it, dammit, for having to sit through all those boring "ethics" lectures. It is essentially a cheerleading session, for guys who don't want to admit that they would rather be at the Tilted Kilt for Hoegaarden draft night...
 
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