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(Forbes)   The mythical crime of "insider trading" should really be called "freedom trading"   (forbes.com) divider line 154
    More: Amusing, political freedom, Mises, trade, Spitzer  
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1739 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Sep 2013 at 1:29 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



154 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-18 01:58:07 PM
I bet this guy thinks that the only notion of crime is when someone poor tries to rob someone rich.

What's next: Organized Crime a Myth or Why should the State have a Monopoly on Violence?
 
2013-09-18 01:58:09 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: But every Randian is also a Prosperity Gospel "Christian."


Not really. I've been an atheist my whole life, but when I was in high school I thought along the lines of Rand's nonsense. (There it is - my big dirty secret.)

I got over it quickly after talking to someone who agreed with me and suggested I read Ayn Rand's work. She laid out very well the stuff I was thinking, and took it to a natural conclusion that any decent person ought to find utterly repugnant. So I decided that my premise had to be faulty.
 
2013-09-18 01:59:49 PM

jayhawk88: Take a worst case scenario: a fire has just broken out in one of the firm's warehouses. Insiders start dumping their stock, selling it to hapless, ignorant outsiders who are about to see their newly bought stock plunge in price.
But what is the cause of the stock's fall? The cause is not insider trading, but the fire. The cause is the economic facts: the firm's actual losses, not someone's early knowledge of it. It wouldn't have done the buyer the slightest good to have bought the stock from someone ignorant of the fire-the stock is going to plunge in any case. The buyer's problem has nothing to do with the state of mind of the person he buys from.

I literally cannot believe someone had the gall to write that in a major publication, unironicaly.


He didn't. He wrote it on Forbes' version of Examiner.

/Call him the Scott Wampler of Forbes.
 
2013-09-18 02:01:44 PM

m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?


Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to


No, we're not.
 
2013-09-18 02:01:55 PM
Just posted this on another story on another website, but it applies again

America is a country, where no matter how destructive your greed is, you can always count on a news outlet to defend it.
 
2013-09-18 02:02:25 PM
Thanks for that Mr. Inherited Wealth.
 
2013-09-18 02:02:59 PM
lol forbes, real rich merkins read the robb report
 
2013-09-18 02:03:11 PM
This from the same "the 99% should give back to the 1%" guy from the other thread.  Awesome, this moron is getting 2 greenlights a day.  Thanks,  Drew!  I love Ayn Rand-fellating trolls!
 
2013-09-18 02:03:21 PM
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
 
2013-09-18 02:05:59 PM
Why am I reading through this guy's archive? Get a load of this one.

"Bush lied, people died!"-they yell it out. But that is a moral denunciation. Despite their multiculturalism and relativism, in practice the Left does not treat morality as up for grabs, as subjectively "in the eye of the beholder." They assert moral absolutes, while still mouthing their official doctrine: "There are no absolutes."

If relativist Leftists accepted and lived by their notion that morality is a myth, they could not advocate any political position. If morality is a myth, then there's really no such thing as "social justice"-or any other kind of justice, no such thing as an obligation to the needy or to anyone else. If morality is just a "social construct," then the concept of "obligation" as such is mythical-on a par with the concept of "ghost." How can the relativist-Left then have any political position at all? Only by sneaking in the kind of absolutist moral judgments that their theory scorns.
 
2013-09-18 02:06:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTafZRecy2k">http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=aTafZRecy2k   Fark the fat cats!
 
2013-09-18 02:07:37 PM
That reminds me, I actually have a fond memory of the robb report, I was a fun loving 20 year old at a party at this rich kid's house, where this guy was selling hits of acid the friends I was with and myself each bought 2 and immediately took them. We tripped all night and in the early hours of the morning when I was coming down I was sitting with this really cute girl on a couch in the library looking at the ads for islands and planes in the back of the robb report, deciding which ones we should buy.
 
2013-09-18 02:08:03 PM
Consequences dictate
course of action
and it doesn't matter what's right
It's only wrong if you get caught.
 
2013-09-18 02:08:04 PM

nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.


The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.
 
2013-09-18 02:09:10 PM
Who is this motherfarker and why is he Onionizing Forbes?
 
2013-09-18 02:09:21 PM
In before someone claims, in all seriousness, that this loop should run for president.
 
2013-09-18 02:09:27 PM

Gosling: Why am I reading through this guy's archive? Get a load of this one.

"Bush lied, people died!"-they yell it out. But that is a moral denunciation. Despite their multiculturalism and relativism, in practice the Left does not treat morality as up for grabs, as subjectively "in the eye of the beholder." They assert moral absolutes, while still mouthing their official doctrine: "There are no absolutes."

If relativist Leftists accepted and lived by their notion that morality is a myth, they could not advocate any political position. If morality is a myth, then there's really no such thing as "social justice"-or any other kind of justice, no such thing as an obligation to the needy or to anyone else. If morality is just a "social construct," then the concept of "obligation" as such is mythical-on a par with the concept of "ghost." How can the relativist-Left then have any political position at all? Only by sneaking in the kind of absolutist moral judgments that their theory scorns.


That guy sounds like an elitist intellectual.
 
2013-09-18 02:10:00 PM

neversubmit: Consequences dictate
course of action
and it doesn't matter what's right
It's only wrong if you get caught.


If consequences dictate
My course of action
Then I should play God
And shoot you myself.
 
2013-09-18 02:10:16 PM

Cinaed: So.... lemme get the argument straight.  So long as the 'hapless outsider' is bilked and the 'upstanding insider' makes a delightful chunk of change, all is right with the world?


That is literally it. Here's a comment below all of the "great job!" comments in the article that spells it out:

I'm guessing this is an oblique reference to the idea that a market that allows "insider trading" is somehow "fixed" against the average investor. If so, so what? Why is that the government's business? Noone is forcing the average investor to participate in this allegedly rigged game. Nor is anyone preventing the stock markets from setting up whatever rules they like for trading on their exchanges.

If there is no coercion, then anyone who invests can use their own judgment to decide if it is in their interest to continue to do so, given the rules of the market. Since such trading undoubtedly does take place, government interference or not, and since the average investor undoubtedly knows of this, I would conclude that Giuliani's analogy fails. It's not the first time Rudy's been wrong, and it won't be the last.


The stock market is a scam for the average investor. Yet we're constantly told to be trust all of our savings and retirement plans to it and conservatives want to make sure even more money from average investors gets "freed" from things like Social Security and health care and put into the market.
 
2013-09-18 02:10:24 PM

Karac: It's totally -not- rape to have sex with a woman after feeding her a roofied drink!


It's her fault for insufficient due diligence on the contents of her glass.
 
2013-09-18 02:11:50 PM

Aristocles: nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.

The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.


Whoa there buddy. You're supposed to be an obvious troll, not someone who makes sense.
 
2013-09-18 02:12:52 PM

Aristocles: nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.

The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.


Words evolve.  Get used to it.  Or get used to being regarded as a douche.  Pick one.
 
m00
2013-09-18 02:13:15 PM
Here's the thing.

An "insider" is someone at a company that has specific financial knowledge. It's not the engineer making a product, he's not an insider. Insiders are the CEO, CFO, board of directors, and so forth.

The "insider trading" is an unethical business practice and grossly unfair is because in a world where insiders exist, CEOs have even more incentive to obscure information that goes public about their business so that they can capitalize on it. Or share it with their CEO clique of friends so they can all capitalize on it. The breaks the foundation of the free market.

When I buy a share of a public company, it's because the CEO and the board have created it. Creating shares takes a chunk value out of a company in a very real sense, and then the company exchanges that value for cash. Stock trading is a competition -- you are competing with every other shareholder to buy and sell at the right time (aka before anyone else). If I CEO can buy and sell his personal shares with  asymmetric information because he is also the guy issuing those shares, then it's a rigged game and a conflict of interest.

It's like playing "guess a number between 1 and 10" and the person you are playing against is also the guy choosing the number. Of course he is going to win every time, because he knows the number he is thinking of.
 
2013-09-18 02:13:21 PM

grumpfuff: Aristocles: nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.

The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.

Whoa there buddy. You're supposed to be an obvious troll, not someone who makes sense.


How is insisting on an antiquated usage in the face of obvious meaning in context not trolling?
 
2013-09-18 02:14:14 PM
With some borrowed money and inside information, you can extract all the value out of any company you want with a few selected trades.   This is why it is illegal.  If it were legal our entire economy would collapse from the actions of a few selected traders.
 
2013-09-18 02:14:51 PM

Aristocles: The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.


I'm not Roman and I ain't in the legion. Decimate means ruin, destroy, etc. Or are you going to tell me next that living in Texas means I'm friendly because Texas is the english version of Tejas, which is the spanish version of an indian word meaning friend?
 
2013-09-18 02:15:04 PM
HARRY BINS WANGER
 
2013-09-18 02:17:12 PM

Aristocles: The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.


In the spirit of your post, screw you.
 
2013-09-18 02:17:14 PM

ikanreed: grumpfuff: Aristocles: nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.

The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.

Whoa there buddy. You're supposed to be an obvious troll, not someone who makes sense.

How is insisting on an antiquated usage in the face of obvious meaning in context not trolling?


Compared to the usual crap he posts? For instance, he didn't blame it on libruls or N0bama or whatever.
 
2013-09-18 02:18:01 PM
Coming from Steven A. Cohen, who has access and use of collocated trading platforms in major exchanges seems humorous. For the uniformed, collocating means the user pays a yearly fee of several million dollars a year for the right and ability to manipulate the market price of stocks. He already gets to cut to the front of the line on trades and because of the unfetter access of the platform users can and do cause prices drops and increases with buy and sell order that are never completed. He not only has the right in his mind for insider trading I bet he pays a firm in DC for political intelligence, that is considered a form of legal insider trading but because there is no government oversight or registration required of the lobbyists and Congress and Obama excepted themselves again from insider trading laws, the amount siphoned of the capital markets for personal enrichment is unknown.
 
2013-09-18 02:18:24 PM

give me doughnuts: I didn't get past this: I defend laissez-faire capitalism, using Ayn Rand's Objectivism.

Does anyone have a summary that won't make my IQ go down too many points?


What ever the rich want to steal from you should be legal, it should only be illegal when the poor or the government are taxing the rich.
 
2013-09-18 02:19:35 PM

m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?


Let's ask Hostess that. Oh wait you can't because they were decimated.
 
2013-09-18 02:19:36 PM

rev. dave: With some borrowed money and inside information, you can extract all the value out of any company you want with a few selected trades.   This is why it is illegal.  If it were legal our entire economy would collapse from the actions of a few selected traders.


Not to mention any retail investor who was paying attention would pull their money out of the market.
 
m00
2013-09-18 02:24:50 PM

nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.


Sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine.

As it was pointed out in this thread 3 arises due to modern misuse. It's a Latin word, and it means something very specific. I mean c'mon... it has deci in it which means tenth. There's no ambiguity here.

It would be like if kids stopped learning about geometry and in 30 years "hexagon" started being used as a generic word for "shape" because nobody knew better.

As I said, pet peeve. :)
 
2013-09-18 02:26:58 PM
It would be an interesting experiment to eliminate insider trading laws, but you're a fool if you think you can be certain about how it would go.
 
2013-09-18 02:29:26 PM
 
2013-09-18 02:29:38 PM
Buying and selling of stock across state lines is "interstate commerce", to which Congress is granted the authority to regulate "promote the general welfare". The prohibition on insider trading seeks to promote the general welfare by trying to reduce the deviations from the ideal theoretical "free market" resulting from increased deviation from the presumed condition of "perfect information"; and also (historically) to increase public trust in stock markets, thus increasing the capital pool available for corporate investment towards further wealth creation.

If you don't like it, feel free to petition for Amendment, or to go Galt.
 
2013-09-18 02:32:32 PM

grumpfuff: Aristocles: nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.

The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.

Whoa there buddy. You're supposed to be an obvious troll, not someone who makes sense.


I know. I've come to see that no matter what I post, I'll be "decimated" by at least a handful of Farkers.

joeshill:

Words evolve.  Get used to it.  Or get used to being regarded as a douche.  Pick one.

I'm not regarded as a douche, I'm regarded as a condescending a-hole who thinks he's smarter and, therefore, better than everyone with whom he speaks.
 
2013-09-18 02:35:12 PM

Mikey1969: theknuckler_33: Harry Binswanger, Contributor  I defend laissez-faire capitalism, using Ayn Rand's Objectivism.

stoppedreadingrightthere.png

[www.gravatar.com image 136x136]
Hell, I stopped when I saw it was the same moron from the other thread. Didn't even need to get to his name, the pic was enough.


I had the same reaction, but then I thought: "Hmph. I myself have written many stupid things in a public forum while drunk, angry, or just plain trolling.  I would not want to be judged solely by the content of one of those posts.  I should give Mr. Binswanger a chance and read this."  So I did.

You guys were right.  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
 
2013-09-18 02:40:53 PM

Aristocles: grumpfuff: Aristocles: nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.

The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.

Whoa there buddy. You're supposed to be an obvious troll, not someone who makes sense.

I know. I've come to see that no matter what I post, I'll be "decimated" by at least a handful of Farkers.

joeshill:

Words evolve.  Get used to it.  Or get used to being regarded as a douche.  Pick one.

I'm not regarded as a douche, I'm regarded as a condescending a-hole who thinks he's smarter and, therefore, better than everyone with whom he speaks.


As long as you are aware of the fact, then my work here is done.

Missed you at the last meeting.    Next time, get there early, and bring Tim Hortons.
 
2013-09-18 02:44:30 PM

Virtuoso80: It would be an interesting experiment to eliminate insider trading laws, but you're a fool if you think you can be certain about how it would go.


He's starting from the assumption that all the inside information traded on will be good news, which isn't even remotely true.  In reality, you're also giving insiders the chance to dump their stock at the first sign of a drop.  The market would have to watch insiders closely and follow what they do as closely as possible to hope to have any chance of riding the wave up or down.  If it goes up, insiders get richer and investors get richer.  If it goes down, insiders stay rich, investors minimize their losses, and the company collapses under the losses even in situations that it may have been able to ride out without the massive initial sell off.  Also, insiders are under heavy pressure to sell at the earliest signs of a problem, because whoever sells first reaps the greatest reward as everyone else tries to catch up.

In essence, you're benefiting the rich by injecting steroids into the boom/bust nature of business and introducing a great deal of chaos to an already chaotic system.  And once again, the guy left holding the bag is the now unemployed worker whose retirement is worth a small fraction of what it was worth before the company folded.
 
2013-09-18 02:45:56 PM

Gosling: "Those on the Right should be pointing out that "selfish greed" is a smear-term: it blackens ambitiousness and the desire to produce wealth, which are virtues, by associating them with mindless gluttony. But Rightists don't expose the smear because they share the anti-self morality, or at least fear to challenge it."

He just keeps farking talking.


Someone should tell this guy that cancer is simply a condition that is very ambitious and has a desire to produce wealth, both of which are virtues.

Perhaps he should investigating getting it (cancer, that is).
 
2013-09-18 02:47:11 PM
I am very sad that this isn't from the onion.
 
2013-09-18 02:49:23 PM

m00: Sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine.


I'll bet you use a dozen words exactly like that every day and don't notice.

The "dashboard" of your car? Comes from the board that used to be in front of the driver of a carriage that the mud kicked up from the horses would "dash" against. Nothing to do with gauges or meters.

Is a fancy party "decadent?" I doubt the building it was in was falling apart, but the word stems from the same root as "decay."

Give me an hour and I'm sure I could come up with ten more.
 
2013-09-18 02:50:52 PM

Aristocles: grumpfuff: Aristocles: nmrsnr: m00: nmrsnr: The company is decimated...

it's reduced by by a tenth?

Oh look, aren't we being clever? Oh, wait

1: to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
2: to exact a tax of 10 percent from
3
a : to reduce drastically especially in number
b : to cause great destruction or harm to

No, we're not.

The third listing for that word is the result of modern misuse. The first is the true definition.

Whoa there buddy. You're supposed to be an obvious troll, not someone who makes sense.

I know. I've come to see that no matter what I post, I'll be "decimated" by at least a handful of Farkers.

joeshill:

Words evolve.  Get used to it.  Or get used to being regarded as a douche.  Pick one.

I'm not regarded as a douche, I'm regarded as a condescending a-hole who thinks he's smarter and, therefore, better than everyone with whom he speaks.


Just to assuage your pet peeve.  The Theban Legion was reportedly decimated (for refusing to worship the emperor?) repeatedly.   "until none were left"
 
2013-09-18 02:51:19 PM

HighOnCraic: "SAC Capital's founder, Steven A. Cohen, is being tried as a witch..."


If he's guilty, do we get to burn him at the stake?

/I'll bring the marshmallows
 
2013-09-18 02:51:31 PM
He's kind of right. People should assume that people with insider knowledge are conspiring to turn that knowledge into money. Given that information, they should not invest in the stock market. His ideas are as cunning as his plans are foolproof.
 
2013-09-18 02:54:44 PM

nmrsnr: Is a fancy party "decadent?" I doubt the building it was in was falling apart, but the word stems from the same root as "decay."


The see no problem with that word as commonly used and decay sharing a root. "Decadent" and "sinful" are often used to describe the same dessert for a reason.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-18 02:56:43 PM

ikanreed: How is insisting on an antiquated usage in the face of obvious meaning in context not trolling?


It literally means that in Latin.  Decem = 10.

It means reduce by 1/10th.
 
2013-09-18 02:58:35 PM

nmrsnr: m00: Sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine.

I'll bet you use a dozen words exactly like that every day and don't notice.

The "dashboard" of your car? Comes from the board that used to be in front of the driver of a carriage that the mud kicked up from the horses would "dash" against. Nothing to do with gauges or meters.

Is a fancy party "decadent?" I doubt the building it was in was falling apart, but the word stems from the same root as "decay."

Give me an hour and I'm sure I could come up with ten more.


You're getting rather hysterical over this, no?
 
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