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(Slate)   Conservatives long awaited Obamacare replacement bill is set to be unveiled, laughed at   (slate.com) divider line 473
    More: Amusing, obamacare  
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2816 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Sep 2013 at 11:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-18 12:57:47 PM  

Lucky LaRue: DarnoKonrad: Lucky LaRue: my political views are far, far superior

I nominate you mayor of the Politics Tab.  Should you be elected, you'll receive a top hat, monocle, and monogrammed butt plug.

If you are going to be offensive, at least put some ideas behind it.  "Hurr!  I made a joke at your expense!" is not really what you want to be going for, is it?


So you're done with making your points and you're now settled into "Trying to make fun of you for making fun of me" banter... fascinating. So, can you recap what your points in the thread were?
 
2013-09-18 12:57:48 PM  
So question: if we give every individual a $7,000 deduction for health insurance (or $20,000 deduction per household). What will the 47% 43% of households that don't have a federal income tax liability increase to?
 
2013-09-18 12:58:03 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: "The RSC press release announcing the bill's introduction included no hints of what the legislation might contain."

Until then, there is nothing to discuss. Just threads full of 'OMG I hate repubs'!!elevenses!!1!!


Well except even you now are admitting that the Republicans saying they had a plan all these years was a big lie.
 
2013-09-18 12:58:35 PM  

theknuckler_33: None of which makes your comment that there is 'nothing to discuss' any more valid.


OK. Tell you what. You just disregard my comment, and go on and have all the discussion you like. You don't actually need me to approve that, but I am approving it anyway. Discuss all you want.

theknuckler_33: And, considering the GOP has spent 3 years in a juvenile display of footstomping by holding repeated and futile repeal/defund votes without any kind of serious proposal of their own, until now (even though this one is still being kept under wraps for some reason), saying that the GOP sucks on this issue is pretty much a bullseye.


....and Look. As predicted, there is your " 'OMG I hate repubs'!!elevenses!!1!!' comment exactly as predicted. Right on queue.

Don't let me stop you from proving me right.
 
2013-09-18 12:59:58 PM  

born_yesterday: phenn: Voiceofreason01: FlashHarry: point of order: obamacare - and specifically, the individual mandate - IS a conservative idea, having originated at the heritage foundation in the 1990s.

Not to mention that Mitt Romney as a Republican Governor implemented as nearly identical plan in Massachusetts then campaigned against it a few years later when running for President.

Maybe the great lesson in all of this is that there is no difference between dems and pubs. Perhaps they are all on the same side - theirs - and you and I don't enter into the equation inasmuch as decision making is concerned.

You and I are just cash cows to those in power.

My issue with this line of thinking is that the ACA is having a real effect on peoples lives--most immediately, those with pre-existing conditions, and would have had more of one had single-payer been left in.  The Republicans have (until today, two weeks before implementation) proposed nothing.

The idea that there is no difference between the two parties does not hold up on the issue of health care.


Well, the point was made earlier that pubs have proposed the same model. My grief with ACA is that is smells like a premium grab and doesn't (IMO) address the core of the health care delivery problem. The core of the problem being cost of care.

As far as the republican efforts to defund ACA, I think we can all agree it's nothing more than theatrics intended to rouse the base. You are correct that they've proposed little of any value. My take is that's for a reason.They wanted ACA as badly as the dems did because it benefits their corporate buddies.

As always, I'm happy to be wrong. Just my $.02.
 
2013-09-18 01:00:09 PM  

Lucky LaRue: mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.

The sad thing is that all the liberals would immediately start screaming about how bad the bill was for the country.


 I'm  listening to any serious proposal or solution with an open mind.     I've just yet to hear a serious proposal.

It's a shame too, because the catastrophy of a healthcare system we have in this country is a very complex problem that needs a lot of different voices looking at it from a lot of different points of view and offering a lot of different solutions.    Too bad the GOP couldn't put on their big boy pants and come to the table like grownups in 2009.
 
2013-09-18 01:01:16 PM  

meat0918: DROxINxTHExWIND: meat0918: Can we just get rid of health insurance altogether and just get a national healthcare system going?


Dear meat0918,

No. We like collecting premiums from MILLIONS of Americans who don't go to the doctor anywhere near as much as they should. Most people are paying about $80/ per person, per month and they only go to the doctor a few times per year. But, we love to sell the notion that everybody in America is swimming with illness and that it will require an infinite amount of money to heal them all. biatch, don't kill our vibe.

Sincerely,

The Insurance Industry

And then when I did farking go, the ER didn't even charge my insurance, meaning I got the full $900 bill.

1 farking stitch in my finger from cutting it very deep but not very wide on a can (you could see tendon or at least something stringy looking) and they charge you $900 ($600 from the ER, ~$140 for the stitch, then ~$160 for the doctor), and I've been paying premiums for years, YEARS, without actually using the damn insurance, but my company requires me to pay the premiums for the group plan.

Once insurance processes it, it'll be about $300-$400.  $75 insurance copay, plus about $100 to meet my deductible, plus 20% of the remaining balance on the bill.

I can see paying the $160 for the doc, that's my smallest portion of the complaint.  The single stitch though?!?!! WTF?


I winced a little reading that. I remember when I was young, I fell off my bike on a gravel path and a rock got caught in my knee. When the rock was removed, some of the parts inside the wound were white. I was confused at the time as to why there was white showing between blood gushes but it made sense over time. And that's creepy, that I most likely ripped my skin open to bone and it healed, with some Neosporin and a bandage, into a scar.
 
2013-09-18 01:01:46 PM  

Lucky LaRue: This is what I least enjoy about talking with your lot.  You get so overwrought you can't even put forward ideas; you just start throwing out insults and celebrating a "score."


I've been reading the thread a while and have yet to see you articulate what a good health care plan might be, just a lot of both sides are bad, and thank heaven I'm not one of them.

Care to put up or shut up?

Either would do, really.

BojanglesPaladin: Really? You genuinely believe there are NO bad parts of ACA? You honestly think that ACA is flawless, and will fix all that was broken with the healthcare system?


This?  Again?

Really?

Spare us, please.
 
2013-09-18 01:02:31 PM  

mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.


They'll offer Hillary Clinton's plan.
 
2013-09-18 01:02:33 PM  

InmanRoshi: Lucky LaRue: mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.

The sad thing is that all the liberals would immediately start screaming about how bad the bill was for the country.

 I'm  listening to any serious proposal or solution with an open mind.     I've just yet to hear a serious proposal.

It's a shame too, because the catastrophy of a healthcare system we have in this country is a very complex problem that needs a lot of different voices looking at it from a lot of different points of view and offering a lot of different solutions.    Too bad the GOP couldn't put on their big boy pants and come to the table like grownups in 2009.


I don't get it.  You say you are listening with an open mind, but in the next breath you are antagonizing your opponents.  Would you want to sit down across the table with someone who talks down to you like you're a child?
 
2013-09-18 01:03:52 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: The bill from the Republican Study Committee would fully repeal the 2010 law and replace it with an expansion of health savings accounts, medical liability reform and the elimination of restrictions on purchasing insurance across state lines.

Scalise: "Warmed up shiatloaf! Get yer warmed up shiatloaf here!"


"
Roe said Scalise came to him a few months ago with a set of marching orders. "He said you can't have any mandates in this bill. You can't raise taxes. You've got to reform the tax code, but there can't be any subsidies involved," Roe recalled. "That's pretty limited in what we can do. I think within those parameters, we came up with a pretty good bill." "

Nice.
 
2013-09-18 01:05:30 PM  

Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: This is what I least enjoy about talking with your lot.  You get so overwrought you can't even put forward ideas; you just start throwing out insults and celebrating a "score."

I've been reading the thread a while and have yet to see you articulate what a good health care plan might be, just a lot of both sides are bad, and thank heaven I'm not one of them.

Care to put up or shut up?

Either would do, really.

BojanglesPaladin: Really? You genuinely believe there are NO bad parts of ACA? You honestly think that ACA is flawless, and will fix all that was broken with the healthcare system?

This?  Again?

Really?

Spare us, please.


You haven't read enough of this thread if that's the conclusion you've drawn.  My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.  I've not made any effort to opine on the ACA.
 
2013-09-18 01:05:35 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: ....and Look. As predicted, there is your " 'OMG I hate repubs'!!elevenses!!1!!' comment exactly as predicted. Right on queue.

Don't let me stop you from proving me right.


I'll mark you down as considering 40-some votes to repeal/defund Obamacare as time well spent. *check*

Calling people juvenile for being Republican (or Democrat for that matter) is pretty stupid.
Calling people juvenile for being juvenile is accurate.
 
2013-09-18 01:05:45 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Witty_Retort: For the previous 2 years, the increase has drastically slowed. From 01 to 10, it was climbing over 8% per year, last 2 years only 5%.

Those numbers do not at all seem to

jive with what I have seen, including my own experience which is double digit increases 5 years running and an 11% increase fro 2014. (Of course you ARE seeing more companies drop to worse plans to stave off these increases).

But I'm happy to see where you got those numbers from.


http://kff.org/report-section/2013-summary-of-findings/
Health Insurance Company Requests For Double Digit Premium Increases Plummeting

BojanglesPaladin: Witty_Retort: Shouldn't you be saying no to linkbait?

I don't have an issue with Slate like I do with ThinkProgress, NewsBusters, American Thinker, etc.


Just yanking your chain. Links from The Blaze are still good? Breitbart? Alex Jones?
FOX News?

Buried deep in the derp is:
"a forecast of sharply dropping premiums for individual health insurance in New York"

"meaning that by adding the federal requirement that all humans* not covered by a government program purchase insurance, the risk pool will expand and rates will drop."

But then they herped off to the debunked 88% rate hike in Ohio
 
2013-09-18 01:05:52 PM  

Grungehamster: So question: if we give every individual a $7,000 deduction for health insurance (or $20,000 deduction per household). What will the 47% 43% of households that don't have a federal income tax liability increase to?


I asked the same question basically.

The cognitive dissonance train has left the station apparently.
 
2013-09-18 01:06:28 PM  

Chummer45: Seriously - I think that the GOP's magic wand consists of (1) tax cuts (2) deregulation (3) cutting spending (except on things they like, i.e., the military).


Well they never actually cut spending, they always increase it, it just looks like they are cutting it because the budgets of things that help people get cut, and then that and more is shuffled off to their cronies (as you say, often via the military) - as most people don't see any benefit from the new spending they generally assume government spending must have gone down.
 
2013-09-18 01:07:10 PM  
Republican Plan: If we just stop feeding old people and giving them medicine, they'll die off. Social Security and Health Care saved! It's a win/win!
 
2013-09-18 01:07:46 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: meat0918: DROxINxTHExWIND: meat0918: Can we just get rid of health insurance altogether and just get a national healthcare system going?


Dear meat0918,

No. We like collecting premiums from MILLIONS of Americans who don't go to the doctor anywhere near as much as they should. Most people are paying about $80/ per person, per month and they only go to the doctor a few times per year. But, we love to sell the notion that everybody in America is swimming with illness and that it will require an infinite amount of money to heal them all. biatch, don't kill our vibe.

Sincerely,

The Insurance Industry

And then when I did farking go, the ER didn't even charge my insurance, meaning I got the full $900 bill.

1 farking stitch in my finger from cutting it very deep but not very wide on a can (you could see tendon or at least something stringy looking) and they charge you $900 ($600 from the ER, ~$140 for the stitch, then ~$160 for the doctor), and I've been paying premiums for years, YEARS, without actually using the damn insurance, but my company requires me to pay the premiums for the group plan.

Once insurance processes it, it'll be about $300-$400.  $75 insurance copay, plus about $100 to meet my deductible, plus 20% of the remaining balance on the bill.

I can see paying the $160 for the doc, that's my smallest portion of the complaint.  The single stitch though?!?!! WTF?


Exactly.


To make matters more infuriating, we found out our employer choose to stay with a grandfathered insurance plan.

So we get most of it, but preventative care still isn't covered, among other things

They were really, REALLY vague about whether or not we still have to participate in the group plan when I asked for clarification regarding the notice we got from them about the state exchanges.
 
2013-09-18 01:08:41 PM  

Solid Muldoon: Republican Plan: If we just stop feeding old people and giving them medicine, they'll die off. Social Security and Health Care saved! It's a win/win!


I'm curious.. do you really believe the Republicans want to kill off America's elderly?
 
2013-09-18 01:08:47 PM  

Deucednuisance: BojanglesPaladin: Really? You genuinely believe there are NO bad parts of ACA? You honestly think that ACA is flawless, and will fix all that was broken with the healthcare system?

This? Again?

Really?

Spare us, please.


In every Israel thread there's the mosquito dude with his crazy David Duke rantings, and in every ACA thread there's this "independent" moaning for the thousandth time about what a disaster is befalling us all.

But there was some funny sh*t in this thread, and I guess that's why some of us put up with all the other crap.
 
2013-09-18 01:09:15 PM  
The main problem here is how to get as much money as possible into the hands of the insurance companies. Until this is addressed, nothing will change.
 
2013-09-18 01:09:39 PM  

Aristocles: FlashHarry: point of order: obamacare - and specifically, the individual mandate - IS a conservative idea, having originated at the heritage foundation in the 1990s.

No one cares who came up with the idea, the problem is that it's an affront to individual freedom.


^^^ This is why conservatives should not be invited to the grown-ups table. They don't even have the barest scrap of wit to understand why they sound so foolish.
 
2013-09-18 01:10:26 PM  

Lucky LaRue: You haven't read enough of this thread if that's the conclusion you've drawn.  My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.  I've not made any effort to opine on the ACA.


Great!  You may consider that point thoroughly rendered into equine form, worked unto exhaustion and expiration, and being put through the indignities of repeated blows in attempts to rouse its lifeless form into action.

"Say something once, why say it again?" - David Byrne

"Say something once, why say it fifty more times with an air of snotty condescension?" - The Rest of Fark.

Seriously, man.  Give it a rest unless you have something to say.
 
2013-09-18 01:10:30 PM  

Chummer45: So is the draft, jury duty, taxes, death, and crippling disease. But it's all stuff that's a fact of life and that we as a society have to deal with.


I'll give you jury duty. We have a volunteer military now, and death and disease are, indeed facts of life, but they're not affronts to liberty.
 
2013-09-18 01:10:34 PM  

Lucky LaRue: InmanRoshi: Lucky LaRue: mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.

The sad thing is that all the liberals would immediately start screaming about how bad the bill was for the country.

 I'm  listening to any serious proposal or solution with an open mind.     I've just yet to hear a serious proposal.

It's a shame too, because the catastrophy of a healthcare system we have in this country is a very complex problem that needs a lot of different voices looking at it from a lot of different points of view and offering a lot of different solutions.    Too bad the GOP couldn't put on their big boy pants and come to the table like grownups in 2009.

I don't get it.  You say you are listening with an open mind, but in the next breath you are antagonizing your opponents.  Would you want to sit down across the table with someone who talks down to you like you're a child?


Republicans have been lying through their teeth regarding their intents in Congress. "Laser-like focus on jobs", etc. Proof is there, they're trying a 42nd time to repeal a plan they created without putting a serious contender for a replacement, or an argument as to why it's so bad it needs repealing with the aforementioned laser-like effort (or lazer, if you prefer). If they came out and said they have a plan for the people to consider, and it was a serious, thought-out plan to help all Americans, it would be very easy to look at the plan without judgment for the offeree and at the very least see what their idea is. Nope, needs repealing, government shutdown looming but still pushing "priorities" around, no serious budget balancing discussions to be had.
 
2013-09-18 01:11:05 PM  
AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE! - Brought to you by the party of magical budgets with tax cuts and increased Defense spending.
 
2013-09-18 01:12:49 PM  

Chummer45: Seriously, what could the GOP possibly propose that would even come close to addressing the rising cost of health care, or the pre existing condition issue?  It seems to me their primary opposition to Obamacare has always been (1) it was proposed by a democrat, and (2) it was enacted by a democrat.

I mean, what are they going to propose?  "Free market" health care?  Ok... if they're serious about that notion, then they'd have to do away with medicaid and medicare and privatize the entire system.  That'll go over well.  And it will totally reign in costs and improve health care in the US.

It's funny to watch the GOP struggle when asked what their own ideas are.  I remember Romney's response was "oh, well, we'll make sure pre existing conditions are covered, and kids can stay on their parents' plans, and (basically all the popular elements of the ACA), but we're going to do away with the individual mandate.

Yes, that's the GOP - the party of "personal responsibility."


My guess is something like the following:
- Eliminate corporate and personal income taxes
- Everybody now has a job
- Employer-sponsored insurance already bans pre-existing-condition discrimination

More seriously, it'll probably just be the usual claptrap about interstate insurance sales, tort reform and whatnot, in an attempt to bring the magic of the free market to an industry that exhibits every market failure in the book (and a few specific to it).
 
2013-09-18 01:13:37 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Mentat: The state-level exchanges aren't advertising the exchanges as ObamaCare.  They have different names for them that intentionally separate from ObamaCare.  When they explain to customers what plans are available, most people are pretty happy.  In Kentucky, there was one instance of a customer remarking, "This is better than ObamaCare!"  It's one of the weirdest disconnects I've ever seen.

That's pretty typical of the ODS crowd.  Didn't like a third of LA Republicans recently blame the poor response to Hurricane Katrina on Obama?

These people are just insane.  They are literally separated from sanity.


They've still never forgiven Obama for betraying the Confederacy during the War of Northern Aggression.
 
2013-09-18 01:13:38 PM  

Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: This is what I least enjoy about talking with your lot.  You get so overwrought you can't even put forward ideas; you just start throwing out insults and celebrating a "score."

I've been reading the thread a while and have yet to see you articulate what a good health care plan might be, just a lot of both sides are bad, and thank heaven I'm not one of them.

Care to put up or shut up?

Either would do, really.

BojanglesPaladin: Really? You genuinely believe there are NO bad parts of ACA? You honestly think that ACA is flawless, and will fix all that was broken with the healthcare system?

This?  Again?

Really?

Spare us, please.


Give 'em a break.  It's much easier to argue with what the imaginary liberal said than what people in this thread are saying.

Thus, "Obamacare isn't perfect, but it's better than doing nothing" becomes either

a) "Obamacare sucks ass, but it pisses off Republicans so I'm for it," or
b) "Obamacare is flawless and perfect in every way."

Aren't those much easier to argue against?
 
2013-09-18 01:14:35 PM  

Lucky LaRue: Solid Muldoon: Republican Plan: If we just stop feeding old people and giving them medicine, they'll die off. Social Security and Health Care saved! It's a win/win!

I'm curious.. do you really believe the Republicans want to kill off America's elderly?


The poor ones? I don't think too many tears would be shed by the GOP. When you promote policies with that very purpose at the core, you can't claim ignorance later.
 
2013-09-18 01:15:57 PM  

Lucky LaRue: My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.


I feel so dirty for doing this, but:

Have you somehow missed the fact that many of your so-called left extremists have countered that point in this very thread and said (for instance) they would support single-payer heartily if put forth by the GOP?

I count myself among them.  I'm a fanboi, but I can applaud when the other side gets something right.

You're trenchant observation reeks of confirmation bias.
 
2013-09-18 01:16:01 PM  

COMALite J: Lionel Mandrake: Mentat: The state-level exchanges aren't advertising the exchanges as ObamaCare.  They have different names for them that intentionally separate from ObamaCare.  When they explain to customers what plans are available, most people are pretty happy.  In Kentucky, there was one instance of a customer remarking, "This is better than ObamaCare!"  It's one of the weirdest disconnects I've ever seen.

That's pretty typical of the ODS crowd.  Didn't like a third of LA Republicans recently blame the poor response to Hurricane Katrina on Obama?

These people are just insane.  They are literally separated from sanity.

They've still never forgiven Obama for betraying the Confederacy during the War of Northern Aggression.


Or plotting to surrender West Point to the hated British
 
2013-09-18 01:16:45 PM  

Lucky LaRue: mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.

The sad thing is that all the liberals would immediately start screaming about how bad the bill was for the country.


Yeah, you know how liberals think!

/No, you don't, you are hallucinating.
 
2013-09-18 01:17:23 PM  

Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: You haven't read enough of this thread if that's the conclusion you've drawn.  My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.  I've not made any effort to opine on the ACA.

Great!  You may consider that point thoroughly rendered into equine form, worked unto exhaustion and expiration, and being put through the indignities of repeated blows in attempts to rouse its lifeless form into action.

"Say something once, why say it again?" - David Byrne

"Say something once, why say it fifty more times with an air of snotty condescension?" - The Rest of Fark.

Seriously, man.  Give it a rest unless you have something to say.


Ha!  So, since I am not arguing against your straw man, you'd rather I just shut up and go away so you can feel the warm, secure embrace of your echo-chamber?  I am sorry if you think it's snotty condescension, but the observation that extremist are destroying America can't be made enough.  Seriously.  You guys suck.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-09-18 01:18:17 PM  

Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.

I feel so dirty for doing this, but:

Have you somehow missed the fact that many of your so-called left extremists have countered that point in this very thread and said (for instance) they would support single-payer heartily if put forth by the GOP?

I count myself among them.  I'm a fanboi, but I can applaud when the other side gets something right.

You're trenchant observation reeks of confirmation bias.


Right now I am considered a dirty leftist because I think that every idea (or lack of) of the GOP is total crap.

Again, being a "leftist" to these folks means I don't agree with their point of view in lockstep.
 
2013-09-18 01:20:09 PM  

Triple Oak: Lucky LaRue: InmanRoshi: Lucky LaRue: mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.

The sad thing is that all the liberals would immediately start screaming about how bad the bill was for the country.

 I'm  listening to any serious proposal or solution with an open mind.     I've just yet to hear a serious proposal.

It's a shame too, because the catastrophy of a healthcare system we have in this country is a very complex problem that needs a lot of different voices looking at it from a lot of different points of view and offering a lot of different solutions.    Too bad the GOP couldn't put on their big boy pants and come to the table like grownups in 2009.

I don't get it.  You say you are listening with an open mind, but in the next breath you are antagonizing your opponents.  Would you want to sit down across the table with someone who talks down to you like you're a child?

Republicans have been lying through their teeth regarding their intents in Congress. "Laser-like focus on jobs", etc. Proof is there, they're trying a 42nd time to repeal a plan they created without putting a serious contender for a replacement, or an argument as to why it's so bad it needs repealing with the aforementioned laser-like effort (or lazer, if you prefer). If they came out and said they have a plan for the people to consider, and it was a serious, thought-out plan to help all Americans, it would be very easy to look at the plan without judgment for the offeree and at the very least see what their idea is. Nope, needs repealing, government shutdown looming but still pushing "priorities" around, no serious budget balancing discussions to be had.


I'll take your argument about everything bad Republicans have done prima facie.  Just don't tell me how open minded you are and how willing you are to listen to their points of view while making that argument, ok?
 
2013-09-18 01:23:43 PM  

Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.

I feel so dirty for doing this, but:

Have you somehow missed the fact that many of your so-called left extremists have countered that point in this very thread and said (for instance) they would support single-payer heartily if put forth by the GOP?

I count myself among them.  I'm a fanboi, but I can applaud when the other side gets something right.

You're trenchant observation reeks of confirmation bias.


I thought you told me you had read this thread, and here I find you setting up more straw men.  I am pretty sure I applauded the democrats who said they would be thrilled if the GOP put forward ObamaCare as their own.  It's not them I have a problem with, is it?  It's the extremist who give example after example of why they should feel justified being against any GOP proposal regardless of its content.
 
2013-09-18 01:24:01 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Lucky LaRue: mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.

The sad thing is that all the liberals would immediately start screaming about how bad the bill was for the country.

Yeah, you know how liberals think!

/No, you don't, you are hallucinating.


Define "liberal."
And no, "Someone who disagrees with me" doesn't count.
 
2013-09-18 01:24:55 PM  

d23: Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.

I feel so dirty for doing this, but:

Have you somehow missed the fact that many of your so-called left extremists have countered that point in this very thread and said (for instance) they would support single-payer heartily if put forth by the GOP?

I count myself among them.  I'm a fanboi, but I can applaud when the other side gets something right.

You're trenchant observation reeks of confirmation bias.

Right now I am considered a dirty leftist because I think that every idea (or lack of) of the GOP is total crap.

Again, being a "leftist" to these folks means I don't agree with their point of view in lockstep.


No, you are a "leftist" because you think "every idea (or lack of) of the GOP is total crap".
 
2013-09-18 01:24:55 PM  

d23: Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.

I feel so dirty for doing this, but:

Have you somehow missed the fact that many of your so-called left extremists have countered that point in this very thread and said (for instance) they would support single-payer heartily if put forth by the GOP?

I count myself among them.  I'm a fanboi, but I can applaud when the other side gets something right.

You're trenchant observation reeks of confirmation bias.

Right now I am considered a dirty leftist because I think that every idea (or lack of) of the GOP is total crap.

Again, being a "leftist" to these folks means I don't agree with their point of view in lockstep.


You think every idea the GOP has is total crap and you think they call you a leftist for merely not marching in lockstep?

Errrm. Does believing both of those at the same time ever make your brain itch?
 
2013-09-18 01:25:03 PM  
My strong suspicion is that Rep. Scalise is not in fact some kind of public policy prodigy

unfortunately he is my representative and i can attest to the above. he is a lock step republican who now courts the tea party as well. he's all about spouting the current line -- period. why he got put forward on this is a mystery.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-09-18 01:25:45 PM  

Lucky LaRue: I'll take your argument about everything bad Republicans have done prima facie. Just don't tell me how open minded you are and how willing you are to listen to their points of view while making that argument, ok?


People in the U.S. have been doing NOTHING BUT listening the GOP point of view since Obama was elected.  I don't think I'm only speaking for myself when I say I've listened to their opinions out the ying yang.  I don't agree with their opinions, especially since their point of view is locked up in doing absolutely nothing but protecting their buddies right now.  The positions on GOP are lacking in facts and just plain humanity at this point in history.  Listening to the GOP point of view, despite their constant whine to contrary, doesn't automatically mean they win the day.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-09-18 01:26:38 PM  

Lucky LaRue: d23: Deucednuisance: Lucky LaRue: My only observation is that both extremists (left and right) are bad for the country, and they will disagree with their own ideas if the other side puts it forward.

I feel so dirty for doing this, but:

Have you somehow missed the fact that many of your so-called left extremists have countered that point in this very thread and said (for instance) they would support single-payer heartily if put forth by the GOP?

I count myself among them.  I'm a fanboi, but I can applaud when the other side gets something right.

You're trenchant observation reeks of confirmation bias.

Right now I am considered a dirty leftist because I think that every idea (or lack of) of the GOP is total crap.

Again, being a "leftist" to these folks means I don't agree with their point of view in lockstep.

No, you are a "leftist" because you think "every idea (or lack of) of the GOP is total crap".


The "...right now" was implied.  Sorry that you're unable to see that.
 
2013-09-18 01:27:26 PM  

Close2TheEdge: Lucky LaRue: Solid Muldoon: Republican Plan: If we just stop feeding old people and giving them medicine, they'll die off. Social Security and Health Care saved! It's a win/win!

I'm curious.. do you really believe the Republicans want to kill off America's elderly?

The poor ones? I don't think too many tears would be shed by the GOP. When you promote policies with that very purpose at the core, you can't claim ignorance later.


I recall the GOP crowd cheered at a primary debate when "LET HIM DIE" was shouted during a debate surrounding a hypothetical coma patient with no insurance.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-09-18 01:28:05 PM  

Ned Stark: You think every idea the GOP has is total crap and you think they call you a leftist for merely not marching in lockstep?

Errrm. Does believing both of those at the same time ever make your brain itch?


I think their ideas are bad right now.  That doesn't imply I think every "leftist" idea is good either.  It looks like you're the one with the two sided thinking, not me.
 
2013-09-18 01:28:44 PM  

FlashHarry: point of order: obamacare - and specifically, the individual mandate - IS a conservative idea, having originated at the heritage foundation in the 1990s.


That is double-bad speak.  We have always been at war with Eastasia.
 
2013-09-18 01:32:19 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Lucky LaRue: mediablitz: Offer the same thing. Call it something different. Claim victory.

The sad thing is that all the liberals would immediately start screaming about how bad the bill was for the country.

Yeah, you know how liberals think!

/No, you don't, you are hallucinating.

Define "liberal."
And no, "Someone who disagrees with me" doesn't count.


The ideological core of the Democratic party. Generally desire a free market with limited government intervention, preserving the new deal, aggressive forigen policy, and making exclusionary social institutions more inclusive(e.g. gay marriage)
 
2013-09-18 01:32:36 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Close2TheEdge: Lucky LaRue: Solid Muldoon: Republican Plan: If we just stop feeding old people and giving them medicine, they'll die off. Social Security and Health Care saved! It's a win/win!

I'm curious.. do you really believe the Republicans want to kill off America's elderly?

The poor ones? I don't think too many tears would be shed by the GOP. When you promote policies with that very purpose at the core, you can't claim ignorance later.


It's very hard to compromise with people when they think you want to kill their grandma.  I don't understand how the extreme left can't see that, or is it's sole purpose just a foil to the extreme right?  If so, that's cool, just don't expect people to respect your opinions.

I recall the GOP crowd cheered at a primary debate when "LET HIM DIE" was shouted during a debate surrounding a hypothetical coma patient with no insurance.

Well, yeah.  Those would be the bat-shiat insane tea baggers I've been comparing the extreme left to.  I seem to recall members of the GOP (both on stage and in the audience) cringing at the applause and cheering.
 
2013-09-18 01:32:40 PM  
 
2013-09-18 01:34:49 PM  
"We're going to continue to do everything we can to repeal the president's failed health care law," Boehner said.

I love how something the GOP has desperately tried (partially successfully) to delay can, at the same time, be declared a "failed" law.
 
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