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(Washington Post)   Don't look now Reds fans, but the Washington Nationals are only four games out the wild card. Who Dey?   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, reds, Atlanta Braves, wild cards, Craig Kimbrel, Ian Desmond, Adam LaRoche, Denard Span, moment of silence  
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263 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Sep 2013 at 11:05 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-18 11:02:41 AM  
And the Cardinals are set to take the division, just as I predicted.

/Book it, done.
 
2013-09-18 11:16:07 AM  
Unfortunately, despite being the best team in baseball over the last six weeks, there just isn't enough time left.

NL Standings, beginning August 5

Tm W L W-L% GB RS RA

WAS 27 12 .692 --  205 144
CIN 25 15 .625 2.5 179 131
LAD 25 15 .625 2.5 175 132
STL 23 17 .575 4.5 177 164
ATL 21 17 .553 5.5 129 119


Hell, they could catch Atlanta if they had another three weeks.
 
2013-09-18 11:18:22 AM  
Not the Bengals, last I checked.
 
2013-09-18 11:19:48 AM  
I forgot to include the Pirates

Since August 5

PIT 20 20 .500 7.5 150 165
 
2013-09-18 11:24:54 AM  
I have been pulling for the Reds in the NL for the last few year so I hope they dont blow it.
 
2013-09-18 11:26:04 AM  
4.5 actually.  Which means they have to win the game-in-hand they're holding to make it 4.  Also, 4 games is a lot to make up with only 11 left to play.  They're gonna need 'help' from the Reds.  Even if the Nats run the table, 11-0 (unlikely) they'll have 92 wins.  That would mean the Reds would have to go 6-4 in their remaining 10 to force a tie, or 7-3 to clinch.  Not liking the odds, but stranger things have happened.
 
2013-09-18 11:32:44 AM  
As a Reds fan, I have a good feeling the Nationals will clinch the last playoff spot. Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.
 
2013-09-18 11:34:19 AM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: 4.5 actually.  Which means they have to win the game-in-hand they're holding to make it 4.  Also, 4 games is a lot to make up with only 11 left to play.  They're gonna need 'help' from the Reds.  Even if the Nats run the table, 11-0 (unlikely) they'll have 92 wins.  That would mean the Reds would have to go 6-4 in their remaining 10 to force a tie, or 7-3 to clinch.  Not liking the odds, but stranger things have happened.


Reds and Pirates play each other 6 times. If one of those teams dominates the other, Nats could easily pass the loser. If they split, Nats have no shot
 
2013-09-18 11:36:33 AM  
Reds have 6 games left to play against the Pirates, one against the 'Stros and three against the Metropolitans.  I think the Reds hang on.

/Fire Dusty Baker.
 
2013-09-18 11:38:13 AM  

Lost Thought 00: AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: 4.5 actually.  Which means they have to win the game-in-hand they're holding to make it 4.  Also, 4 games is a lot to make up with only 11 left to play.  They're gonna need 'help' from the Reds.  Even if the Nats run the table, 11-0 (unlikely) they'll have 92 wins.  That would mean the Reds would have to go 6-4 in their remaining 10 to force a tie, or 7-3 to clinch.  Not liking the odds, but stranger things have happened.

Reds and Pirates play each other 6 times. If one of those teams dominates the other, Nats could easily pass the loser. If they split, Nats have no shot


That's pretty much it.  Reds and Pirates simply need to split those six games and both teams should be gold.
 
2013-09-18 11:38:14 AM  

Funk Brothers: As a Reds fan, I have a good feeling the Nationals will clinch the last playoff spot. Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.


Wow.  Aren't you the pessimist.
 
2013-09-18 11:49:54 AM  

Funk Brothers: Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.


I think we just found the Fark login of Neifi Perez.
 
2013-09-18 11:50:31 AM  
But at least we got Buttslide. There will always be that.
 
2013-09-18 11:52:36 AM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Funk Brothers: As a Reds fan, I have a good feeling the Nationals will clinch the last playoff spot. Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.

Wow.  Aren't you the pessimist.


I would rather not want to see the Reds get sued by the NAACP after firing Dusty. Keeping Dusty around as manager is the only reason the NAACP has not gone after the Reds yet. If this firing happens, Selig will tell Bob Castellini, the owner to reinstate Dusty or expect a lawsuit from the NAACP.

I wished the Reds would hire Ozzie Guillen as manager.
 
2013-09-18 11:54:17 AM  

Funk Brothers: AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: Funk Brothers: As a Reds fan, I have a good feeling the Nationals will clinch the last playoff spot. Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.

Wow.  Aren't you the pessimist.

I would rather not want to see the Reds get sued by the NAACP after firing Dusty. Keeping Dusty around as manager is the only reason the NAACP has not gone after the Reds yet. If this firing happens, Selig will tell Bob Castellini, the owner to reinstate Dusty or expect a lawsuit from the NAACP.

I wished the Reds would hire Ozzie Guillen as manager.


....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.
 
2013-09-18 12:01:38 PM  

Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.


Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.
 
2013-09-18 12:07:17 PM  

Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.


I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.
 
2013-09-18 12:10:36 PM  

Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.


Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.
 
2013-09-18 12:11:30 PM  

Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.


There's Marge Schott.  I wasn't aware of anything after Marge Schott.
 
2013-09-18 12:14:08 PM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: 4.5 actually.  Which means they have to win the game-in-hand they're holding to make it 4.  Also, 4 games is a lot to make up with only 11 left to play.  They're gonna need 'help' from the Reds.  Even if the Nats run the table, 11-0 (unlikely) they'll have 92 wins.  That would mean the Reds would have to go 6-4 in their remaining 10 to force a tie, or 7-3 to clinch.  Not liking the odds, but stranger things have happened.


Yeah, folks seem to forget how difficult it is to make up 4+ games in 2 weeks. More or less, the central teams have a magic number of 7 to clinch a play in game.

If the Reds even just go .500 during this stretch, they will reduce the magic number to 2. If the Nats happen to lose just a couple of games (a 9-2 stretch is freaking amazing, btw and it would make them 18-3 to end the season).

Even though it seemingly happens all the time (it really doesn't), 4 game deficits are hard to overcome.
 
2013-09-18 12:15:00 PM  

Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.

Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.



Yeah, I know about Marge.  I would like to know about specific stories regarding Griffey and everything else.
 
2013-09-18 12:16:52 PM  

Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.

Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.


Yeah, I know about Marge.  I would like to know about specific stories regarding Griffey and everything else.


What did Griffey say? I know about Larkin, who after retirement decided to join the Nationals as a coach because the Reds at the time were a failing (and racist) organization in a city that had race riots a few years before (and this was during the Lindner era, not the Schott era).
 
2013-09-18 12:28:34 PM  

Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.

Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.


Your Honor, the woman who died nine years, and sold the team five years before that, was a racist. Therefore, my firing was obviously racially motivated.
 
2013-09-18 12:28:47 PM  

Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.

Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.


Schott called Dave Parker and Eric Davis her million dollar n-bongs. She was a turd bucket and a very strange lady.

However, she hasn't been in charge in Cincy since '99. Griffey didn't get their until 2000. I think it is more of a Marty Brennamen issue in Cincy than a black-white issue.

Marty crapped all over Dunn during his Cincy days (which mostly overlapped with Jr). My goodness, Joey Vatto is one of thr best hitters in the NL and based on some of the Cincy media stuff, you would think he was the debil for taking walks. The most popular player in town has to be Brandon Phillips and right now he is absurdly overrated.

Cincy has a "Chalie Hustle" problem, not a black-white problem. If you don't play like Pete Rose, you aren't a real ballplayer.
 
2013-09-18 12:32:06 PM  

Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.

Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.


Yeah, I know about Marge.  I would like to know about specific stories regarding Griffey and everything else.


Having Griffey Jr as a part of the team was terrific at first, but the deal went sour afterwards. He got injured, fans didn't like him when he came back from the DL because it forced a player(s) who turned out to be good got sent back to the minors or got traded. There were instances his family got ridiculed from fans in public.  I think one time Marty got into an argument with Griffey Jr in the clubhouse following a postgame which ended up in the paper. It was a disaster that forced GM Jim Bowden to be fired. We didn't win the division when he was there. Griffey was probably glad he finally got traded from the Reds in 2008. He didn't want to be under the microscope anymore in Cincinnati.
 
2013-09-18 12:39:24 PM  
So they'll be sitting Strasburg down pretty soon then?
 
2013-09-18 12:44:30 PM  

ladodger34: My goodness, Joey Vatto is one of thr best hitters in the NL and based on some of the Cincy media stuff, you would think he was the debil for taking walks.


I'm sad that a Google News search for "clogging up the bases" does not reveal recent examples of retarded criticism of Votto.  I was looking forward to reading those.

Votto's about to lead the NL in OBP for the fourth year in a row.  For five years running, he's top ten in the NL in AVG, OBP, and SLG.  And somehow he manages to fly under the radar.  Maybe he should say something dumb on Twitter.
 
2013-09-18 12:48:28 PM  

ladodger34: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.

Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.

Schott called Dave Parker and Eric Davis her million dollar n-bongs. She was a turd bucket and a very strange lady.

However, she hasn't been in charge in Cincy since '99. Griffey didn't get their until 2000. I think it is more of a Marty Brennamen issue in Cincy than a black-white issue.

Marty crapped all over Dunn during his Cincy days (which mostly overlapped with Jr). My goodness, Joey Vatto is one of thr best hitters in the NL and based on some of the Cincy media stuff, you would think he was the debil for taking walks. The most popular player in town has to be Brandon Phillips and right now he is absurdly overrated.

Cincy has a "Chalie Hustle" problem, not a black-white problem. If you don't play like Pete Rose, you aren't a real ballplayer.


Brandon Phillips might be the most overrated player in baseball.  He's good.  He's a decent offensive player, though he's 32 and trending downwards.  He's very good defensively, but not quite as amazing as he's made out to be.  He makes some amazing and unique plays, but his range is only very good, and as mentioned, he's 32 and trending downwards.

But if you watched the allstar game this year, you'd swear he was, by far, the top player in the NL.  The announcers just wouldn't stop gushing about him.
 
2013-09-18 12:49:21 PM  

Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: Funk Brothers: Gunny Highway: ....I must be ignorant to a lot of things going on in the Reds organization.

Yeah just ask Ken Griffey Jr about his mistreatment during his tenure at the Reds. It was terrible. The Reds organization and their fans have not been kind to their African American players for years.

I need to specific examples if you are going to say stuff like that.

Marge Schott called two players million dollar n-words. It's been going on for the last 20 years.


Yeah, I know about Marge.  I would like to know about specific stories regarding Griffey and everything else.

Having Griffey Jr as a part of the team was terrific at first, but the deal went sour afterwards. He got injured, fans didn't like him when he came back from the DL because it forced a player(s) who turned out to be good got sent back to the minors or got traded. There were instances his family got ridiculed from fans in public.  I think one time Marty got into an argument with Griffey Jr in the clubhouse following a postgame which ended up in the paper. It was a disaster that forced GM Jim Bowden to be fired. We didn't win the division when he was there. Griffey was probably glad he finally got traded from the Reds in 2008. He didn't want to be under the microscope anymore in Cincinnati.


That's racist?
 
2013-09-18 12:50:52 PM  

chimp_ninja: ladodger34: My goodness, Joey Vatto is one of thr best hitters in the NL and based on some of the Cincy media stuff, you would think he was the debil for taking walks.

I'm sad that a Google News search for "clogging up the bases" does not reveal recent examples of retarded criticism of Votto.  I was looking forward to reading those.

Votto's about to lead the NL in OBP for the fourth year in a row.  For five years running, he's top ten in the NL in AVG, OBP, and SLG.  And somehow he manages to fly under the radar.  Maybe he should say something dumb on Twitter.


Nobody actually notices Cincinnati and Votto doesn't hit enough home runs to catch any eyes.

It's a shame, really.  I saw some stat about how Votto hadn't popped up like ever.  According to Tom Verducci, as of June 2012:

Votto has not popped up to the infield all season. In fact, he has popped out to the infield only three times in 2,138 plate appearances over the past four seasons.

Votto has pulled a ball foul into the stands only once in his entire major league career. Once.


What IS that?
 
2013-09-18 12:58:14 PM  
ladodger34:
Marty crapped all over Dunn during his Cincy days (which mostly overlapped with Jr). My goodness, Joey Vatto is one of thr best hitters in the NL and based on some of the Cincy media stuff, you would think he was the debil for taking walks. The most popular player in town has to be Brandon Phillips and right now he is absurdly overrated.

Yes, people did not like Dunn because he strikes out too much.  Same reason we hate Drew Stubbs and even people are grumbling about Jay Bruce.  If you strike out 175+ times per season in Cincinnati, the fans are going to start grumbling.  Wrong or right, that's baseball here.

Votto is one of the best hitters in baseball and some idiots here are getting grumpy that the power numbers are down a little bit.  Don't let the voices of a few and a couple dumb talk show hosts get your dander up, Joey is the MVP of this team.

BP is the most popular person on the team because he plays with passion.  He's excited, he's happy, he wants to win and he's really good.  people love the flash and the smile, they love the behind the back throws, acrobatic fielding and butt-tagging.  I disagree that BP is overrated, though.  The dude is a magician with the glove and bats above average.  he should be a gold glove lock in and perennial all star, but it seems he has to get wiggled into those awards.  But, really, people love Phillips because he called the Cards a bunch of biatches and the fandom loved it.  i loved it.  It makes me smile now.  That's the passion we, as Reds fans want, that's what Rose gave us.
 
2013-09-18 01:07:43 PM  
Is this now a "Cincinnati is a racist city!" thread?

I love those....

/go Nats
//maybe they'll fire Dusty's sorry ass if he pisses this away.
 
2013-09-18 01:11:49 PM  

Kygz: BP is the most popular person on the team because he plays with passion. He's excited, he's happy, he wants to win and he's really good. people love the flash and the smile, they love the behind the back throws, acrobatic fielding and butt-tagging. I disagree that BP is overrated, though. The dude is a magician with the glove and bats above average. he should be a gold glove lock in and perennial all star, but it seems he has to get wiggled into those awards. But, really, people love Phillips because he called the Cards a bunch of biatches and the fandom loved it. i loved it. It makes me smile now. That's the passion we, as Reds fans want, that's what Rose gave us.


Dude'shiatting 264.  Slash of 264/311/408.  Career slash of 272/320/430.  That's not much better than pedestrian, especially in such a good hitter's park.

He is good defensively.  Gold Gloves are a crapshoot (watch Simmons not win one this year) but he's solidly behind Chase Utley.  Who has zero Gold Gloves, because Gold Glove voting is the worst.
 
2013-09-18 01:20:51 PM  
I have no problem with the Nationals but they cannot lose enough for me as long as Rizzo and Strasburg are there.
 
2013-09-18 01:22:00 PM  
BTW, thanks MLB for this second wild-card spot.  Instead of a three way race in the central to see who wins the division, who wins the wild card, and who goes home we have a three way race to see who wins the division and which two teams get into a contrived single-elimination game.

We also get treated to articles about teams not even knowing WTF to do once the clinch a playoff spot.

1.  Celebrate when clinching a spot?
2.  Hold out and then celebrate if you clinch the division?
3.  Celebrate, then celebrate some more if you clinch the division?

I liked the introduction of the wild card.  I like the introduction of inter-league play.  I liked making inter-league year round so the divisions and leagues could be balanced.  But this second wild card is only slightly less gimmiky and farked up than having Eddie Gaedel take at bats.  I farking hate it.
 
2013-09-18 01:24:06 PM  

Kygz: Yes, people did not like Dunn because he strikes out too much. Same reason we hate Drew Stubbs and even people are grumbling about Jay Bruce. If you strike out 175+ times per season in Cincinnati, the fans are going to start grumbling. Wrong or right, that's baseball here.


For the record, Chris Davis now has 184 strikeouts this season.

So.... they're wrong.  Look at the career leaders in strikeouts.  3 of the top 12 are in the Hall of Fame, and several more would be if they were eligible and/or didn't have off-the-field problems.  They're not very different from other kinds of outs, and they're especially not a concern if the reason you're racking up strikeouts is because you're very selective and take a lot of pitches.
 
2013-09-18 01:24:24 PM  

Dafatone: Dude'shiatting 264. Slash of 264/311/408. Career slash of 272/320/430. That's not much better than pedestrian, especially in such a good hitter's park.


for 2B?
 
2013-09-18 01:24:40 PM  

Dafatone: Kygz: BP is the most popular person on the team because he plays with passion. He's excited, he's happy, he wants to win and he's really good. people love the flash and the smile, they love the behind the back throws, acrobatic fielding and butt-tagging. I disagree that BP is overrated, though. The dude is a magician with the glove and bats above average. he should be a gold glove lock in and perennial all star, but it seems he has to get wiggled into those awards. But, really, people love Phillips because he called the Cards a bunch of biatches and the fandom loved it. i loved it. It makes me smile now. That's the passion we, as Reds fans want, that's what Rose gave us.

Dude'shiatting 264.  Slash of 264/311/408.  Career slash of 272/320/430.  That's not much better than pedestrian, especially in such a good hitter's park.

He is good defensively.  Gold Gloves are a crapshoot (watch Simmons not win one this year) but he's solidly behind Chase Utley.  Who has zero Gold Gloves, because Gold Glove voting is the worst.


After looking at the numbers, BP is a solid defender.

Just for fun though, Mark Ellis has accumulated ~34 WAR in 11 seasons while Phillips has accumulated 24 in 12 seasons. Just for funsies, Utley has accumulated almost 58 WAR in 11 seasons.

Brandon Phillips is a really nice player to have on your team. He can play his position well and hit enough to be above average but he isn't the best 2B in the league, let alone the best player on his own team. He is overrated.

Now, would I mind seeing him play 2B for the Dodgers next season? Heck no, but he wouldn't even be close to the best player on the team.
 
2013-09-18 01:31:19 PM  

SlothB77: Dafatone: Dude'shiatting 264. Slash of 264/311/408. Career slash of 272/320/430. That's not much better than pedestrian, especially in such a good hitter's park.

for 2B?


Yeah.  Pedestrian is harsh, but his career OPS+ is 96.  Add in his baserunning, and he's certainly one of the better offensive players at 2B in the league, reflected by his 18.7 oWAR (I know, I know, baseball-reference's WAR is inferior, but it's working here.)

But that's still... kinda meh.  He's been around 12 seasons, but three of those were for a total of 23 games.  So he's somewhere around 2.something oWAR a season.  Maybe 2 flat.  Which is nice, sure, but it's nothing to get excited about.

He's a good player to have, and would make a lot of teams better.  But he's certainly no better than good, even if he makes the occasional eye-popping barehanded play.
 
2013-09-18 01:34:34 PM  
You guys quit talking crap about the Shawn Kemp of Cincinnati.  He's all class.
 
2013-09-18 01:49:05 PM  

Dafatone: SlothB77: Dafatone: Dude'shiatting 264. Slash of 264/311/408. Career slash of 272/320/430. That's not much better than pedestrian, especially in such a good hitter's park.

for 2B?

Yeah.  Pedestrian is harsh, but his career OPS+ is 96.  Add in his baserunning, and he's certainly one of the better offensive players at 2B in the league, reflected by his 18.7 oWAR (I know, I know, baseball-reference's WAR is inferior, but it's working here.)

But that's still... kinda meh.  He's been around 12 seasons, but three of those were for a total of 23 games.  So he's somewhere around 2.something oWAR a season.  Maybe 2 flat.  Which is nice, sure, but it's nothing to get excited about.

He's a good player to have, and would make a lot of teams better.  But he's certainly no better than good, even if he makes the occasional eye-popping barehanded play.


I won't crap on BP anymore, but baseball reference and fan graphs did come to a consensus on WAR the other day.

Oh, and a 2+ WAR player is a nice piece to have on your team evey year.

Okay, I will crap on Phillips a tiny bit more. His WAR this year is 1.8. Adrian Gonzalez is at 3.7 and WAR is harsh on 1B because of the defensive adjustments. At least this year, BP just isn't that great offensively.
 
2013-09-18 01:56:43 PM  

ladodger34: Dafatone: SlothB77: Dafatone: Dude'shiatting 264. Slash of 264/311/408. Career slash of 272/320/430. That's not much better than pedestrian, especially in such a good hitter's park.

for 2B?

Yeah.  Pedestrian is harsh, but his career OPS+ is 96.  Add in his baserunning, and he's certainly one of the better offensive players at 2B in the league, reflected by his 18.7 oWAR (I know, I know, baseball-reference's WAR is inferior, but it's working here.)

But that's still... kinda meh.  He's been around 12 seasons, but three of those were for a total of 23 games.  So he's somewhere around 2.something oWAR a season.  Maybe 2 flat.  Which is nice, sure, but it's nothing to get excited about.

He's a good player to have, and would make a lot of teams better.  But he's certainly no better than good, even if he makes the occasional eye-popping barehanded play.

I won't crap on BP anymore, but baseball reference and fan graphs did come to a consensus on WAR the other day.

Oh, and a 2+ WAR player is a nice piece to have on your team evey year.

Okay, I will crap on Phillips a tiny bit more. His WAR this year is 1.8. Adrian Gonzalez is at 3.7 and WAR is harsh on 1B because of the defensive adjustments. At least this year, BP just isn't that great offensively.


He's only 32, so while it looks like he's declining, he could still pick up.

Since 2007, his WAR (b-r) has been 3.9, 3.0, 2.8, 4.1, 4.9, 3.8, 1.5.  That's a 3.4 average.  He's been a good to very good player over this stretch.  But no better than very good, and like I said, had you watched the allstar game without knowing much about anyone, you'd think he was the clear-cut best position player in the NL.
 
2013-09-18 02:06:34 PM  

AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: 4.5 actually.  Which means they have to win the game-in-hand they're holding to make it 4.  Also, 4 games is a lot to make up with only 11 left to play.  They're gonna need 'help' from the Reds.  Even if the Nats run the table, 11-0 (unlikely) they'll have 92 wins.  That would mean the Reds would have to go 6-4 in their remaining 10 to force a tie, or 7-3 to clinch.  Not liking the odds, but stranger things have happened.


I hate that your right.

/Go Nats
//Even if they dont make the playoffs they will still be good next year.
///History says that the Pirates are in for an epic collapse.
 
2013-09-18 02:23:22 PM  

Dafatone: ladodger34: Dafatone: SlothB77: Dafatone: Dude'shiatting 264. Slash of 264/311/408. Career slash of 272/320/430. That's not much better than pedestrian, especially in such a good hitter's park.

for 2B?

Yeah.  Pedestrian is harsh, but his career OPS+ is 96.  Add in his baserunning, and he's certainly one of the better offensive players at 2B in the league, reflected by his 18.7 oWAR (I know, I know, baseball-reference's WAR is inferior, but it's working here.)

But that's still... kinda meh.  He's been around 12 seasons, but three of those were for a total of 23 games.  So he's somewhere around 2.something oWAR a season.  Maybe 2 flat.  Which is nice, sure, but it's nothing to get excited about.

He's a good player to have, and would make a lot of teams better.  But he's certainly no better than good, even if he makes the occasional eye-popping barehanded play.

I won't crap on BP anymore, but baseball reference and fan graphs did come to a consensus on WAR the other day.

Oh, and a 2+ WAR player is a nice piece to have on your team evey year.

Okay, I will crap on Phillips a tiny bit more. His WAR this year is 1.8. Adrian Gonzalez is at 3.7 and WAR is harsh on 1B because of the defensive adjustments. At least this year, BP just isn't that great offensively.

He's only 32, so while it looks like he's declining, he could still pick up.

Since 2007, his WAR (b-r) has been 3.9, 3.0, 2.8, 4.1, 4.9, 3.8, 1.5.  That's a 3.4 average.  He's been a good to very good player over this stretch.  But no better than very good, and like I said, had you watched the allstar game without knowing much about anyone, you'd think he was the clear-cut best position player in the NL.


Like I said, if the Dodgrs grabed a player like Philips, it would be a great move. However, he would be about the 4th or 5th best player on the team (not counting Kershaw or Greinke).

Of course, if BP is your 4th or 5th everyday player than things are looking pretty rosy for that organization.
 
2013-09-18 03:18:48 PM  

Gunny Highway: I have been pulling for the Reds in the NL for the last few year so I hope they dont blow it.


Maybe Phillips will actually listen to his 3rd base coach this year.
 
2013-09-18 03:19:30 PM  

Funk Brothers: As a Reds fan, I have a good feeling the Nationals will clinch the last playoff spot. Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.


You've got to be kidding me.
 
2013-09-18 04:20:30 PM  

Funk Brothers: As a Reds fan, I have a good feeling the Nationals will clinch the last playoff spot. Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.


We've found the one person on Earth who thinks Dusty is a good manager
 
2013-09-18 04:24:35 PM  

Moopy Mac: You've got to be kidding me.


I'm pretty sure it's not a joke.  Baker's kid has to be about 15, and judging by the Politics Tab that's more than old enough to have a Fark ID.

Kidding aside, this has to be the first time I've seen an actual Baker supporter...aside from fans of teams that he manages against.
 
2013-09-18 04:42:22 PM  

machoprogrammer: Funk Brothers: As a Reds fan, I have a good feeling the Nationals will clinch the last playoff spot. Though Reds better keep Dusty and not fire him. I actually would want Dusty to keep managing until the day he dies for the Reds. He's been good manager.

We've found the one person on Earth who thinks Dusty is a good manager


This might be a 10/10 troll.  It was a 9/10 until the typo in the last sentence.

"Until the day he dies"
 
2013-09-18 05:17:56 PM  

Kygz: ladodger34:
Marty crapped all over Dunn during his Cincy days (which mostly overlapped with Jr). My goodness, Joey Vatto is one of thr best hitters in the NL and based on some of the Cincy media stuff, you would think he was the debil for taking walks. The most popular player in town has to be Brandon Phillips and right now he is absurdly overrated.

Yes, people did not like Dunn because he strikes out too much.  Same reason we hate Drew Stubbs and even people are grumbling about Jay Bruce.  If you strike out 175+ times per season in Cincinnati, the fans are going to start grumbling.  Wrong or right, that's baseball here.

Votto is one of the best hitters in baseball and some idiots here are getting grumpy that the power numbers are down a little bit.  Don't let the voices of a few and a couple dumb talk show hosts get your dander up, Joey is the MVP of this team.

BP is the most popular person on the team because he plays with passion.  He's excited, he's happy, he wants to win and he's really good.  people love the flash and the smile, they love the behind the back throws, acrobatic fielding and butt-tagging.  I disagree that BP is overrated, though.  The dude is a magician with the glove and bats above average.  he should be a gold glove lock in and perennial all star, but it seems he has to get wiggled into those awards.  But, really, people love Phillips because he called the Cards a bunch of biatches and the fandom loved it.  i loved it.  It makes me smile now.  That's the passion we, as Reds fans want, that's what Rose gave us.


There's a bit of a disconnect between what Cincinnati fans (and media) like to watch and what actually wins baseball games.  Charlie Hustle and the Big Red Machine made that problem worse in Cincy than in other places, perhaps.

That said, BP is damned entertaining to watch at second base, and can definitely "work the room" with the media.  I enjoy his work as much as anybody I've seen play the position, though I know I was watching better when I was watching Joe Morgan flap his elbow before each pitch.

Votto, of course, already has the "face of the franchise for the next decade" contract that Clown Question Bro ought to get this offseason from the Nats.  So when he has a bad week, it's all over the media, and I think he's still learning to keep that out of his head.

And on the actual topic - check back in after the weekend.  I figure the Nats will be pushing the Pirates by then, or nowhere at all.  We'll know by then how well Dusty Baker has prepared his team for this moment. [wince]
 
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