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(Al Jazeera)   Democrat dreams: Texas, where everything is bigger and bluer   (america.aljazeera.com) divider line 73
    More: Unlikely, Battleground Texas, Democrats, Obama, Texas House, voting power, Civil Rights Act, swing states, firearms licence  
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1197 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Sep 2013 at 8:07 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-18 08:10:17 AM
We can rely on teabaggers for the assist. Won't be long now.
 
2013-09-18 08:10:57 AM
Time keeps on slipping... slipping... slipping... into the future.
 
2013-09-18 08:13:15 AM
And I'd like to see a Progressive president. But I probably won't live that long.
 
2013-09-18 08:16:49 AM
Hey guys, you still have Jefferson county and the border!
 
2013-09-18 08:20:38 AM
A Texas turning Democratic story, and reported in Aljazeera? Is this some kind of troll bait?
 
2013-09-18 08:20:56 AM
Doesn't this have more to do with Texas getting browner?  Can't wait for 2050 and the American Maillard Reaction to be complete, revealing a tastier America.
 
2013-09-18 08:25:25 AM
Latinos' share of the voting-eligible population is just too low -- 26 percent versus the 57 percent of the electorate that is white

And why Democrats oppose voter ID-so they can get those non-eligible undocumented democrats voting.

Under the new law, conceal-carry gun licenses are an acceptable form of ID at the polls; student ID cards are not.

You do not have to be a citizen/eligible voter to get a student ID.
 
2013-09-18 08:26:06 AM

Schroedinger's Glory Hole: Doesn't this have more to do with Texas getting browner?  Can't wait for 2050 and the American Maillard Reaction to be complete, revealing a tastier America.


I see what you.....hmmmmm
 
2013-09-18 08:33:30 AM
It would be awesome if they can pull it off.  Texas has a lot of good things going for it, if the conservative political climate could be fixed it might be a darn appealing place to live.

Florida has also been trending more blue lately.  If the Democrats can push Florida over the edge into solidly blue, and turn Texas, those combined with NY and CA will give them over half of the votes needed for a presidential election on their own.

Of course, winning the state legislature so that voter suppression measures and gerrymandered districts can be addressed is possibly even more important.  As we've learned from the last several years when the opposition party holds at least half of Congress, it effectively ties the hands of the government and prevents much of anything worthwhile from getting done.
 
2013-09-18 08:39:27 AM

hasty ambush: You do not have to be a citizen/eligible voter to get a student ID.


You don't have to be a citizen to get a CCW permit either.  I have a green card, could get a CCW permit, cannot vote.

The difference is that gun permits are issued by the government while student IDs are issued by private entities.  As long as any government-issued photo ID works, I'm actually OK with that.
 
2013-09-18 08:43:04 AM
Keep dreaming.  New voting laws coming in 3...2....1....
 
2013-09-18 08:46:04 AM

TuteTibiImperes: It would be awesome if they can pull it off.


There's still a few counties that don't include a part of Austin yet.
 
2013-09-18 08:49:32 AM

DemonEater: The difference is that gun permits are issued by the government while student IDs are issued by private entities.  As long as any government-issued photo ID works, I'm actually OK with that.


What about Student IDs issued by State colleges?
 
2013-09-18 08:49:44 AM
It may take 8-12 years for a more comprehensive shift... but it is doable.
 
2013-09-18 08:56:08 AM

DemonEater: hasty ambush: You do not have to be a citizen/eligible voter to get a student ID.

You don't have to be a citizen to get a CCW permit either.  I have a green card, could get a CCW permit, cannot vote.

The difference is that gun permits are issued by the government while student IDs are issued by private entities.  As long as any government-issued photo ID works, I'm actually OK with that.


True but you have to have a background check  and I doubt yo would risk you legal status green card by voting illegally
 
2013-09-18 08:57:32 AM

Schroedinger's Glory Hole: Doesn't this have more to do with Texas getting browner?  Can't wait for 2050 and the American Maillard Reaction to be complete, revealing a tastier America.


In part, but it also has to do with the blue cities getting bigger more quickly and the rural population shrinking. When Perry does things like court big tech businesses, they set up shop in Houston and Austin which attracts blue voters from out of state. Also, I can't imagine that the rural areas of Texas catching on fire every year combined with the underfunded fire departments does great things for attracting red votes.
 
2013-09-18 08:58:09 AM
Interestingly in the New Yorker a few months ago was an interview with the Republican leader of Tx, and he said that Tx was moving blue, and expected it to happen 'soon'. And when it happens, there will be no more Republican presidents because of electoral voting rules.

/Works for me.
 
2013-09-18 08:59:42 AM

Target Builder: DemonEater: The difference is that gun permits are issued by the government while student IDs are issued by private entities.  As long as any government-issued photo ID works, I'm actually OK with that.

What about Student IDs issued by State colleges?


Most Colleges Knowingly Admit Illegal Immigrants as Students
 
2013-09-18 09:01:45 AM

DemonEater: hasty ambush: You do not have to be a citizen/eligible voter to get a student ID.

You don't have to be a citizen to get a CCW permit either.  I have a green card, could get a CCW permit, cannot vote.

The difference is that gun permits are issued by the government while student IDs are issued by private entities.  As long as any government-issued photo ID works, I'm actually OK with that.


University of Houston, University of Houston-Clear Lake, University of Houston-Downtown, University of North Texas at Dallas, University of Houston-Victoria, University of North Texas, University of Texas at Arlington, University of Texas at Austin, University of Texas at Brownsville, University of Texas at Dallas, University of Texas at El Paso, University of Texas at San Antonio, University of Texas at Tyler, University of Texas of the Permian Basin, University of Texas-Pan American, Texas A&M International University, Texas A&M University, Texas A&M University-Commerce, Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi, Texas A&M University-San Antonio, Texas A&M University-Kingsville, Prairie View A&M University, Tarleton State University,
Texas A&M University-Texarkana, West Texas A&M University, Texas A&M University-Central Texas, Lamar University, Sam Houston State University, Sul Ross State University, Texas State University, Angelo State University, and Texas Tech University are all government entities that issue photo ID's.
 
2013-09-18 09:03:56 AM
It's just a matter of time before refugees from blue states flip it. Those type of folks bring their bad decision making skills with them. Same thing happened with Florida and Colorado.
 
2013-09-18 09:11:15 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Of course, winning the state legislature so that voter suppression measures and gerrymandered districts can be addressed is possibly even more important


Translation:  We have to figure a way for those undoucmented democrats to vote

Latinos' share of the voting-eligible population is just too low -- 26 percent versus the 57 percent of the electorate that is white
 
2013-09-18 09:11:57 AM

Disposable Rob: When Perry does things like court big tech businesses, they set up shop in Houston and Austin which attracts blue voters from out of state.


Hard to imagine Rick Perry not thinking things through like that
 
2013-09-18 09:16:01 AM

Mrbogey: It's just a matter of time before refugees from blue states flip it. Those type of folks bring their bad decision making skills with them. Same thing happened with Florida and Colorado.


Yeah, it's the Democratic transplants that keep electing moran Republicans into office
 
2013-09-18 09:19:36 AM

hasty ambush: Under the new law, conceal-carry gun licenses are an acceptable form of ID at the polls; student ID cards are not.

You do not have to be a citizen/eligible voter to get a student ID.


You don't have to be a citizen or an eligible voter to get a concealed carry license either.
 
2013-09-18 09:20:08 AM

hasty ambush: Latinos' share of the voting-eligible population is just too low -- 26 percent versus the 57 percent of the electorate that is white

And why Democrats oppose voter ID-so they can get those non-eligible undocumented democrats voting.


So you have something showing that Democrats were organizing efforts to get "non-eligible undocumented democrats" voting before voter ID laws were passed, I suppose?  Or are you talking out your ass again?

Under the new law, conceal-carry gun licenses are an acceptable form of ID at the polls; student ID cards are not.

You do not have to be a citizen/eligible voter to get a student ID.


Nor do you have to be one to get a concealed-carry license in Texas.  And that doesn't really matter, because they have rolls of eligible voters anyway.  The ID is allegedly check to see that you are who you say you are, so student IDs should be viable for that purpose, shouldn't they?
 
2013-09-18 09:25:14 AM
. . . discuss their party's future over chocolate cake and lemonade.

That's just gross, blechhhh.
 
2013-09-18 09:26:59 AM

hasty ambush: TuteTibiImperes: Of course, winning the state legislature so that voter suppression measures and gerrymandered districts can be addressed is possibly even more important

Translation:  We have to figure a way for those undoucmented democrats to vote

Latinos' share of the voting-eligible population is just too low -- 26 percent versus the 57 percent of the electorate that is white


Undocumented =/= voting-eligible, but I'm sure your disingenuous self knows this.
 
2013-09-18 09:30:11 AM

hasty ambush: TuteTibiImperes: Of course, winning the state legislature so that voter suppression measures and gerrymandered districts can be addressed is possibly even more important

Translation:  We have to figure a way for those undoucmented democrats to vote

Latinos' share of the voting-eligible population is just too low -- 26 percent versus the 57 percent of the electorate that is white


I'm all for an amnesty program combined with an expedited path to citizenship.  Not only will it be good for the economy, good for tax revenue, good for wages, and good on humanitarian grounds, it will certainly help create more eligible voters who are likely to vote democrat.

That doesn't mean I support voter fraud or illegals voting, nor does that mean that it's an actual problem.  In fact, in every study done on voter fraud, it's been determined that ineligible voters make up a statistically insignificant portion of the votes in any election - it happens so rarely that it doesn't change anything as it is.  Voter ID laws are not only an added level of bureaucracy to fix a problem that doesn't exist, they do harm actual legitimate voters who for various reasons can't produce the documents necessary to get an official ID.
 
2013-09-18 09:36:37 AM

PocketfullaSass: hasty ambush: TuteTibiImperes: Of course, winning the state legislature so that voter suppression measures and gerrymandered districts can be addressed is possibly even more important

Translation:  We have to figure a way for those undoucmented democrats to vote

Latinos' share of the voting-eligible population is just too low -- 26 percent versus the 57 percent of the electorate that is white

Undocumented =/= voting-eligible, but I'm sure your disingenuous self knows this.


Trolling troll is trolling, aren't you, Hasty?  Put him on ignore and you'll feel better about life.
 
2013-09-18 09:40:03 AM
This article....
i0.kym-cdn.com

People who honestly believe that Texas can turn blue or even purple need to leave Austin/Houston and drive out in any direction for 30 minutes and then talk to the locals.  Texas wont be getting any bluer in the next hundred years.
 
2013-09-18 09:43:24 AM
TuteTibiImperes:

I'm all for an amnesty program combined with an expedited path to citizenship . . . will it be good for the economy, good for tax revenue, good for wages, . . .


People really believe that?
 
2013-09-18 09:44:43 AM
I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by this.  Texas was a blue state for a long time until Ann Richards ruined it for the Democrats.  But, don't think that Texas going blue makes it blue like east coast or west coast blue.  Texas is packed full of democrat voting right wing religious fundies who are democrats because their parents were democrats, and democrats are the party of the working man.  It's a very odd thing.
 
2013-09-18 09:45:31 AM

orclover: This article....
[i0.kym-cdn.com image 200x197]

People who honestly believe that Texas can turn blue or even purple need to leave Austin/Houston and drive out in any direction for 30 minutes and then talk to the locals.  Texas wont be getting any bluer in the next hundred years.


And if you did the same thing in California, driving out of Los Angeles or San Francisco for 30 minutes, you'd get the same impression, despite the fact that it is, indeed, a reliably blue state.

The two fastest growing demographics in Texas are the urban population and minorities.  Neither one wants a single goddamn thing to do with the Republicans.  I'd say the idea of a purple Texas in the next couple of decades isn't all that far-fetched.
 
2013-09-18 09:46:31 AM

orclover: This article....
[i0.kym-cdn.com image 200x197]

People who honestly believe that Texas can turn blue or even purple need to leave Austin/Houston and drive out in any direction for 30 minutes and then talk to the locals.  Texas wont be getting any bluer in the next hundred years.


Seeing as the country has only existed for a few hundred years, that's a pretty certain claim.  Demographics can change very quickly, especially if you have a state that's trying to attract the kind of business that takes place in cities.  In general, the more densely populated a region is, the less likely it is to be ultra conservative.  If you concentrate enough people in cities, have enough minorities (who tend not to vote for parties that actively hate them), and attract enough out of state edumacated people...  it's possible it could happen in less than 20 years.  And don't forget, of the people already in the state, about half are women and the GOP is actively waging war on female human rights in Texas.  You might not convince the 65 year old grannies that's a bad thing, but there are plenty of teens and twenty somethings who are going to be voting in the future.
 
2013-09-18 09:46:54 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: TuteTibiImperes:

I'm all for an amnesty program combined with an expedited path to citizenship . . . will it be good for the economy, good for tax revenue, good for wages, . . .


People really believe that?


So wait... you think having a permanent underclass that undercuts everybody else on wages is good for the economy?  Do you have no idea how markets work?
 
2013-09-18 09:50:40 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: TuteTibiImperes:

I'm all for an amnesty program combined with an expedited path to citizenship . . . will it be good for the economy, good for tax revenue, good for wages, . . .


People really believe that?


Yes, because it's true.

Right now the illegal immigrants here are using public services but many are not paying taxes to support them.  Amnesty and a path to citizenship would create increased tax revenue because these people would now be paying into the system.

Many employers take advantage of the immigration status of illegals to pay them lower wages than a full citizen would be paid, make them work longer hours, or make them work in conditions that would violate worker safety regulations.  This depresses wages for legitimate immigrants and citizens.  Giving the current illegal immigrants amnesty and a path to citizenship will reduce the leverage their employers have over them, which will raise wages and improve working conditions for everyone.
 
2013-09-18 09:59:44 AM
The people working to make Texas blue are doing a great service for the nation. Imagine the improvement in text books when Texas is no longer trying to rewrite history and eviscerate science. That alone with be a boon to the nation.
 
2013-09-18 10:00:46 AM

DeaH: The people working to make Texas blue are doing a great service for the nation. Imagine the improvement in text books when Texas is no longer trying to rewrite history and eviscerate science. That alone with be a boon to the nation.


It'll also force the federal GOP a few steps back towards reality if they want to ever see the presidency again.
 
2013-09-18 10:05:19 AM

orclover: This article....
[i0.kym-cdn.com image 200x197]

People who honestly believe that Texas can turn blue or even purple need to leave Austin/Houston and drive out in any direction for 30 minutes and then talk to the locals.  Texas wont be getting any bluer in the next hundred years.


Sure, the local yokels can continue to vote for cowboy representatives in their districts, but the concentrated populations in the urban areas will keep getting bigger and bluer.  That's going to tilt presidential elections.
 
2013-09-18 10:08:31 AM

tricycleracer: orclover: This article....
[i0.kym-cdn.com image 200x197]

People who honestly believe that Texas can turn blue or even purple need to leave Austin/Houston and drive out in any direction for 30 minutes and then talk to the locals.  Texas wont be getting any bluer in the next hundred years.

Sure, the local yokels can continue to vote for cowboy representatives in their districts, but the concentrated populations in the urban areas will keep getting bigger and bluer.  That's going to tilt presidential elections.


Rural areas are also getting browner. Once the Latino population in Texas learns that if they actually vote they can have representatives in government that do not openly despise them, the blue-ing of Texas will be completed.
 
2013-09-18 10:14:03 AM

HeartBurnKid: Zeb Hesselgresser: TuteTibiImperes:

I'm all for an amnesty program combined with an expedited path to citizenship . . . will it be good for the economy, good for tax revenue, good for wages, . . .


People really believe that?

So wait... you think having a permanent underclass that undercuts everybody else on wages is good for the economy?  Do you have no idea how markets work?


It doesn't have to be a pathway to citizenship, a work visa program would do just as well.  As for citizenship it should not be expedited.   They can get in line behind everybody who came here legally and are following the current path to citizenship which includes having a working knowledge of the English language
 
2013-09-18 10:16:00 AM
HeartBurnKid:   Do you have no idea how markets work?

Shall we start with the Market for Wages?

www.mikeonads.com
Don't move along the supply curve, just up and MOVE it outward, without a corresponding shift in the demand curve.  Where are your wages going?
 
2013-09-18 10:22:08 AM

hasty ambush: HeartBurnKid: Zeb Hesselgresser: TuteTibiImperes:

I'm all for an amnesty program combined with an expedited path to citizenship . . . will it be good for the economy, good for tax revenue, good for wages, . . .


People really believe that?

So wait... you think having a permanent underclass that undercuts everybody else on wages is good for the economy?  Do you have no idea how markets work?

It doesn't have to be a pathway to citizenship, a work visa program would do just as well.  As for citizenship it should not be expedited.   They can get in line behind everybody who came here legally and are following the current path to citizenship which includes having a working knowledge of the English language


First off, not if you're over 55, or if you're over 50 and lived in the US for 20 years.

Second, I don't think a work visa program would work out, considering most of them come here with no intentions of ever moving back to their home country.  Giving them a way to obtain a green card would be preferable, and would actually allow them to take the standard path to citizenship.
 
2013-09-18 10:23:00 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: HeartBurnKid:   Do you have no idea how markets work?

Shall we start with the Market for Wages?

[www.mikeonads.com image 373x367]
Don't move along the supply curve, just up and MOVE it outward, without a corresponding shift in the demand curve.  Where are your wages going?


The supply is already here.  Legitimizing the current illegal immigrants isn't going to increase the supply, it will just bring them under the same regulations and protections as everyone else.
 
2013-09-18 10:23:32 AM

hasty ambush: Target Builder: What about Student IDs issued by State colleges?

Most Colleges Knowingly Admit Illegal Immigrants as Students


Again, DOESN'T FARKING MATTER you disingenuous twat.

Just like CCW permits, a student ID doesn't mean you're eligible to vote.  It's just a picture ID to confirm identity when you turn up to vote, your presence on the voter registration roles means you're eligible to vote.

hasty ambush: TuteTibiImperes: Of course, winning the state legislature so that voter suppression measures and gerrymandered districts can be addressed is possibly even more important


Translation: We have to figure a way for those undoucmented democrats to vote

You tripped yourself up nicely here.

Because you also said in this thread, re me and my green card:
True but you have to have a background check  and I doubt yo would risk you legal status green card by voting illegally

Go on.  Show up at a polling place as an undocumented immigrant and see how quickly you end up in cuffs and deported.  Why would an illegal, who has to fly even further under the official radar to stay in this country, risk arrest and deportation to vote illegally any more than I would?
 
2013-09-18 10:23:42 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: HeartBurnKid:   Do you have no idea how markets work?

Shall we start with the Market for Wages?

[www.mikeonads.com image 373x367]
Don't move along the supply curve, just up and MOVE it outward, without a corresponding shift in the demand curve.  Where are your wages going?


It wouldn't do anything to the supply curve.  That supply is already here, and isn't going anywhere.  You don't seem to realize that.  What it would do is stop said supply from undercutting the competition.
 
2013-09-18 10:28:21 AM
HeartBurnKid: max_pooper: tricycleracer: Mercutio74:

The Texas latino population is exploding, but it would be very VERY optimistic to think that they wont fall more in line with the GoP than the democrats of Texas.  Texas republicans can see the statistics just as well as anybody else and you will notice a hellova lot more latino names with R's next to them in the state capital.  As for latino's breaking the voting block you are assuming you can get them to show up to vote at all en masse.  Also a "minority" supermajority is pointless with current redistricting maps.

But all of this is moot in the face of Texas Republicans greatest weapon, religious fanatics.  If you leave the cities you will start running into Texas's largest voting block, millions of white baptist rednecks.  If you arent from around here (and have actually visited these areas for years) you cant really wrap your mind around how many of them there actually are.  Also how fanatical they all are.  There are far more of them than you realize, and they ALL show up to vote for every damn election.  Not only to vote, but to contribute, to campaign.  They organize at their megachurches and every election they all pitch in.
They cant be reasoned with, they cant be stopped!!

Anyways yea maybe 100 years is a stretch, heh.  But Texas wont be turning much more blue in our lifetime.  My biggest worry is that Wendy Davis will run for Governor and destroy her career.  And if you think i'm talking as a card carrying republican then you need to know that I may be a pessimist, but I have also logged 20 years working Democratic campaigns and charities.  But I also have a lot of family around the state and it gives me a very depressing view of what the future of Texas politics will look like.

/my second biggest fear is that we may miss the steady, tempered, liberal hand of Rick Perry when we get a good look at what this next farker has in store for Texas.
 
2013-09-18 10:28:58 AM

hasty ambush: You do not have to be a citizen/eligible voter to get a student ID.


Verification of citizenship is part of the registration process. Showing ID at the polling place when voting proves your identity as the already registered voter, and thus that you are a citizen.

(Pedantic exception: it is possible for citizenship to be stripped. However, that's incredibly rare, usually involves deportation in a manner that prevents re-entry, and stricter ID seems unlikely to help detection of such. Certificate revocations are a hard problem.)

Some states allow same-day voting and registration; but as I understand, you have to bring proof-of-citizenship for the registration components.

(Exception: Wikipedia suggests ND has absolutely no requirements of advanced registration before voting. There, requiring proof of citizenship as well as proof of identity would seem quite appropriate.)

Click Click D'oh: Texas is packed full of democrat voting right wing religious fundies who are democrats because their parents were democrats, and democrats are the party of the working man. It's a very odd thing.


I'd suggest terming it a wing of the Democratic party that is "populist" rather than "progressive". If you're familiar with Altemeyer, "populists" would roughly correspond to low-SDO, high-RWA types; "progressives", the low-SDO, low-RWA types. I'd suggest the GOP splits between the "fundie whackaloon" high-SDO, high-RWA and "libertarian" high-SDO, low-RWA flavors. The high-RWA component makes the "populist" wing sometimes vote for GOP candidates (and tend relatively religious), while the low-RWA component makes some of the "libertarian" wing occasionally prefer a democrat when the GOP fields someone who's promising to gore the particular libertarian's pet ox.

If you're not familiar with Altemeyer, enjoy.
 
2013-09-18 10:33:21 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Zeb Hesselgresser: HeartBurnKid:   Do you have no idea how markets work?

Shall we start with the Market for Wages?

[www.mikeonads.com image 373x367]
Don't move along the supply curve, just up and MOVE it outward, without a corresponding shift in the demand curve.  Where are your wages going?

The supply is already here.  Legitimizing the current illegal immigrants isn't going to increase the supply, it will just bring them under the same regulations and protections as everyone else.


You believe that.  That's okay.  Some people disagree, I'm one of them.
 
2013-09-18 10:39:49 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: You believe that. That's okay. Some people disagree, I'm one of them.


Take heart though, there is almost certainly some alternate reality where you're also correct.
 
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