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(NPR)   This is taking the microbrewery idea a bit too far   (npr.org) divider line 38
    More: Strange, Too Far, Carthage, International Journal, syndrome, fermented beverage, The Salts  
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8109 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2013 at 6:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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NFA [TotalFark]
2013-09-18 05:44:36 AM  
I call bullshiat.  There is no way that the contents of a persons digestive tract could produce enough alcohol in such a short amount of time as to make a person drunk, especially at .37.   It would take gallons of fluid and days of fermentation to be released all at once into the blood stream.

They will prove this theory wrong.
 
2013-09-18 06:52:06 AM  
Thereby proving you never buy beer. You just rent it.
 
2013-09-18 06:53:56 AM  
I takes several days to start producing a noticeable quantity of alcohol in brewing, usually two weeks to produce enough to get someone drunk in any degree of regularity. I'd be surprised if anyone wasn't skeptical about this.

I guess it could be possible to some degree, but not enough for someone who has clearly been an alcoholic (likely with a developed tolerance) to produce enough to make him tipsy before the sugars consumed by the yeast are filtered by his digestive and urine tracts.
 
2013-09-18 06:59:42 AM  
Please don't let any hipsters find out about this...
 
2013-09-18 07:02:21 AM  
I so want this condition.
 
2013-09-18 07:04:09 AM  

Apik0r0s: I so want this condition.


Hell yeah!

$Box of Pasta < $Beer.  I'd be a rich man.
 
2013-09-18 07:08:04 AM  

JollyMagistrate: I takes several days to start producing a noticeable quantity of alcohol in brewing, usually two weeks to produce enough to get someone drunk in any degree of regularity.


I'm not arguing against the fact that this seems a little odd, but I think when they're speaking of the gut here they are talking about the intestinal tract which would have plenty of room to get the job done. If they guy was eating enough starches, and the entire length of his intestinal tract was infected with the yeast (20ft), it's conceivable that it could produce a couple ounces of ethanol pretty easily. And that's equivalent to drinking two 12oz beers at 8% ABV each.

And for the record, 5 gallons of beer can easily ferment to 5% ABV or higher in a matter of 3 days. I recently had a batch get up to 9% in 4. Though, having witnessed many fermentations in my day, including the latter example, I'm surprised there is no mention of this guy's serious flatulence problems. The amount of CO2 produced during a fermentation like this would create a virtually constant stream of gas venting from his backside.
 
2013-09-18 07:08:44 AM  

balki1867: Please don't let any hipsters find out about this...


Pfft... I knew about this guy's beer before it was stool.
 
2013-09-18 07:13:11 AM  
Drunk all day without drinking and passing gas all day, this would be great for work, where do I sign up.
 
2013-09-18 07:26:10 AM  
So if he were pulled over for DUI, despite not having directly consumed any alcohol, could he use this as a defense?
 
2013-09-18 07:28:43 AM  
i2.listal.com

No, this guy took microbrewing too far.
 
2013-09-18 07:38:41 AM  
i182.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-18 07:45:12 AM  
Wouldn't this be very similar to a lactose intolerant person drinking milk?  Producing some of the more voluminous and retched smelling farts, as well as, cramps and general bloating.
 
2013-09-18 07:45:31 AM  
Everyone get their broom.  Because I'm calling Shenanigans!
 
2013-09-18 07:48:24 AM  
I keep misplacing my microbreweries...
 
2013-09-18 08:20:31 AM  

JollyMagistrate: I takes several days to start producing a noticeable quantity of alcohol in brewing, usually two weeks to produce enough to get someone drunk in any degree of regularity.


I've made wine at home several times, and it just takes a couple days for the yeast to produce enough alcohol to even smell.  Especially if you put a ton of sugar in it to start with.
However, I can't see it working very well in only a couple hours like this story says.  Although, the environment may be very conducive to it, the body temperature especially.  That might be accelerating the process.  I know the fruit mush definitely ferments faster the warmer you can keep it during that initial week.
 
2013-09-18 08:21:45 AM  

WinoRhino: JollyMagistrate: I takes several days to start producing a noticeable quantity of alcohol in brewing, usually two weeks to produce enough to get someone drunk in any degree of regularity.

I'm not arguing against the fact that this seems a little odd, but I think when they're speaking of the gut here they are talking about the intestinal tract which would have plenty of room to get the job done. If they guy was eating enough starches, and the entire length of his intestinal tract was infected with the yeast (20ft), it's conceivable that it could produce a couple ounces of ethanol pretty easily. And that's equivalent to drinking two 12oz beers at 8% ABV each.

And for the record, 5 gallons of beer can easily ferment to 5% ABV or higher in a matter of 3 days. I recently had a batch get up to 9% in 4. Though, having witnessed many fermentations in my day, including the latter example, I'm surprised there is no mention of this guy's serious flatulence problems. The amount of CO2 produced during a fermentation like this would create a virtually constant stream of gas venting from his backside.


Mother of God. I had not thought of that at all. That man would go through underpants like a... well... a lot.

You get a gold start for investigative thought processes.
 
2013-09-18 08:37:19 AM  
Again, if you RTFA you'll see it says RARE and after the disturbance of the normal intestinal flora with antibiotics. And you don't need "gallons of liquid" when the yeast is producing pure ethanol.
Possible? Yes. Probable? No.
 
2013-09-18 08:39:22 AM  
As a homebrewer myself, I'm calling shenanigans.  I can't see enough yeast living in a man's gut to generate alcohol that quickly without him literally exploding.

Also to those above who mentioned CO2 generation - yeah I bet this guy can rip the alphabet at any given moment.
 
2013-09-18 09:17:10 AM  

WinoRhino: JollyMagistrate: I takes several days to start producing a noticeable quantity of alcohol in brewing, usually two weeks to produce enough to get someone drunk in any degree of regularity.

I'm not arguing against the fact that this seems a little odd, but I think when they're speaking of the gut here they are talking about the intestinal tract which would have plenty of room to get the job done. If they guy was eating enough starches, and the entire length of his intestinal tract was infected with the yeast (20ft), it's conceivable that it could produce a couple ounces of ethanol pretty easily. And that's equivalent to drinking two 12oz beers at 8% ABV each.

And for the record, 5 gallons of beer can easily ferment to 5% ABV or higher in a matter of 3 days. I recently had a batch get up to 9% in 4. Though, having witnessed many fermentations in my day, including the latter example, I'm surprised there is no mention of this guy's serious flatulence problems. The amount of CO2 produced during a fermentation like this would create a virtually constant stream of gas venting from his backside.


I'm with you, if this were Mythbusters I'd say Plausible.
 
2013-09-18 09:25:00 AM  
Back in my SCA days, a lot of the guys I hung with were home brewers.

One night, a friend drank from a batch of beer that still had active yeast cultures in it.  He got very, very
drunk very very quickly, and was hung over for a full 48 hours later.

So there ya go.
 
2013-09-18 09:37:11 AM  

trucktrash: Again, if you RTFA you'll see it says RARE and after the disturbance of the normal intestinal flora with antibiotics. And you don't need "gallons of liquid" when the yeast is producing pure ethanol.
Possible? Yes. Probable? No.


I doubt the requirement for gallons of water for this to work, after all how many times we had jokes about how watered down American beer is.  Some folks just get too used to the water equations.  Then we have stories of how animals got hammered on fermented berries, and now we're to assume they drank gallons of water with the berries.  When was the last time someone tried to brew the driest brew they can before watering down the mix to legal alcohol content?
 
2013-09-18 09:43:19 AM  
For all you people 'calling shenanigans', just STFU.  Don't mess with the dream...
 
2013-09-18 10:01:06 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: Back in my SCA days, a lot of the guys I hung with were home brewers.

One night, a friend drank from a batch of beer that still had active yeast cultures in it.  He got very, very
drunk very very quickly, and was hung over for a full 48 hours later.

So there ya go.


Ummmm..... I'm not sure it was the beer or a hangover in that case. I brew quite a bit, and I am always taking samples from fermentations to check on gravity levels, and I always drink the samples afterward (often cloudy with yeast in feeding frenzies) and it's never done anything like that. Besides, there is active yeast in any homebrew. That's how bottle-conditioning works.
 
2013-09-18 10:07:00 AM  

NFA: I call bullshiat.  There is no way that the contents of a persons digestive tract could produce enough alcohol in such a short amount of time as to make a person drunk, especially at .37.   It would take gallons of fluid and days of fermentation to be released all at once into the blood stream.

They will prove this theory wrong.



I will prove this theory wrong right now, using math.

1 shot of vodak is 44 milliliters.
Vodak is 40% ethanol and 60% water.
So 17.6 ml of ethanol in a shot.
Ethanol density is just under 0.8 so that makes 14 grams of ethanol.
Fermentation of table sugar produces a 50/50 mixture of ethanol and carbon dioxide gas.
So we'll need 28 grams of sugar to make the 14 grams of ethanol in one shot of vodak.
In other words, we need one ounce of sugar ... If you are cooking that is basically two flat tablespoons of sugar.
In addition to the 14 grams of ethanol, we also produced 14 grams of CO2.
The weight of carbon dioxide is roughly 44 grams per mol (12 + 16 + 16 = 44)
So we produced 0.32 mol of CO2 gas.
One mol of gas at standard temp and pressure occupies 22 liters of space.
So we produced 7 liters of CO2 gas per shot of vodak.
TFA says the man's BAC was measured at .12 with no outside alcohol.
That will take at least 3 shots worth of ethanol which would require 3 ounces of pure sugar and  produce 21 liters of CO2 gas.
In other words, this man would be incessantly burping foaming stomach acid or passing a HUGE amount of gas.
He would have seen a physician for the crazy flatulence or reflux when just getting up to .12 in the observation room.
There is no way in hell he got up to .3 BAC via internal fermentation as TFA implies.  It didn't happen.
Check his sock, he has a flask.
i.qkme.me
 
2013-09-18 10:23:58 AM  
I'm gonna call shenanigans. My dad told me a similar story when I was about 8 (20 years ago) that he'd heard from a friend years before that, who saw it in some magazine. About a guy getting a DUI and claiming to not have had a drink. The judge didn't believe him until his lawyer fed him a bunch of crackers and he exhibited signs of intoxication. So this story has been going around for a long time and I've never seen actual evidence. Periodically I see a similar story here and there, still with no evidence.

If you search google for auto brewery syndrome you don't get anything scientific; just some obscure supposed study in Japan being cited repeatedly.

The few trustworthy sources seem to suggest it's probably very unlikely or non-existent. Like this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10976182
 
2013-09-18 11:11:07 AM  

WinoRhino: DjangoStonereaver: Back in my SCA days, a lot of the guys I hung with were home brewers.

One night, a friend drank from a batch of beer that still had active yeast cultures in it.  He got very, very
drunk very very quickly, and was hung over for a full 48 hours later.

So there ya go.

Ummmm..... I'm not sure it was the beer or a hangover in that case. I brew quite a bit, and I am always taking samples from fermentations to check on gravity levels, and I always drink the samples afterward (often cloudy with yeast in feeding frenzies) and it's never done anything like that. Besides, there is active yeast in any homebrew. That's how bottle-conditioning works.


-shrug-

It was a long time ago, but that's what I remember anyway.

And, there may have been grain alcohol based beverages involved as well as home made beer.
 
2013-09-18 11:34:39 AM  
Yeah, I'm calling shenanigans too.

The basic theory behind it is actually fairly sound. Yeast is what produces alcohol: the partially-digested food moving through the gut is only the ingredient set, and a steady supply of food would work just as well as a jar of stuff that you keep lying around for a while.

The problem is time. Yeast don't just turn themselves on and off, nor do they have any way of regulating how much they produce. Same goes for the body processes that metabolize alcohol. The yeast would constantly release tiny amounts of alcohol, rather than flooding the system the way that drinking alcohol does, but your body would metabolize that alcohol at a good clip. Unless your tolerance is ridiculously low, it will never build up to a point that could possibly make you drunk, and even if that were to occur, it still wouldn't be enough to build your BAC to 0.12.
 
2013-09-18 11:55:42 AM  

Millennium: The problem is time. Yeast don't just turn themselves on and off, nor do they have any way of regulating how much they produce. Same goes for the body processes that metabolize alcohol. The yeast would constantly release tiny amounts of alcohol, rather than flooding the system the way that drinking alcohol does, but your body would metabolize that alcohol at a good clip. Unless your tolerance is ridiculously low, it will never build up to a point that could possibly make you drunk, and even if that were to occur, it still wouldn't be enough to build your BAC to 0.12.


For argument's sake only-- not that I completely believe that what the article says is true:

Yeast wouldn't turn anything off in this case-- but food wouldn't be in a constant supply, either. So the yeast sit there in the intestinal tract, and when the guy eats food it provides the yeast with sugars as they pass through the digestive tract. So they would only manufacture alcohol and CO2 during these times. As stated previously, the intestine is 20 feet long, which gives ample area for a couple ounces of ethanol to be produced which would immediately pass through the intestine wall and into the blood stream-- the same way it would during normal alcohol consumption. So to me, it's entirely plausible that as the guy would eat, digestion broke down starches into sugars in the stomach, and as these sugars hit the intestines they were fermented into ethanol the entire length of the journey.  The guy would get very gassy during this period of time, though,which is my sticking point on the whole thing. But perhaps he was. They just don't mention it.
 
2013-09-18 01:33:52 PM  

hogans: [i2.listal.com image 250x324]

No, this guy took microbrewing too far.


i.imgflip.com
 
2013-09-18 02:30:30 PM  
I call bullshiat.  No way.
 
2013-09-18 02:33:57 PM  
The actual case study.

It does say it took almost 24 hours for his BAC to rise, then quickly shot up past 0.1. It's conceivable that's the point when the yeast all started actively working on his carbs.

It never got higher than that, which makes the obvious conclusion that he was "supplementing" with a little on the side in order to hit 0.4 - I mean come on, that's digesting more than a cup of pure sugar to generate that much ethanol. Unless he slams cokes and all day, he was adding to it somehow, since the study fed him an extremely high carb diet and he still only hit 0.12.

Still, it does state that he was searched and kept under observation for 24 hours, so something is clearly happening, much like diabetics and no-carb dieters exhale alcohol when their glucose level is too low.
 
2013-09-18 03:21:53 PM  

Bruxellensis: I call bullshiat.  No way.


Oh, come on! You're dismissing it that easily? I figured you of all people would already be building a scale model of the intestines and cultivating massive quantities of yeast.
 
2013-09-18 03:41:14 PM  

WinoRhino: Bruxellensis: I call bullshiat.  No way.

Oh, come on! You're dismissing it that easily? I figured you of all people would already be building a scale model of the intestines and cultivating massive quantities of yeast.


Haha, you know me!  I acknowledge that some fermentation happens in the G.I.  I don't acknowledge that S. cerevisiae can thrive enough to grow and metabolize sugars at the rate required to give the person a BAC above legal limits, coming from eating starches no less.  Your body would have to be creating enough fermentable sugars from the starch to feed the (unlikely amount of) S. cerevisiae in your G.I.   I'm not buying it.  But, then again, I'm no doctor - just a brewer.

Anyone with GED in medicine care to elaborate on the ß-amylase required for the said conversion versus what our bodies actually produce/use?
 
2013-09-18 04:19:52 PM  
Yikes!

I better stop drinking all those glasses of trüb on bottling day!

/Hey, don't judge me, there's beer in it...
 
2013-09-18 04:40:48 PM  

foxyshadis: much like diabetics and no-carb dieters exhale alcohol when their glucose level is too low high.

ftfy... ketoacidosis, ketone


DKA may be the first symptom of previously undiagnosed diabetes, but it may also occur in people known to have diabetes as a result of a variety of causes, such as intercurrent illness or poor compliance with insulin therapy. Vomiting, dehydration, deep gasping breathing, confusion and occasionally coma are typical symptoms. DKA is diagnosed with blood and urine tests; it is distinguished from other, rarer forms of ketoacidosis by the presence of high blood sugar levels. Treatment involves intravenous fluids to correct dehydration, insulin to suppress the production of ketone bodies, treatment for any underlying causes such as infections, and close observation to prevent and identify complications.
 
2013-09-18 05:46:23 PM  
In before Lordweiser
 
2013-09-19 04:47:31 AM  

Sofa King Smart: foxyshadis: much like diabetics and no-carb dieters exhale alcohol when their glucose level is too low high.

ftfy... ketoacidosis, ketone

DKA may be the first symptom of previously undiagnosed diabetes, but it may also occur in people known to have diabetes as a result of a variety of causes, such as intercurrent illness or poor compliance with insulin therapy. Vomiting, dehydration, deep gasping breathing, confusion and occasionally coma are typical symptoms. DKA is diagnosed with blood and urine tests; it is distinguished from other, rarer forms of ketoacidosis by the presence of high blood sugar levels. Treatment involves intravenous fluids to correct dehydration, insulin to suppress the production of ketone bodies, treatment for any underlying causes such as infections, and close observation to prevent and identify complications.


Oops, yeah, I'd initially written "insulin level too low" but realized it was more about glucose than insulin, and didn't think to change the opposite side of it.
 
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