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(Yahoo)   WA stoners: "You can't, like, own nature, man." Federal park rangers: "Yes, yes we can"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 206
    More: Fail, Olympic National Park, Jay Inslee, Tacoma, Mount Rainier National Park, DOJ  
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14849 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 2:00 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-17 03:28:35 PM
President Barack Obama, she remembered, had said the federal government had "bigger fish to fry" than people who follow state marijuana laws, and Washington state had just legalized pot.

Anyone who doesn't understand the difference between making something legal and de-prioritizing enforcement needs to be arrested and lose a couple thousand bucks in fines and court costs for being incredibly ignorant of basic civics and/or just straight-up stupid, honestly.

Maybe this will be a wake-up call and stave off her inevitable death from one day crossing the line into too stupid to remember to breathe.

//Who the fark goes to a national park and doesn't know the park service is its own thing without anything else to do most days, anyhow?  They typically have literally one problem at a time, maybe two, it doesn't matter what order the priority list is, you're at the top.

OtherBrotherDarryl: Is it a federal crime when you are cited on U.S. parks for littering or other petty crimes? Do you have to appear in Federal court? Never thought about this before...


According to Wikipedia... yes.  In fact, littering on nationally-funded highways like interstates is also a federal crime, with a different minimum fine and so on (1000$, where that for most state roads is 500$ or so).  You can also get up to 1 year in prison for more extensive waste disposal in a national park.

Teddy Roosevelt was not a man to fark around with, it seems.

//I know your question was already answered in the context of MPs, just pointing out that it works that way in civilian context, too.
 
2013-09-17 03:28:43 PM
Gee whiz, the Federal government enforcing Federal laws on Federal land. That is unbelievable.

If you are knowingly doing something illegal (and smoking pot anywhere in the US is illegal) you may want to pay attention to these kinds of things.

Plus, "Not a priority" does not mean "Will not be enforced" so don't be blatant and look up the actual policy (as noted in the article, federal land was stated as an exception to that policy).

When you don't do your reasearch and get caught breaking the law, I have little sympathy for you. Even though the law should be changed.
 
2013-09-17 03:29:19 PM
cgraves67
>>> Rangers are bottom feeders, just above mall cop status.

Not really. They are much braver than most LEOs.

Citation needed

They face armed suspects more than any other LEOs

Citation needed

they often operate outside of radio or cell phone communication, so they can't call in back-up.

Flat out bullshiat.
 
2013-09-17 03:31:32 PM

Shrink: Carn: Nobody owns the water, it's God's water.

What if someone walks onto your beach, right? Like, let's say you do own it...


No man, you don't own the beach, you don't own the sand...
 
2013-09-17 03:37:26 PM

OnlyM3: cgraves67
>>> Rangers are bottom feeders, just above mall cop status.

Not really. They are much braver than most LEOs.
Citation needed

They face armed suspects more than any other LEOs
Citation needed

they often operate outside of radio or cell phone communication, so they can't call in back-up.
Flat out bullshiat.


They deal with a lot of hunters so that's a lot of armed suspects since everyone's a suspect, right?
 
2013-09-17 03:37:27 PM
Well, what with the sequester and all, we've got to pay for the parks somehow. Sorry, stoners, you got picked. Don't vote for Republicans, and this won't happen to you.
 
2013-09-17 03:39:33 PM

mediablitz: ZAZ: Karen Strand didn't think she'd get in trouble for having a small container of medical marijuana when she went hiking in Olympic National Park this summer. But a ranger pulled her over on a remote gravel road, and Strand wound up as one of at least 27,700 people cited for having pot on federal land since 2009, according to an Associated Press analysis of federal court data.

Is this a common pothead misconception? A friend of mine acted like Colorado legal = OK to smoke openly on federal land. Luckily no rangers were around.

Wonder how long that stupid word is going to stick around. I guess it makes it easier for you to overlook the fact that the federal government is wasting its time and money busting someone for having a joint?

Do you drink at all? Does that make you an alcoholic? No? Then why is ANYONE who smokes marijuana immediately a "pothead" in your book?


Because they are a moron, and a troll?
 
2013-09-17 03:41:55 PM
thanks for the informative article, subby. there's no way i'm not getting high the next time i go to Olympic National Park (GIS); now i know to be sly about it no matter what washington law might say.

imagecache6.allposters.com

/have you ever seen the sun rise over the grand canyon... on weed?!?
 
2013-09-17 03:43:39 PM

Sleeping Monkey: No government agency is going to pass up the opportunity to take money from American citizens.


^This^
 
2013-09-17 03:44:19 PM

Tom_Slick: Just like I don't want to be hiking in the woods and smell some jack ass smoking a cigarette, I don't want to smell a joint either.


Run, it's the Olfactory police!

/OK, Francis
 
2013-09-17 03:45:13 PM

T.rex: said it was for all intents and purposes, a methamphetimine, and wasn't comfortable prescribing it.


"a methamphetamine" lol.. like there is more than one meth.  Adderal is it is amphetamine, not methamphetamine.  Amphetamine is what people called "speed" before meth came onto the scene.
 
2013-09-17 03:45:57 PM
The road to Burning Man was a sea of BLM and Forest Service rangers, with half a dozen officers and a K-9 unit available for every traffic stop, which they would initiate for driving 6mph on the open desert when they stated a 5mph limit (notwithstanding the nonexistence of legal traffic control devices). Cheap pot busts are how they pad their budgets and they're not going to let that go anytime soon.
 
2013-09-17 03:48:11 PM
In other words, if you want to smoke pot, shoot smack, explode IEDs, whatever else on federal land, do so during the last week of August, all the cops have gone to Burning Man.
 
2013-09-17 03:55:53 PM
If your state's laws do not align with federal laws, stop visiting federal land.
It's that simple. If you live in Washington, you run the risk of violating federal law even as you're upholding state law, and the federal authorities want your money. If you use or possess marijuana, don't visit federal land for any reason - these assholes are looking for you, because your citations pay their wages.

I wonder how that's going to go, when folks realize that vacationing in a national park could get you inadvertently arrested because, although you're following state law, you're screwed by the difference between state law and federal law?

I know I won't be visiting a national park any time soon, that's for damned sure.
 
2013-09-17 03:59:48 PM
When you're out trying to enjoy nature, don't forget that it's against the law to enjoy nature.
 
2013-09-17 04:00:11 PM

Sybarite: Lot of no-go zones there.


[www.worldofmaps.net image 850x647]


I'm left wondering about the BIA reservations...
 
2013-09-17 04:04:36 PM

OnlyM3: cgraves67
>>> Rangers are bottom feeders, just above mall cop status.

Not really. They are much braver than most LEOs.
Citation needed

They face armed suspects more than any other LEOs
Citation needed

they often operate outside of radio or cell phone communication, so they can't call in back-up.
Flat out bullshiat.


Let's try this one. The interviewee addresses all of the items I stated:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4709159

Here's another one:

http://work.chron.com/hazards-being-forest-ranger-21162.html

They face more armed people because 1) they check a lot of hunters, 2) because they are in the places where poachers operate, 3) drug smugglers run through Parks, 4) people carry guns where there is wildlife for *usually unnecessary* protection and it's legal to do so in national Parks now, although legality rarely stopped anyone who wanted to in the past.

Furthermore, I infer that they are braver because they have higher risks on the job than other federal LEOs, and are aware of the higher risks, but they choose to perform the necessary job anyway for whatever reason.

And my last part is poorly worded. Allow me to clarify. When Rangers are operating in mountainous regions, radio and cellular contact is sporadic at best. If they are out of radio contact, they may have to move several miles in order to make contact with their base and call for help. That's not easy if they become wounded in the line of duty. It may not even be possible if they are in a situation where a bad person or animal gets the upper hand on them. And as one article states, back-up could be hours away.
 
2013-09-17 04:12:47 PM
It's decriminalized in my city, but every single f--king year dumbass kids smoke on state university property.  Where it isn't.  They literally could cross the street most of the times and have a (iirc) $15 ticket and nothing on their record.  But instead (again, iirc) they lose access to federal funding for college.  A+ job, folks.

I don't really have sympathy.  It's one thing if you've got a legit medical card and happen to live in subsidized housing and get caught smoking.  It's quite another when you're an able bodied person who can't be assed to figure out where you probably shouldn't smoke in your INCREDIBLY LENIENT environment/state/city.

Sheesh.
 
2013-09-17 04:15:51 PM
To be fair, I begrudgingly have a bit of sympathy for folks driving on normal looking roads that just happen to turn into Federal property.

But as for the lady with the piece on the table - again, it's a tiny fine in my city.  But even so, I made sure my medical card carrying roommate never left any paraphernalia out in the living room.  Because it's common sense, and common courtesy if I have friends/relatives over who don't smoke (I don't have to sweep the damn living room, kitchen, etc.).

If you're done smoking, put it away.  Don't leave stuff out in the open.
 
2013-09-17 04:17:58 PM
Well state law says that it's illegal to toke up in public punishable by a $100 fine.
 
2013-09-17 04:24:27 PM
Strand, 36, was pulled over for having a broken taillight, and the ranger reported that he could smell fresh pot.

If he can smell pot while you are driving, then WTF ARE YOU DOING? Drinking while driving is illegal, even for passengers. Treating pot similarly seems like a no-brainer.
 
2013-09-17 04:26:55 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: your INCREDIBLY LENIENT environment/state/city.


It is remarkable how some areas will now only make you pay a fine for the unbelievable privilege of personal choice.  It does, indeed, defy credulity.  Would you contend that kissing rings expresses adequate gratitude, or would you throw decorum to the wind and just lick their boots?
 
2013-09-17 04:31:43 PM

Jument: Strand, 36, was pulled over for having a broken taillight, and the ranger reported that he could smell fresh pot.

If he can smell pot while you are driving, then WTF ARE YOU DOING? Drinking while driving is illegal, even for passengers. Treating pot similarly seems like a no-brainer.


it didn't say smoked pot...
 
2013-09-17 04:39:08 PM

give me doughnuts: 0.1 grams?
Normal (and NORML) people call that being out of pot.


Its called rolling a pinner
 
2013-09-17 04:39:26 PM
" He came to make sure her dog was on a leash, but then saw an empty pipe on the picnic table.  With his hand on his gun, she said, the ranger demanded she turn over whatever pot she had"

Yea I'm pretty sure there was a credible threat here...
 
2013-09-17 04:46:01 PM
When I worked for the District court I decided to stop in on a day where one of the judges decided to schedule all the pending citations (traffic and misdemeanor) and it was interesting to see the people's reaction expecting a Mickey Mouse court date like they normally would get in a state court and realize that they were infront of a very serious federal judge. Some people got the clue real quick and things went smoothly for then. Others not so much.
 
2013-09-17 05:00:38 PM
just leave the weed at home
 
2013-09-17 05:03:09 PM

Lerxst2k: [upload.wikimedia.org image 850x653]This land is their land.


I'm looking at that map, and damn near half of Colorado appears to be federally controlled land. Recreational retail cannabis sales become a reality in about 3.5 months there... up to a full ounce, IIRC.

An understanding of some sort will need to be reached. Soon.
 
2013-09-17 05:09:45 PM
This is why national legalization is needed now, because that's just a stupid thing that it can be legal and not legal inside the same state.  Seriously, WTF.

Well, if the motherfreaking Ranger can ski better than me, well he can try and write me a ticket, but seriously, it would be far more productive for him to stalk the snowboarders who leave their empty PBR cans in the woods all winter.

As to the pants wetters, honestly, back in 1972, I thought they would all be dead by now and weed would have been legal by 2000, but no, it seems that the Ainsworth Prohibitionist brigade is still big, strong and in power - well that and the rest of the entrenched interests - those being cops, courts, jailers, lawyers, rehab centers, drug testing companies, drug policy compliance policy development nuts, and etc. and etc.  All of these peoples very reason for living is being taken away from them, and by the very people they want to BELIEVE they are Protecting from the Scourge that is Marijuana.

And the level of derp that exists about Marijuana makes party politics look like a game of Parchiise.

The cops are afraid they won't be able to use that joint in the pocket to intimidate people into flipping their dealer, and so on up the line - the cops might have to WORK for a living now.  What a pity.  And for every Rehab center for marijuana that goes out of business, we should throw a party!
 
2013-09-17 05:10:16 PM

OtherBrotherDarryl: Is it a federal crime when you are cited on U.S. parks for littering or other petty crimes? Do you have to appear in Federal court? Never thought about this before...


Yes. Someone I know has been cited for drinking in a Nat Fotest before.
 
2013-09-17 05:11:28 PM
Dyslexia caused me to be a finalist in America's Next Pot Model.
 
2013-09-17 05:19:29 PM
But ... states' rights!
Plan not thunk all the way through, legalizing states.
 
2013-09-17 05:20:15 PM
Don't they have anything better to do? When it comes to pot, I could take it or leave it, but I find it absolutely absurd that someone can get in trouble for possessing a small piece of a naturally occurring plant.
 
2013-09-17 05:29:04 PM

fanbladesaresharp: New Slang: These rangers must be jerks.  Before it was legal, I used to get caught by the cops on several occassions.  The worst thing that ever happened was they kept my stash.

Rangers are bottom feeders, just above mall cop status.

They also have federal backing, which mall cops have none of. Hell even Fish and Game can make your life very, very difficult these days. When you're making opinions, try to stay on this side of the dirt too.

The point is: don't be stupid about it. When you grow on federal land, what methods do you use? How do you get your water? Did you cut down any trees and clear land? How many critters did you kill with all the fertilizers and rodentcide? This shiat happens. A lot, especially in my part of the "free land to be owned by no one". You have squatters in the general sense, and you also have a certain segment of people that will squat on anything, for any reason, and make the arguement "it's my tax dollars! I should be able to do as I please with it!" Believe me, SoOR and NorCal are full of those types. (kind of goes back to that whole State of Jefferson thing with people, but that's for another day).

Again, quit being a moran about it. A lot of fed lands are for the benefit of everyone, not just your damn self and you're grow op and trying to hide behind the ignorance of law. Give it time, and it could become something as simple as getting a permit for gathering firewood or a burn permit for slash burning, or just a fishing permit. But it won't happen unless you start complying with some of the laws, regardless of one's person's opinions about it.

Another actual concern about it, is burning material in forests that are tinderboxes. If you burn your thumb sparking up your fatty or pipe (or a cigarette you're done with), and you toss it to the ground, are you prepared to put out a forest fire? I know that sounds pretty extreme, but it's a real argument around here.

I know of many people who have grown weed or still do that think they ...


Dude, I didn't make the assumption that New Slang was talking about growing weed, just getting caught toking up. Based on that, I agree that Federal LEOs should STFU and GBTW when it comes to personal weed use. I'm with you on fighting against grow ops in Federal forests. Legalization would help; no one is distilling booze in our parks...
 
2013-09-17 05:31:14 PM

captcurt: Dyslexia caused me to be a finalist in America's Next Pot Model.


Dyslexic devil worshippers sell their souls to Santa.
 
2013-09-17 05:32:00 PM
"It's a beautiful place up there," Thomas Strand said. "And I don't know if I'll ever go back."

Don't let the door on the VW mini bus hit you on the ass.
 
2013-09-17 05:34:16 PM

randomjsa: Ah the age old 'because it's legal somewhere I'm entitled to do it anywhere' idea.


I agree that sentiment isn't a good reflection of the way things actually work, but it's not exactly intuitive to think "If I step 4 inches to the left, the thing I'm doing right now will become illegal even though the people, culture, geography, infrastructure, etc. are all identical" -- the geopolitical boundaries that are part of modern life are very abstract. And the situation isn't helped by the fact that "federal lands", particularly rural sites, typically do not have well-marked boundaries.
 
2013-09-17 05:36:38 PM
Well, I guess we've solved all the other problems, better go after the hikers getting baked. Shiat like this going on and people wonder why the US is a laughingstock around the world.
 
2013-09-17 05:40:05 PM

FormlessOne: I know I won't be visiting a national park any time soon, that's for damned sure.


If it was just national parks it wouldn't be such a problem. But there are hundreds of federal sites in WA making up a significant proportion of the total land area -- western states are lousy with federal land. For example, I'm not sure you can get across the Cascades without crossing through federal land.
 
2013-09-17 05:45:29 PM

ZAZ: OtherBrotherDarryl

Yes, petty crimes go to federal court if a federal LEO cites you. In a few places you can get federal speeding ticket on what looks like an ordinary city street or state highway. The DC area parkways are federal land, for example.

If you get a marijuana citation on federal land some courts will treat it as a real crime. That may mean six months real probation, with regular reporting and testing, if you don't go to jail.


Makes me happy that in my state, the good land belongs to the state, while the crappy parts no one goes on except to hunt, belong to the feds.
 
2013-09-17 05:50:09 PM
It's my day off so I'm really getting a kick out of this thread.
 
2013-09-17 05:50:53 PM

profplump: randomjsa: Ah the age old 'because it's legal somewhere I'm entitled to do it anywhere' idea.

I agree that sentiment isn't a good reflection of the way things actually work, but it's not exactly intuitive to think "If I step 4 inches to the left, the thing I'm doing right now will become illegal even though the people, culture, geography, infrastructure, etc. are all identical" -- the geopolitical boundaries that are part of modern life are very abstract. And the situation isn't helped by the fact that "federal lands", particularly rural sites, typically do not have well-marked boundaries.


There are already thousands upon thousands upon thousands of places in the US where taking one step cause an action to go from innoccuos to illegal. Every municipality and state border, plus many existing rules for Federal land and protected areas.

This doesn't make anything different. And no matter what the state of Washington says, marijuana is still completely illegal in the entirety of that state (even if the Federal government said they would not prioritize enforcing that fact outside of Federal lands).
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-09-17 05:55:29 PM
profplump

It's also technically illegal to possess marijuana off federal land. Don't worry so much about the legal problems, but about the practical problems. You won't get busted for simple possession unless you meet a federal LEO. Who watches I-90: park rangers or state patrol?

When my friend wanted to smoke on the porch I didn't say anything. It's state legal there and I doubted the FBI was watching. In a national park, off the main highway, I felt obliged to warn that park rangers would not look the other way like city cops.
 
2013-09-17 06:01:56 PM

Mr_Fabulous: Lerxst2k: [upload.wikimedia.org image 850x653]This land is their land.

I'm looking at that map, and damn near half of Colorado appears to be federally controlled land. Recreational retail cannabis sales become a reality in about 3.5 months there... up to a full ounce, IIRC.

An understanding of some sort will need to be reached. Soon.


In all fairness, while it's not illegal as such, you're very much not really supposed to smoke tobacco in national parks either.  Smoking in general is farking famous for starting forest fires.  Technically they can't arrest you and fine you until you actually leave a butt behind (usually, depending on park policy) but they pretty much want to from the time they see smoke in your mouth, and are likely looking for a reason.

The ranger that catches you will probably be much more inclined to be friendly if you're using a self-contained vaporizer or something instead.
 
2013-09-17 06:10:12 PM

mediablitz: ZAZ: Karen Strand didn't think she'd get in trouble for having a small container of medical marijuana when she went hiking in Olympic National Park this summer. But a ranger pulled her over on a remote gravel road, and Strand wound up as one of at least 27,700 people cited for having pot on federal land since 2009, according to an Associated Press analysis of federal court data.

Is this a common pothead misconception? A friend of mine acted like Colorado legal = OK to smoke openly on federal land. Luckily no rangers were around.

Wonder how long that stupid word is going to stick around. I guess it makes it easier for you to overlook the fact that the federal government is wasting its time and money busting someone for having a joint?

Do you drink at all? Does that make you an alcoholic? No? Then why is ANYONE who smokes marijuana immediately a "pothead" in your book?


Yeah, I have junk does that make me a junkie?  I have drugs, does that make me a druggie? I have an ass and I have a hat does that....well...you get the point!
 
2013-09-17 06:13:16 PM

James10952001: Don't they have anything better to do? When it comes to pot, I could take it or leave it, but I find it absolutely absurd that someone can get in trouble for possessing a small piece of a naturally occurring plant.


Uranium is naturally occurring. Should it be available at every corner store?
 
2013-09-17 06:13:50 PM

stewbert: Dude, I didn't make the assumption that New Slang was talking about growing weed, just getting caught toking up. Based on that, I agree that Federal LEOs should STFU and GBTW when it comes to personal weed use. I'm with you on fighting against grow ops in Federal forests. Legalization would help; no one is distilling booze in our parks...


Nah, it's good. I think we're on the same page. Legalization can be fun!!! And I don't smoke shiat, but I'm also not one of those anti-zealouts that lose their minds when they decide to quit doing something (we all have our vices) What is NOT fun? Having a gun pulled on you in a park because you got too close to someone's camp or grow, and all you want to do is go for a hike or go fishing. Christ, I've had to call county code enforcement recently on a couple things because a "stream restoration project" was anything but that. Want to live off the land? Then start taking care of it too when out in the sticks. I'm not after anyone's weed or shine, but would it kill people to at least not start a fire or blow themselves up?
 
2013-09-17 06:16:58 PM
31.media.tumblr.com

/*I* can, but that's because I'm not a penniless hippie.
 
2013-09-17 06:21:46 PM

dywed88: There are already thousands upon thousands upon thousands of places in the US where taking one step cause an action to go from innoccuos to illegal. Every municipality and state border, plus many existing rules for Federal land and protected areas. This doesn't make anything different.


I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. I'm not saying the feds are technically wrong here. I'm just saying the system of geopolitical-based rule making is not intuitive, has detrimental outcomes, and is not the only way we could organize things.
 
2013-09-17 06:22:32 PM
ITG time.

Who the fark gets ticketed by a park ranger? That's like getting a citation from a mall cop. I mean, common fear of government force aside, how do you meet someone in the forest miles away from anything and let them boss you around for ID and such?

Pothead: "My gun is bigger and no one knows who I am or that I'm out here."

Ranger: "...I will let you go with a warning."

Or even better, just push him in a river and run. The fed can't find people lost in national parks who want to be found, how the hell are they going to find someone deliberately hiding?
 
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