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(AP)   Navy Yard shooter suffered from mental health issues, heard voices. Gee, where have I heard that before?   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 549
    More: Obvious, mental healths  
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3602 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 1:46 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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DGS [TotalFark]
2013-09-17 02:48:51 PM

ahab: Some of you probably think George Zimmerman shouldn't be allowed to have a gun either.


There are plenty of individuals in this country that haven't ever been convicted of a crime and I would rather see them without firearms.
 
2013-09-17 02:48:52 PM
Did he get fast tracked through clearance because of affirmative action?
 
2013-09-17 02:49:02 PM

DGS: To be fair, a pack of smokes would last me significantly longer than a 6-pack of beer.


To be fair, you smoke?
 
2013-09-17 02:49:29 PM
He had mental problems, he had two incidences with a gun -- shooting the tires out on someone's car in what he called a "blackout" moment of rage, and shooting a hole in the ceiling of his apartment, nearly hitting his upstairs neighbor, with whom he'd had an ongoing feud over noise complaints.

And yet it was still legal for him to purchase firearms. He was not a "responsible" gun owner, and we need to stop pretending that keeping people like him from possessing firearms infringes on anyone else's rights.
 
2013-09-17 02:49:35 PM
Is the Navy providing grief counseling for all the looney left liberal anti gun nuts? They were probably creaming their jeans until they found out this guy was black and used a shotgun with stolen pistols instead of the evil semi automatic rifle.
 
2013-09-17 02:49:45 PM

CleanAndPure: As long as gun owners only shoot other gun owners I don't mind them shooting people quite as much.

Its when they shoot regular good people it becomes a problem


Have you any rational commentary to offer, or are you issuing insults due to an awareness of your position lacking any intellectual merit?
 
2013-09-17 02:50:57 PM
Unfortunately, the widely promoted idea that guns will solve your problems and will magically protect and empower you, attracts the fearful and confused mentally ill. Loughner's car was full of "modern gun nut" magazines and  Lanza's parent encouraged him to focus on guns. This guy shot his neighbor and a car and went on to kill 13 while solving his problems with guns. You aren't going to be able to completely legislate away access for the mentally ill because no test for mental illness can predict future actions, but not promoting guns continuously as a solution to problems ("second amendment solutions!") would help. I think that the more that guns are promoted by proponents, the more we will have the weak minded fringe elements latching on to them as a solution to their troubles.
 
2013-09-17 02:51:39 PM

Launch Code: Is the Navy providing grief counseling for all the looney left liberal anti gun nuts? They were probably creaming their jeans until they found out this guy was black and used a shotgun with stolen pistols instead of the evil semi automatic rifle.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-17 02:52:54 PM

Evil Mackerel: AGremlin: Obligatory:

[thumbnails.hulu.com image 512x288]

Man: Oh, yes, definitely. That's all he talked about. I remember one day I says, uh, "Stutts, why are you working so hard?" He says, "'Cause I'm saving up to buy a gun, so I can kill Buckwheat." [shrugs]

Thank you , I had that stuck in my head all day.
/=)


No problem.  For a minute I thought I had stumbled into a Mensa meeting in which all the world's problems were being solved by TFs.

Then I remembered that the people actually trying to solve the world's problems don't have time to philosophize on FARK all day.
 
2013-09-17 02:53:23 PM

shower_in_my_socks: And yet it was still legal for him to purchase firearms. He was not a "responsible" gun owner, and we need to stop pretending that keeping people like him from possessing firearms infringes on anyone else's rights.


Ah, yes, but it's easy to say that this fellow was no true Scotsman and therefore we need to concentrate on things other than guns.
 
2013-09-17 02:53:31 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: PsiChick: HST's Dead Carcass: PsiChick: Maybe we could try educating the public on schizophrenia symptoms and advising them to see mental health professionals\doctors.

Nothing like telling the uneducated masses about symptoms to watch for to explain someone's behavior. I mean, it worked so well for Salem, what could go wrong?

Yes, education on the symptoms of depression has led to nothing but witchhunts.

/Seriously. No, that does not always happen.

No, not in recent history at all.

All I'm saying is we apply the term 'Professional' to individuals for a reason. Hell, how many people still think Obama is a Muslim? After all the evidence to the contrary they still insist upon this. And you want to empower people to make clinical diagnoses of other people that they may or may not have agendas against?


No, I want to empower people to realize that, if they hear voices, medications and talk therapy can help. And your sex-abuse link had far more to do with outdated techniques and idiot social workers than witchhunts.
 
2013-09-17 02:55:43 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: AngryJailhouseFistfark: You've mis-labeled your fallatial straw-boater hat: He's not bringing a knife to a gun-fight. He goes stabby before the fight starts. Hell, he might even go stabby before the cop even realizes the guy's there. Altogether different.

The straw man argument is: He'd go on a mass homicidal rage with a knife, in order to gain access to a gun. That's absurdity and obfuscation at it's finest.

He brought a gun because of it's ease of use. The point and click interface is so easy, even a cavemen can do it.


It is not a strawman argument.  It is merely pointing out that any solution with an easy workaround isn't really a good solution.  Especially if the negative consequences of the solution might outweigh the benefits even if the workaround isn't so easy.

It's akin to you deciding that you no longer wish to have salesmen or Mormans knocking on your door, so you propose a solution of putting a gate across your front sidewalk.  I point out to you that they will just walk on the grass to get around the gate.  You claim this is preposterous because everyone who ever comes to your front door comes on the sidewalk and never walks on the grass.
 
2013-09-17 02:55:44 PM

birdmanesq: Kellermann


lol
 
2013-09-17 02:56:06 PM
i586.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-17 02:59:32 PM
Shoulda got a shotgun.
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-17 02:59:49 PM

Bacontastesgood: umad: just take a look at cigarette taxes. The government couldn't ban them either, so they did the next best thing.

And now nobody smokes because they're too expensive!  I mean, a pack of cigs is more than a six pack of beer!


Exactly. Fark the poor! I can still afford them, so what is the problem? We should institute a poll tax too!
 
2013-09-17 03:02:39 PM
birdmanesq

Honestly, the fact that he wasn't charged or convicted of the two gun things doesn't bother me,

A guy pops of 'x' number of rounds into the tires of a person that "dissed" him and it doesn't bother you that he wasn't charged?


um ok that' makes a load of sense.
 
2013-09-17 03:02:52 PM

Carousel Beast: DjangoStonereaver: The Alexis case proves the screaming need for a central, federal registry of people who should never be
allowed to own firearms, but there is no way in hell the 'Second Amendment as a check against tyrrany"
LARP brigade and their political lapdogs will ever let that happen because, you know, state's rights.

But of course we have no need to worry that people with your sense of tact and elucidation would, in fact, try a backdoor gun ban due to your bigotry.


You mentioned bigotry, not me.

I think you need to switch to decaf tea.
 
2013-09-17 03:03:47 PM

ahab: Maud Dib: mediablitz: ahab: I haven't seen any reports that he had a criminal record.

Yeah. He had a noise dispute with his downstairs neighbor in Texas and shot through his floor (her roof) while she was home. They could only charge him with unlawful discharge of a firearm.

He also shot the tires out of some guy's car in Seattle, but the cops "lost" the paperwork and didn't file charges.
How convenient.
Farker should have lost his license AND guns after the second incident.

So what you're saying is, he had no criminal record.  There were two arrests, 6 years apart, and neither one led to charges being filed, let alone a conviction.


I would like to know why the fark he DIDN'T have a criminal record?
So it's OK to go around blasting people's cars according to Seattle po-po.
MMmmmkay. Sorry, occifer, it was an accidental discharge..AGAIN.
 
2013-09-17 03:05:37 PM
Ya know, an 'official' federal database of gun registrations is a rather moot point if the NSA is capturing all our data.
Just from that meta-data from our ISPs, phones and credit cards -- things we know they can and do collect and aggregate -- you could get a pretty darn good picture of who actually owns and shoots which firearms, where and how often.
 
2013-09-17 03:06:26 PM

Kit Fister: It would be interesting to see if there were some pharmacological correlations between the various mass shooters.


All except maybe one have been on SSRIs. When your 'anti-depressant' has warnings it might cause you to commit suicide, something isn't right.
 
2013-09-17 03:07:01 PM

OnlyM3: A guy pops of 'x' number of rounds into the tires of a person that "dissed" him and it doesn't bother you that he wasn't charged?


I think you misread the thrust of that sentence.

Neighborhood Watch: What does that tell you?


It tells me that you, sir, are no demographer. The chart would skew differently if it was done as a mass shootings per 10,000 residents.
 
2013-09-17 03:07:18 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Kit Fister: It would be interesting to see if there were some pharmacological correlations between the various mass shooters.

All except maybe one have been on SSRIs. When your 'anti-depressant' has warnings it might cause you to commit suicide, something isn't right.


I agree.
 
2013-09-17 03:07:24 PM

umad: Exactly. Fark the poor! I can still afford them, so what is the problem?


I'm glad you agree, and are a member of the uberelite who can still smoke.

We should institute a poll tax too!

Well, voting isn't a dispensable good, so no.
 
2013-09-17 03:08:56 PM
birdmanesq

Isn't there some useful old saying about bringing a knife to a gun fight that might be applicable here?

See Tueller Drill and the stats on how many idiots...errr cops are killed with their own guns.
 
2013-09-17 03:12:24 PM
Kit Fister:
I agree. As much as I'm a gun guy, I'd like to see more comprehensive reporting of people with dangerous mental illnesses and a higher bar for mental health in general, with the recurrence of compulsory institutionalization if you're really bad.

I agree, and so does my congressman, but he won't do anything about stopping people with mental illnesses from buying guns because the special interest groups will disembowel him.
 
2013-09-17 03:13:30 PM

umad: birdmanesq: Kellermann

lol


You missed my followup to that post.
 
2013-09-17 03:15:15 PM
Navy Yard shooter suffered from mental health issues, heard voices.

And had two prior arrests on gun-related charges.  But he had no problem at all getting more guns.
 
2013-09-17 03:15:19 PM
HST's Dead Carcass


Damn straight! Why do I have to register my car every year? And my boat? And my Hog? And my camper? F those Government assholes prying into my personal life! They're probably taxing me on all those things, too! They have no right to impede my success and collection of personal luxuries!!

When you've had an adult explain to you the difference between rights vs "personal luxuries" get back to us.
 
2013-09-17 03:16:10 PM
Access to guns by the mentally ill has always been the major problem, and the system is totally broken. I know a guy that lives on welfare due to being unable to work and professionally diagnosed with mental problems, who walked right into a place and bought an AK-47.

Did he lie on the questionnaire? I don't know. If he did, did they verify his answers? Do you think they verify the answers when you select the radial indicating you've never never been treated for mental illness? Hell, do they even check to make sure there are no restraining orders against you, or is it just "No," cause I said so? This guy had even been arrested the year before for domestic violence.

So, if these people can get guns, damn sure I'm going to match them. I'm probably paranoid from watching to much Investigation Discovery, but I pity the fool that breaks into my house looking to hurt me.
 
2013-09-17 03:18:27 PM

lilbjorn: Navy Yard shooter suffered from mental health issues, heard voices.

And had two prior arrests on gun-related charges.  But he had no problem at all getting more guns.


Because the cops failed to do their damn job, AGAIN
 
2013-09-17 03:18:51 PM
HST's Dead Carcass

I walk in the realm of hyperbole and circumstance. I try to post on both sides of the issues, commenting on pros and cons. Plus, I'm just getting y'all ready for the herp and derp of Liters.
By posting your own troll posts you prove you're better than the rest of the trolls.

More proof that tf'ers are allowed to break the rules as long as their pay pal acct still works.


// but at least you're admitting you're trolling.
 
2013-09-17 03:19:04 PM

Neighborhood Watch: Hey, I just found this hand map which illustrates that most mass shootings happen on the east or west coast and in the Rust Belt - i.e. democrat/liberal controlled regions of the country.

What does that tell you?


/I know what it tells ME


That you made you mind up long before it told you anything?
 
2013-09-17 03:20:28 PM
One thing that has not been pointed out is that EVERYONE can have a psychotic break if put under enough stress. Attempts to define folks experiencing a psychotic break as 'them' or as easily identified is not going to solve anything.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-17 03:20:51 PM

Kit Fister: Likewise, rather than replacing termite-ridden floorboards, let's just put a new coat of varnish and a veneer on it and hope the underlying problems don't cause any more catastrophic issues.


That is about as clear an analogy as I have seen on this subject. Well said.
 
2013-09-17 03:23:14 PM

lilbjorn: Navy Yard shooter suffered from mental health issues, heard voices.

And had two prior arrests on gun-related charges.  But he had no problem at all getting more guns.


And zero criminal convictions! Also, the two incidents were 6 years apart.  Clear pattern of behavior there, right?
 
2013-09-17 03:24:22 PM
birdmanesq: But how about a graduated fee structure? You know, your over-under shotgun is free (or a small fee), but your fully-automatic gatling gun costs, oh, dunno, $10,000 a year to register.

Good plan. Lets apply that to all rights.
1st:
morse code is free (or a small fee)
but your pentiumII's and above costs, oh, dunno, $10,000 a year to register.

4th:
Your bedroom is a search free zone -without a warrant- after you paid a small fee.
But your car and bathroom costs, oh, dunno, $10,000 a year to register.

5th:
You have the right to remain silent if you're accused of a small infraction (jaywalking)
but if you're charged with a felony, it costs $10,000 per charge to exercise that right.
 
2013-09-17 03:24:53 PM
People who had "anger management issues" and heard voices in their heads used to be committed before the voices told them to kill people. We should get back to that.
 
2013-09-17 03:25:13 PM
If you're going to try to kill me, you'd better have a gun (as opposed to a knife or a baseball bat or a lead pipe). Because otherwise it probably won't work. So in my very specific case, people don't kill people, guns kill people.

/although I suppose a car might work
//or a bomb
///or some poison
////or burning my house down with me in it
//but my point still stands because slashies
 
2013-09-17 03:25:32 PM

ahab: lilbjorn: Navy Yard shooter suffered from mental health issues, heard voices.

And had two prior arrests on gun-related charges.  But he had no problem at all getting more guns.

And zero criminal convictions! Also, the two incidents were 6 years apart.  Clear pattern of behavior there, right?


To most sane people, yes.
 
2013-09-17 03:26:32 PM
Yeah!  We never have enough Joan of Arc threads.  I finally get to trot out all my Jean Seberg pictures.
 
2013-09-17 03:26:48 PM

mediablitz: MrBallou: As usual, the only two choices being offered are to restrict guns or to lock away anyone deemed to be unstable

You are the only one seeing that as the "only two choices". Others are having an actual discussion about what could be done. Open your mind just a crack. Just the tiniest bit, and try to see that there are other options, and they are being discussed.

Go ahead. It won't hurt at all.


That's precious.
 
2013-09-17 03:27:50 PM

doyner: ahab: lilbjorn: Navy Yard shooter suffered from mental health issues, heard voices.

And had two prior arrests on gun-related charges.  But he had no problem at all getting more guns.

And zero criminal convictions! Also, the two incidents were 6 years apart.  Clear pattern of behavior there, right?

To most sane people, yes.


It's a pity that the clearance adjudicators (plural because it sounds like he was screened at least twice, once this year!) are insane.
 
2013-09-17 03:28:28 PM
This event has all but paralyzed the "ZOMG! GUNS BAD!!!" crowd across all social media, including FARK, since they're also largely the "You can't say anything bad about a black guy, that would be 'racist'" crowd, so the amount of public hand wringing and bloviating over this compared to any other similar incident is hovering just above zero.*

*
Except for Slate, who've weighed in to say that  "Yeah, 12 people are dead, but the real problem is racists on Twitter."

Needless to say, Fark didn't dare greenlight that story.

Gotta' stick with the narrative!!!!

Trayvon! Red Lobster! Ms. America!!!!
 
2013-09-17 03:28:33 PM
Of all of the victims in that shooting.  Not one of them was carrying a firearm to protect themselves.
 
2013-09-17 03:29:26 PM

Oh_Enough_Already: This event has all but paralyzed the "ZOMG! GUNS BAD!!!" crowd across all social media, including FARK, since they're also largely the "You can't say anything bad about a black guy, that would be 'racist'" crowd, so the amount of public hand wringing and bloviating over this compared to any other similar incident is hovering just above zero.*

*Except for Slate, who've weighed in to say that  "Yeah, 12 people are dead, but the real problem is racists on Twitter."

Needless to say, Fark didn't dare greenlight that story.

Gotta' stick with the narrative!!!!

Trayvon! Red Lobster! Ms. America!!!!


Denny's?
 
2013-09-17 03:29:44 PM

OnlyM3: When you've had an adult explain to you the difference between rights vs "personal luxuries" get back to us.


OnlyM3: Good plan. Lets apply that to all rights.


I'm pretty sure that you don't understand Second Amendment law as it relates to taxes and fees: There are no specific prohibitions on taxes and fees. Now, upthread I suggested that if it came up that it would likely be handled in some sort of "undue burden" fashion.

I mean, we can live in a Randian fantasy world where we can proclaim things like "the government can't tax fundamental rights" but here in America taxing (up to a certain extent) is not a taking and there are few limitations on the government's ability to subject gun ownership to taxes and fees. That's reality.
 
2013-09-17 03:30:20 PM

birdmanesq: This incident is a much more compelling example of how stricter regulations could have reduced the possibility of a mass shooting than was Sandy Hook. Here you have a guy with a pretty clear record of gun incidents coupled with mental health problems who purchased one of the guns that he used in the incident legally. Honestly, the fact that he wasn't charged or convicted of the two gun things doesn't bother me, especially when suspicion is raised by the pattern of incidents and the mental health issues.

So now the question is whether you think someone who has a clear record of alleged gun incidents and a history of severe mental health problems should be allowed to own a firearm. If the answer to that question is no, well, then it's fairly straightforward to reverse-engineer a regulatory scheme that might prevent that from happening.

Who needed to know what at the point of sale of that shotgun for folks to hit pause on this for a while? Well, clearly a background check needed to show the mental health problems and the alleged gun incidents. Now those things took place across several states, so this needs to be a Federal solution, not a state solution. And the local jurisdictions need to be compelled to report gun-related incidents or other violent crime to the Federal database. The mental health is a little trickier because there needs to be some sort of flag that triggers reporting--but I'm sure that we can work out the details there without too much trouble.

So the first step looks like a more comprehensive and mandatory system of background checks, which compels participation from local authorities and health care providers (easily coerced through public-safety and Medicare dollars).


How dare you bring common sense and problem solving into this sacred FARK thread!

All kidding aside, I support RTC and Private ownership of firearms with fewer restrictions on the type of firearms... But with the caveat that the mentally unsound and those with a history of violent crimes should be prevented from owning a firearm by means of a background check and severe penalties (Hard time, no bail) if they obtain firearms through illegal means.
 
2013-09-17 03:32:06 PM
On the other hand, he did injury Miz.
 
2013-09-17 03:33:01 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Obviously his legal access to guns isn't the problem. Right?


Guns?  He should not have access to the street. Apparently he was criminally insane, and should have been locked up and receiving treatment. If he had set fire to a movie theatre with a five gallon jerrycan of gasoline would you call for closing Shell Stations?
 
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