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(AP)   Navy Yard shooter suffered from mental health issues, heard voices. Gee, where have I heard that before?   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 548
    More: Obvious, mental healths  
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3603 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 1:46 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-17 01:43:55 PM

doyner: ahab: And I assert that the adjudicator probably looked at the arrest record, saw there were no charges filed and no convictions, decided that two incidents 6 years apart didn't make a pattern, and approved the clearance.

So I guess the third incident yesterday finally makes a pattern, huh?

 And the unit I was in is based in DC, so my neck of the woods was exactly where you are.

Well I guess you just proved my point then.


Well, I think we can both agree that he probably won't be granted a clearance in the future.
 
2013-09-17 01:45:29 PM

ahab: doyner: ahab: And I assert that the adjudicator probably looked at the arrest record, saw there were no charges filed and no convictions, decided that two incidents 6 years apart didn't make a pattern, and approved the clearance.

So I guess the third incident yesterday finally makes a pattern, huh?

 And the unit I was in is based in DC, so my neck of the woods was exactly where you are.

Well I guess you just proved my point then.

Well, I think we can both agree that he probably won't be granted a clearance in the future.


Ug. I laughed.
 
2013-09-17 01:47:34 PM
As usual, the only two choices being offered are to restrict guns or to lock away anyone deemed to be unstable. Both are slippery slopes to loss of liberty and they wouldn't have prevented this case anyway, let alone prevent the general phenomenon.

How about we try to figure what's made our society so farking crazy that people want to do this sort of thing, and fix it?

//pointless, but I had to say it
 
2013-09-17 01:48:27 PM
Legal gun owner.
 
2013-09-17 01:49:28 PM
This is why we need Obama Care! That should fix it.
 
2013-09-17 01:49:42 PM

birdmanesq: ahab: doyner: ahab: And I assert that the adjudicator probably looked at the arrest record, saw there were no charges filed and no convictions, decided that two incidents 6 years apart didn't make a pattern, and approved the clearance.

So I guess the third incident yesterday finally makes a pattern, huh?

 And the unit I was in is based in DC, so my neck of the woods was exactly where you are.

Well I guess you just proved my point then.

Well, I think we can both agree that he probably won't be granted a clearance in the future.

Ug. I laughed.


Sometimes, that's all you can do.  Hindsight is 20/20, but two arrests w/o convictions 6 years apart doesn't jump out as OMG THIS GUY HAS SERIOUS ANGER MANAGEMENT ISSUES.
 
2013-09-17 01:50:01 PM
I'm behind on this - is there still a second or third shooter at large?
 
2013-09-17 01:50:04 PM

MrBallou: As usual, the only two choices being offered are to restrict guns or to lock away anyone deemed to be unstable. Both are slippery slopes to loss of liberty and they wouldn't have prevented this case anyway, let alone prevent the general phenomenon.

How about we try to figure what's made our society so farking crazy that people want to do this sort of thing, and fix it?

//pointless, but I had to say it


What if it's guns?

But I digress. It could be all the violence on TV and the lack of Boobies on TV.

I'm gonna go with lack of boobies. Puritanical censorship of the airwaves must stop!
 
2013-09-17 01:50:59 PM
I think the problem is that this guy used the Biden Self-Defense Plan, and used a shotgun.  I wish Joe were more careful with his gun safety tips.  He's going to get more people killed.
 
2013-09-17 01:51:53 PM
So, he was being treated for a "host of mental issues", yet retained his security clearance...and then killed a bunch of innocent people.

I TOLD you guys there were worse people in the security industry than Bradley Manning.

Scary thing is, statistically, there are worse people than this guy with top secret clearance.

Time to burn the system down and start over.
 
2013-09-17 01:52:47 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Legal gun owner.


fuuka.warosu.org
 
2013-09-17 01:53:22 PM

birdmanesq: This incident is a much more compelling example of how stricter regulations could have reduced the possibility of a mass shooting than was Sandy Hook. Here you have a guy with a pretty clear record of gun incidents coupled with mental health problems who purchased one of the guns that he used in the incident legally. Honestly, the fact that he wasn't charged or convicted of the two gun things doesn't bother me, especially when suspicion is raised by the pattern of incidents and the mental health issues.

So now the question is whether you think someone who has a clear record of alleged gun incidents and a history of severe mental health problems should be allowed to own a firearm. If the answer to that question is no, well, then it's fairly straightforward to reverse-engineer a regulatory scheme that might prevent that from happening.

Who needed to know what at the point of sale of that shotgun for folks to hit pause on this for a while? Well, clearly a background check needed to show the mental health problems and the alleged gun incidents. Now those things took place across several states, so this needs to be a Federal solution, not a state solution. And the local jurisdictions need to be compelled to report gun-related incidents or other violent crime to the Federal database. The mental health is a little trickier because there needs to be some sort of flag that triggers reporting--but I'm sure that we can work out the details there without too much trouble.

So the first step looks like a more comprehensive and mandatory system of background checks, which compels participation from local authorities and health care providers (easily coerced through public-safety and Medicare dollars).


This makes sense and I agree.  If this were in place, would he have achieved the same ends with something else, like a pressure cooker bomb, for example?  Maybe, maybe not.
 
2013-09-17 01:53:32 PM
See you all on TFD/another TF-only thread. The liters are here.
 
2013-09-17 01:53:45 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: MrBallou: As usual, the only two choices being offered are to restrict guns or to lock away anyone deemed to be unstable. Both are slippery slopes to loss of liberty and they wouldn't have prevented this case anyway, let alone prevent the general phenomenon.

How about we try to figure what's made our society so farking crazy that people want to do this sort of thing, and fix it?

//pointless, but I had to say it

What if it's guns?

But I digress. It could be all the violence on TV and the lack of Boobies on TV.

I'm gonna go with lack of boobies. Puritanical censorship of the airwaves must stop!


Nah. Anybody with internet access is supplementing their boobie dosage way above minimal levels. It's got to be something else. I suspect it's when they stopped showing cartoon shorts at the beginning of movies.
 
2013-09-17 01:54:11 PM
Wait, so now that we know the shooter's totes cray-cray we decide to throw politics out the window and have a semi-rational discussion on mental health issues and guns?

What happened Fark?
 
2013-09-17 01:54:49 PM

PunGent: So, he was being treated for a "host of mental issues", yet retained his security clearance...and then killed a bunch of innocent people.

I TOLD you guys there were worse people in the security industry than Bradley Manning.

Scary thing is, statistically, there are worse people than this guy with top secret clearance.

Time to burn the system down and start over.


They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
Where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
Neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination one
Day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so
I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. `Cause I wanted to
Look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted
To feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
And I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
Kinds o' mean nasty ugly things. And I waked in and sat down and they gave
Me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
Wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
Guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
He started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
Yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
Sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."
 
2013-09-17 01:55:39 PM

Kit Fister: See you all on TFD/another TF-only thread. The liters are here.


Dude, I value your opinion in these matters. Without your level headed approach, it's gonna be a madhouse around these parts.

/but I do understand why you want to jettison into the ricepaddies.
 
2013-09-17 01:55:43 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: Wait, so now that we know the shooter's totes cray-cray we decide to throw politics out the window and have a semi-rational discussion on mental health issues and guns?

What happened Fark?


Adults are talking, that's what.
 
2013-09-17 01:56:13 PM
Obligatory:

thumbnails.hulu.com

Minister: He was a loner, and a quiet young man. He attended church, and Sunday School. I remember he was always very polite.

Ted Koppel: Do you believe he killed Buckwheat?

Minister: Oh, yes. Definitely. That's all he talked about.

Ted Koppel: John David Stutts graduated from Unionville High School.
Ted Koppel: His classmates called him "the loner."
Ted Koppel: Stutts was a member of the Key Club...
Ted Koppel: The Audio-Visual Squad...
Ted Koppel: And president of the Future Assassins of America.

Ted Koppel: It's no wonder that his classmates chose him, "Most Likely to Kill Buckwheat."

Gas Station Attendant: [in New England accent] Sure, I remember Stutts. He was a loner, but a real hard worker. I mean, he pumped the gas, he checked the oil, he washed the windows. Nice kid.

Ted Koppel: Do you believe he killed Buckwheat?

Man: Oh, yes, definitely. That's all he talked about. I remember one day I says, uh, "Stutts, why are you working so hard?" He says, "'Cause I'm saving up to buy a gun, so I can kill Buckwheat." [shrugs]
 
2013-09-17 01:56:27 PM
Was he or was he not on Paxil? That drug causes people to go all shooty and killy on people.
 
2013-09-17 01:56:43 PM
I_C_Weener has got everything that you want.
 
2013-09-17 01:57:16 PM

birdmanesq: I_C_Weener has got everything that you want.


(excepting weener)
 
2013-09-17 01:57:35 PM

Ennuipoet: This thread is dangerously close to being a rational discussion of the issue.  That should last about eight seconds into hitting the Main Page.


You're a goddamned clairvoyant.
 
2013-09-17 01:57:57 PM

mediablitz: birdmanesq: Kit Fister: HST's Dead Carcass: have more than a few gun nut friends. They are all adamant about not having Gun Registrations. They have a myriad of reasons (The Guvernment shouldn't know how many guns I have) and the like, but the truth is: They'd have to pay a registration fee every year, and if that were the case, some of them would be bankrupt immediately.

An enumerated right should not have a fee associated with it.  MI has a mandatory registration on all handguns. It has not yet once been used to grab guns. I'm OK with a registration because, well, frankly, if the government wants to know what guns I have, they can find out in other ways anyway, and having a registration improves my chances that I'll get my shiat back if they ever get stolen.

I don't know that licensing and registration needs to be associated with a fee. Though, certainly, it makes it more financially self-sustaining if it was.

But how about a graduated fee structure? You know, your over-under shotgun is free (or a small fee), but your fully-automatic gatling gun costs, oh, dunno, $10,000 a year to register.

Don't recall which comedian had the bit, but he said (paraphrasing) "tax bullets. That'll make a mother farker think twice. Make that bullet 100 bucks".

You can own a fully auto gatling, but bullets are $500 a pop...


I believe that was Chris Rock.
 
2013-09-17 01:58:09 PM

birdmanesq: HST's Dead Carcass: Hunter Safety Courses are required for hunting licenses, why can't we make some kind of safety course mandatory for owning any kind of firearm?

How about state's requiring militia membership as a co-requisite for gun ownership? Fine, you can own whatever guns you want (provided that they are registered--we need to know what's available when we're mustering the militia) provided you participate in once-annual militia drilling. Which, you know, can focus on gun safety and all that jazz.


Do you think Iowa will let blind people in their militia? Since they feel it is okay for them to buy and carry a weapon
 
2013-09-17 01:58:20 PM

Kit Fister: HotWingConspiracy: Legal gun owner.

[fuuka.warosu.org image 259x194]


Facts are important.
 
2013-09-17 01:58:41 PM

icebergcomics: Was he or was he not on Paxil? That drug causes people to go all shooty and killy on people.


It would be interesting to see if there were some pharmacological correlations between the various mass shooters. After all, if you're already psychotic, if there's a reason the meds make you have a bad reaction...
 
2013-09-17 01:58:46 PM

birdmanesq: I_C_Weener has got everything that you want.


down at ____________
 
2013-09-17 01:59:42 PM

doglover: I have an imperfect scheme that might just work: gladiatorial combat.

We just make it so totally insane people can quit normal society, join a gladiatorial school, and fight to the death. It would allow us to maintain the status quo while just acting like a vacuum to suck up all the crazy, violent people in our country and reduce their numbers drastically. It would also pay for itself 1000 times over because bloodsports are always popular. In the end, instead of crazy people everywhere ticking like time bombs, we'd see only a few crazy people who were well supervised and with blood lust sated and tempered with hard sports training.


Well, except for the part where people who do mass shootings generally don't follow society's norms...so some percentage wouldn't join the gladiator school, they'd STILL go shoot up the local kindergarten.
 
2013-09-17 01:59:49 PM

Kit Fister: icebergcomics: Was he or was he not on Paxil? That drug causes people to go all shooty and killy on people.

It would be interesting to see if there were some pharmacological correlations between the various mass shooters. After all, if you're already psychotic, if there's a reason the meds make you have a bad reaction...


If he's psychic we'll never catch them.  They'll always be a step ahead of us.
 
2013-09-17 02:00:01 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: Kit Fister: See you all on TFD/another TF-only thread. The liters are here.

Dude, I value your opinion in these matters. Without your level headed approach, it's gonna be a madhouse around these parts.

/but I do understand why you want to jettison into the ricepaddies.


The best thing about these posts is that some TFers think that their bullshiat forum talk means something.
 
2013-09-17 02:00:21 PM

MrBallou: As usual, the only two choices being offered are to restrict guns or to lock away anyone deemed to be unstable


You are the only one seeing that as the "only two choices". Others are having an actual discussion about what could be done. Open your mind just a crack. Just the tiniest bit, and try to see that there are other options, and they are being discussed.

Go ahead. It won't hurt at all.
 
2013-09-17 02:00:45 PM

birdmanesq: This incident is a much more compelling example of how stricter regulations could have reduced the possibility of a mass shooting than was Sandy Hook. Here you have a guy with a pretty clear record of gun incidents coupled with mental health problems who purchased one of the guns that he used in the incident legally. Honestly, the fact that he wasn't charged or convicted of the two gun things doesn't bother me, especially when suspicion is raised by the pattern of incidents and the mental health issues.

So now the question is whether you think someone who has a clear record of alleged gun incidents and a history of severe mental health problems should be allowed to own a firearm. If the answer to that question is no, well, then it's fairly straightforward to reverse-engineer a regulatory scheme that might prevent that from happening.

Who needed to know what at the point of sale of that shotgun for folks to hit pause on this for a while? Well, clearly a background check needed to show the mental health problems and the alleged gun incidents. Now those things took place across several states, so this needs to be a Federal solution, not a state solution. And the local jurisdictions need to be compelled to report gun-related incidents or other violent crime to the Federal database. The mental health is a little trickier because there needs to be some sort of flag that triggers reporting--but I'm sure that we can work out the details there without too much trouble.

So the first step looks like a more comprehensive and mandatory system of background checks, which compels participation from local authorities and health care providers (easily coerced through public-safety and Medicare dollars).


There are people that would avoid getting any mental help due to the fact they would lose the ability to own a gun.
 
2013-09-17 02:00:56 PM

lewismarktwo: HST's Dead Carcass: Kit Fister: See you all on TFD/another TF-only thread. The liters are here.

Dude, I value your opinion in these matters. Without your level headed approach, it's gonna be a madhouse around these parts.

/but I do understand why you want to jettison into the ricepaddies.

The best thing about these posts is that some TFers think that their bullshiat forum talk means something.


They paid for it, so it's valuable.
 
2013-09-17 02:02:12 PM
Guns don't kill people. Bullets do
 
2013-09-17 02:03:22 PM

dittybopper: Plus, he could have just made one or more improvised guns, if he was prevented from buying one, and used that to take a real gun from the guards.


See, now something like this I have a problem with. Not that it's impossible to do, but that it does require some ability to engineer something like that and have it work on the first go. These guys that go on these mass killings are not the brightest bulbs in the bunch when it comes to coming up with plans to cause mass amounts of damage/casualties and yet we treat them like they're farking Bond villains.

so while agree that he could very well have improvised a gun to kill a guard and then steal his gun, I don't think he is capable of the foresight and planning needed to execute such a plan, let alone the engineering ability to actually build such things and have them work the first time.

Just because something works in movies or video games and watching/playing them makes you go "oh yeah, I totally see how they could do such a thing. That's so easy!" doesn't mean you'll actually know how to do it or think to do it when in a situation.
 
2013-09-17 02:03:23 PM

lewismarktwo: HST's Dead Carcass: Kit Fister: See you all on TFD/another TF-only thread. The liters are here.

Dude, I value your opinion in these matters. Without your level headed approach, it's gonna be a madhouse around these parts.

/but I do understand why you want to jettison into the ricepaddies.

The best thing about these posts is that some TFers think that their bullshiat forum talk means something.



Don't forget to try out Totalfark Discussion.  Stay away from the Spam though.  I think its spoiled.
 
2013-09-17 02:03:55 PM
It's funny that there are farmers advocating access to health records. I bet they are the same types that complain about the NSA.

As soon as it becomes legal to fish around in medical records people will just stop seeking medical help.
 
2013-09-17 02:04:13 PM
Shh.  I think Drew is telling us to drink
 
2013-09-17 02:04:37 PM
Obvious solution: take guns away from sane people.  Duh.
 
2013-09-17 02:04:43 PM
Kit Fister:
on a whole-sale level? No. On a "i hate that guy, I'm going to fark him over" level? Yes, very easily.  Look at how easy it is to have men accused of domestic violence with literally no proof and having that fark with them.

This entire thread is why you are favorited.....though you are really being wayyyyy to reasonable for a Fark Gun and Mental Illness Thread :-)
--And thanks for the TF Sponsor; I was really missing TF. I appreciate it a lot!--
 
2013-09-17 02:04:54 PM

doglover: I have an imperfect scheme that might just work: gladiatorial combat.

We just make it so totally insane people can quit normal society, join a gladiatorial school, and fight to the death. It would allow us to maintain the status quo while just acting like a vacuum to suck up all the crazy, violent people in our country and reduce their numbers drastically. It would also pay for itself 1000 times over because bloodsports are always popular. In the end, instead of crazy people everywhere ticking like time bombs, we'd see only a few crazy people who were well supervised and with blood lust sated and tempered with hard sports training.


You've got your bread in my circuses!

Seriously, though, some of the old ways are the best ways. Particularly going forward.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-17 02:05:01 PM

MrBallou: As usual, the only two choices being offered are to restrict guns or to lock away anyone deemed to be unstable. Both are slippery slopes to loss of liberty and they wouldn't have prevented this case anyway, let alone prevent the general phenomenon.

How about we try to figure what's made our society so farking crazy that people want to do this sort of thing, and fix it?

//pointless, but I had to say it


Nope, not pointless. Keep sayin it.
 
2013-09-17 02:06:05 PM

Neighborhood Watch: It's already virtually illegal to own or sell a firearm in DC.  Think of that - the place where the 2nd Amendment is actually enshrined.  And he went in with a shotgun, not an 'assault weapon'.  Nonetheless, Obama is pushing ahead with new "executive actions" today and the usual liberal loudmouths are back on the bandwagon with the bullhorns.

Why is it that when someone does a mass shooting like this, liberals demand that those who didn't do it be disarmed?


Someone shot up a place in a gun free zone using a shotgun, and two handguns he picked up from his victims.  Time to ban the AR-15.
 
2013-09-17 02:06:08 PM

cwolf20: Shh.  I think Drew is telling us to drink


You must've graduated from the No Sh*t Sherlock Institution
 
2013-09-17 02:06:18 PM
Thank you, Americans with Disabilities Act!
www.insidesocal.com
 
2013-09-17 02:07:34 PM
Just astonishing.   I know someone who has a permanent job with the Census Bureau.  Her job involves really super high security stuff like asking people about how many bathrooms they have, and what time they go to work in the morning.  She put me down as a reference when she applied for the job.  I was called and interviewed by the Census Bureau, and they sent me a detailed questionnaire to fill out asking about her qualifications.   No weapons of any kind are involved with this type of work.....well, I think she has a pair of sharp scissors in her bag.

Here we have a dude who believes dogs are talking to him, and he's allowed to buy an automatic rifle, AND get secret clearance  with access to military bases.

/Putin laughs at Murica
//Even harder
 
2013-09-17 02:07:50 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Meanwhile the Republicans who refuse to pass even universal background checks...


Surely universal background checks (which aren't as thorough as the background check he passed for his security clearance) would have averted this tragedy.
 
2013-09-17 02:07:51 PM

birdmanesq: it's fairly straightforward to reverse-engineer a regulatory scheme that might prevent that from happening



The fact that you believe this is the reason why we can't have nice things.

News flash -- people adapt.

Also, to the Fark Socialists who stamp their feet in impotent rage about how the Gun Rights crowd is so unreasonable for refusing to budge on anything, consider the nature of the Left's absolutism when it comes to issues like abortion and/or voter ID laws.
 
2013-09-17 02:07:53 PM
Maybe we should have more "Crazy Free Zones".
 
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