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(WTOP)   Good news, everybody. The mega-rich's net worth increased from $1.7 trillion to $2 trillion last year, which means there's gonna be a lot more cash money trickling down to the rest of us very soon   (wtop.com) divider line 469
    More: Cool, rises, T. Boone Pickens, Microsoft Corp., Dustin Moskovitz, Hyatt Hotel, Larry Ellison  
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2427 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 7:52 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-17 11:33:44 AM

Infernalist: We let the GOP fark things up with foreign wars and obscene tax cuts and cronyism and all but open bribery in the government at the highest level..


And then we changed control of the House, Senate and White House to the Democrats and let them do it for a while.

Did the wars continue? Yep. Obama immediately tripled the size of the war in Afghanistan and tried to extend the war in Iraq past the treaty date for total withdrawal not to mention starting a war in Libya and trying to start another in Syria.

Were the Bush tax cuts for the rich allowed to expire as scheduled? Nope. They were made a permanent part of the tax code just a few months ago. (Fiscal Cliff!!!11!)

Has cronyism continued? Are you farking kidding me? Donate some money to Obama and you get to be an ambassador. Donate enough money and you get to pick your own Secretary of the Treasury.

Has Bribery continued? You didn't notice too many of the fraudulent bankers who destroyed our economy being prosecuted, did you?

/Both sides are owned by the same people
//So stop voting for them
 
2013-09-17 11:39:16 AM

Infernalist: Because right now, it's stupid.  We let the GOP fark things up with foreign wars



marsoft: Thunderpipes: Telos: netcentric: Democrats are hoping angry taxpayers will blame the rich for having to send money to Washington

Class envy.

Despite record tax revenues, the federal government still racked up $755 billion deficit in the first eleven months of fiscal 2013

I think I know why there are issues for the middle class today.   And it isn't because of a few wealthy individuals.

You have to work 107 days in America,  just to pay your tax bill.

Maybe a large bloated Government is the problem.

You and I might have to work 107 days to pay our tax bill, but people who actually have money don't pay much in taxes.  Maybe the bloated government isn't the problem, maybe it's the top 1% avoiding their fair share of taxes.

Might want to actually look at some numbers to see how stupidly wrong you are.

Yeah, based on 262 working days in a year you have to work 104.8 days to pay your income tax. 107 days is a stupid exaggeration.


Well Damn!

If you only work two days a week, then you dont pay your income tax until Christmas!   Bastards!
 
2013-09-17 11:42:41 AM

marsoft: Yeah, based on 262 working days in a year you have to work 104.8 days to pay your income tax. 107 days is a stupid exaggeration.


I'm pretty sure the exaggeration is how much tax you will get of of a 100% tax of the 1%.
If only we taxed some other evil guy more, than 300 million of us can pay our fair share.
 
2013-09-17 11:44:07 AM

Thunderpipes: stir22: revolutions don't start until the masses can't feed their families.  that's why the mega-rich and political parties make sure that the masses have just enough to live on.   dip below that, and it's game on.  they won't let that happen.

Who is "they? You do realize, almost all the liberal leaders pushing policy, are mega rich, right?


i do.  i refer to "they" as the uber-rich, policy makers, and fortune 500 ceo's....  i've started to think that they are all trolling us.  especially the pubs and dems.   that's it's all a charade, a facade.....they get together at the highest levels and decide who gets to be in power for awhile...and, that it doesn't really matter.

for the record, i do very well.   six figure income, steady job with benefits....etc.     i'm okay.   but the middle class, as we know it, is gone....and i feel for the millions who just want to do "a little better."   also,   i feel that the gap that is widening between the uber-rich and uber-poor is by design, and that it doesn't matter who is in power in Washington.

/just my opinion, ymmv
 
2013-09-17 11:46:23 AM

BullBearMS: /Both sides are owned by the same people
//So stop voting for them


assets.sbnation.com
 
2013-09-17 11:49:51 AM

baufan2005: My company took away our bonuses, longevity checks, hell even our Christmas hams. They then cut all employees pay by 10%. The three main bosses just had a huge private parking deck built for only them. Then we constantly hear the line "Just be happy you have a job" I am not really complaining as much as I just wanted to show that Mr. Scrooge is indeed real.


It's not only the private sector. I'm a Federal employee.

My bosses (Congress) haven't given me a raise in 4 years, they've canceled all bonuses, curtailed travel and equipment acquisition, and regularly place freezes on hiring so we can't get the people we need. At the same time, they work (when they work), in plush, even luxurious offices, have huge staffs, make tons of money in various ways, authorize themselves any travel or equipment they think they need, etc., etc. etc.

Mr Scrooge gerrymandered his district to keep himself in office.
 
2013-09-17 11:50:05 AM
"So how does this trickle down work?"

"We grab every speck of available wealth, currency and useful economic leverage and shove it up our asses, use that to leverage MORE pelf, never return it to circulation, and if you pester us for bread, this officer we bought and paid for will shoot you."

"Where does the trickle down come in?"

"You know that silent tear that forms on a child's cheek when they haven't had enough to eat?"
 
2013-09-17 11:50:31 AM

Nutsac_Jim: marsoft: Yeah, based on 262 working days in a year you have to work 104.8 days to pay your income tax. 107 days is a stupid exaggeration.

I'm pretty sure the exaggeration is how much tax you will get of of a 100% tax of the 1%.
If only we taxed some other evil guy more, than 300 million of us can pay our fair share.


Someone left their sarcasm detector at home.
 
2013-09-17 11:51:25 AM

PunGent: lordaction: dready zim: lordaction: Typical liberals wanting to steal money from the people that earned it.

You mean the workers? Not the business owners? The workers did all the work, it`s sort of how they are defined...

Do you think someone earned the money who wasn`t the person who did the work? How does that work?

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth. Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.

See that bold part?  You failed right there.  Logical fallacy, indicative of suffering from the Just World delusion.

Your irrelevant prod at atheism at the end there tends to confirm the diagnosis.



Tell you what.  You go start up a company that pays people, not the going rate for their quality of work, but based on
what people would like to be paid in fantasyland.

Let us know when you can go public.
 
2013-09-17 11:51:58 AM

bunner: BullBearMS: /Both sides are owned by the same people
//So stop voting for them

[assets.sbnation.com image 300x300]


This is all well and good in theory but in practice you "throw your vote away" and republicans get in and do a smash and grab on the government for the entirety of their term. There's a reason on of their main policy positions is disenfranchisement.
 
2013-09-17 11:55:28 AM
PunGent:

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth. Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.

See that bold part?  You failed right there.  Logical fallacy, indicative of suffering from the Just World delusion.


 People are paid exactly what they are worth.  If they don't like it, they can go work for a competitor who will easily see they are such a great value.
 
2013-09-17 11:56:29 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Strik3r: Joe Blowme: and yet another jealousy thread

The wealthy are stealing money from the poor (yes in many cases it should be labelled as actual theft), shipping jobs overseas after maxing out the debt on the people in this country thereby limiting the ability to repay. I don't think think you can call that jealousy.

People are being finacially farked and hard. I think alot of it has to do with the debt collection agencies and their relationship to the companies they represent. It's more money for all if it goes thru DC.

Who forced these people to buy things on credit and not repay it?


Hey look everybody!!   Nutsack_Jim has never had to borrow money and experience corporate wide cut backs at THE SAME TIME !!!

You really ARE special. You must be able to send you kids to school and pay for it all!!! I'm sure you bought you house and car WITH CASH.
 
2013-09-17 11:56:44 AM

Headso: Carousel Beast: doublesecretprobation: Neighborhood Watch: I've never understood why liberals are so obsessed with other peoples' money (and/or private property, in general).

because we're not willfully ignorant of history?

Really? How well has forced wealth redistribution worked since the Great October Socialist Revolution?

99.6% of "poor" people own a refrigerator, so it's working pretty good.


so, correct me if i'm wrong...you define poverty by appliance acquisition?
 
2013-09-17 11:57:09 AM

Nutsac_Jim: PunGent:

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth. Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.

See that bold part?  You failed right there.  Logical fallacy, indicative of suffering from the Just World delusion.

 People are paid exactly what they are worth.  If they don't like it, they can go work for a competitor who will easily see they are such a great value.


Slightly wrong.  People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept.  Worth is not an absolute.
 
2013-09-17 11:59:16 AM

stir22: Thunderpipes: stir22: revolutions don't start until the masses can't feed their families.  that's why the mega-rich and political parties make sure that the masses have just enough to live on.   dip below that, and it's game on.  they won't let that happen.

Who is "they? You do realize, almost all the liberal leaders pushing policy, are mega rich, right?

i do.  i refer to "they" as the uber-rich, policy makers, and fortune 500 ceo's....  i've started to think that they are all trolling us.  especially the pubs and dems.   that's it's all a charade, a facade.....they get together at the highest levels and decide who gets to be in power for awhile...and, that it doesn't really matter.

for the record, i do very well.   six figure income, steady job with benefits....etc.     i'm okay.   but the middle class, as we know it, is gone....and i feel for the millions who just want to do "a little better."   also,   i feel that the gap that is widening between the uber-rich and uber-poor is by design, and that it doesn't matter who is in power in Washington.

/just my opinion, ymmv


I feel your pain. I am much in the same boat as you. I started out lower middle class, and have done very well. I have a six figure income as well (and I don't mean a smidgen over 100k, either) and things that go with it. I, for the first time in my life, don't have to check my bank account before I spend money. I can have my bills paid automatically, I can eat out as much as I want, and drive a nice car.

People I grew up with almost universally are scraping by. People I am very close to are living in abject poverty, one or two weeks from being on the street. I've had life long friends ask me for money to buy food. Much more prevalent than that are people who cant afford to go to the doctor.

Jobs that used to pay a living wage just dont anymore. I know and love people who make 8.50 an hour and are supposed to make ends meet on that. Food, shelter, gas insurance, etc. Couple that with the courts propensity to suspend someones license for not paying certain bills, and we've created an entire underclass of people as well as an overclass. With a very very few like you and me in the middle.

Jobs used to pay enough to support people, now they dont, and "Job Creators" realize that the government will happily subsidize their slave wages with welfare and medicaid. What do Job Creators do? They do what they do. Pay the lowest wages they possibly can while maximizing profits for sharholders. Hell it would be illegal if they didn't.

This should not be permitted to occur.
 
2013-09-17 11:59:33 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Who forced these people to buy things on credit and not repay it?


The broken nature of our economic system.

Say you need a house. For most people, the breakdown is like so : Either waste hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years paying rent, which is bad, or take the very intelligent risk of taking a loan to purchase property, which is sadly, incredibly overpriced in our market precisely because investment capitalism paired with sort sighted greed via real estate speculation has driven housing prices very, very high. So the system has created artificial value, where the desire to flip property for profit overshadows the more common goal of simply needing a place to live. However, despite this, it's still a far more sensible plan than just dumping money into a rent hole, so people take the frankly intelligent risk. 

However, the boom and bust cycle of an economy, any economy is going to mean that some people, during down swings, are going to end up unemployed as businesses, seeing less business and profit, downsize. This is inevitable, and it's not someone's "fault." During these typically temporary periods of unemployment, people may default or fall behind on payments for these loans. We have, in the US, a host of rules and incentives to keep the lenders from overreacting and foreclosing on these people during these, as stated, typically temporary periods of misfortune. Unfortunately, again, short term, anti-social greed has generated a condition where many lenders are refusing to consider this, and they are happily trashing lives, the economy and whole neighborhoods simply to be self serving and greedy. Sometimes they do this legally, more and more lately not even that, but in neither case is it appropriate, being neither ethical nor practically desirable in the long run for our economy or society.

The system is broken and many towards the top of the economy wealth scale are abusing it horribly. It's inappropriate and, frankly, shiatty to keep trying to blame people abused and exploited by bad people employing a broken system to exploit need. If you can't envision and promote a better system than that then get out of social philosophy and politics and for god's sake, please don't vote.
 
2013-09-17 11:59:33 AM

Magnanimous_J: The rich get richer, that's the way of the world. But by concentrating on hating the wealthy for their wealth doesn't put another dollar in your pocket. You can tax them to oblivion if it makes you feel better, but it won't fix anything.


400 families get $2 trillion. Taxing that $2 trillion "into oblivion" would, in fact, fix a whole lot of shiat, and fast!  But no one is arguing that "oblivion" strawman point in the first place, so who farking cares?

Asking the richest of the rich to pay their fair share* in taxes is not an onerous demand. It is reasonable and fair. And it would be a decent step in the right direction.

*A legit topic of debate is the definition of 'fair share' in this context... but I wanted to clean up the broader conceptual misunderstanding first.
 
2013-09-17 12:00:18 PM

marsoft: People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept


And it better be a damn sight lower than your poor ass thinks it should be, cause there's a 1,000 serfs waiting in line to do it for less.
 
2013-09-17 12:01:28 PM
Instead of attacking trees maybe we should step back and get above the timber line where the whole forest is lain out before us below.

When you allow some to counterfeit the money supply, they add nothing to our pile of stuff, or in this case the forest. What it does do is allow them to shift the property line so more of the stuff is on their side of the line.
 
2013-09-17 12:02:11 PM

bunner: marsoft: People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept

And it better be a damn sight lower than your poor ass thinks it should be, cause there's a 1,000 serfs waiting in line to do it for less.


I already said basically that in the second part of my sentence.  So what was the point of your posting?
 
2013-09-17 12:02:48 PM

VendorXeno: However, the boom and bust cycle of an economy, any economy is going to mean that some people, during down swings, are going to end up unemployed as businesses, seeing less business and profit, downsize.


So, debt harvesting.  Let some sucker carry the 10 ton weight for the first 99 yards and when they are forced to put it down, you pick it up for pennies and prance over the goal line.
 
2013-09-17 12:03:03 PM

Madbassist1: stir22: Thunderpipes: stir22: revolutions don't start until the masses can't feed their families.  that's why the mega-rich and political parties make sure that the masses have just enough to live on.   dip below that, and it's game on.  they won't let that happen.

Who is "they? You do realize, almost all the liberal leaders pushing policy, are mega rich, right?

i do.  i refer to "they" as the uber-rich, policy makers, and fortune 500 ceo's....  i've started to think that they are all trolling us.  especially the pubs and dems.   that's it's all a charade, a facade.....they get together at the highest levels and decide who gets to be in power for awhile...and, that it doesn't really matter.

for the record, i do very well.   six figure income, steady job with benefits....etc.     i'm okay.   but the middle class, as we know it, is gone....and i feel for the millions who just want to do "a little better."   also,   i feel that the gap that is widening between the uber-rich and uber-poor is by design, and that it doesn't matter who is in power in Washington.

/just my opinion, ymmv

I feel your pain. I am much in the same boat as you. I started out lower middle class, and have done very well. I have a six figure income as well (and I don't mean a smidgen over 100k, either) and things that go with it. I, for the first time in my life, don't have to check my bank account before I spend money. I can have my bills paid automatically, I can eat out as much as I want, and drive a nice car.

People I grew up with almost universally are scraping by. People I am very close to are living in abject poverty, one or two weeks from being on the street. I've had life long friends ask me for money to buy food. Much more prevalent than that are people who cant afford to go to the doctor.

Jobs that used to pay a living wage just dont anymore. I know and love people who make 8.50 an hour and are supposed to make ends meet on that. Food, shelter, gas insurance, etc. Couple that with t ...


EXACTLY.  you are much more eloquent than am i.   well-said.
 
2013-09-17 12:03:10 PM

stir22: Headso: Carousel Beast: doublesecretprobation: Neighborhood Watch: I've never understood why liberals are so obsessed with other peoples' money (and/or private property, in general).

because we're not willfully ignorant of history?

Really? How well has forced wealth redistribution worked since the Great October Socialist Revolution?

99.6% of "poor" people own a refrigerator, so it's working pretty good.

so, correct me if i'm wrong...you define poverty by appliance acquisition?



I think he's being facetious, but that is an interesting point. How should we define wealth? I'm definitely middle class. Last night I bought a pretty decent steak from the grocery store for about 5 bucks. That equates to about 10 minutes of work (before taxes). My electricity costs about I hour of work per month. My student loan payment is about 3 hours of work per month. Given that these middle class essentials are NOT a financial burden, how is taxing the rich more going to help me out?
 
2013-09-17 12:03:28 PM

stir22: Headso: Carousel Beast: doublesecretprobation: Neighborhood Watch: I've never understood why liberals are so obsessed with other peoples' money (and/or private property, in general).

because we're not willfully ignorant of history?

Really? How well has forced wealth redistribution worked since the Great October Socialist Revolution?

99.6% of "poor" people own a refrigerator, so it's working pretty good.

so, correct me if i'm wrong...you define poverty by appliance acquisition?


it's a graphic from fox news, it's popular for the right wing to claim both that the war on poverty doesn't work while at the same time saying the poor in America are doing better than ever.
 
2013-09-17 12:03:44 PM

marsoft: bunner: marsoft: People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept

And it better be a damn sight lower than your poor ass thinks it should be, cause there's a 1,000 serfs waiting in line to do it for less.

I already said basically that in the second part of my sentence.  So what was the point of your posting?


Are you trying to tell me I interrupted you?  Jees, gov, I had no idea this was a lecture.  *snort*
 
2013-09-17 12:03:46 PM

Dinki: DrPainMD: A poor person isn't poorer because someone else is rich.

Actually, yes they are. If the rich guy gets his money by paying the poor guy a minimal amount when he could just as easily pay the poor guy more.


Actually, no they aren't, the poor guy is poor because not every job is valued at $30/hour and if you never learn the skills to hit that mark that's on you.
 
2013-09-17 12:04:18 PM

Jorn the Younger: DrPainMD: Is this the thread where everybody biatches about other people's money when they should be out earning money for themselves?

Is this the thread where conservatrolls show up to berate the poor for not having the good sense to be born wealthy, or attempt to maintain the fallacy that harder work turns into increased rewards?


Is this the thread where liberals blame republicans even though the wealth gain is a direct effect of quantative easing, a policy put in place under Obama?
 
2013-09-17 12:04:55 PM

DrPainMD: Is this the thread where everybody biatches about other people's money when they should be out earning money for themselves?


Yes, because it's just that easy to work yourself into the top 1%.

The other 99% are just lazy.
 
2013-09-17 12:04:55 PM

Strik3r: Nutsac_Jim: Strik3r: Joe Blowme: and yet another jealousy thread

The wealthy are stealing money from the poor (yes in many cases it should be labelled as actual theft), shipping jobs overseas after maxing out the debt on the people in this country thereby limiting the ability to repay. I don't think think you can call that jealousy.

People are being finacially farked and hard. I think alot of it has to do with the debt collection agencies and their relationship to the companies they represent. It's more money for all if it goes thru DC.

Who forced these people to buy things on credit and not repay it?

Hey look everybody!!   Nutsack_Jim has never had to borrow money and experience corporate wide cut backs at THE SAME TIME !!!

You really ARE special. You must be able to send you kids to school and pay for it all!!! I'm sure you bought you house and car WITH CASH.


Yes, I did.   Funny things happen when you save money.   It grows into a bigger pile.

Yes, I had cut backs.  Since I wasn't a douchebag with a leased car and furniture from Rent-A-Center, there was no problem paying bills until I just found another job after those cut backs.

Most of people's problems are their own damn fault.  Some are just better at crying than others.
 
2013-09-17 12:05:01 PM

Magnanimous_J: There is no reason that a private company should be able to virtually enslave a person over a 10 grand credit card. I don't care if the consumer DID sign the contract.


I presume this means you are also in favor of heavy regulation of private citizens.  You can't remove contractual obligation without stripping out consumer protection also.  Trying to pad personal responsibility because there are stupid people out there ends up shooting a lot of foots.
 
2013-09-17 12:05:19 PM

bunner: marsoft: bunner: marsoft: People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept

And it better be a damn sight lower than your poor ass thinks it should be, cause there's a 1,000 serfs waiting in line to do it for less.

I already said basically that in the second part of my sentence.  So what was the point of your posting?

Are you trying to tell me I interrupted you?  Jees, gov, I had no idea this was a lecture.  *snort*


No I am saying your posting was redundant and added nothing to what I said.
 
2013-09-17 12:05:21 PM

bunner: marsoft: People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept

And it better be a damn sight lower than your poor ass thinks it should be, cause there's a 1,000 serfs waiting in line to do it for less.


The economy is global now.  If you want to manufacture something you'd better be willing to make it cheaper than the guy in china can make it and ship it here.  You are in direct competition with millions, not thousands.
 
2013-09-17 12:07:43 PM

lostcat: DrPainMD: Is this the thread where everybody biatches about other people's money when they should be out earning money for themselves?

Yes, because it's just that easy to work yourself into the top 1%.

The other 99% are just lazy.


Hey libtard, if everyone worked hard and had good jobs then nobody would be poor, it's so simple!
 
2013-09-17 12:07:43 PM

marsoft: No I am saying your posting was redundant and added nothing to what I said.


And I'm trying to tell you that your pose of authority driven assessment is meaningless to me.  Wanna sammich?

www.pbs.org
 
2013-09-17 12:07:50 PM

sufferpuppet: bunner: marsoft: People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept

And it better be a damn sight lower than your poor ass thinks it should be, cause there's a 1,000 serfs waiting in line to do it for less.

The economy is global now.  If you want to manufacture something you'd better be willing to make it cheaper than the guy in china can make it and ship it here.  You are in direct competition with millions, not thousands.


Why does everyone go back to manufacturing in these arguments?  Manufacturing jobs have and will continue to decline as production increases.  Manufacturing as the basic job was a 20th century blip.
 
2013-09-17 12:08:01 PM

Magnanimous_J: stir22: Headso: Carousel Beast: doublesecretprobation: Neighborhood Watch: I've never understood why liberals are so obsessed with other peoples' money (and/or private property, in general).

because we're not willfully ignorant of history?

Really? How well has forced wealth redistribution worked since the Great October Socialist Revolution?

99.6% of "poor" people own a refrigerator, so it's working pretty good.

so, correct me if i'm wrong...you define poverty by appliance acquisition?


I think he's being facetious, but that is an interesting point. How should we define wealth? I'm definitely middle class. Last night I bought a pretty decent steak from the grocery store for about 5 bucks. That equates to about 10 minutes of work (before taxes). My electricity costs about I hour of work per month. My student loan payment is about 3 hours of work per month. Given that these middle class essentials are NOT a financial burden, how is taxing the rich more going to help me out?


not sure it is.    and, i don't know how we should define wealth.  but, the definition of poverty is pretty clear.


Headso: stir22: Headso: Carousel Beast: doublesecretprobation: Neighborhood Watch: I've never understood why liberals are so obsessed with other peoples' money (and/or private property, in general).

because we're not willfully ignorant of history?

Really? How well has forced wealth redistribution worked since the Great October Socialist Revolution?

99.6% of "poor" people own a refrigerator, so it's working pretty good.

so, correct me if i'm wrong...you define poverty by appliance acquisition?

it's a graphic from fox news, it's popular for the right wing to claim both that the war on poverty doesn't work while at the same time saying the poor in America are doing better than ever.


thanks.  for the record, i'm exactly the kind of person fox news caters to.   middle class, white, doing okay, etc.....and, i hate those farkers.
 
2013-09-17 12:08:58 PM

bunner: marsoft: No I am saying your posting was redundant and added nothing to what I said.

And I'm trying to tell you that your pose of authority driven assessment is meaningless to me.  Wanna sammich?

[www.pbs.org image 602x452]


Is there mayo on that?
 
2013-09-17 12:09:33 PM

marsoft: Nutsac_Jim: PunGent:

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth. Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.

See that bold part?  You failed right there.  Logical fallacy, indicative of suffering from the Just World delusion.

 People are paid exactly what they are worth.  If they don't like it, they can go work for a competitor who will easily see they are such a great value.

Slightly wrong.  People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept.  Worth is not an absolute.


What the hell does that mean.

If you take your comic book in to sell it, it is worth what someone will give you for it.  Its not worth some other value one wants.
If 100 other sellers are willing to accept 50$ for the same book, the book is worth 50$.

If everyone gets together and decides they wont sell it for less than 75, the book is worth 75.  It is absolutely worth 75.
 
2013-09-17 12:10:16 PM

untaken_name: Say, that *is* good news....for Obama.

/someone had to


But..but hes gonna fix everything, right?

Voters are morons.
 
2013-09-17 12:11:14 PM

Nutsac_Jim: marsoft: Nutsac_Jim: PunGent:

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth. Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.

See that bold part?  You failed right there.  Logical fallacy, indicative of suffering from the Just World delusion.

 People are paid exactly what they are worth.  If they don't like it, they can go work for a competitor who will easily see they are such a great value.

Slightly wrong.  People are paid what they will accept, influenced by what others will accept.  Worth is not an absolute.

What the hell does that mean.

If you take your comic book in to sell it, it is worth what someone will give you for it.  Its not worth some other value one wants.
If 100 other sellers are willing to accept 50$ for the same book, the book is worth 50$.

If everyone gets together and decides they wont sell it for less than 75, the book is worth 75.  It is absolutely worth 75.


Not if nobody will buy at 75.  Supply and demand.  It required agreement from both sides.
 
2013-09-17 12:11:24 PM

marsoft: Manufacturing as the basic job was a 20th century blip.


Sort of.  When you create wealth, you take something of a lower index value, resources, and create something of a higher index value, a product.  Moving paper and binary data around doesn't really create wealth.  It just plays three card monte with it.  When you make something that is greater than the sum of it's parts, you create wealth.  This is why wealthy people use bad debt in the form of bank notes to leverage wealth instead of putting putting them between bread.
 
2013-09-17 12:12:07 PM

marsoft: bunner: marsoft: No I am saying your posting was redundant and added nothing to what I said.

And I'm trying to tell you that your pose of authority driven assessment is meaningless to me.  Wanna sammich?

[www.pbs.org image 602x452]

Is there mayo on that?


Sorry, you'll have to bootstrap your own mayo.
 
2013-09-17 12:13:40 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Strik3r: Joe Blowme: and yet another jealousy thread

The wealthy are stealing money from the poor (yes in many cases it should be labelled as actual theft), shipping jobs overseas after maxing out the debt on the people in this country thereby limiting the ability to repay. I don't think think you can call that jealousy.

People are being finacially farked and hard. I think alot of it has to do with the debt collection agencies and their relationship to the companies they represent. It's more money for all if it goes thru DC.

Who forced these people to buy things on credit and not repay it?


Republicans, have you not been paying attention?
 
2013-09-17 12:14:05 PM

lordaction: dready zim: lordaction: Typical liberals wanting to steal money from the people that earned it.

You mean the workers? Not the business owners? The workers did all the work, it`s sort of how they are defined...

Do you think someone earned the money who wasn`t the person who did the work? How does that work?

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth.  Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.


Actually, the main feature of capitalism is that workers aren't paid the full value of their labor. The people at the top live off of the surplus value created when workers are not paid the full market value of the end good/service they produce. Exploitation is a feature of capitalism, not a bug.
 
2013-09-17 12:14:55 PM

bunner: marsoft: Manufacturing as the basic job was a 20th century blip.

Sort of.  When you create wealth, you take something of a lower index value, resources, and create something of a higher index value, a product.  Moving paper and binary data around doesn't really create wealth.  It just plays three card monte with it.  When you make something that is greater than the sum of it's parts, you create wealth.  This is why wealthy people use bad debt in the form of bank notes to leverage wealth instead of putting putting them between bread.


Yes, but not all processes that create something are manufacturing.  Art is not manufacturing, Cinema is not manufacturing, porn is not manufacturing.  Software engineering is not manufacturing.  Yet all are examples of industries that create a product.
 
2013-09-17 12:15:53 PM

Headso: bunner: BullBearMS: /Both sides are owned by the same people
//So stop voting for them

[assets.sbnation.com image 300x300]

This is all well and good in theory but in practice you "throw your vote away" and republicans get in and do a smash and grab on the government for the entirety of their term. There's a reason on of their main policy positions is disenfranchisement.


Which is another way of saying that you don't mind if the richest Americans buy off both parties and are allowed to pay a lower percentage in taxes than the working poor.

You just care about which of the two parties who enable it are nominally in charge.

Frankly, you just ensure that we never fix the problem.
 
2013-09-17 12:16:51 PM

VendorXeno: Say you need a house. For most people, the breakdown is like so : Either waste hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years paying rent, which is bad, or take the very intelligent risk of taking a loan to purchase property, which is sadly, incredibly overpriced in our market precisely because investment capitalism paired with sort sighted greed via real estate speculation has driven housing prices very, very high. So the system has created artificial value, where the desire to flip property for profit overshadows the more common goal of simply needing a place to live. However, despite this, it's still a far more sensible plan than just dumping money into a rent hole, so people take the frankly intelligent risk. 

However, the boom and bust cycle of an economy, any economy is going to mean that some people, during down swings, are going to end up unemployed as businesses, seeing less business and profit, downsize. This is inevitable, and it's not someone's "fault." During these typically temporary periods of unemployment, people may default or fall behind on payments for these loans.


So.. what you are saying is that it might actually make more sense to rent.  That way, when the company lays everyone off, you are not stuck with a huge albatross of a mortgage payment.  You can also move to where the jobs are now located, instead of being anchored down with your new property.  Oh, and when the AC breaks, you just call the landlord, instead of getting a home depot credit card to put the new 8500 AC unit on it.   (assuming the AC breaks right after you get shiattcanned, so HomeDepot doesnt know yet)

'Rent is throwing money away' is the cause of many peoples problems.
 
2013-09-17 12:17:25 PM
Damn you, George W. Bush!

oh wait.
 
2013-09-17 12:20:44 PM
[crawls into bunner's lap, shivering]
 
2013-09-17 12:21:03 PM

Mr_Fabulous: Magnanimous_J: The rich get richer, that's the way of the world. But by concentrating on hating the wealthy for their wealth doesn't put another dollar in your pocket. You can tax them to oblivion if it makes you feel better, but it won't fix anything.

400 families get $2 trillion. Taxing that $2 trillion "into oblivion" would, in fact, fix a whole lot of shiat, and fast!  But no one is arguing that "oblivion" strawman point in the first place, so who farking cares?


What are you going to do for money in year two of your glorious tax plan?
 
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