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(WTOP)   Good news, everybody. The mega-rich's net worth increased from $1.7 trillion to $2 trillion last year, which means there's gonna be a lot more cash money trickling down to the rest of us very soon   (wtop.com) divider line 469
    More: Cool, rises, T. Boone Pickens, Microsoft Corp., Dustin Moskovitz, Hyatt Hotel, Larry Ellison  
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2426 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2013 at 7:52 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-17 10:09:21 AM

Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: There you go. Who expects to make millions (per year) as a cubicle drone? You're going with the tried and true Bootstraps argument. All poor people, every single one of them, is poor, because they just aren't trying hard enough, right?

And then there is you on the other side of the argument, all rich people did not earn it but instead robbed poor people to get rich.

/both are stupid

Which is not even remotely my argument as stated just below my post that you quoted, but you decided to cut it out.  Keep on trollin Joe.


If that is not what you are saying then why the hate for those who have more than you?
 
2013-09-17 10:10:10 AM

Carn: Ricardo Klement: Carn: Raise the minimum wage and peg it to CPI, inflation, or some other sensible metric.

That's a really bad idea. As wage indexation goes up, monetary policy is less and less capable of doing anything.

Let λ denote the proportion of wages indexed. If λ is positive,

Then πt-πt-1 =-(α/(1-λ))(ut-un)

As λ -> 1, and all contracts are indexed, ut=un at all times and monetary policy does nothing at all.

So the more contracts you index, the more inflation starts accelerating.

Well it would be a really bad idea to do this AND to have a large lambda.  If a small percentage of people were earning the minimum wage, this wouldn't be a problem for monetary policy.


The only time people really start to talk about a minimum wage is when a large percentage of people are in that bracket.
 
2013-09-17 10:13:43 AM

Carn: Ricardo Klement: Carn: Raise the minimum wage and peg it to CPI, inflation, or some other sensible metric.

That's a really bad idea. As wage indexation goes up, monetary policy is less and less capable of doing anything.

Let λ denote the proportion of wages indexed. If λ is positive,

Then πt-πt-1 =-(α/(1-λ))(ut-un)

As λ -> 1, and all contracts are indexed, ut=un at all times and monetary policy does nothing at all.

So the more contracts you index, the more inflation starts accelerating.

Well it would be a really bad idea to do this AND to have a large lambda.  If a small percentage of people were earning the minimum wage, this wouldn't be a problem for monetary policy.


We already have some lambdas that are built-in, and some that are not automatic but are effectively: COLA for government workers, for example, and some union contracts (those change frequently, though). Just the lambda difference between us and the EU had a substantial effect on inflation.

That having been said, I'm not against raising the current minimum wage, though not for economic reasons.
 
2013-09-17 10:14:57 AM

marsoft: Carn: Ricardo Klement: Carn: Raise the minimum wage and peg it to CPI, inflation, or some other sensible metric.

That's a really bad idea. As wage indexation goes up, monetary policy is less and less capable of doing anything.

Let λ denote the proportion of wages indexed. If λ is positive,

Then πt-πt-1 =-(α/(1-λ))(ut-un)

As λ -> 1, and all contracts are indexed, ut=un at all times and monetary policy does nothing at all.

So the more contracts you index, the more inflation starts accelerating.

Well it would be a really bad idea to do this AND to have a large lambda.  If a small percentage of people were earning the minimum wage, this wouldn't be a problem for monetary policy.

The only time people really start to talk about a minimum wage is when a large percentage of people are in that bracket.


A saving grace is that contracts tend to get pegged to inflation a lot more when inflation is high. Luckily, inflation has been minuscule, so our lambda hasn't been very large.
 
2013-09-17 10:16:27 AM
A few questions to redirect this thread as people are sounding angry and defensive on both sides:
1. What percentage of Americans are earning minimum wage?
2. What percentage of those are working at least 40 hours a week?
3. Do they have the basics?  Food security, heat, shelter?

If it is a large percentage covered by 1 and 2, and 3 is no, then there is a big problem.  How it can be addressed is another issue.
 
2013-09-17 10:16:59 AM
Not unless we raise inflation to 5-8%. The problem right now is that firms and individuals are sitting on mountains, oceans, a veritable dragon's hoard of cash, because with inflation this low the opportunity cost of holding cash is less than the opportunity cost of spending it on capital or land.
 
2013-09-17 10:20:42 AM

Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: There you go. Who expects to make millions (per year) as a cubicle drone? You're going with the tried and true Bootstraps argument. All poor people, every single one of them, is poor, because they just aren't trying hard enough, right?

And then there is you on the other side of the argument, all rich people did not earn it but instead robbed poor people to get rich.

/both are stupid

Which is not even remotely my argument as stated just below my post that you quoted, but you decided to cut it out.  Keep on trollin Joe.

If that is not what you are saying then why the hate for those who have more than you?



I think he's saying the same thing Dusk-You-n-Me was saying, you simply can't run an economy that relies on consumerism when all the wealth is being concentrated in the hands of few people. There's no hate in that, it's just the way it works.
 
2013-09-17 10:22:04 AM

Slaves2Darkness: Not unless we raise inflation to 5-8%. The problem right now is that firms and individuals are sitting on mountains, oceans, a veritable dragon's hoard of cash, because with inflation this low the opportunity cost of holding cash is less than the opportunity cost of spending it on capital or land.


No.

They're not stuffing that money into mattresses.
 
2013-09-17 10:24:26 AM

Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: There you go. Who expects to make millions (per year) as a cubicle drone? You're going with the tried and true Bootstraps argument. All poor people, every single one of them, is poor, because they just aren't trying hard enough, right?

And then there is you on the other side of the argument, all rich people did not earn it but instead robbed poor people to get rich.

/both are stupid

Which is not even remotely my argument as stated just below my post that you quoted, but you decided to cut it out.  Keep on trollin Joe.

If that is not what you are saying then why the hate for those who have more than you?


When did I say anything about hate?  I've said it a few times already, my stance is pragmatic.  Current conditions are historically bad both for the country at large and the individuals holding the vast quantities of wealth.  We should take steps that will narrow the gap in the future both in the form of reinstating higher taxes on the wealthy (rates that have been much higher than they are currently for close to 100 years) and in the form of pushing economic growth for the bottom and middle and the easiest, most obvious, and currently very necessary way to do that is to start a huge Infrastructure development program.
 
2013-09-17 10:26:42 AM

Ricardo Klement: Slaves2Darkness: Not unless we raise inflation to 5-8%. The problem right now is that firms and individuals are sitting on mountains, oceans, a veritable dragon's hoard of cash, because with inflation this low the opportunity cost of holding cash is less than the opportunity cost of spending it on capital or land.

No.

They're not stuffing that money into mattresses.


it's being invested out of the country in emerging markets, the middle class subsidizes their profits and they take those profits and invest them in developing markets and tax shelters.
 
2013-09-17 10:27:34 AM

lordaction: dready zim: lordaction: Typical liberals wanting to steal money from the people that earned it.

You mean the workers? Not the business owners? The workers did all the work, it`s sort of how they are defined...

Do you think someone earned the money who wasn`t the person who did the work? How does that work?

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth.  Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.



Let me explain to you what is currently happening in our world. This graph is a handy demonstration:

dissidentvoice.org

You will note that as our manufacturing output increases, the number of manufacturing jobs falls. Human beings are being replaced by machines. This is just manufacturing; the service sector is now making inroads in automating their jobs too. The population of the planet is increasing exponentially as well.

So, let's go back to economics class. The law of supply and demand, specifically.

When supply of an object goes up, the price goes down.
When demand of an object goes down, the price goes down.

These rules are universal and irrefutable.

So what happens when we start to introduce machines to replace human labour? The demand for human labor drops, and so does wages. What happens when the population continues to grow exponentially? The supply of human labor goes up, causing wages to further collapse.

We're nearing the point in human history where the supply of labour will be so high and the demand for labour will be so low that the effective market price of that labour will be Zero.

What in the actual fark do you think is going to happen when that happens?


I'm not a socialist because I want to steal your money. Chances are, I make more than you. I'm a socialist because I have a brain and understand what is happening in the world today.
 
2013-09-17 10:31:04 AM

Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: There you go. Who expects to make millions (per year) as a cubicle drone? You're going with the tried and true Bootstraps argument. All poor people, every single one of them, is poor, because they just aren't trying hard enough, right?

And then there is you on the other side of the argument, all rich people did not earn it but instead robbed poor people to get rich.

/both are stupid

Which is not even remotely my argument as stated just below my post that you quoted, but you decided to cut it out.  Keep on trollin Joe.

If that is not what you are saying then why the hate for those who have more than you?

When did I say anything about hate?  I've said it a few times already, my stance is pragmatic.  Current conditions are historically bad both for the country at large and the individuals holding the vast quantities of wealth.  We should take steps that will narrow the gap in the future both in the form of reinstating higher taxes on the wealthy (rates that have been much higher than they are currently for close to 100 years) and in the form of pushing economic growth for the bottom and middle and the easiest, most obvious, and currently very necessary way to do that is to start a huge Infrastructure development program.


Part of the problem is that any system that allows merit to be rewarded and allows some proportion of wealth to be reinvested and some proportion passed-on to future generations is a system wherein wealth converges. Free Market systems will certainly have wealth convergence be a marked feature.
 
2013-09-17 10:35:31 AM

untaken_name: give me doughnuts: netcentric: Democrats are hoping angry taxpayers will blame the rich for having to send money to Washington

Class envy.

Despite record tax revenues, the federal government still racked up $755 billion deficit in the first eleven months of fiscal 2013

I think I know why there are issues for the middle class today.   And it isn't because of a few wealthy individuals.

You have to work 107 days in America,  just to pay your tax bill.

Maybe a large bloated Government is the problem.

And yet we have one of the lowest individual and corporate tax burdens in the developed world.
So maybe the problem isn't bloated government.

Because spending 1.30 times what you take in is not a problem? Leaving a debt so large it will consume your descendants isn't a problem? Geez, what do you consider to be a problem?


How about *what* the miserable assholes we send to represent us *do* with that money? You know, cheap things like starting wars, prosecuting pot smokers, handing out farm subsidies and bales of money to corporations who are already rich?

No, you're absolutely right! We are in the place we are because of greedy middle-class taxpayers! Those bastards in Iowa insist on p*ssing off middle-easterners so much that they keep trying to kill us, so we gotta go get 'em - amirite?

\go ahead, keep parroting those talking points
\\they must be telling you all the truth - none of those radio guys profit from stirring your ass up
 
2013-09-17 10:36:39 AM

MithrandirBooga: lordaction: dready zim: lordaction: Typical liberals wanting to steal money from the people that earned it.

You mean the workers? Not the business owners? The workers did all the work, it`s sort of how they are defined...

Do you think someone earned the money who wasn`t the person who did the work? How does that work?

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth.  Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.


Let me explain to you what is currently happening in our world. This graph is a handy demonstration:

[dissidentvoice.org image 585x412]

You will note that as our manufacturing output increases, the number of manufacturing jobs falls. Human beings are being replaced by machines. This is just manufacturing; the service sector is now making inroads in automating their jobs too. The population of the planet is increasing exponentially as well.

So, let's go back to economics class. The law of supply and demand, specifically.

When supply of an object goes up, the price goes down.
When demand of an object goes down, the price goes down.

These rules are universal and irrefutable.

So what happens when we start to introduce machines to replace human labour? The demand for human labor drops, and so does wages. What happens when the population continues to grow exponentially? The supply of human labor goes up, causing wages to further collapse.

We're nearing the point in human history where the supply of labour will be so high and the demand for labour will be so low that the effective market price of that labour will be Zero.

What in the actual fark do you think is going to happen when that happens?


I'm not a socialist because I want to steal your money. Chances are, I make more than you. I'm a socialist because I have a brain and understand what is happening in the world today.


Despite this, unemployment has not seen a similar trend.

The doomsaying has been going on for more than a century. Heck - Marx thought automation was going to facilitate revolution. 150 years later, and we're still quite able to have a capitalist system and relatively high employment.

I am unimpressed.
 
2013-09-17 10:36:57 AM

doubled99: Man I hate people who have achieved far more than me. Fark them, man.


I'm not upset that they're so successful, or even that they're using that success to push undue influence. It's that they use that influence to further cement themselves in their position at the expense of everyone else. With the exception of people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, it seems like today's super-rich have no sense of noblesse oblige.
 
2013-09-17 10:37:14 AM

lordaction: dready zim: lordaction: Typical liberals wanting to steal money from the people that earned it.

You mean the workers? Not the business owners? The workers did all the work, it`s sort of how they are defined...

Do you think someone earned the money who wasn`t the person who did the work? How does that work?

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth.  Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.


When companies do not pay enough to live on without getting government assistance, then it is the corporations who are stealing from taxpayers, not the employees. You are a very reliable troll, and I have no doubt you already know this, asshole.
 
2013-09-17 10:37:32 AM

MithrandirBooga: We're nearing the point in human history where the supply of labour will be so high and the demand for labour will be so low that the effective market price of that labour will be Zero.

What in the actual fark do you think is going to happen when that happens?


The rich people will finally release one of those doomsday flu strains?
 
2013-09-17 10:38:17 AM
Take any given time in recorded history.  At least 80% of everything (and I do mean at least) has been owned by 20% (usually much less) of the population.

Even in communist economies there were/are those more equal than others.

That said a civilisation can be judged on how it treats it's poor, elderly, and ill.

After taking many strides forward on that front, we are now slipping slowly backwards.
 
2013-09-17 10:38:23 AM

forcebender: For what it's worth, if you liquidated all that cash and redistributed to the entire US population (350M) that would be a payment of $142 a year for the next 40 years (in 2013 dollars.)  Or a single payment of $5714 ... to EVERY person in the US.


At which point we'd spend it and they'd get it all back.
 
2013-09-17 10:39:13 AM

Ricardo Klement: Carn: Raise the minimum wage and peg it to CPI, inflation, or some other sensible metric.

That's a really bad idea. As wage indexation goes up, monetary policy is less and less capable of doing anything.

Let λ denote the proportion of wages indexed. If λ is positive,

Then πt-πt-1 =-(α/(1-λ))(ut-un)

As λ -> 1, and all contracts are indexed, ut=un at all times and monetary policy does nothing at all.

So the more contracts you index, the more inflation starts accelerating.


Yeah? Well fark you!

/I keed
 
Ant
2013-09-17 10:39:53 AM

DrPainMD: Is this the thread where everybody biatches about other people's money when they should be out earning money for themselves?


No, this is the thread where people act like there's nothing wrong with the fact that the wealthy 1% own the vast majority of everything.
 
2013-09-17 10:40:01 AM
The only solution is the invention of replicators.

/and free bacon, got to have bacon
 
2013-09-17 10:41:22 AM

Ricardo Klement: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: Joe Blowme: Carn: There you go. Who expects to make millions (per year) as a cubicle drone? You're going with the tried and true Bootstraps argument. All poor people, every single one of them, is poor, because they just aren't trying hard enough, right?

And then there is you on the other side of the argument, all rich people did not earn it but instead robbed poor people to get rich.

/both are stupid

Which is not even remotely my argument as stated just below my post that you quoted, but you decided to cut it out.  Keep on trollin Joe.

If that is not what you are saying then why the hate for those who have more than you?

When did I say anything about hate?  I've said it a few times already, my stance is pragmatic.  Current conditions are historically bad both for the country at large and the individuals holding the vast quantities of wealth.  We should take steps that will narrow the gap in the future both in the form of reinstating higher taxes on the wealthy (rates that have been much higher than they are currently for close to 100 years) and in the form of pushing economic growth for the bottom and middle and the easiest, most obvious, and currently very necessary way to do that is to start a huge Infrastructure development program.

Part of the problem is that any system that allows merit to be rewarded and allows some proportion of wealth to be reinvested and some proportion passed-on to future generations is a system wherein wealth converges. Free Market systems will certainly have wealth convergence be a marked feature.


I agree and I am totally ok with this.  The problem is that currently there is too much convergence on too few people.  We need to tilt things back a little bit in the other direction.
 
Ant
2013-09-17 10:41:38 AM

HotWingConspiracy: DrPainMD: Is this the thread where everybody biatches about other people's money when they should be out earning money for themselves?

Yeah massive wealth inequality exists because people are lazy!


This.

Get a job, peasant!
 
2013-09-17 10:42:14 AM

Joe Blowme: dready zim: Joe Blowme: dready zim: Lady J: Carn: Lady J: regardless of libs vs cons; whatever (all boring)

what's to be done? you can't march into people's houses and take wealth

No, but reasonable actions can be taken to attempt to lower the gap in future earnings while at the same time adding funds to our still unbalanced budget.

Add a couple more higher tax brackets and raise income taxes on the wealthy.
Count capital gains as income over 100K and tax at same rate.
Get rid of the ceiling on earnings for paying social security.
Make sure estate taxes stay around or are reinstated.
Add a very small trading tax on the major US stock markets (.03%) to dampen high frequency trading and gambling for short term profit.  If you want to gamble trade commodities.
Reinstate Glass Steagal or a new version.  Don't let banks be in the mortgage business and trading business.
Raise the minimum wage and peg it to CPI, inflation, or some other sensible metric.
Create a new Federal works program with the goal to rebuild every single defunct federal road, bridge, dam, or other in America.  This will take decades.  If you grow the bottom and middle, the vast wealth at the top becomes less dangerous to the economy.

see, this is what I meant. you get a 'smart!' click

Also, DO put a hard limit on individual wealth gain. Peg it to the minimum wage to give them an incentive to increase that...

fark your american dream that lets a few people ruin the world for the rest of us.

Yes, by all means lets punnish success and see how that works

Success built on the hard work of others deserves punishment. It would work better if we rewarded hard work, not your ability to screw over others.

How you get your success matters. A lot.

But it is ok to just take it from those whom you feel didnt "earn it" properly?  If they break the law aquiring it, im with you. If they did not, i can not.


Then all you have to do is purchase your own laws. Or the guys that make them. If you had some cash, that might be possible.

denver.mylittlefacewhen.com
 
Ant
2013-09-17 10:45:56 AM

OnlyM3: Under President George W. Bush (Jan. 2007), black unemployment was 7.9%{1}.
Under Obama it has risen to 13.4% (Oct. 2012).


Wow! It's almost as if something happened in late 2008 to fark over millions of people.
 
2013-09-17 10:47:37 AM

CheapEngineer: Joe Blowme: dready zim: Joe Blowme: dready zim: Lady J: Carn: Lady J: regardless of libs vs cons; whatever (all boring)

what's to be done? you can't march into people's houses and take wealth

No, but reasonable actions can be taken to attempt to lower the gap in future earnings while at the same time adding funds to our still unbalanced budget.

Add a couple more higher tax brackets and raise income taxes on the wealthy.
Count capital gains as income over 100K and tax at same rate.
Get rid of the ceiling on earnings for paying social security.
Make sure estate taxes stay around or are reinstated.
Add a very small trading tax on the major US stock markets (.03%) to dampen high frequency trading and gambling for short term profit.  If you want to gamble trade commodities.
Reinstate Glass Steagal or a new version.  Don't let banks be in the mortgage business and trading business.
Raise the minimum wage and peg it to CPI, inflation, or some other sensible metric.
Create a new Federal works program with the goal to rebuild every single defunct federal road, bridge, dam, or other in America.  This will take decades.  If you grow the bottom and middle, the vast wealth at the top becomes less dangerous to the economy.

see, this is what I meant. you get a 'smart!' click

Also, DO put a hard limit on individual wealth gain. Peg it to the minimum wage to give them an incentive to increase that...

fark your american dream that lets a few people ruin the world for the rest of us.

Yes, by all means lets punnish success and see how that works

Success built on the hard work of others deserves punishment. It would work better if we rewarded hard work, not your ability to screw over others.

How you get your success matters. A lot.

But it is ok to just take it from those whom you feel didnt "earn it" properly?  If they break the law aquiring it, im with you. If they did not, i can not.

Then all you have to do is purchase your own laws. Or the guys that make them. If you had ...


So its the politicians who are at fault, vote for people who will do the right thing.... if you can find them. If not, sounds like you are running for office
 
2013-09-17 10:48:10 AM

Ant: HotWingConspiracy: DrPainMD: Is this the thread where everybody biatches about other people's money when they should be out earning money for themselves?

Yeah massive wealth inequality exists because people are lazy!

This.

Get a job, peasant!


and when you get a job, don't complain that it isn't enough to live on! Cancel your cell phone! Drive a 20 year old car! Take the bus! Don't you dare use food stamps.
 
2013-09-17 10:48:22 AM

Ant: OnlyM3: Under President George W. Bush (Jan. 2007), black unemployment was 7.9%{1}.
Under Obama it has risen to 13.4% (Oct. 2012).

Wow! It's almost as if something happened in late 2008 to fark over millions of people.


election of Obama?
 
2013-09-17 10:51:16 AM

Joe Blowme: Ant: OnlyM3: Under President George W. Bush (Jan. 2007), black unemployment was 7.9%{1}.
Under Obama it has risen to 13.4% (Oct. 2012).

Wow! It's almost as if something happened in late 2008 to fark over millions of people.

election of Obama Financial Crisis?

 
2013-09-17 10:52:19 AM

Joe Blowme: The only solution is the invention of replicators.


get a load of this commie wanting to redistribute molecules, get a job hippy
 
2013-09-17 10:53:28 AM

Madbassist1: Joe Blowme: Ant: OnlyM3: Under President George W. Bush (Jan. 2007), black unemployment was 7.9%{1}.
Under Obama it has risen to 13.4% (Oct. 2012).

Wow! It's almost as if something happened in late 2008 to fark over millions of people.

election of Obama Financial Crisis?


The 2 combined created the perfect storm DUN DUN DUUUUUN1
crimsonaudio.net
 
2013-09-17 10:55:33 AM

Headso: Joe Blowme: The only solution is the invention of replicators.

get a load of this commie wanting to redistribute molecules, get a job hippy


MOLECULAR JUSTICE!!!
 
2013-09-17 11:00:54 AM

maddogdelta: Lady J: regardless of libs vs cons; whatever (all boring)

what's to be done? you can't march into people's houses and take wealth

It happens all the time. It's called "Illegal Forclosure" and banks have gotten richer, and nobody goes to jail for it. EVERYONE WINS!

Except for the poor people who lost their house, but who gives a flying fark about them anyway?


Poverty is a crime, citizen.
 
2013-09-17 11:06:49 AM
Man I hate people who have achieved far more than me  have rigged the system so that only a select few EVER had a chance. Fark them, man.

FTFM



Maybe in the next life you'll be smarter and do this yourself.
 
2013-09-17 11:07:03 AM

lordaction: dready zim: lordaction: Typical liberals wanting to steal money from the people that earned it.

You mean the workers? Not the business owners? The workers did all the work, it`s sort of how they are defined...

Do you think someone earned the money who wasn`t the person who did the work? How does that work?

The workers get a paycheck, don't they?  They are paid what they are worth. Your communist dogma is nothing more then a weak rationalization to steal - says a lot about your character.  I'm guessing you must be an atheist.


See that bold part?  You failed right there.  Logical fallacy, indicative of suffering from the Just World delusion.

Your irrelevant prod at atheism at the end there tends to confirm the diagnosis.
 
2013-09-17 11:09:36 AM
The harder you work the less your money is worth, the harder you get other people to work for you the more you profit.
 
2013-09-17 11:11:21 AM

doubled99: Man I hate people who have achieved far more than me  have rigged the system so that only a select few EVER had a chance. Fark them, man.

FTFM


Maybe in the next life you'll be smarter and do this yourself.


Indeed, we need more people on board with tax law, a minimum wage, and social services that benefits the middle class and not the super wealthy.
 
2013-09-17 11:12:19 AM

doubled99: Man I hate people who have achieved far more than me  have rigged the system so that only a select few EVER had a chance. Fark them, man.

FTFM


Maybe in the next life you'll be smarter and do this yourself.


Pehaps, if I happen to be born early enough to get in on the action............................
 
2013-09-17 11:13:51 AM

netcentric: Democrats are hoping angry taxpayers will blame the rich for having to send money to Washington

Class envy.

Despite record tax revenues, the federal government still racked up $755 billion deficit in the first eleven months of fiscal 2013

I think I know why there are issues for the middle class today.   And it isn't because of a few wealthy individuals.

You have to work 107 days in America,  just to pay your tax bill.

Maybe a large bloated Government is the problem.


You and I might have to work 107 days to pay our tax bill, but people who actually have money don't pay much in taxes.  Maybe the bloated government isn't the problem, maybe it's the top 1% avoiding their fair share of taxes.
 
2013-09-17 11:14:42 AM
Cash Money!  Lawd!  This is a Cash Money thread!  Woo woo!
 
2013-09-17 11:16:54 AM
revolutions don't start until the masses can't feed their families.  that's why the mega-rich and political parties make sure that the masses have just enough to live on.   dip below that, and it's game on.  they won't let that happen.
 
2013-09-17 11:21:29 AM

stir22: revolutions don't start until the masses can't feed their families.  that's why the mega-rich and political parties make sure that the masses have just enough to live on.   dip below that, and it's game on.  they won't let that happen.


Who is "they? You do realize, almost all the liberal leaders pushing policy, are mega rich, right?
 
2013-09-17 11:22:05 AM

Telos: netcentric: Democrats are hoping angry taxpayers will blame the rich for having to send money to Washington

Class envy.

Despite record tax revenues, the federal government still racked up $755 billion deficit in the first eleven months of fiscal 2013

I think I know why there are issues for the middle class today.   And it isn't because of a few wealthy individuals.

You have to work 107 days in America,  just to pay your tax bill.

Maybe a large bloated Government is the problem.

You and I might have to work 107 days to pay our tax bill, but people who actually have money don't pay much in taxes.  Maybe the bloated government isn't the problem, maybe it's the top 1% avoiding their fair share of taxes.


Might want to actually look at some numbers to see how stupidly wrong you are.
 
2013-09-17 11:26:43 AM

Jorn the Younger: DrPainMD: Is this the thread where everybody biatches about other people's money when they should be out earning money for themselves?

Is this the thread where conservatrolls show up to berate the poor for not having the good sense to be born wealthy, or attempt to maintain the fallacy that harder work turns into increased rewards?


Well, we have Barry now.   Less work is turned into increased rewards.   Next up.. minimum wage of 25$.  Everyone should be able to afford a small house.  Enjoy your (5)Buck Double!
 
2013-09-17 11:28:30 AM
There isn't a lot of left-wing sentiment in this thread that is untrue, per se. But it's self-defeating. The rich get richer, that's the way of the world. But by concentrating on hating the wealthy for their wealth doesn't put another dollar in your pocket. You can tax them to oblivion if it makes you feel better, but it won't fix anything. The government is like one of those shady charities that doesn't mention that 90% of their income goes to administrative costs. Your 50 dollar donation bought little Motumbo a toothbrush and a pack of bandaids.

Everyone always concentrates on taxes, but we need to concentrate on destroying the ways that the wealthy can use the government to screw us. Rich people without power can only get richer if they sell us something we want. Rich people WITH power can get richer by legislating that we buy from them. The way back to prosperity is to level the playing field. Heavily regulating the financial industry is a good way to start. There is no reason that a private company should be able to virtually enslave a person over a 10 grand credit card. I don't care if the consumer DID sign the contract. There is a reason you can't bet your internal organs in Vegas casinos either. Removing oppressive permitting for small business is another good way.

But even if we do level the playing field, all that buys is an opportunity.
 
2013-09-17 11:28:42 AM

Strik3r: Joe Blowme: and yet another jealousy thread

The wealthy are stealing money from the poor (yes in many cases it should be labelled as actual theft), shipping jobs overseas after maxing out the debt on the people in this country thereby limiting the ability to repay. I don't think think you can call that jealousy.

People are being finacially farked and hard. I think alot of it has to do with the debt collection agencies and their relationship to the companies they represent. It's more money for all if it goes thru DC.


Who forced these people to buy things on credit and not repay it?
 
2013-09-17 11:28:44 AM

Thunderpipes: Telos: netcentric: Democrats are hoping angry taxpayers will blame the rich for having to send money to Washington

Class envy.

Despite record tax revenues, the federal government still racked up $755 billion deficit in the first eleven months of fiscal 2013

I think I know why there are issues for the middle class today.   And it isn't because of a few wealthy individuals.

You have to work 107 days in America,  just to pay your tax bill.

Maybe a large bloated Government is the problem.

You and I might have to work 107 days to pay our tax bill, but people who actually have money don't pay much in taxes.  Maybe the bloated government isn't the problem, maybe it's the top 1% avoiding their fair share of taxes.

Might want to actually look at some numbers to see how stupidly wrong you are.


Yeah, based on 262 working days in a year you have to work 104.8 days to pay your income tax. 107 days is a stupid exaggeration.
 
2013-09-17 11:32:24 AM

Magnanimous_J: You can tax them to oblivion if it makes you feel better, but it won't fix anything. The government is like one of those shady charities that doesn't mention that 90% of their income goes to administrative costs. Your 50 dollar donation bought little Motumbo a toothbrush and a pack of bandaids.


Even if that's true it still means the money finds it's way into the hands of a bunch of middle class government bureaucrats and is less concentrated.
 
2013-09-17 11:33:30 AM
Good news everyone, the fed govt took in record high tax receipts last year including An extra $116 Billion from personal income tax. But the gov still over spent by $750billion, you can't trust them fools with nothing.

Anyone here notice that $750 billion in freedom we bought? Me neither...:(
 
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